I’ve had a few bouts of viral illnesses and related symptoms for much of 2024 and have also been recently diagnosed with fatty liver on top of the Hypothyroidism I’ve had for 15 years or so.
I’ve seen a few different doctors of various specialities (including Liver, Heart, Endo and General Medicine) all privately. They all seem quite keen to give me a prescription for one of the weight loss jabs and talk about them being the best thing since sliced bread.
Yes I am in the obese category, have borderline high sugars and carry my fat predominantly in the belly area so I agree these are all high risk factors. However I am really surprised how quick they are to want to write up a prescription before even considering more conservative measures like the magical “eat less and move more” advice!
Am I being cynical or are these doctors getting some kind of commission or kick back from either the manufacturers or the pharmacists for issuing these prescriptions?
My concern is two of these doctors had a lot of belly fat/beer bellies themselves so I wonder why they don’t take the drug given they claim they are so effective!
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Wired123
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My concern is two of these doctors had a lot of belly fat/beer bellies themselves so I wonder why they don’t take the drug given they claim they are so effective!
Exactly! Try asking them if they've tried these jabs.
No, I don't think you're being cynical at all. There has to be something behind it, as with statins and anti-depressants. All far more lucrative than good old thyroid hormone replacement, if you catch my drift.
Exactly! You give your money to them. You break your bank, they get rich.
Whether it’s “commissions “ or whatever they call it, doctors nowadays are educated by drug company employees (in the US anyway) and they have incentive (not sure what form it takes, but follow the money) to prescribe big Pharma not off patent and unprofitable things.
I also learned that in the US, pharmacies actually lose money in some drugs because they can’t source them for what insurance will reimburse. Then there are certain drugs that make up for it. Everything is so upside down!!!
just to add I’m quite cynical because a friend of my partner is a private consultant. I once complimented him on his lovely Mont Blanc pen worth about £400 and he told me it was a gift from a pharmacy where he sends a lot of business (ie, prescriptions).
Right! Reading down this thread - there’s an example !!! Follow the money.
I’m not even sure how these things are regulated in the US. In business there is the UK Bribery Act and similar in the US and elsewhere where you couldn’t give a $400 pen to a client without it being flagged.
how do you enforce it though? who is checking and how do you trace the origins of a pen? the pharmacy is probably privately owned and they can put whatever they like through their books or paid directly out of the owner's pocked (off the books!).
I can only speak from experience but taking these drugs is literally the only way I’ve lost weight having hashis. I’m currently paying out over £400 a month on ndt, private care & wegovy. No doubt there are some unscrupulous practises but for me the fact glp1 have helped me so much I’m on not in a position to criticise. One thing I’ve noticed is I seem to slim out even when the appetite suppression wears off, I think there is a great benefit from the drug. As we both have hashis I know you will have similar experiences to me- trying everything and living clean just to get puffy overnight. It’s certainly a challenge
So I stared on it in 2021- the irony being I had started working with a personal trainer then.
I had lost about 2 stone when I started on NDT taking me down to 11stone anc a size 10, ideal for my height & build. But in 2020/21 I started to go through peri menopause and even with the PT my weight climbed up to 13st8 from 11st7,
I’m quite tall and I got a dexa scan around then which showed I had high muscle but also my fat was high ( 37 percent- mostly subtecaneous as opposed to visceral!). I had to stop weight training at that point and definitely lost some muscle too. Overall I’ve lost 2 stone & 5 percent fat by taking initially saxenda then onto ozempic now I’m on wegovy. Initially this was simply due to eating very low calories, but I suspect it does more than that as when I take it, even if I eat moderately normally I lose on the scales. I’m maintaining my weight now not losing anymore but still take it as advised it’s a life time commitment!
Having quite complex health, both hashis and peri menopause my case may be different to you, not least on gender! But I know you are good at tracking things so you could always try it and see how you find it- as I said I feel it works over and above appetite suppression but obviously that’s a big factor.
Currently I’m seeing a tele medicine doctor (he is listed on thyroid uk list) so I’m paying for that in relation to NDT & reports, it’s working out about £250 for tests, reports& medication- that’s around what I paid just on importing meds from America! I get my wegovy from an online pharmacy it’s £240 a month for 1.7mg dose, but that’s maintenance dose after being on it two years- you could get it for around £150 on starting dose. I tried coming off it and gained weight rapidly. It’s costing me all my spare money and I’ve not had a holiday or any luxuries for years but for me my weight was ruining my life so this feels worth it!
I think it’s interesting that there’s so much interest in getting us on these jabs. HRT too. But if you take enough thyroid hormone to lower your TSH beneath the bottom of their arbitrary reference range, that’s bad.
Not saying that Wegovy/Ozempic/HRT in the right circumstances are a bad thing. Just that it’s odd how there’s all these different rules about the hormones you can take and what’s considered to be perfectly ok and what isn’t.
Kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies have been a thing for a long time. It used to be ordinary pens and mugs with the Pharma logo on. You can tell how much money must be at stake if that now extends to Mont Blanc pens.
Indeed kickbacks have been going on. This pen example is actually from a pharmacy not the pharmaceutical manufacturer so clearly the little independent shops are also making a lot of money!
I think I’d do a literature search. I did recently read that there have been some surprisingly good results with these diabetes drugs for health problems unconnected to diabetes & obesity.
I can’t remember anything more but given the chance it might be worth trying it.
The belly fat problem has so many detrimental effects on health that I’d love to get rid of mine. Nothing has helped so far. High T3 only, gluten & dairy free, low carb diet, loads of expensive supplements, acupuncture, etc nothing has worked. I don’t even eat or drink much!
I’m sick of being given the healthy eating talk. I think I probably know more about nutrition than most of them. Wegovy is apparently not pleasant for some people, nausea etc but it works. Maybe try it?
I'm like you apart from the gluten and dairy free bit.I would've jumped on a plane to Turkey for weight loss surgery if I thought it would work. But when things were at it's worst eating less than 900 calories most days and sometimes less. I felt surgery wouldn't work so why put myself through it. I feel same about ozempic but then thinking about it I feel taking berberine has helped me ever so slowly lose some weight and that was advertised as nature's ozempic.
Would be lovely to be able to lose 1lb a week instead of 1lb a month but I'm not complaining.
I know my metabolism is on the floor even with now exercising. It's cruel when you're doing everything right and just don't get the results
I know the feeling. I did 18 months of really good diet (literally protein shake, grilled meats, veg and salad) as well as 3 x weight training sessions a week plus some walking. I still did not lose much weight 😑
Carry on what your doing, increase calories if your on next to nothing and I started to eat carbs. Take one capsule before each meal. I stopped losing after about 4 months so stopped after 6 months. They say to cycle it to give body a rest. I started back on last month and noticed I lost 2lb like in 3 weeks.
I know the weight training will be main reason why my bloods are now in normal range but for me i feel the berberine has played a part. Basically having metabolic syndrome, this is what berberine is said to help with.
I never thought for a minute I'd get any benefits from taking it. Only when read they could give you tummy upset ( diarrhea) did I decide to take. Having chronic constipation I welcome anything that will clear me out, It didn't though 😂
what show/channel was this? there's also a book called Magic Pill by Johann Hari which talking about these drugs. It's quite a thick book so I declined to buy it
yes .. i saw that programme too.. can't remember what channel ... i got the distinct impression that it only works while you take it .... when you stop you'll very likely just go back up in weight. so yo-yo-ing could be a significant issue with it's use for weight loss.
personally if i was going to be stuck on something for life i'd sooner be on 'enough T4 and T3',,
.... but that's easy for me to say cos i seem to have been blessed with 'whatever effects this stuff has' for free presumably thanks to my genes... i'm rarely hungry or even particularly interested on food , and many days i have to force myself to eat properly / i stay feeling full after a very small meal / i don't have food cravings apart from sugar, i can eat 'all the donuts' without putting any weight on, and i don't even put significant body weight on when hypo , i just get a lumpy looking face. So i should probably shut up ... or everyone will hate me.
I was a member for a while of a group for users of these drugs, and the majority gained the weight back when these drugs were on backorder (which seems to be happening all the time).
Nice article and thanks for sharing. I do always wonder how much "input" the drugs manufacturer had in the article and whether it's really a PR piece for the manufacturer and not a journalist's unbiased research.
They suppress appetite and increase insulin secretion to lower high blood sugar. They were, after all, diabetes 2 drugs to begin with (Victoza/Ozempic/Mounjaro) which were found to result in weight loss so are now sold as weight loss drugs (Saxenda/Wegovy/Zepbound) containing more of the active substance.
From my experience, only t4-levo and t3 are not enough in the fight against weight loss, Mounjaro+( gastric sleeve) bariatric surgery in advanced obesity should be considered...
I think they are sometimes too quick to prescribe these drugs.
Even if they work for many, the latest research seems to suggest you need to stay on them indefinitely or gain most or all of the weight back. These drugs are not a quick fix!
They are now so popular that there is a global shortage. Many have to go on and off them and find them to work less well after a while. The price is incredible, I cannot believe what you have to pay for a month’s supply of Wegovy or Zepbound (Mounjaro for weight loss)…it seems some doctors prescribe Ozempic off label for weight loss as it is covered by health insurance in most countries, but this leaves many patients with diabetes 2 without medication.
I read that Novo Nordisk which makes Saxenda and Wegovy will invest billions to build new factories and ramp up production. That is likely to increase the cost of the drugs even more.
In my own experience, hypos face more challenges than overeating and not exercising enough, such as low T3 levels in cells, lower metabolism and water weight. These drugs reduce your appetite drastically, but eating less is not a good idea if your metabolism is already low.
Whatever floats your boat Wired123. However I have history with amphetamines prescribed about 55 years ago for ‘unexplained’ weight gain. Just reading this post brings me out in a sweat. I would never touch anything again for weight loss.
Recently I saw a cardiologist of my choice. I did as much research as possible to find someone I thought would be sympathetic to my situation. However it has ‘back fired’. The list of heavy duty drugs is scary but I am not yet taking any of them because I am seeing an NHS endo shortly with a special interest in heart/thyroid.
I noticed semaglutide on my list. Even my GP was shocked and advised me not to embark on the list until investigations were complete and definitely not to start on them all at once!
Since then I watched the programme with Liz Carr (from Silent Witness) talking about “Assisted Dying”. There was a moment in that programme where she was interviewing a Canadian doctor carrying out this process with patients and asking why she was doing it, the doctor’s reply was very telling re: medics.
“Doctors like happy patients and my patients are all happy”. This is the patients from her special work.
Perhaps all doctors have this as their priority? That would explain why they seem to dislike us hypos so much. We are not happy and certainly not happy with our treatment.
Anyway I digress. Many doctors will be motivated by “happy patients” and so they prescribe (as hero doctors) completely over the top drug regimes.
My cardio was certainly suppressing her fury at my follow up appointment because I was not taking any of the drugs she prescribed. I got the feeling she was looking for good feedback (and appropriate gratefulness from me). She even had a student there to ‘witness’ the charade (I could be a bit over estimating with that comment).
It’s totally re-damaged my trust in the medical profession AGAIN!
How does the NHS do this? A drug aimed at Diabetes is prescribed by a cardiologist, whilst my diabetes markers still waver on the cusp (another blooming story). However no issues about thyroid could be taken into account. ONE isolated endocrinology decision (diabetes) can be made by a cardiologist and not another (hypothyroidism) when so much research around hypothyroidism is heart orientated!
Regular thyroid problems (hypothyroidism) are NOT a feature of medicine other than in ineffective endocrinology departments.
interesting theory re the happy patient syndrome doctors suffer from. Some of them have very fragile egos, hence needing the "Dr" before their name... getting a happy patient will give them their sense of self worth!
Always refer to a doctor by their first name, it totally throws them off their high horse!
I thought I would post my experience / knowledge of Mounjaro:
I have put on about 60lbs probably due to a declining thyroid function over the last two years. I looked into weight loss injections because I have had an Achilles rupture and knee tear this year. I need to get the weight off asap as I like being v active.
I have been on Mounjaro for 2 mths. I did read a lot before speaking to my Endo about it who is supportive. Mounjaro / Zepbound has been out in the US for at least 2 years so there is a reasonable amount of data out there for medium-term use. These are not new drugs, they are just new to the U.K. I have read a lot of stories from Mounjaro users about weight loss and maintenance over 12 mths. Maintenance is achieved by extending the time between injections and reduction of dosage. Eventually people stop taking the drug - so this is not something people are on for life.
The vast majority of success stories seem to be those people who have used the drug as an aid to change their lifestyle, ie eating cleaner. I think they are the people who are able to keep the weight off too. The drug doesn’t cause weight loss - you have to be eating less to lose the weight. It simply helps you to lose weight by making it easier for you to maintain a calorie deficit by slowing down the transit of food and by reducing insulin sensitivity. For someone with a ‘fast gut’ like me, this is a godsend. I now find it easy to leave food on the plate. I feel much less like someone who wants ‘seconds’ and more like someone who just eats three reasonable-sized meals.
So how have I found it overall?
It has been a revelation. I have lost approx 20 lbs so far. I lost 7lbs in the first week which was probably some of the infamous thyroid water weight. So, it is definitely not some sort of magic pill for losing weight quickly - I lost far more, quicker on Atkins in the 1990s. There is enough weight loss to keep me positive and not too much that I feel unwell or it is not sustainable. Most of the stories from the US group are people that have achieved their ‘goal weight’ over 1 - 2 years. I can’t imagine most people being able to maintain. a standard diet protocol for a year without this help. What I know about habit activation is that doing something for 1-2 years will create positive, long-term habits. This can’t be a bad thing if the habits are good habits.
I can eat a healthy diet - so meat, fish, tofu and vegetables. Cravings for trash, ultra-processed food are virtually non-existent. My sugar consumption has dropped off a cliff but my energy levels during the day are improved. I am using the lack of ‘food noise’ to trial eliminating gluten to see if that helps with the Hashi’s. Anecdotal stories from the US group are of Hashi patients reducing their T4/T3 dosage but that may be due to weight loss.
My bloods are better on the drug - ie vitamin levels. I put this down to my body actually absorbing what I eat rather than it flying through me. My inflammation levels are significantly better as is my duration of sleep. I used to take my Levo at 5 when I woke up. The time has now switched to 6 because I am sleeping more deeply. My BP has always been healthy, but it has dropped by 10%.
Cost-wise it is pretty neutral for me because I mostly live on my own and I am just consuming far less. Takeaways, snacks, hot drinks out are just not something I fancy any longer.
Side effects
Yes, if you continue to eat a large amount of UPF, then you are likely to feel pretty rough. However, that’s just your body telling you that it prefers clean food to a cheeky McDonalds. I have had times when much younger when I ate like a monk on a health kick and my body reacted in exactly the same way to takeaways, so I don’t think it is a drug side-effect so much as a bad diet side effect.
I have found that I have slightly increased tiredness the day after the weekly injection but nothing as bad as thyroid fatigue.
Prescribing
I have mixed feelings on this. Yes, it is probably too easy for inappropriate prescribing via the online pharmacies. However… I think someone with an eating disorder is likely to get hold of this stuff anyway. They also represent a small minority v the ‘large’ majority, so I think it is important that most people can access this drug. I just wish the NHS was able to prescribe it more. I don’t understand the logic. Mass buying this drug has got to be cheaper than having 100,000s of people who are obese. I also think this site is a testament to how much people suffer when they cannot get hold of the drugs they need. So, I think restricting prescribing of these drugs to private weight loss clinics or GPs would be a big mistake and one that would increase access costs for everyone.
So in conclusion it is a big yes from me because the benefits of being lighter outweighs the limited personal downsides.
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