Curious about ADHD?

[Insomania]

Off the wall but now I'm being treated for hypothyroidism I'm starting to wonder if I may have ADHD. Has anyone else experienced this?

[FallingInReverse]

ADHD is listed as a “symptom” of hypo.

I see it as related to the mental/cognitive/brain fog aspects of this disease.

Someone in a recent post said they don’t believe the whole list of hypo symptoms because it included adhd and pointed out that being hypo doesn’t CAUSE it.

It made me think about the my rosacea… sure my hypo didn’t “cause” or originate my rosacea… but with sub optimal thyroid hormones it’s like the tide going out and revealing a predisposition, or creating a hostile environment in our bodies that trigger it.

That’s how we say - optimize your T4/T3 and 90-99% of the whack-a-mile feel-like-I’m-90-years-old-and-dying basket of symptoms get better.

There is no doubt that I am suffering from concentration issues. Memory and brain fog issues. Did my hypo CAUSE it. I’m not sure. Was it there BEFORE my hypo… not sure.

Is it immeasurably and dysfunctionally worse since my hypo situation exploded and my Free Ts tanked. YES.

Very interested to see others responses.

And how others dealt with it.

I have picked up along the way that these are things that have helped others:

- optimal Ts (of course)

- HRT - gave some their brain back, I read

- Gluten free - cleared up the last remaining cognitive issues for some

- LDN - very uncharted! Can work, then stop working , but many say it’s a great fix for a slice of our symptoms .

I also wonder about those who maybe take adderal.

[greygoose in reply to FallingInReverse]

How do you know hypo didn't cause your rosacea? Why do you think it didn't? Why wouldn't hypo cause ADHD? The brain needs a lot of T3 and lack of it causes all sorts of problems. I honestly don't believe that anyone can say that anything is NOT caused by hypo because anything and verything can be. When the body is short of T3, it shuts down certain receptors that it considers of less importance so that organs like the heart can be prioritised and keep you alive. That is why symptoms can be anywhere and everywhere because every body has a different list of priorities when it comes to shutting down receptors. Lack of T3 affects the whole body, not just certain parts. So, I see not reason why anyone would doubt that rosacea and ADHD are hypo symptoms.

[FallingInReverse in reply to greygoose]

Agree with your questions, it’s what I’m on my learning curve about.

My first area of learning is to think about the cellular stuff happening. What you explain above I’m taking it all in, reading, matching to my experience.

My second area of learning is knowing the logic of “not all hypo have rosacea” and “not all with rosacea have hypo”. Slowly learning the co-incidence and then getting closer to deeper understanding about all the various threads of it.

And trying to land on where there is certainty.

My pondering. 1) My mom has rosacea and has zero hypo issues (experientially AND I’ve looked at her blood work this past year with new eyes.) I have a friend with ADHD (they say, treated with adderal) and they don’t have hypo issues (as far as I know). 2a) Yes, I see what you are saying that low T3 can CAUSE cellular breaks and damage and CREATE and CAUSE adhd. 2b) I also know nothing about the bio/physiological makeup of ADHD. I’m not even sure how adhd is diagnosed… is it more a “syndrome” and collection of symptoms, vs a particular blood test result? I dont know.

Another example - a friend got Covid and then was diagnosed with Lupus. Another friend got Lyme disease and never got better, then found a doctor who said they were hypo. So did Lyme “cause”, “reveal”, “trigger”, etc etc

So I’m just teasing out cause/correlation. And since it’s a mixed overlap, just still learning up on certainties.

[greygoose in reply to FallingInReverse]

I don't think anyone can answer any of those questions you're asking yourself with any certainty. For on thing, you can prove a negative.

I'm sure we all know a lot of people that have lost/are losing hair, and not all of them are hypo. But that doesn't mean that being hypo doesn't cause the hair-loss of a lot of hypos. Yes, other things can cause it. Other things can cause all hypo symptoms because of their very nature - they are all non-specific. But for that very reason we can never say catagorically that 'hypo didn't cause it'. So, not a good thing to say on a thyroid forum unless you have the proof that something else caused it. To go back to our hair-loss analagy, with some people - hypo or not - it's low iron that causes it and when they raise their iron/ferritin, the hair grows back. But that doesn't mean that being hypo can't cause hair-loss. I think we have to be very careful about how we word things.

[Steni in reply to greygoose]

Hi , I’m just rereading your post and I dont understand what you mean when you say ‘not a good thing to say on a Thyroid forum - is that because Thyroid sufferers need to believe all their symptoms originate from their thyroid issues ? If so that would seem to suggest that the diagnosis of a Thyroid issue is little more than a catchall for anything and everything people want it be

[greygoose in reply to Steni]

No, doesn't mean that at all. You didn't reread my post very carefully, did you. Previous posters had said that this, that and the other wasn't due to their hypo. I asked how they knew it wasn't because anything is possible, we have to keep an open mind. All hypo symptoms could be due to a lot of other things, but just because they could be, doesn't mean they are. After all, what is the most likely scenario, that you have 36 diseases with one symptom each? Or that you have one disease with 36 symptoms?

I went on to say we have to be very careful how we word things - 'might' and 'could' are very useful words. Saying 'this is definitely not due to hypo' - which is what so many doctors say - without any proof is not helpful. Saying it could be, or it might be due to something else, is more honest.

Also, just because your hair-loss or your weight-gain or your in-growing toenail wasn't due to hypo, doesn't mean that no-body else's was either. Because all things are possible. And dismissing symptoms out of hand as not due to hypo is not a good thing to say on a thyroid forum.

I hope I've made that clearer now.

[Steni in reply to FallingInReverse]

what a brilliant post - so many intersecting thoughts and possibilities- I have no answers but I am enjoying your hypothesis and looking forward to seeing if anyone has any insight .

[Insomania in reply to FallingInReverse]

Yes, I'm not yet 'optimised' with T4/T3 and I'm looking forward to seeing how that feels when I get there....

How I would describe it is pre-hypothyroidism & pre-perimenopause I had so many tools I was using to get by and it was hard work but I was doing it, juggling all the balls. But something has changed and I cannot anymore.

I have a strong family history of autism and adhd including all my children. A lot of my friends are neurodivergent. It's lifelong, I'm just perhaps realising it's been there all along but in recent years I've lost the tools to mask it? Or the energy to do so?

It was only 2008 that NICE recognised ADHD in adults so it is a relatively new phenomena but I know from my own family, girls and women with ADHD have always been there. More medical gaslighting....

[Blissful in reply to FallingInReverse]

Low stomach acid means nutrient absorption is impaired and that cascade/impacts everything.

jeffreydachmd.com/2014/10/r...

What Causes Low Stomach Acid ? Association of Rosacea with H Pylori

Low acid production is frequently associated with some form of gastritis or inflammation of the stomach lining which may lead to atrophic gastritis. A common gastric bacterial infection called H. Pylori has been associated with gastritis and gastric ulcer. In addition, H. Pylori infection has been associated with Rosacea, and eradication of H Pylori with triple therapy treatment has been reported to “cure” Rosacea.(5-13) We routinely test for H Pylori and provide treatment with Triple Therapy when this is found.

Ivermectin Cream for Rosacea Caused by Parasitic Mite

One school of thought is that Rosacea is caused by a parasitic mite, the Demodex folliculorum mite. If so, then the anti-parasitic drug ivermectin would be indicated. In 2016, Dr Ekert treated 34 cases of rosacea with 1% ivermectin topical cream.

nutritionandhealing.com/201...

"In 1948, an article about rosacea in a major medical journal stated “every dermatologist knows” about this connection. Now, it seems like hardly any dermatologists know about it!"

[FallingInReverse in reply to Blissful]

Blissful - I am so grateful you shared these two links. It gives me information I didn’t think existed! And I am blown away by the biological/physiological element the articles pointed out - as it will unlock one more explanation for my health over the years.

Also isn’t it amazing to see one more missed opportunity for the health care industry to help early hypo people. My rosacea started showing up pretty much as one of my very very earliest symptoms. I have to think about when it was… earlier than I thought actually.

If some dermatologist had known to connect the dots imagine how much better my quality of life would be right now.

[Mandlou in reply to FallingInReverse]

hi

I’m going through this aswell I have symptoms of ADHD and Autisum but also hypo thyroid and worried what to do next ..

I have to do gluten dairy yeast low histamine low fodmap diet ..

For SIBO and Histamine issues but if I go off this diet I have much worse symptoms of which a lot if hypothyroid

SIBO causes roseca and I’ve read lots that sibo is due to slow motility ..

if I go off diet I have chronic impacted stool, feezinv cold, hair loss, can’t keep eyes open , fatigue , joint pain can’t excersise , depression, brain fog loads of thyroid symptoms ..

but left with a sibo label and mcas but have read that hypo causes

Histamine

Sibo

Gluten and dairy free helps Autoimune

I also have b12 issues iron vitamin d which gets even lower the longer I’m off the ridiculous diet !

My tsh is very low my t4 and t3 are very low in range and again if I go off this diet my t4 and t3 drop under range ..

But I keep being told to fix my gut but I can’t and I think even on diet my metabulisum is to slow ..

I have to keep drinking coffee if I just drink water I’m freezing and if I go off the diet even very hot day I’m freezing ..

My sister is like this aswell ..

So desperate to find a thyroid private who can help as I’m stuck doing such a ridiculous diet which is getting harder and harder approaching menopause ..

My skin is so thin and dry I have no libido just feels disgusting I have yeast infections all the time , high cholesterol , chronic sinusitis all the time I m sure a leaky gut does causes thyroid issues but my gut is never getting better

X

[Lovecake in reply to Mandlou]

Go on Thyroid UK website. There’s a list of private endos. One of them might be able to help. Mine does zoom calls, I expect most of them do.

[Mandlou in reply to Lovecake]

Thankyou x

[FallingInReverse]

YES YES YES! I could have written a lot of your reply above.

Esp this:

How I would describe it is pre-hypothyroidism & pre-perimenopause I had so many tools I was using to get by and it was hard work but I was doing it, juggling all the balls. But something has changed and I cannot anymore…

It's lifelong, I'm just perhaps realising it's been there all along but in recent years I've lost the tools to mask it? Or the energy to do so?

I’ve also read that the effects of low T3 on the brain are often the last to lift.

I have some strong hypothesis on answering exactly what you said above.

I have a bunch of “answers” but still letting them all sort out as I concurrently isolate and optimize my Ts (and maybe my perimenopause situation).

Also - chronotype/body clock I won’t say too much here, I’ve some a lot of learning but am not articulating my conclusions yet. But I have read that body clock (peak times for both waking vs thinking) is a genetic trait that does not change over time, and not related to blood chemistry, and not influenced by the entire circadian/cortisol/etc rhythm. I know some things… but am still in the discovery and sorting out phase.

Just noting it here, as given your screen name, wondered if you have fully unpacked what I assume to be insomnia problems?

[Insomania in reply to FallingInReverse]

I’m replying at 1am, that answers your Q haha.

I believe my thyroid issues started in my last pregnancy 7 years ago. That baby has never been a sleeper, but it found I couldn’t get back to sleep after feeding her. It got worse. I take low dose Amitripyline which helped. With the NDT Armour I’m getting 8h per night. Wish I could get to sleep earlier but my cortisol isn’t great.