Adrenal glandulars

[Hollybushroad]

Hi all I'm just looking for an adrenal glandular supplement to address phase 3 adrenal dysfunction as per recent Regenerus lab result.

I've since had a syncathen test but no diagnosis.

I find alot of confusing information when I google these supplements as alot of them mention as "balancing adrenals" Surely they

either help raise low cortisol or decrease high cortisol? I certainly don't want to be taking anything that lowers my cortisol levels even further.

Any guidance would be much appreciated

[TiggerMe Ambassador]

Hi, Klaire Labs, Thorne and Adrenavive are the ones I have used mainly as they come in different strengths so that you can mix and match to find the right one for you at the right time of the day.

These ones are just glandular whereas there are a lot of 'Adrenal Support' products that contain adaptogens and vits/ mins that you are better off avoiding and taking individual supplements for ferritin, vit D, B vits, folate etc if needed

Have you read through this post?... look at DFC's comments right at the bottom of the post

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

[Hollybushroad in reply to TiggerMe]

Hi EeoyreThanks for your reply. Is the selection of which of the adrenavive strengths ie 1, 11 and 111 based on phase of adrenal dysfunction. ( I'm phase 3) ?

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Hollybushroad]

I is Whole Adrenal so contains medulla and cortex, II (150mg) and III (300mg) are just cortex (so no adrenaline) as with most things its a case of titrating so starting low and finding your dose and timings to suit, I guess as with everything peoples needs and response varies.

Chances are you'll need nearer the top end of 550mg per day with stage 3 for possibly quite a while

Thorne is 50mg, Klaire Labs 250mg

[Hollybushroad in reply to TiggerMe]

Thanks for that infoDo you think I would perhaps be better ordering the adrenavive 11 then (150mg) so I have more flexibility re dosage during the day as opposed to ordering the adrenavive 111 (300mg) . I'm assuming they are capsules so wouldn't be able to split?

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to Hollybushroad]

Yes they are all capsules... I'd hold off ordering anything until results are in for your SS test, he might decide to offer you hydrocortisone

[Hollybushroad in reply to TiggerMe]

Hi EeoyreThanks for your help.

Yes your probably right re holding off on taking anything until I get sync result. I just assumed by now if it was anything major (although obviously very concerning for me ) that I would have heard something but perhaps results not back yet.

I just get so impatient waiting between appts

But just have to sit tight I suppose. Thanks for your help 😃

[radd]

Hollybushroad,

I think you are referring to 'adaptogen's, so named because their strong properties can help adapt good hypothalamic - adrenal control. Most are known to encourage cortisol higher, lower and remain balanced as work towards balancing the HPA axis to function better. However, each may behave differently in different people bringing varying results and why conventional medicine doesn’t embrace them.

I love ashwaganda which has helped me with both low and high cortisol but it can be tricky if you have Hashi (as is a nightshade) and some members have found it has taken their cortisol too low. Adaptogens should only be supplemented in a rotational method.

Some members have found supplementing adrenal glandulars such as Adenavive useful. There is the whole glandular that offers overall adrenal support, or just the cortex that doesn’t include adrenaline for those with intolerance. Glandulars can be supplemented for as long as is necessary.

Hopefully others with experience of Adrenavive will comment further as I haven't taken it.

[Hollybushroad in reply to radd]

Thanks Radd for your reply.Yes I find this all very confusing. My Regenerus results are low at all 4 points in the day(obviously I would expect that at bedtime sample.) So it's not like there's fluctuations.....my levels just show almost a flat line in the low zone all day. So no variations at all. Thus my need to avoid anything containing adaptogens

[Hidden]

Hollybushroad can you post your synacthen results and saliva cortisol profile?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Hollybushroad I found these posted 2 weeks ago -

8am result 3.7nmol (Low)

( Optimal range 14-25)

(Ref range 7-30)

Noon result 2.5nmol (Borderline)

(Optimal range 5-10)

(Ref range 2.1-14)

Evening result. 2.8nmol

(Optimal range 2-5)

(Ref range 1.5-8)

Night result. 1.2nmol

(Optimal range 1-4)

(Ref range 0.33-7)

DHEA 144pg/ml

(Ref range 106-300)

Personally I use this rt3-adrenals.org/cortisol_t... for interpreting cortisol.

So you are very low across all counts aside from the evening, in particular your morning level is quite concerning.

Personally I’d be researching hydrocortisone if these were my results. I am currently on hydrocortisone and my morning level was more than double yours. Do you have a sympathetic endo or GP?

You said you had a synacthen done so please do post the results of that, it should be very helpful.

I’d steer clear of adaptogens in your position, your cortisol is extremely low and the unpredictability of how adaptogens may interact with you is too risky.

What thyroid meds are you on, if any? And if in any how do you get on with them?

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

Sorry I've just inadvertently sent my reply to you to myself.See below

[Hollybushroad]

HiThanks for your input.

Yes I really am very concerned about these results.

Yes mornings are extremely difficult for me. This has been a pattern for many years but over recent yrs it's reached a whole new level of intensity.

I had my first appointment with private endo a couple of wks ago expecting to discuss my Thyroid (i have hashimotos) and brought along my recent Regenerus lab results. Whilst he did comment that my results looked pretty low he was very quick to say Syncathen test was gold standard treatment test for adrenal dysfunction so I had test done about 9 days ago.

I'm assuming if sync results were alarming (as in life threatening) to him he would have sought immediate treatment for me. They are however obviously very concerning for me. Not sure how long results take to come back. I've been unsuccessfully trying to track down his private secretary.

At appt he started me on 5mcg of T3 re Thyroid issues but I haven't started it yet as waiting on him arranging script with pharmacy. He said he would email details in due course. I have review appt in 7 weeks time . Its all abit of a mess really timing wise....my adrenal problems coming to light at same time as a long awaited trial of T3 but don't want to miss the opportunity now that he is agreeable to prescribing it.

I have read conflicting research articles re treating adrenals first before Thyroid meds can work however other articles seem to suggest that T3 can help treat low cortisol . Pau Robinsons CT3M method would appear to suggest the latter. It's all very confusing really. 🤔

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

Syncathen test was gold standard treatment test for adrenal dysfunction so I had test done about 9 days ago.

I would agree with him there! Synacthen will be able to tell us a great deal 🙂

my adrenal problems coming to light at same time as a long awaited trial of T3 but don't want to miss the opportunity now that he is agreeable to prescribing it.

It is dangerous to begin thyroid hormone replacement if you have true adrenal insufficiency, so if I were you I would wait for your synacthen results to begin the T3. Tbh your cortisol looks so low that you will be unlikely to glean much benefit from it without cortisol support in the mix too.

Pau Robinsons CT3M method would appear to suggest the latter. It's all very confusing really. 🤔

IMHO Paul does a very poor job of explaining the difference between primary and secondary adrenal issues, I understand why you are confused! His CT3M will only likely help a secondary issue (it will possibly improve your ACTH signaling to the adrenals) it wouldn’t be likely to help a primary adrenal issue (the problem is with the adrenals themselves). And we don’t know whether your issue is primary or secondary until we see your synacthen results.

In your position I would sit tight, hold off on the T3 and wait for the synacthen results to come in 🙂 then you can decide your next steps.

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

Thank you it's all abit of a mess really timing wise!!!Have you personally had the sync test done? Do you know how long it takes results to come back?

Will sync result just tell you if the adrenals are capable of producing x amount of Cortisol and is there's a cut off point where Addisons is diagnosed?

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

It’s not that bad timing wise, sounds like you’re sorting thyroid and adrenals at the same time - many start on thyroid, spend years trying to make that work to no avail, finally the penny drops about cortisol and then they have to go through the stress of working out how to optimize the adrenals and then go back to the thyroid.

I got my test privately by an endo that had some of the worst admin skills I have ever known so my results took a month and lots of chasing.

The test results will tell you your ACTH (likened to TSH) and your cortisol (likened to FT3 and FT4). So it tests both ends of the signal and tells you where the issue lies if there is one.

The cut off for adrenal insufficiency differs from lab to lab but it’s around 420 and doubling your baseline.

Addison’s is only diagnosed if you have adrenal autoantibodies, I hope that your doctor has had the foresight to organize that with your synacthen.

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

Sorry made same error again re post. See below

[Andie222 in reply to Hollybushroad]

Hello. I’m following your post with great interest as my position is not disimilar to yours. My cortisol is low (now quite as low as yours) and yesterday my NHS suggested a SST. I asked how long the results will take and he said it will be next day. Now if you are going privately then I don’t know where the samples will be sent for testing, but thought it would help you to know that the science process is obviously quite quick, even if the admin isn’t. I’m booked in for next Monday. I don’t suppose you know if it’s okay to take usual thyroid meds before the 9am test.

[Hollybushroad in reply to Andie222]

Hi Andie222Yes I wanted private referral as was very worried about Regenerus results and couldnt wait on NHS referral. Thank you for clarifying re sync test result time scale. It's probably as you say slow admin but will keep chasing it up.

I held off taking my thyroid meds til after test just as a precaution but not sure if it's absolutely necessary.

I hope all ok re your sync test result. Hopefully you will get result more quickly than me. Are you getting a follow up apt with endo to interrupt your results?

I have perhaps niavely thought I could contact endo secretary and get an email or verbal result but it's probably more complex than that and I may have to wait on my next review appt for result.

[Andie222 in reply to Hollybushroad]

Hi. Yes the Endo said he would contact me with results but I don't know how quickly. I think I will contact his secretary. If she is willing/able to supply numbers it might be possible with help of the internet to interpret them. But perhaps I'm being over optimistic. I'm pretty keen to get results asap so I can get on with some sort of treatment. Fed up with feeling tired and endless stressed scratching!I think I will hold off the t4 until after the test just to be on the safe side.

Hope you get your results soon.

[Hollybushroad in reply to Andie222]

Yes the waiting is terrible when you just want answers asap! I also fasted for my sync test but again that's maybe not necessary either as I'm sure the nurse would have asked me that prior to the test. I have always just played it safe anytime I get any bloods done just to be on the safe side😀

[Hollybushroad in reply to Andie222]

I'm meant interpret result not interrupt 😁

[Hollybushroad]

Antibody testing was never mentioned in relation to ??Addisons. I do have hashimotos and sjogrens which would probably put me at increase chance of having another auto immune disease.I'm starting to think now maybe he hasn't emailed me re T3 script as perhaps he's still waiting on sync result first before he proceeds any further. ( Or maybe just his admin is just inefficient)

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

maybe email him and ask if he has done adrenal antibody testing.

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

He definitely hasn't done antibody test. I brought all my most recent blood tests I had done with me through Monitor My Health LabThe only thing that was done following appt was the Syncathen Test

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

if your synacthen test shows blunted adrenal response then adrenal antibody testing will be done, I’m sure.

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

I'm now thinking perhaps the initial baseline blood draw before ACTH inj is automatically tested for antibodies. Nurses didn't mention it.

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

yes let’s hope so

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

U mentioned you are prescribed hydrocortisone...do you have Addisons?

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

I’m still waiting for my adrenal antibodies from a month ago! I don’t know yet ☹️

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

Omg that's an awful wait for you....we are both in limbo then ☹️

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

yes, altho I am more focused on optimizing my adrenal and thyroid now. If I have addison’s it just means I’ll never be able to come off the steroids but it doesn’t make my present moment any different really.

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

Re Paul Robeson's CT3Mbook. I haven't quite got through it all yet but I found he was clear enough in what he said re primary and secondary adrenal insufficiency.....it was just me who perhaps wrongly assumed??? I couldn't possibly have primary AI as after all the 30 yrs of slow progressive symptoms that I wud surely be in the mortuary by now 😕

Just have got particularly worse over past few yrs .

I just found his approach to taking first dose of T3 around 4am quite interesting when cortisol should start to rise which mine obviously doesn't could be something I could consider if starting T3.

Mornings are absolutely horrendous for me...I just can't function but things improve slightly as day progresses.

So it was basically me who interpreted it wrongly if you know what I mean😄

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

Re Paul Robeson's CT3Mbook. I haven't quite got through it all yet but I found he was clear enough in what he said re primary and secondary adrenal insufficiency.....it was just me who perhaps wrongly assumed???

I don’t find him clear about the fact that CT3M would never help primary. But I also just don’t find his writing in his books clear generally, esp. when hypo!

I couldn't possibly have primary AI as after all the 30 yrs of slow progressive symptoms that I wud surely be in the mortuary by now 😕

If it’s autoimmune it could be a slow destruction, the same way most people have thyroid disease for decades before it is discovered, but you mentioned having a high cortisol level on a blood test? This makes it less likely.

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

Yes I was actually going to mention that but didn't want to keep bombarding you with questions. Your information has been very helpful today.Yes I done a medichecks9am blood Cortisol test last month which showed high morning cortisol:

607nmol/L (466-507)

It really surprised me to get a high result as my symptoms I think are definitely more in keeping with low morning cortisol. ( I have had terrible COLD night sweats for over 30 yrs which usually start in around 3-4am. ( Went to GP several times about this over the yrs but no cause found.) It's like my thermostat is broken. Don't particularly sweat much during the day however.

My morning energy and brain fatigue are terrible and my mood is really bad.

So yes it's all really confusing but it never crossed my mind to be honest that I could possibly have primary AI.

I have been swinging between hypo and hyper thyroid over recent yrs and since 2017 ( blood tests confirmed) things have deteriorated further and I was putting everything down to further damage to my thyroid (thus the swings). So maybe it's a complicated mixture of both???

It's never ending 😞

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

It really surprised me to get a high result as my symptoms I think are definitely more in keeping with low morning cortisol.

Blood and saliva measure different things, blood is total and saliva is free and therefore available for use, similar to the values you find on a thyroid panel. I’m tagging humanbean whose knowledge surpasses mine on this, I believe transporter proteins play a pivotal role in this difference.

It's like my thermostat is broken.

This could be adrenal, thyroid or sex hormone related, or even a complex interplay of all of them! The waking at 3-4 is an adrenal red flag for me tho for sure.

It's never ending 😞

I truly understand how you feel, it is overwhelming, frustrating, debilitating, lonely, terrifying and worse. But I have personally found that being methodical and strategic has yielded positive results. It is possible to get out of this with the right medication, support and knowledge.

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

Sorry made same mistake again 😔See below

[Hollybushroad]

Yes I understand about the saliva result is free cortisol and blood is total but I get frustrated that endos don't seem to acknowledge this when considering treatment. The sweats are not menopausal related as I've been experiencing them since my early twenties.

Yes I was on forum yesterday discussing my low cortisol with Humanbean

Like me I assumed she thought if there was anything urgent I would have heard something from endo by now.

That's why I posted re advice on adrenal supports but yes I know what you are saying and will put glandulars on hold until I get further clarification on sync test.

It's just frustrating 😕

I am very grateful for all the great help from all of you on this forum. Much appreciated 😊

[Hidden in reply to Hollybushroad]

Yes I understand about the saliva result is free cortisol and blood is total but I get frustrated that endos don't seem to acknowledge this when considering treatment.

Add it to the list! Many endos are frustrating, negligent, egotistical, ignorant etc. in ways that force places like this forum to exist. If I’d relied on an endo for guidance I’d be still stuck on lithium, anti psychotics, Valium, anti depressants, statins, metformin and whatever else I needed as the damage from hypothyroidism progressed. Unfortunately and unfairly we have to take things into our own hands and work alongside endos to get the best results.

Your high blood cortisol result is a good sign Addison’s is unlikely. Good luck and stay positive where you can - it’s good for your adrenals 😉

[Hollybushroad in reply to Hidden]

Yes completely get what your saying re all those psychotropic meds....very familiar to me. I actually think they have further suppressed my adrenal function as the biology behind antidepressants I think would lower cortisol overtime but I'm no expert by any means!!!I will post my results soon hopefully

Thanks again for all your wisdom and guidance. Much appreciated 😊