Ft3 295% 3 hours after dose, taking 95 t4 and 30 t3 in one go (Armour and Thybon T3)

[Incoguto]

Hey all,

I am currently not splitting the above dose and I'm getting weird symptoms every single day.

My ft3 is 90% of range in the morning, but it goes up to 295% after the dose. Ft4 is 54% after 3 hours and about 38% in the morning.

Would splitting it help with hypo and hyper symptoms? I seem to be getting both, feeling the worst at 2 pm.

Thank you!

[SlowDragon Administrator]

please add actual results and ranges rather than %

Would splitting it help with hypo and hyper symptoms?

Yes quite likely

What dose Armour and what dose Thybon

Try as 3 doses spread across the day approximately 8 hours apart

[Incoguto in reply to SlowDragon]

Ft3 8.45 (1.48-3.91)Armour dose 2.5 grains

Thybon 10 mcg

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Incoguto]

So try splitting armour as 1 grain waking, 1 grain mid afternoon and 1/2 grain bedtime

Perhaps reduce Thybon by 5mcg and just take 5mcg waking?

What was Ft4 result

[Incoguto in reply to SlowDragon]

Ft4 1.13 (0.7-1.48) 3 hrs after dose or 1.02 about 24 hours after dose.I'd rather split in 2, years ago taking Armour at bedtime prevented me from sleeping. Could I do 1.25 grain morning with thybon and then 1.25 mid afternoon? Or should the morning dose be bigger like 1.5 or even 2 grains? Probably trial and error.

Are people typically splitting ndt?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Incoguto]

Many people split NDT

If it kept you awake when tried at bedtime previously, it doesn’t necessarily mean it will now

You could try 6am, noon and 5pm

After 4-6 months you might find you can slowly move last dose of day later

Personally it’s taken 7 years experimenting to find what dose, brand and particularly timing for T3 doses suits me best.

[greygoose]

Would splitting it help with hypo and hyper symptoms?

It depends. If you're still getting hypo symptoms (and hyper symptoms are so similar it's difficult to tell them apart) on the dose you're on - whatever it is - then it could be that you're actually under-medicated.

Or it could mean that you have some degree of thyroid hormone resistance and actually need to take your dose all at once to flood the receptors and get some T3 into the cells.

I really wouldn't take much notice of the percentage through the range after you've just taken your dose. Highly unlikely it would stay that high long enough to produce hyper symptoms.

[Incoguto in reply to greygoose]

I increase morning dose and landed on several beta blocker and xanax few hours in, then increase my tiny afternoon dose and the same happened, something tells me I either need to split it more evently.I checked my percentages, the peak goes to 300% after 3 hours and 10 hours in is close to 200% and then it goes down to 91% 24 hours after the dose. So my whole day it's quite high and I feel good only morning before meds and late night.

[greygoose in reply to Incoguto]

OK, well, you are taking quite a high dose of T3, so perhaps it is too much for you. In which case, I don't think splitting the dose will help that much. I'd try reducing a tad, if I were you.

But, on the other hand, with that pattern of feeling well, not feeling well, could have something to do with your cortisol levels.

[Incoguto in reply to greygoose]

Cortisol was checked, before meds after meds, salivary as well, that's all fine. It's definitely the t3 and maybe I need a more even distribution of it because I metabolise it quite quickly

[FallingInReverse]

Curious - I guess you got a few home tests and times them to your dosages?

[Incoguto in reply to FallingInReverse]

Yeah, I had nurse coming in taking my bloods first thing and 3 hours after the dose, because I start to feel unwell 3 hours after taking meds and then evening feels like I am very hypo despite ft3 being 91% of range 24 hours after dosing.

[Incoguto]

Hey radd hust tagging you here in my post 😀

I was wondering if splitting my dose could help? We talked about enzymes deactivation when taking a big dose of t3. My blood glucose isn't great since tweaking meds, a bit over range. I assume that could be from t3?

I wonder if I'm getting too much t3, then it deactivated, then I feel hypo/hyper rollercoaster everyday.

Reducing the dose doesn't help, I just get more hypo and have even worse symptoms, increasing the dose somewhat helps for a while, but every single day at 2-3 pm I get horrible symptoms (brain fog, dizziness, my vision gets blurry, anxiety, feeling dehydrated).

[radd in reply to Incoguto]

Incoguto,

Oh poor you, but you are on a high dose, and why are you even taking T3 with Armour (that contains T3) when your T3 levels are already high?

As already said (in other post) with NDT there should be no need to medicate split doses but as you appear so unwell it must be worth trying but primarily stopping the additional T3 meds would be most advantageous as your peaks evidence it is not required.

The 3-4pm slump is common in people with adrenal issues as discourages sustained blood glucose levels. Hypoglycaemia can make you dizzy, faint, experience double vision and feel shaky. I could never rest at 3pm because of kids school pick-up timing so made point of resting after lunch every day. I reversed my blood sugar issues (and symptoms) by eating smaller meals that always included protein and having protein snacks in my pocket to prevent blood glucose plummeting when I was tired. Some people also experience an early 3-4 am wake-up every morning and although this is for slightly different reasons the treatment is the same and that is to ensure blood sugar level remain normalised.

Further up the post you state your cortisol levels are fine, but in a previous post complain of adrenaline rushes. These are the result of struggling adrenals, so I would suggest hypoglycaemia caused (or exacerbated) by continued daily massively elevated T3 levels, and so yes, splitting your NDT dose may help the meds work better by ensuring a more even spread in a endocrine system not working too well.

'Reducing the dose doesn't help, I just get more hypo’ You likely will feel worse until meds (that are the correct amount/ratio) start working properly, and that won’t be until a more ‘normalised’ level reduces the ‘deactivating’ enzyme. RT3 (created by the inactivating enzyme) is usually eliminated from the body via excretion and conversion to another inactive metabolites but this pathway can be impaired by much elevated RT3 levels, hence making the process of reversal many months.

Eating and sleeping well, optimising essential cofactors (such as selenium and zinc required for the hormone conversion processes), supporting the adrenals, and patience are needed. Also liver support as hepatic function slows in hypo but is involved in getting rid of a large part of excess/old RT3.

Hasn't anyone suggested you reduce your T3 levels previously?

[Incoguto in reply to radd]

I was on 3 grains of Armour, feeling well for a couple of years and it stopped working. I added t3 because without it I couldn't function at all.I reduced NDT to 2.25 grains and my levels plumetted to bottom of range and was highly symptomatic.

My ft3 only went to 79% 24 hours after the dose after adding 7.5 t3, otherwise it is lower.

I feel like the peak might be to blame. I tested salivary cortisol recently and levels were improved on more t3 as opposed to just NDT. I was even tried on HC, but my cortisol is more on the higher side than low.

As most people split NDT, i feel it's worth giving it a shot. What do you think?

I don't think I'm experiencing a slump, the slump moves timewise depending on a dose and when i take it.

Blood sugar is elevated when it happens, it's top range or over🙃

I was just curious as to what happens at such peak of NDT, could it be getting deactivated and causing issues. Maybe splitting I won't need so much t3?

Rt3 first thing in the morning is under midrange.

I think my adrenal rushes are from thyroid meds.

Thank you so much radd❤️

[radd in reply to Incoguto]

Incoguto,

It’s all a mine field isn’t it? and I’m only another Hashi sufferer offering own experience and what I’ve read 😬 … and here’s further thought …

‘I feel like the peak might be to blame’.

The peak probably is partially responsible for your symptoms but its height evidences you are over medicated which is likely a more concerning factor.

When we exceed our thyroid hormone needs with meds, some people might feel immediate hyper symptoms whilst others will tolerate it because of other factors at play. It can also sometimes be difficult to decipher between hyper and hypo systems. Then one day that raised dose tips the balance your body can tolerate, and from there on in more and more hypo symptoms start slowly reappearing.

Then no medication dose or combo appears to help alleviate those symptoms and that person becomes lost regarding what to do next. Thyroid hormone meds can be fussy and it’s unlikely you were under medicated on 3 grains. They should only make you feel better, and if they stop working it’s better to determine why as opposed to just taking more or switching meds.

[Incoguto in reply to radd]

It is a mine field, but have to keep going! I don't know about being overmedicated or if the balance is wrong.

My cholesterol is still elevated despite eating healthy, I'm still 10 kgs overweight too, my estrogen dropped since I dropped my dose in 2022, same with shbg, sodium isn't high. I used to take 4 grains before I moved to 3 grains. 4 grains seemed like too much.

Hopefully one day soon I will resolve this mystery