hormone treatment and lack of energy

Any advice regarding complete lack of energy would be most gratefully received , I have been on monthly injections of Degrelix for just over 2 years and in April I was put on a daily tablet of casodex and I have to say at times I am completely worn out and I am in and out of the toilet so much having to rush to get there in time best regards Dave .

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  • There are lots of research that recommends the wonder drug "exercise" to combat fatigue and many things as well.

  • I like that I,m off to the chemist to get a bottle, but on a serious note I am not one to lay about all day but I am not only on hormone drugs I have also got AF as an added bonus which puts me on beta blockers which guess what makes you tired thanks for the reply I guess it,s just a best to get on with it and dont moan regards

  • I'm not one to tell anyone what to do any longer. I used to!! But, if you can keep active and moving, it is key medicine. What do you like doing and what did you like to do when you were a kid??

    Lately, I'm hearing about how virtual reality is going to be used in our medicine. It already is. If you even imagine yourself exercising, it will have an impact. Read about it.

  • There are natural healing supplemental programs that can get you off beta blockers. I had A-Fib---for about 7 years--and 4 years ago I went on my program--and left the blood thinners and beta blockers in the dust--have not had one incident---cardiologist--just says--hey if it works good---he really does not want to know what I am doing---and refuses to stress test me--as he says he cannot reach the same level of stress I place upon my body in the gym.

    If interested send me your e-mail thru the site here---and I will be glad to address the program---others are on it on this site and another site. All show good substitution results. I am not a Doctor---but have 45 years in Diet and Nutrition and Natural Healing experience.

    Nalakrats

  • I have A-Fib too but I am on Multaq for it. What is the program you went on?

  • I am on a program, that relaxes the arteries, which decreases BP, and completes the circuit in the heart, preventing the racing up of the heart that is typical for A-fib. First I am not a Doctor. But what I am about to say has worked for dozens of men that were introduced to what I do. And there are over 200 research papers that can be read on the subjects below.

    I use to make 4-5 visits a year to the ER and have had to use Lopressor/Metoprolol when having an attack. If you have or have not had a heart attack--these supplements did work for me. I have not had an incident for 5 years. And I take no drugs but aspirin, as to my heart/arterial system.

    The 2 supplements I use are both amino acids. One is L-arginine, and the other is Taurine. I take 1000 Mg of both 3 times a day. On an empty stomach. Morning, before workout, and before bed.

    L-Arginine is sometimes referred to as poor mans Viagra--it opens up and relaxes the arteries and is formulated into all those so called OTC testosterone boosters. 3 grams an hour before sex is a wow! By relaxing the arteries your blood pressure will be reduced. The Taurine as an amino acid is found in the greatest quantity and concentration in the heart. Recent papers that the Medical/Drug companies do not want you to see---show that Taurine taken in large enough quantities lays itself down on the surface and in the heart. It is theorized that the electrical circuits that travel the heart to be in proper rhythm--travel the paths of the Taurine molecules in the heart. Yet to be proven, but in my case and in dozens of other men that I have introduced this protocol to have all thrown their drugs away. My BP went from 150/95 to 110/70, in the gym I am 135/85, and at night after dinner watching TV--I an usually 100/60--and have not had an A-fib attack in about 5 years.

    I also take Serrapeptase, and Nattokinase[2 enzymes]--to dissolve excess Fibrin in the blood so I cannot form a clot that leads to a stroke or a blocked artery. First of 100's of papers started in Japan in1992. And I do take the coated baby aspirins---2 81's in the morning and 2 at night. The Natto is 2000 units twice a day and the Serra is 40,000 units twice a day on an empty stomach.

    So the Joke goes as Follows---My Cardiologist swears my heart is not going to kill me, and my Urologist says something else will kill me and it will not be Pca. So at 73--maybe it will just be old age.

    For more info get back to me---because there has to be a process of weaning off medication, as you add supplements---you can not stop cold turkey your drugs and start your Supplements--that can kill you. As I said I am not a Doctor--Best to you.

    Nalakrats

  • Thank you for the information! Much appreciated! Tell me the process for getting off the medication. I am on metoprolol 150mgs per day and 400 of multaq 2 times a day.Multaq is an antiarrithmic drug.

  • Jeff---how old are you and how long have you been on the drugs. I am not familiar with Multag--I just know it is an anti A-Fib drug---800 mgs a day is a lot in weight for a drug. I am concerned about how much you can cut back every 30 days while adding the Taurine and L-arginine---Do you take any blood thinners like aspirin, warfarin, or any of the new drugs? I assume if you go into A-Fib you probably take an extra Metoprolol to stop an attack--is that right? And do you have any attacks while on these drugs, and last, have you had a heart attack in the past.

    Nalakrats

  • I am 62 and have been on Metoprolol for 8years and Multaq for 6years and take baby aspirin for 8years. I have not had any A-fib for about 5 years. And I walk 2-3hours steady 3 days a week.And I have never had a heart attack ever!

  • Jeff this is what I would do. First I would order Nattokinase--every thing I suggest can be obtained online at Vitacost.com. There is a Drs.Best Brand I would recommend. There is a 2000 iu unit capsule. I would take one a day for about 2 weeks--then go to 2 a day and stay on that. One in the evening, before bed and one in the morning upon waking up. This will protect your arteries from forming clots which is to say prevent strokes or heart attacks in most cases.

    After the 30 days, of Natto, I would add L-Arginine 500 mg, and Taurine 500 mg on an empty stomach. When you do this I would cut 1/4 out of your Metoprolol and Multag. You can get the two amino acids also at Vitacost and would recommend the brand name Vitacost. You in the beginning can buy the 500 mg tablets. They have 1000Mg tablets also. Stay on this program for 30 days. After 30 days you are going to double the Taurine and Arginine to 1000 Mgs on an empty stomach--and cut your 2 medications in half. Stay on this for 30 days. The next 30 days. You will go to 1500 Mgs of the 2 amino acids and now you be taking only a quarter dose of your medications. At this time you will also add and take 500mg of the 2 amino acids at night. Again you do this for 30 days. Now comes the big move. After 30 days on the 1/4 dose of medications you stop them. At this time your going to be taking 2000mgs of the 2 amino acids. On an empty Stomach in the morning, and 1000 mg of each of the 2 amino acids at night. So when off the medication you will be taking 3,000 mgs, of each of L-arginine, Taurine, and the Nattokinase recommended above. If you are going to be exercising stressfully, like fast waking or Gym work, I would take 1,000 Mg. of L-arginine 20 minutes before a heavy walk or workout---this will increase the width of your arteries and allow for an easier flow of blood to your muscles.

    WARNING---always carry your Metoprolol in case something goes wrong--This is if you go into A-fib, and it will act as a rescue drug. I carry mine all the time--and have not had to use it. Going to get a fresh bottle as mine is about 3 years old.

    I also recommend--'up to you'--getting Country Life's Calcium Magnesium Complex--2 tablets equal 1000 Mg of Calcium, and 500 Mg, of Magnesium--also get Potassium 99 Mg. Take a full dose 2 Tablets of Cal/Mg/P twice a day with meals I recommend after breakfast and after dinner. These will reduce blood pressure, as this is one of the things Metoprolol does. The added benefit is that you will increase bone strength. The Cal/Mg is in the form of being Chelated. Without a big scientific explanation---the body will use all it can take and eliminate that which it does not need daily, and in the chelate form you will not generate Kidney Stones--which some men on this sight have done by taking the wrong form of the Cal/Mg. I assume you are taking D3--if not for the tiny cost I would add 5,000 iu D3 twice a day, as this will go hand and hand with the Cal/Mg--for bone strength being robbed by the castrate drugs. Again the Vitacost brand at Vitacost will do. Only Country Life makes the Chelate form--so I order that brand from Vitacost. I have been using the Cal/Mg/P for 20 years--to keep blood pressure in the low normal range--this keeps stress off the heart. Also as to the D3 it is in Phase 2 Trial Testing at MD Anderson, as it is so far showing at high doses to be stopping angiogenesis of prostate cancer cells.

    My last bone density was done 2 weeks ago, as I am on AHD drugs--and at 73 they said my Bone Density was the same as a 25 year old.

    Anyway you have enough to get you going--good luck/God speed--and as I said before I am not a Doctor--and all my Doctors just say to me 'whatever'---they do not care to know what I am taking or read the vast amount of literature on what I have mentioned above. They just follow the drug detailers advice.

    Nalakrats

  • Jeff, I take 12.5mg of metoprolol succinate. If I took the prescribed dose of 25mg my heart rate hits low 50's and my brain gets foggy. That just seems like a high does you are taking, but I am not a doctor and you are probably on a different variant of metoprolol.

  • Yes that is correct your not a doctor.I have trusted this doctor ever since I was taken out of work 8 years ago by ambulance with a heart rate of 208beats per minute! He is the best in the group that I go to! I do not understand this so called brain fog because I have never got it! And I am also on Eligard every 3 months which seems to give me energy! And Xgeva bone medication! But I am not your average man because 11 and half years ago when I got chemo I never got tired! And I never lost my hair neither which amazed my oncologist! who is also the top doctor who is still treating me today! And I will be walking today at least 2-3 hours steady! And also I might add that this is the second time around for the hormonal therapy which I dont find it as bad as they make it!

  • I had seen someone on this site list a paper mentioning the benefits of L-Arginine and Taurine so I ordered some just a month ago. I have been taking rythmol and metoprolol succinate for my a-fib. I've reduced the dosage that I take and my a-fib is well managed. I am dealing with fatigue now but think it is an ADT (eligard) effect. I have a couple more months until that 6 month shot wears off. It sucks to be tired much of the time. I am 66 and I work out 3 times a week. I wonder if I should try reducing the dosage on those a-fib meds now that I've started taking the two supplements you recommend.

  • WSOPeddie---you are probably referring to a conversation I was having with Patrick Oshea, about A-Fib, and the use of L-Arginine and and Taurine.

    Let me first state, I am not a Medical Doctor--who only take about 1 or 2 courses in Diet and Nutrition, but nothing on Nutritional Healing.

    This is the theory: L-Arginine, which those of us involved in Natural Healing refer to this amino acid as poor man's Viagra. It will expand the arteries and large veins, which increases blood flow, and reduces Blood Pressure, while in the body. It does not stay all day so those that use it for blood pressure, or are having sex all day, will take it 3 times a day. L-Arginine is the ingredient in men's work-out drinks/powders and so called Testosterone boosters, that is formulated to be the ingredient of the highest %, in these products--so it does not boost testosterone it just expands your arteries. Yes In my past life before Pca, I used it 30-40 minutes before ejaculation--it is a wow!

    So from what was said so far it is probable, that it will boost your workout capabilities, allowing for more reps and greater weights, even when on ADT.

    Now Taurine is more controversial. The Heart contains huge amounts of Taurine. The Theory is that the outer surface of the Heart, has molecules of Taurine, connected to each other to form a pathway for electrical conductivity. Kind of like a bunch of electrical wires, connected. So the Theory about taking large doses of Taurine, is it will lay itself down in the heart surface, and fix the mis-firings, by completing the circuit--just like splicing in a wire to complete an electrical circuit, to allow electricity to flow.

    Again, not being a doctor--all I can do is tell you that I was an A-fib Patient. I replaced my Warfarin, with Nattokinase, and Serrapeptase. And I take 2000 mgs of L-Arginine, in the Morning, before breakfast and in the evening before bed. I take 3,000 mgs 30-40 minutes before lifting weights. As to Taurine I only use it with L-Arginine, in the morning, and the evening, and I take 1,000 mgs each time every day, and I have been doing it for 10 years, and my Cardiologist, just says [whatever]--he does not want to know what I am doing. Medicare requires an EKG every year and that is all I do.

    As to my use of Natto. I take 4000 Fu units in the morning and 2000 in the evening--the Serra, I use, 80,000 Fu units in the morning, and 40,000 in the evening. I take with the Taurine and L-Arginine on an empty stomach.

    So let me warn you if you follow what I do, I am not recommending you do it. If you do do it, use caution. You usually reduce the use of your medications, like 1/2 for 30 days then a 1/4 for 30 days and then gone.

    That is all I have, on this subject.

    Nalakrats

  • Thanks. I've been on the lookout for years for supplements that provide more natural relief from A-fib. I had atrial flutter ablation surgery to allow me to tolerate rythmol so I've had my ticker adjusted already. I take CoQ10 and Magnesium too, which are also supposed to help. Don't worry, I wouldn't do anything rash. My a-fib is the least of my worries these days. Haven't had an episode in more than three months.

  • Not concerned about rash--just that it is not determined that I am practicing Natural Healing.

    There are 5 supplements that make up the cornerstone of good heart health, besides the CoQ10--hope you are using the water soluble, high absorbable --add 4 others, and you have added best bone health with the heart health, from what[ I am told]. The Taurine and L-Arginine, is really a treatment protocol, proposed by some but works for me. No drugs and no blips in 10 years--just Pca.

    Nalakrats

  • I tried to copy the infomation you listed later in this discussion and send it to a friend by text, no luck. Probably just my lack of techno savy. Could you send that info to kpell@tds.net ? Thank you, Larry Pell

  • I guess info given above my reply is whats needed...sorry.

  • Larry I am bogged down with a lot of requests--Is it possible you can print it off---and then rewrite and send?

    Nalakrats

  • Hi Durango,

    What's it mean to go "off to the chemist to get a bottle"? And, what is AF?

    Thanks, Joe

  • Joe AF is atrial fibrillation and I wish the chemist did stock a bottle of energy that,s me just trying to make light of it best regards Dave

  • OK Dave, got it. I guess you don't live down the road. All the things on the market that are supposed to boost your energy, are no good for you. I found that an open mind and a good attitude are the best way to go. And, a bit of humor helps. And, too much beer. Yea, beer! The best medicine.

    Peace, Joe

  • Now I used to like a beer not over the top but just a few I havent drunk much over the past few years so I reckon I better put that right Joe , no I dont live down the road I, m across the sea from you a sea that I have crossed many times over the years to the good old USA , I do have a positive attitude and a good sense of humour the only way to deal with cancer from my way of looking at it best regards I wish you well Dave .

  • Your not alone. I take a power nap, 30 minutes. Hang in there!

    Rich

  • I was on zoladex for two years the fatigue was debilitating , I found modafinil worked well for me with the fatigue and gabapentin for the hot flashes plus a fifteen to twenty min weight resistance routine worked wonders. I also managed not to gain weight by changing my diet mostly vegetables fruits and nuts plus lots of wine lol .I was 158lbs before treatment and still that weight . 63 years young G8 4x4 surgery,Rt ADT currently doing well PSA 0.03. testosterone 400 . Don't loose hope you can do this best of luck. It's been six years since DX

  • These reactions are highly specific to the individual. I am in my seventh year of Lupron and just added Casodex. No fatigue. Be very suspicious of the beta-blocker. Well known side effects.

  • FWIW, I used to take gabapentin on and off for some nasty nerve pains. It messed up my mind quite a bit. My wife finally got tired of it and told me to find something else. She was right. I tossed what I had in the toilet. So, watch out for irrational thinking.

  • @beermaker interesting about the gabapentin I am still on it for nerve pain and haven't noticed any phycological issues , would you care to share what your experience was thanks.

  • Beermaker: I agree with you about the Gabapentin messing up the mind. However, as an added note to all readers, do not toss old prescriptions into the toilet. Messes with the environment! There Rx drug take back programs everywhere. Read: earth911.com/recycling-guid...

  • @novatimo When I dumped the Gabapentin, I was not aware of any drug recycling programs. I did think about it at the time, but since I really wanted it out of the house, I went ahead and dumped it. After I made I my post, I figured someone would ding me / it for dumping. Thanks for the reminder to the rest of the folks here.

    @pcasucks It is hard to remember all the problems. First, my brain was clouded by the drug so it is hard to have a lot of memories of the issues. Second, at least 8 years have gone by and things fade... But I do know that I would sometimes lash out at people or things that did not deserve it at all. I lost a couple of good friends that way, and hurt my wife emotionally also. I have to say I am very happy to be off the drug. Once I started ADT, my PCP put me on Effexor for the hot flashes and the depression I had. That seems to have fixed my nerve issues, also.

    Good luck to both of you guys.

  • My experience is similar. After over two years of Lupron every six months and daily Casodex (Bicalutramide), my T was zero and had overwhelming fatigue plus muscle pain in lower limbs. I operate a ranch which means physical exercise with lots of walking. Over time I could feel my muscles melting. Consult with Doctor where we reached agreement to a sabbatical for the Casodex. My PSA is .01 and will have a bone scan this month. Lab numbers will determine my next step. My view is that the standard treatment protocol could be managed better with more frequent lab. Fine tuning treatment would likely improve quality of life for us. Down side is that the Doctors have to look at us more closely (taking more of their time.)

  • I read the other comments and agree with some. Here is my plan that absolutely works for me. And I am 73. I take a power nap at 2PM for 1-2 hours. Have a good 12 ounce expresso coffee and then go to the gym for at least an hour of extreme weight lifting and some aerobic added. When I walk out of the gym I am on a high--fell like a 30 year old. Now I have an advantage as I have been in the gym for 40 years--but it is never to late to jump in.

    Nalakrats

  • I like the tone of everyone's response. Keep positive, keep moving and PLAN to include exercise. Notice that no one mentioned that we also have gotten older, 1 yr, 2yr, whatever, while we've been on these drugs; that could be contributing, too. Do what you can, be kind to yourself, and nap if you need to. And think positively, you HAVE gotten that 1, 2 or, in my case, 15 yrs, while on these drugs.

    herb s

  • Dave,

    I'm on ADT for seven years now, it was about the two year mark when I started the down hill cycle of manopause. I was able to work up until around the four year mark. Today I'm on SS. In hindsight, if I had at least tried to exercise, I wouldn't be in such bad shape. What muscle mass I had turned to mush. I turned into a 208 pound cream puff, from 160. Now, 180. As for the urination issue, if you had radiation, be sure to be sure to keep Cystitis on your mind. I found out about it way too late, and am suffering for it.

    So I say diet and exercise are whats best right now for a guy at your spot in the game.

    Peace, Joe

  • Durango, fatigue, diarrhea, brain fog, etc is the nature of the beast. I've been on Lupron since March 2014 and Xtandi since December 2015. Keeping the brain active and exercise help. Stay the course and keep the faith. The drugs are keeping us alive! Enjoy your family and friends.

  • neil

    Intro age 75 at diag psa 33 Gleeson 3+5=8 stage T3 treated with lucron 4 monthly inj +81 gys rt to prostate and sv

    After 3rd inj extreme brain fog ,palpitations and sudden extreme weakness

    started dead sea salt baths [49% magnesium chloride] transdermal. Problems

    reduced and treatment became tolerable. Went on holidays [no baths] problems

    come back. Stopped 6th lucron inj 3 psa readings of <0.01 T<0.5 now taking 1/2

    eyedropper of mag clor [mag oil] per day. 3 years after stopping lucron

    psa 0.32 T23.5 memory still improving fat turning back into muscle. Now

    trying hormone balancing [refer to Dr John Lee] my age now 80 years and

    feeling fit.

    Durango be aware that castration causes a change in heart q time.

  • Besides exercise--as I mentioned above---in the gym, with a heavy weight training program, I suggest B-12 sublingual--to be placed under your tongue---as we get older our reduced acid in our stomachs we do not get B-12 into our blood as we did when we were younger. B-12 under your tongue--goes directly into your blood--really boosts you energy. Using a muscle building protein powder is also quite helpful---ask someone with knowledge at a Health Food Store what would be best--I use Muscle Milk Whey Protein.

    Nalakrats

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