My friend is the one struggling and in desperation looking to find others who have gone through something similar to offer hope that in 'just' waiting, we're doing the right thing...
Sam has had depression twice, but both after sudden life-altering events. Despite having had severe fatigue and not feeling 'herself' for many months, she didn't realize she had Hyper until a blood work confimation. Despite a strict regime to overcome it, she fell suddenly and deeply into a depressive state that is more intense than her previous combined. 24/7 panic attacks.
She's on medication to stabilize her levels and the numbers are moving in the right direction, but each day is unbarable, so the idea of 6 weeks, maybe, is beyond what we can comprehend.
Have other people been through this?
Do levels stabilizing stop the depression, eventually?
Thank you in advance for any support you can offer.
God bless.
J
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Jim4Sam2024
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I would suggest the first thing is for your friend to ask for a copy of all the blood test results and reference ranges she has had done by the NHS over the last, say, 2 or 3 years. She might be shocked at how little ever gets tested.
From my personal experience and from reading other posts on here, depression and anxiety can be caused by low iron, low ferritin (iron stores), low Vitamin B12 and/or folate, low levels of other nutrients, anaemia, low levels of thyroid hormones.
This is a thyroid forum so everyone will mention low thyroid hormones and/or low T3 (the active thyroid hormone) as a cause of depression.
Another possibility is cortisol levels being too high or too low. Cortisol levels and thyroid hormone levels are related. It depends on how long someone has been ill and untreated how bad cortisol levels are.
You say your friend has been diagnosed with hyperthyroidism. This may be true. To confirm it she would have to have tests for her antibody levels to see if she has Graves' Disease. There are several types of antibody that can cause various thyroid diseases.
One major problem with thyroid disease is that hypothyroidism i.e. underactive thyroid, can often start with periods of what doctors diagnose as hyperthyroidism (i.e. overactive thyroid). If they treat her for hyperthyroidism when she is actually on course for hypothyroidism her thyroid hormones levels will likely drop like a stone and could make her very ill.
Another possibility is that your friend has central hypothyroidism i.e. a condition in which her body can't produce enough TSH for her needs. Since TSH is used as the main method of diagnosing thyroid disease this can also lead to wrong diagnoses.
Increased anxiety has been the worst symptom of having a thyroid condition for me and it is always worse if thyroid medication or key vitamins (ferritin, folate, vitamins B12 and D) are not optimal.
My GP initially diagnosed me with ‘ health anxiety’, suggested I saw a psychotherapist & offered me anti depressants. Joining this forum helped me realise that my symptoms were related to being under medicated and I followed forum advice to improve this.
It is extremely important to share blood test results with us and bear in mind when medics say normal/ within range, this is often not the same as optimal.
Please add most recent thyroid and vitamin results
And extremely important……all thyroid antibodies that have been tested
just testing TSH is completely inadequate
Recommended that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test and if on levothyroxine……last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)
Private tests are available as NHS currently rarely tests Ft3 or all relevant vitamins
Testing options and includes money off codes for private testing
And apologies, I should have waited before posting until I had the bloods and meds. Got excited finding a active community... 😊🙏
I'm English, but I live in central America. I'm getting her bloods and meds to date and will post shortly. She's currently in San diego getting the best possible treatment, but on the verge of going into a clinic, she's that bad from the depression...
She had hypo and it flipped 3 months ago, potentially from a few days of forced insomnia. Apparently not graves. Tested for paracites, mould, all sorts... Nothing. Did 4 weeks of rtms (very effective depression treatment) and no response.
I'll post shortly with more info. Thanks again!!!!!!
Sounds like autoimmune hypothyroid disease, aka Hashimoto’s
Hashimoto’s can have temporary “flares “ - excess thyroid hormones released as thyroid is attacked and cells breakdown releasing excess thyroid hormones
It’s not true hyperthyroidism
After a flare finishes typically will become a little more hypothyroid as there are less cells functioning
These tests have different ranges depending on the lab where they are done, so will need for the best responses here.
Also, anxiety/depression is absolutely 100% a symptom of being hypo. It’s something I have never in my life experience until now - and it’s completely based on my sub optimal thyroid bloods. It is not situational. And, yeah, it’s the worst!!! But it does help to know that once thyroids are optimized then it will also get better. And it helps to know that I do not need anti-depressants (despite most doctors thinking that’s what us women need when we present hypo symptoms.)
Now, if someone who is ALSO clinically depressed ALSO becomes hypo then there would be two root causes that would be addressed. But this is when this board can help us - gives us the confidence to assess our complex hormonal systems, start to understand root causes (for me, hypothyroid). I am treating the thyroid and ALMOST all of a dozen symptoms are clearing up. And for those where there are other causes, it sure does help to detangle the part that has to do with Thyroid.
Lastly - ferritin (and iron) - when at very low levels, has a symptom of anxiety and a word called “derealization.” Has your friend also had her iron panel bloods done?
Thanks for this! Yeah, she's concerned it's depression too, but given there was no trigger, I'm not so sure. Is there anything that helps speed up the impac tof T levels impacting the TSH? It seems that's what's needed to impact the mood...
I don't have the first bloods, but the ranges will be the same as it was the same lab. Hopefull they give you enough info? Thank you so much for you help and info. I've asked her about Ferratin too, thanks!!!
Free T4 was 4.5, free T3 was 9.5 before the latest results above (this week).
we always need range on results
You can see there’s vast difference in two sets of results
Recommended that all thyroid blood tests early morning, ideally just before 9am, only drink water between waking and test and ……if on levothyroxine…..last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip)
Thanks for the advice! I'll 100% give her the tip on early testing...
Shes had some bad experiences with Lithium so probably won't do that, but maybe the results I posted offer more insight? Thanks again, so appreciative!!!
Oh yes it can hit hard 😔 I’m 44 and have had symptoms of perimenopause for a couple of years. I’m feeling a bit better on HRT patches, it’s worth talking to the doctor about it as HRT can make an enormous difference for a lot of women.
I’ve been taking T3 too (liothyronine) which has really helped as T4 (levothyroxine) alone wasn’t enough to make me feel better. Symptoms of underactive thyroid can actually be very similar to perimenopause so it can be very hard to know what’s causing what but once my thyroid levels were up I added HRT to the mix and feel better for it.
Low thyroid levels can make you feel dreadful emotionally, mentally and physically - these alone can explain a lot for your friend.
Also how’s her sleep? I developed sudden insomnia (I think hormone related) and mental health can take a real hit when you’re not sleeping. Magnesium helped me a lot too. I take magnesium bi-glycinate. No screens a few hours before bed too as blue light is very disruptive to sleep, or wear blue light blocking glasses, they’re great, I just wear them if watching TV in the evening and try to avoid using my phone. Also keep lights dim around the house. And get lots of daylight, especially in the morning.
Please tell your friend she’s not alone and she will get better, the people on this forum are so supportive, kind and knowledgeable and helped me enormously 🙏 sending best wishes to you both and for good health ❤️
Depression is a common effect of under treated or not treated hypothyroidism.. Given that the antidepressants did not work for your friend it points more to that.Sadly do need the ranges of the thyroid results -, usually figure in brackets as I know the labs in America have a very different range to the UK.
Years ago when I was Hypothyroid I got sent to a psychotherapist. After 5 sessions he said your problem is organic - a direct consequence of your Hypothyroidism not bring treated optimally. He was right. I saw a thyroid specislist privately who recognised very obvious physical signs.... Eg moon face, slow speech/processing, dry hair and skin, puffiness, slow movements, poor memory, low energy . All of which resolved in time with thyroid hormone treatment.
Pyshchiatrists are supposed to be trained in recognising the signs of hypothyroidism as opposed to mental health illness.
So seemingly OK, yeah? I hear it's the TSH that 'controls' the hormones and that takes time to be impacted by the T3/4, yeah? Anything known to speed that up?
It may not respond if it's been suppressed for a long time or if it's faulty.... Another reason why the TSH is not a good guide on its own..... Lol I know you know this Slowdragon. 😊😊😊
it starts at the end of the first reply from me : " To understand why TSH stays supressed for a long time after an episode of hyperthyroidism/ overmedication, (or ANY T3 use) has finished... "
and is continued in detail much further down in another reply from me : " CONTINUED HYSTERESIS ~ Why TSH remains lower for quite along while following episodes of hyperthyroidism / overmedication .... (or any T3 use) , it is due (at least partly) to a mechanism called 'Hysteresis'...... "
Hope you find something useful in there Jim. Best Wishes to you and Sam , Tattybogle
I’ve have hypothyroidism since 1997 and had depression and anxiety. I got off of the antidepressants for about a year and had to get back on them. I’m still on them. But everyone is different.
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