Symptoms like underdosing due to gluten?

[Lunario]

Sorry for this long and wordy post, it's just a simple question:

I thought gluten wouldn't affect my well-being. But I never ate large amounts of bread, cake, pasta, or anything containing large quantities of wheat or spelt. And I usually preferred wholemeal bread to white bread, with occasional exceptions. Frankly, I silently found all the talk about gluten concerning Hashimoto's quite hysterical. Ashes on my head, now I know better.

During a vacation on Crete, I ate white bread daily (by the way, no prescription is needed there for T4. I asked in a pharmacy, just out of interest).

At the end of my holiday, I noticed strange symptoms, as if I had massively underdosed. Actually, this was impossible. I had adjusted my dose months ago and felt good and stable with it (and I still do), and I was even happy with my lab results (I'm considering just a minor increase in T3 intake).

My symptoms were carpal tunnel syndrome in both arms and my eyelids appeared to be thickened and drooped, the right one a little more than the left one. Especially in the evening and at night, and normally for me that is a typical sign that I am underdosing, but that couldn't be the case.

So, I gave up gluten to see if that would help. And it did! After about 4 weeks I tried buns and cakes and those symptoms returned.

Fried with breadcrumbs seems to be fine. But a slice of gray bread causes terrible flatulence.

I wonder if I'm a bit coo-coo because I keep reading that gluten-related symptoms affect the gut and not the nervous system, or even cause neurological symptoms or swelling around the eyes. Trying to reduce gluten apparently confirmed this for me, but is it really possible that gluten caused this?

Has anyone else had similar experiences?

Thank you for your thoughts 🙂

[Marz]

Gluten can be an underlying cause of inflammation - which can start in the gut and spread throughout...

[Lunario in reply to Marz]

Thank you, Marz. I suspect that was the case.

[FallingInReverse]

Marz said it so very succinctly.

Just another anecdote - my friends grandfather was “diagnosed” with dementia . Long story short, it was gluten and inflammation causing it all. Eliminated gluten, and all symptoms disappeared.

Inflammation! So completely impactful and so overlooked and misunderstood!

[Lunario in reply to FallingInReverse]

Wow! 😮 That makes me positively speechless. Thank you, FallingInReverse, I hope that more such stories will show up here.

Because I have no confirmed diagnosis of Celiac, I often feel a bit belittled when I say that I feel better without gluten. But feeling belittled is a well-known circumstance for patients with Hashimoto’s, I guess...

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Lunario]

Strongly recommend you cut gluten out completely

Read all labels of ingredients carefully

[Lunario in reply to SlowDragon]

Yes, thank you. I would like to read some documents that prove this. Can you name any sources?

For example, there is a German website that actually explains thyroid disease and what can be done very well. However, the operator writes that the claimed link between the molecular similarity of gliadin and thyroid antibodies does not exist.

She does not deny that avoiding gluten indirectly helps many people. However, the explanation she provides sounds conclusive, but I lack the relevant references or sources.

If it's not necessarily celiac disease, why are so many people with Hashimoto's apparently wheat-sensitive? Is it possibly the generally compromised immune system going haywire in this context?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Lunario]

If it's not necessarily celiac disease, why are so many people with Hashimoto's apparently wheat-sensitive? Is it possibly the generally compromised immune system going haywire in this context?

Hashimoto’s causes inflammation

Wheat (and dairy) are considered inflammatory foods

I tested negative for coeliac on blood test, had endoscopy and this showed damage as if coeliac. Gastro then did DNA test as he couldn’t believe I wasn’t coeliac……DNA test ambivalent…..probably not coeliac

I never had any obvious gut symptoms. But found I was significantly better on strictly gluten free diet (since 2016) ….now dairy free as well since 2022

the “lived experience “ of thousands of members on this forum…..confirms significant numbers find they do far better on gluten free diet …..what ever the reason

Slightly smaller numbers find dairy becomes an issue too

Wheat ……apparently is sprayed with glyphosate before harvest …..could this be an issue

sourdough.co.uk/glyphosate-...

I suspect I am predominantly wheat sensitive rather than gluten intolerant …..but I am not prepared to “rock the boat” and try rye or barley to put that to the test

Or it could be that modern wheat has higher gluten content compared to ancient grains

And the way bread is made commercially has changed too

schoolofhealth.com/news/201....

Gluten is a family of proteins found in grains such as wheat, rye and barley and is what gives dough its elastic texture. It helps bread to rise, and more gluten makes for a lighter loaf. Modern ‘hard’ wheat varieties can contain more than twice the gluten of traditional softer varieties. While this makes them popular with commercial bread manufacturers it also means we are consuming far more gluten, and the more gluten that reaches the gut, the greater the chance of a reaction.

Changes to processing

New processing techniques were introduced in the 1960s using high speed mixers, high pressure and chemical oxidants. These methods made it possible to refine large amounts of wheat more quickly and at a lower price, but also affected the structure of the starch and gluten molecules in the finished product. Grains no longer needed to be soaked, sprouting and fermented for hours; however, those traditional processes are necessary to deactivate certain anti-nutrients in the grain - such as phytic acid, enzyme inhibitors and lectins. This new method of processing changed the way the finished product acts inside the body.

To get an idea of the scale and speed of change - just over 100 years ago around 70% of our bread was baked in the home, but within 20 years this figure had more than halved and by the 21st century very few loaves were homemade.

grainstorm.com/pages/modern...

[Lunario in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you for this comprehensive answer. And sorry for the late reply, I had a family reunion in my hometown (the restaurant food was terrible).

Although I no longer eat it, I can confirm that bread is more digestible when the dough is given enough time to rise. There was even an article about it in a German medical journal.

I didn't think avoiding gluten would have such a noticeable effect.

And last but not least, it's something you can control yourself. It's bad enough that you have to weed out so many ignorant doctors before you find one who doesn't look (only!) at TSH like a rabbit looks at a snake.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Lunario]

Love the description 😊👍

🐍 🐇

[Lunario in reply to SlowDragon]

🤣🤣

[humanbean in reply to SlowDragon]

New processing techniques were introduced in the 1960s

The new processing techniques referred to is/are probably the "Chorleywood bread process" :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorl...

[Lunario in reply to humanbean]

Very informative, many thanks.

[Jazzw]

Look up “gluten ataxia”. Getting glutened can indeed cause interesting effects outside the gut. One of the ways I know I’ve been glutened is when I find it hard to string a sentence together (it’s all ok in my head but the words come out in the wrong order—really strange!).

[humanbean in reply to Jazzw]

I get exactly the same problems! - Muddled up words, not just in speech but also in spelling, and I stagger a lot (ataxia).