I've posted (mainly comments on other threads) before about my son. I have adult diagnosed ADD (40s) and he has had ADHD since he was a toddler. We both take the same medication and dosage and my wife and I have spent 15 years supporting and helping him to make better choices and compensate for the ADHD symptoms that impact his life. With our support and guidance, he did very well in school and was an honor roll student. He was accepted at several universities that he applied to and went off to one of them far from home for his freshman year last fall. He crashed and burned in an epic way, failing 8 out of his 11 courses (several of the final grades were less than 15 out of 100). So he is living with me (father) this summer while I try to help guide him again to learn to take charge of his life and live like an adult. That's the main crux of my difficulty. Getting him to take the wheel and be in charge of his own life.
Today I'm frustrated because this bright, very intelligent 18yo son of mine, seems to give up at the first signs of difficulty. His life literally comes to a halt if he can't figure things out on the first try.
He's had a cell phone since he was in 6th grade. Yet he couldn't figure out how to set up VM, so he stopped trying and went without it. Resulting in missed calls with no messages (he failed his drug test for a job, likely because of his Adderall). So a few days ago, I sat down at the computer and set up everything he needed to use Google VM. I showed him how it worked, and insisted he set up his incoming voice greeting.
Eventually he contacted his prospective employer who told him he needed to call the drug testing outfit. They needed to speak with him. It takes him a while, and a few reminders from me, but he finally calls. Gets confused by their automated voice system and hangs up. He then tries to contact his company again to get 'instructions' on how to call back the drug testing outfit, but they never respond to him. After reaching out again, he is told he failed his drug test. He tries to ask for more information, but they don't respond. Again, he gives up. He sees no way forward.
Frustrated with him, I get the drug testing paperwork, look up the company, call (it takes me a couple tries to navigate their system), but I eventually talk to someone who can take down his prescription information. I hand the phone back to him so he can give them what they need.
They are going to verify his prescription, then call him back. However, his phone never rings when calls come in, so he is going to miss the call. I tell him to fix that. He says he can't. He's tried before and nothing works. I take his phone and in 30 seconds I'm tweaking the right settings (his ring tone was set to silent) and telling him to choose a different ring tone.
Once again, it feels like I need to hold his hand and walk him through basic things or else they won't get done. He won't even try to puzzle his way through anything that is vaguely challenging. I feel like I'm being a helicopter parent. Not that I don't let him fail. He fails quite often. I don't jump in to rescue him. However, once his life grinds to a halt, only by stepping in to help out does it start moving forward again.
I don't understand. I was never like this. My wife (who is highly functional with ADHD) was never like this. I can puzzle over things for hours. Days. Weeks. It can be like getting lost down a rabbit hole. My wife has less patience than I do, but she doesn't give up, instead she reaches out to get help from others when she hits a dead end.
If anyone has thoughts, suggestions, explanations, guidance that can help me to understand this, I would really appreciate it.
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BTV65
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Interesting question. Sounds like you and your wife structured your son's life rigorously to help him excel in high school.
Without your rigid structure around him, he's crashed and burned. Does he have no desire to go back to college? What is his dream job?
He will have to take responsibility at some point for his own life. Hate to say this, but you are enabling him to coast along (I setup his voicemail, I did this, I wiped his ***) Sorry to be blunt, but he MUST grow up and become an adult. Yes, I have ADHD too, and take Focalin xR 25mg with breakfast daily, so I also understand the PAIN and dis-organization.
Sounds like he's a pretty smart young man. If he's going to live at home with you, academia is a much better route to go initially than a job. This is because there are resources and accommodations at the colleges/ universities to help him succeed (more so than at a job). Plus in general, ADHD are usually quite bright and creative, so he needs something better than a 9-5 job. Perhaps your last of act of doing everything for him is to help him get back into school and set him up with study buddies, and tutoring so that this is a much better experience.
Go to:
verywellmind.com
Type in accommodations for ADHD in college (even just in google)
Get your son the book:
Taking charge of Adult ADHD by Russell A.Barkely Phd and Christine Benton (2nd edition)
BTW, sounds like both you and your wife, are highly functioning people who have really striven to overcome and slay your ADHD. Allow your son to do some slaying too, Being spoon fed everything can make people frail when it comes to any challenges, conversely enough.
Hope these ideas are helpful to you. Best wishes on your life journey.
What does he enjoy doing? What makes him happy? What happens when you tell him he can’t figure something out, like a bet, a real challenge that not a lot of people can achieve, something he could be proud of once he did figure it out and would surprise other people?
Might need new meds, exercise, a routine or just an old fashion ass whoopin into reality
It sounds like you are helping him too much. He might have to fall flat on his face and stay there until he gets tired of it. Then he will pick himself up. He does not need to do anything now because you are doing everything for him.
You and your wife need to set a time frame for him to either go to a local community college or trade school or get a job. If he does not do what is expected of him in that time frame. He will have to move out and be on his own. I know this sounds cruel and harsh. But if you do not move so he has to stand on his own two feet. he never will. He has no reason to try let alone succeed because you and your wife are taking care of everything for him..
It might be helpful to you and your wife to start seeing a psychologist to help you. A good psychologist can advice you on the best way to handle your son.. I'm am sure at some point he will get angry and try and make you and your wife feel guilty for trying to make him grow up and be independent. A good psychologist can also help you and your wife with how to deal with that..
hey BTV65! how frustrating for you and your wife. props to you both.
everyone has their opinion about what is considered “ enabling” and what others “ need” to do, lol.
I manage my ADHD a bit different than some ADHD folks and maybe this would be helpful for your son. It is very helpful for my 17 yr old.
Since us ADHD’ers have interest based brains- i do not torture myself with checklists, sticky notes, etc in attempt to function neuro typical. in the beginning i tried to do that and it only made me angry and resentful. So i design my life in a way that i only do things that are interesting to me. The trick is, i pick interesting things in all areas of adulting. I found a job i love so getting up early doesnt bother me( this is after 25 years of loathing n struggling). That was a biggie! I hate being on the road bc i have to be patient with other drivers, so i drive an orange car that makes me happy n play music i like, i dont Love laundry, but i do indeed like decorating a laundry room n buying this cool kind of detergent i found. i actually like cleaning so my house is always clean so that wasnt an issue, etc, etc…. some things i HAVE to do bc im an adult- like setting up my voicemail. i hate listening to voicemail- so i asked someone to set it up so it is transcribed thru my text messages. that was a brilliant game changer for me bc i can read it very fast vs listening to someone talk slow. i could go on n on n on but the real take away is this: some ADHD folks can train themselves to be neurotypicalish- some people just can not. if that person doesnt have good family n resources, they will likely find themselves homeless. if that person does have a caring family with resources, like your son, then he will continue to move thru life and just keep the parents in constant state of worry n irritation tearing their hair out, lol. like you n your wife are doing right now😢 unless that ADHD person finds something that they truly find interesting.
For me, despite my education, etc, i just absolutely never went much of anywhere in life trying to use normy life hacks. Perhaps my method or any part of it might help your son.
ps- by clinical definition
enabling is when you do something for someone who could absolutely do it themselves. they just dont care to bother to do it.
support/ helping is when you do something for someone who hasnt figured out how to do it for themselves( yet😎).
May I suggest a different approach than you have received thus far?
He needs you to be his coach to bridge the gap between childhood and adulthood.
How does one learn to ride a bike? One doesn’t place a child who has been on a tricycle straight away onto a two wheeler without holding onto the back or hovering around them until they’ve got it. Why should transition to adulthood be any different?
1. WHAT WORKED IN THE PAST:
You said: With our support and guidance, he did very well in school and was an honor roll student.
May I suggest going back to this and rather than just releasing him cold turkey to crash, that you transition more slowly? (He crashed and burned in an epic way, failing 8 out of his 11 courses (several of the final grades were less than 15 out of 100)
2. THE PRESENT TRAJECTORY:
You said: [He] seems to give up at the first signs of difficulty.
Once again, it feels like I need to hold his hand and walk him through basic things or else they won't get done.
However, once his life grinds to a halt, only by stepping in to help out does it start moving forward again.
These statements all suggest that your son needs baby steps in becoming independent. You saw success in the past with your help. How about now slowly weaning him?
I have two kids with pretty significant adhd. One can’t take a step forward without me at the helm but will take the steps if I help map it out (high school senior daughter). I also have a 20yo son who is crawling through college and keeps failing classes. He is more strong willed and won’t accept help at the helm. There is nothing I can do until he crashes but I will be there to help him when he does. He needs baby steps too but isn’t willing to take them yet. It’s painful to watch but I must draw boundaries for myself around an adult who doesn’t want help.
3. THE FUTURE:
I suggest viewing yourself as a coach. At the beginning, yes you have to be very involved but then slowly (as he experiences wins) slowly back off. He needs you to be the scaffolding in his life. Ask leading questions. The voicemail setup? You could have sat next to him and given him small choices like what message do you want to record? He sees that one small step, takes it and feels success. Success is a motivator. Note: Procrastination is a hallmark trait of adhd and presents itself as more of a challenge to some.
4. FINAL THOUGHT.
I am in no way an expert. I have listened to other parents on this site who are ahead of me in the process and you know what they say? It may be late 20’s to early 30’s before these kids make it on their own. In the meantime these amazing parents have committed to back off slowly as their young adult children experience wins. Why? Because these kids have adhd. They’re smart but developmentally younger than their peers, and they won’t move forward without support and wins. I plan on ordering the book “When An Adult You Love Has ADHD.”
You’ve got this because you care. I know you care because you’re looking for help. The wise older parents on this site know what they’re talking about and I’m grateful for them.
I hear you. I also hear all the other opinions. The entire time my son has been growing up there is always this balance to strive for. Teach him good habits and what good choices look like. Help him when he needs it, but hold him accountable for doing his own work. Let him make his own mistakes and learn from his failures. Limit failures to ones that aren't major or have long term consequences when possible.
The first year of college is an avalanche of change. It can overwhelm "normal" people. However, he chose a university that was far from home. Another country. The support staff wouldn't talk to me about him. They always pushed back with "he has to do it himself". There was no way for me to support or guide him. We both tried, but it felt like trying to steer a boat with a toothpick.
The job I am insisting he get, is to get him out of the house and experiencing the real world. I'm OK with him eventually getting fired. I'm hoping the opposite happens and he learns a lot of real world lessons and grows from it. I think it will give him a background he is currently lacking. Provide a new perspective to help him grow and see things differently.
We aren't willing to send him back to that university so far from home. Period. We are footing the bill and it feels like we just threw away $20+K so that he could prove to us he can't handle things. I pushed him to apply to a local university and he will commute from home so I can keep an eye on things.
I've read books, watched videos and learned about ADHD to help him. This board is filled with young folks coming here who are failing at life and feel their parents don't understand or help them. Sure, I could kick him out of the house a few years from now when I'm legally allowed to. I could watch him couch surf, or be homeless. He would hit rock bottom and maybe bounce back. Maybe not. I think he suffers from depression and anxiety. He might just take his failures very personably and commit suicide. I could imagine it happening. There are so many ways things could go wrong.
On the other hand... I hear the arguments about enabling. That my efforts and support are the very things holding him back. I worry that I'm coddling my son and preventing him from growing up. I'm at a loss about what is the right thing to do. What is best for him in the long run?
In my family, both my siblings were older and couldn't wait to get out from under the oppressive thumb of my father. My sister left at 17 and was back within 6 months, hat in hand, humbled by her experience. Life is harder than you realize. My brother lasted longer. He left when he was 18. Then he came back. Then he left again. Then he came back... Both were very motivated individuals who tried their best and still failed. I was the baby. I saw all this and decided I wasn't moving out until I had my act together, had graduated college and could stand on my own. I had no intention of ever moving back once I left.
So I understand the value of having someplace you can go to be supported. I also understand the value of being able to make you own choices and mistakes. I want him to be a success. Don't all parents want that for their children? I'm just constantly torn over what is the right path...
However, all that being said. My main question was focused on not understanding why he gives up so easily. I don't agree that he does so because he knows I will fix it. He's had a phone for 7 years and never setup VM. He's had this particular phone for well over a year and has failed to set it up so it rings. I don't think either of those was because he expected I would fix it for him. He certainly has never asked me to do so. I think he doesn't do these things because he doesn't see value in spending his time and effort to do it. Just like anyone else. The reward is not worth the effort. Also, as it typical with teens, he lacks long term perspective. He doesn't really feel driven by long term goals.
Thank you for your caring response. That is how I would like to proceed (coaching) and that is how I have been approaching most things with him. I've been teaching him how to cook, and shop as well as coaching him about getting a job, etc. I just get frustrated with his tendency to give up so easily.
I hear you. I like the toothpick guiding the ship analogy. Lol.
My high school senior who gives up easily also suffers from diagnosed anxiety (social) and just started a summer job. Every day I pray she won’t call me to go pick her up. Helping her get this job was painful but she’s there and I will support whatever I can to keep her there and get her out of her bedroom. If she needs takeout food when I pick her up (sharing a car) or a donut from 7 Eleven to get her through her shift than that’s what I’ll do. Some need baby steps. I dare say mine needs infant steps.
Example of growth. She is terrified to converse with people. She had to speak on the phone to get this job so I helped her craft a script that she went off. You know what? She didn’t avoid a phone call the next time because she had a strategy for dealing with it which was crafting a script. Sometimes they need tools to help them self start.
Will she ever fully be a self starter? Oh I hope so but if she’s not I hope to help her start something she can stick with.
Bottom line is I get it. Some days are easier than others, right?
At one point my son was faced with calling his prospective college to find out information, or he wouldn't go to college this year and instead work full time. Rather than calling, he decided he would just get a job and work full time....
I get it. I have strong anti-social tendencies myself and feel anxious about talking to other people. However, I feel when I was his age, if the stakes were high enough I could still overcome that fear and do what I needed to do. It just feels like he can't.
I was proud of him for being able to go to his job interview. Baby steps.
He needs to do college at home for the time being. He needs a mentor that is not his father also.Trust me when I say this I had 18 year old soldiers that were nearly the same, they learned and are doing great.
Crashing and burning is when he’s on the street doing drugs or in some gang.(I failed all of my college classes my second semester, nearly all of them my first)
Prioritize lessons in honor, selfless service, duty, respect and integrity above all else.
Never voice your frustrations with him while you are in the presence of the public.
If he needs to do something, stand over him and calmly tell him what to do step by step until he does it himself.
Imagine yourself a drill sergeant without the yelling.
Everything will fall into place.
Every person with ADHD has their own areas in which they struggle. I would recommend an ADHD Coach to help him to learn new strategies, become accountable for himself, and not keep him dependent upon your wife or you to bail him out. As a parent, I’ve helped my adult children when they were younger with issues, but as adults I feel that it may be more beneficial to have help and guidance from a professional. I feel compassion for your circumstances. Your son hasn’t consistently taken responsibility. An outside source of help may motivate him in a better way. Being accountable to someone outside of your family, may be what is needed to get him moving. I truly hope that this situation gets better for all of you!
I did manage to get him to go to counseling. I think he suffers from other issues, like depression or anxiety. I'm hoping a counselor can help identify what's going on inside his head and give him some help and direction. I want to give that some time first then ask her about an ADHD coach to get her opinion.
I respect that you want your son to be capable. I want to praise you as a parent for seeking help for him! I wasn’t given any, and was deeply hurt. Let him heal and grow young!
Hello again. I was just catching up on your follow ups and agree that it’s important to see if a formal dx of anxiety is at play.
My daughter and I met with an adhd coach and in the end it wasn’t a good fit because she was too scared to talk to her. She also refuses therapy and will leave during the middle of sessions. She has responded better to me guiding her because of her severe anxiety.
She is formally dx’d (the insanely long testing that took 13 hours over two days) with adhd, generalized anxiety (which manifests as social anxiety), and occasional depressive states. She also developed anorexia nervosa last year due to what the doctor says is ARFID. School refusal is a big issue as well. A previous psychologist (prior to her refusing to go) said she suspects HFA as well. This poor kid has the mother load.
All this to say that I am beginning to think I’m dealing with the UK recognized dx of pathological demand avoidance. It completely fits who she is. I recommend the book “PDA in the Therapy Room” as you mentioned some pretty intense anxiety and avoidance tendencies. It is absolutely eye opening. I learned about PDA on this website and this book has strategies for helping deal with crippling anxiety.
Hang in there. It’s a marathon, not a race, that’s for sure.
Today I had a nice, calm conversation with him about giving up. "Look to the internet or ask others for help, but you can't just give up on things like this that impact your life." I then assigned him the task of getting his gmail notifications working on his phone. A bunch of important things come in that way and he never sees them, so the ball gets dropped.
I suspect he has something else going on. He definitely seemed to be showing signs of depression at college. He's also shown anxiety at situations. However, I'm not a professional. He is talking to one and I'm hoping to get some direction from her eventually.
I have great compassion. There’s so much facing us in life. Being a parent is challenging enough. I truly wish you the best of results for your precious son, and your family. No judgment intended in any way. Just compassion.
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