I am not sure I can manage this anxiety anymore is it best to take propanadol beta blocker or an anti depressant?
sarah
anxiety : I am not sure I can manage this anxiety... - Thyroid UK
anxiety
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Sarahpoppe232
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SlowDragonAdministrator
Looking at previous post showing high cortisol…..try SMALL dose propranolol (assuming you don’t have asthma)
Has GP prescribed propranolol ?
If so what dose
can’t tolerate propanalol / feeling completely zombified - so now it’s antidepressants or find some other way ? Not sure how much more of this I can hacked and pins and needles in arms - been meditating all day trying to get through it - I have 10 days until my kids are back and I need to be functioning
shall I start T3 ? Really don’t want to be on antidepressants again - just came off last lot 2 months ago as had severe dizziness
if you are going to add T3 reduce dose levothyroxine to 100mcg for 4 days first
5th day add 5mcg T3 with your morning levothyroxine
If that’s ok add 5mcg in late afternoon or early evening
If adding 5mcg is too much try 2.5mcg waking and 2.5mcg in afternoon for first week, before slowly increasing to 2 x 5mcg
Stay on that dose 6 weeks then retest
great thanks - do you think this will help with anxiety ? How will I know if 5 mcg is too much T3 - what will the symptoms be please ?
I think I will have to start the antidepressant today as not fair on my kids when I am so anxious and unable to function -
I don’t want to be on antidepressants but I have tried 2 months not to be and each day has been terrible anxiety etc -
I think if you think the T3 will help anxiety - can’t do propanalol as felt very strange then I will try to not take anti depressants another week but if not I will try both together - I want to go away with my kids and be able to relax at least for an hour here and there ? Sorry to ask so much of you and I really appreciate your time and generosity
With anxiety , eating disorder, thyroid, adrenals/ high cortisol etc it gets so hard but not had an ok day for so any months - i feel I am forced to go back on antidepressants as can’t tolerate propanalol ?
Well I have no experience of antidepressants, other than living with someone who has been on them decades and very definitely can’t function without them.
If antidepressants work for you get back on them.
This crisis seems to have occurred after you stopped antidepressants few weeks/months ago
meanwhile let your thyroid and endocrine system settle and then review thyroid and vitamin levels in 2-4 months
helvellaAdministrator
I'm trying to think how to say this gently and helpfully - but for anxiety you possibly want what they call an anxiolytic.
This is the British National Formulary page for anxiolytics:
bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-s...
However, a number of those options are out of favour with many doctors these days. Largely due to excessive prescribing in the past - and leaving patients with few, if any, other options for support and treatment.
Propranolol has a specific problem to those with thyroid issues - it can reduce the conversion to T4 to T3. Which is why it is usually a preferred choice among beta blockers for those who are hyperthyroid or seriously over-medicated.
Of course, many medicines overlap across categories. Some even get listed under two categories in the BNF. It isn't a hard and fast separation.
the doctor will only prescribe propanadol or antidepressants I have tried sertraline before and it made me feel very numb - I was on Prozac for years but they don’t prescribe it any more and it made me feel dizzy coming off it
My FT3 is only 22 % in range
Do you think it’s worth me trying some T3 before going back on more antidepressants ?
I think replies from members with experience are going to be better than me replying here. I have never taken T3 so would just be quoting others. Better direct from them.
Anxiety is often a hypo symptom, so yes, personally I think it would be worth trying some T3. Anxiety is the first symptom I get when my FT3 is too low. 
ok great my T3 is very low so would love a way out of this without numbing myself wirh antidepressants
The labs said take it at 11 am - how and when do you take T3 ?
Well, I'm not a typical case. I need a high dose of T3 only, and I take it all at once when I get up. But, I think most people split their dose and take half in the morning with their levo, and the other half in the evening or afternoon. But, it's a very personal thing. You have to find out by trial and error when it's best for you to take it.
Just start with 5 mcg (or 6.5, depending on the size of the tablets). And if that goes ok, increase by 5 mcg after about two weeks, and see how it goes.
Hi,Just a bit concerned as to why you can't get Prozac (Fluoxetine) on prescription ? Are you in UK?
I've been getting Prozac (UK - NHS prescription) for a number of years.
Xxx
he said they are not doing new prescriptions for it ? I don’t know why ?
am so anxious it’s so hard to think have taken propanadol for now just to calm down but so you think Diazapan or similar would be better ?
Short term - that does seem to be what the BNF suggests (or similar).
But if your doctor won't prescribe it makes it much more difficult for you.
What size was propranolol
10mg?
Better to take 10mg 3 x day or …as required, than a higher dose
Because you stopped levothyroxine completely (relatively) recently…..cortisol increased to compensate for lack of thyroid hormones
Propranolol will slow uptake and conversion of Ft4 to Ft3…..but when on inadequate dose levothyroxine it can make it “last longer”
I was stuck on propranolol almost 20 years - more on my profile
Are you currently taking any magnesium supplement?
Magnesium is excellent for improving anxiety
Also …..can’t remember if you’re on gluten free diet?
This can also reduce anxiety and may improve gut function and absorption of levothyroxine/vitamins
yes I am on magnesium thanks
I have never had anxiety like this
I have now taken the T3 5 mcg and 10 Propanalol
Yes I have read your profile soubds like quite a journey - ok so I will take proranalol 3 times a day 10 mcg and start the T3
This feels like the right thing to do for now inwill test again in 6 weeks to see how it all is going ?
Personally I would NOT add T3 (yet) as it will very likely suppress TSH
Adding T3 too soon, you might get in even more of a pickle
You can’t expect adrenal levels to settle quickly after some extremely dramatic changes in thyroid dose
….you went from 150mcg levothyroxine per day to taking no levothyroxine at all
Then started back on 100mcg …..then increased to 125mcg
That’s an enormous amount of change in very short while
It’s going to take a while to recover
Slow and steady wins the race
looking through previous posts
Can’t see any iron or ferritin result
See if you can find any recent iron and ferritin results
are they called iron and ferritin or another name ?
Hi,Are they not called Ferritin and Folate? Xx
ok so iron 23.5 in (6.6-26 ) range
so ferritin 74 (13-150)
Iron 23.5 (6.6-26)
how long ago was this test ?
this was 5 weeks ago
so no need to retest ….yet
How many days did you stop levothyroxine completely?
Week….fortnight…month?
I stopped for 3 weeks I would say.
Extremely lucky not to be seriously unwell
26-7 years ago I stopped for 10 days (long story) became extremely unwell …..didn’t manage to walk more than 100 yards for 6 months…took over a year to recover
gosh yea I see what you mean - I had the anxiety before I stopped so this was why I stopped - I also had extreme dizziness also - I felt better initially after stopping so maybe there is a filler I am allergic too
Extremely common to initially feel better if reduce or stop levothyroxine …..because as Ft4 (levothyroxine) levels drop conversion rate of Ft4 to Ft3 improves
But obviously after 10-14 days you then run out of any Ft4 to convert
Anxiety is extremely common hypothyroid symptom
Dizziness often low B12 /low Ft3
Had you started HRT before you stopped Levothyroxine
Very common to need dose increase in levothyroxine after starting HRT you swallow. Blood levels should be retested 6-8 weeks after starting or stopping HRT
Or after changing brands of levothyroxine
yes I am gluten free and trying to go diary free
Diazepam used to be called Valium. It is addictive and people can get withdrawal symptoms from them. Keep your dose as low as possible if you are prescribed it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam
Diazepam is a benzodiazepine and there is a forum where you could get info on adverse effects and withdrawing before you decided to start taking it :
Buddy195Administrator
I’m so sorry that your anxiety symptoms have not eased since your last post. I have taken proprananol beta blockers in the past which helped ease the fast pulse/ palpitations.These work quite quickly, so may be worth trying first, as anti depressants may take a few weeks to have full effect. When my thyroid medication and key vitamins were optimal, I found that I didn’t need the beta blocker.
All good advice but sadly Propranalol does affect T4 / T3 conversion as I’ve learned to my cost.
A great pity as it’s an excellent med for prophylactic treatment of migraine as well as for minor symptoms of anxiety.
so when do you take instead ?
thanks buddy so do you think I should take propanalol and also start the T3 I have it but have not started taking it ?
Don’t start T3 yet
Get settled back on levothyroxine
How long have you been taking 125mcg now
Test full thyroid and vitamins after 6-8 weeks on constant unchanging dose and brand of levothyroxine
Test early morning and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
I have now done unchanging dose and have TSH 0.73, FT4 17.8 - 58 % and FT3 4.1 - 22 %
So if I will take low dose propanalol shall now also start T3 or anyway start T3
My vitamin D is 105 in range of 50-200
Was test done early morning, around 9am, only water between waking and test and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test
You could try small increase in levothyroxine adding another 12.5mcg per day (so cutting an accord tablet in 1/4’s )
…..taking 3/4 of a 50mcg tablet per day - 137.5mcg
Retest in 6-8 weeks
Obviously need to get folate, B12 and ferritin levels tested
When were these last checked
Are you gluten free/dairy free
Or taking any magnesium supplement
hi I was taking 125 levo for 6 weeks - did 9 am test with no levo in the morning
If your anxiety is very heightened then I would also take a small dose of proprananol. Obviously you may need to cut your prescribed tablet in half if the beta blocker makes you feel too sleepy (and you are not able to go to sleep!)
so as my T3 is only 22 % in range shall I start taking T3 and some propanalol for now - need to do something as can’t breathe - I have been on antidepressant before and even though it’s a new one citalapram I really don’t want to be on it again - tool propanalol the other day and felt exhausted by it
I also felt exhausted on proprananol, so only took a small dosage but enough to stop the palpitations/ tremor I was experiencing. My chronic anxiety is 100% thyroid related and only occurs when thyroid medication (I’m on combination treatment) or key vitamins are not optimal/ or I am extremely stressed. However, some people clearly need anti depressants in addition to thyroid medication. If your anxiety symptoms persist once your thyroid medication is optimised, then I would definitely consider anti depressants again (perhaps trialling a different one to before).
As I’ve said elsewhere, sometimes you have to accept that thyroid issues /meds are not the reason for your anxiety.
Helvella is right when he speaks about anxiolytic drugs. Most antidepressants have an anxiolytic effect and are more readily prescribed by GPs than the well known anxiolytics such as benzodiazepines.
I’ve raged against the use of these drugs, but I know when it’s time to give in. They serve a real purpose and are not the evil that’s been portrayed recently.
The abuse of these drugs lies in the fact that doctors prescribe them unnecessarily with no monitoring or review of patients.
So would a benzodiazepines be better for thyroid patient ? I don’t want to be stuck on antidepressants again my T3 is still only 22 % in range so taking propanalol will jaut reduce it even more -
Shall I try propanalol and take the T3 also ? Or shall I go back to doctor and try to get diazapan or shall I start citalipram
Anxiety is crazy - I haVe battled it for 6 weeks and nothing natural is working
It’s doubtful your GP would prescribe Benzos for longer than 4 weeks. They’re for short term anxiety. Very hard to withdraw from - probably more so than ADs.
If your anxiety is short term, you could ask. I was given them when my mum died to ‘get over the hump”. They’re very effective but there is a tendency to require larger and larger doses to achiieve the same effect. That’s when the addiction kicks in.
So would a benzodiazepines be better for thyroid patient ? I don’t want to be stuck on antidepressants again my T3 is still only 22 % in range so taking propanalol will jaut reduce it even more -
Shall I try propanalol and take the T3 also ? Or shall I go back to doctor and try to get diazapan or shall I start citalipram
Anxiety is crazy - I haVe battled it for 6 weeks and nothing natural is working
You have my sympathy. I’ve got a cupboard full of ‘natural’ supplements which are about to be consigned to the bin.
The nearest I came to anything effective was Bach’s Rescue Remedy.
I would steer clear of Propranalol for reasons explained elsewhere in this thread. Anyway, if your anxiety is severe this beta blocker may not help.
so just have results from the NHS Endo and he says reduce levo to 100 as TSH was .48 - I feel so confused now as T3 is still low 22% of range ? He also said my red blood cells are enlarged but he is not planning on doing anything about it - i don’t drink alcohol so what can this be from please ?
I can’t take propanalol as it is making me feel very sleepy and low in mood . So that is that - I was told by nhs endo to reduce levo to 100 - you guys told me to try raising it to 137.5 from 125 so now totally confused again.
SlowDragonAdministrator
Enlarged red blood cells due to
Hypothyroidism
Folate deficiency
B12 deficiency
mayoclinic.org/macrocytosis....
What vitamin supplements are you currently taking
Unfortunately NHS endocrinologist unlikely to think T3 is remotely relevant
yes I saw that article when I goggled it so can be caused by hyperthyroid or liver but endo just said - do you drink alcohol - I said no and that was it - he did not ask anything else and just said it’s all good
Poor you, that isn't good enough is it, NHS endos are often diabetes specialists, if you have the energy to fight I would ask for a second opinion with someone who understands T3. Your FT3 is low, you don't seem to be converting the T4 in Levo to FT3 by yourself, reducing Levo isn't going to help that.
Things you can control are your vitamins, as SD has suggested, getting those more optimal may boost your conversion, it has for me, I am now way over range and also trying reductions to see if that works. Great that you are looking into all this, wishing you well 🌱
how do you check your vitamins - which tests do you do please ? What do you take. Each day ?
I've used Medichecks and Monitor My Health to check vits
To get optimal I took:
Methylated B Complex extra B12 and Folate
Heme Iron to raise ferritin (GP did full iron panel for me so I knew I needed to supplement, check my profile and old posts, I've posted on this in the past, I have fibroids and heavy bleeding which has coincidentally resolved since taking T3.)
Vitamin D with K2 oral spray originally, now using oil drops, both equally good.
Selenium
Magnesium (I started with a body cream and progressed to capsules).
Most recent addition is zinc. I tested this separately with Youth Revisited, seems like a very small company that outsources to bigger labs, but friendly enough, took a bit of prodding to get my result.
Now that my levels are up where they should be I am trying out alternating days for B Complex, and Ferritin, but taking B12 and D3 with K2 daily will test again in 3 months and see how that goes.
Best advice I had from SD in my early days was to only introduce one thing at a time, 2 weeks apart and this helped me pace myself (and with the cost). Based on the blood test results you can then prioritise where you need to spend your energy and hard earned ££.
🌱
I used to be anxious and depressed. Optimising my ferritin (iron stores) eliminated my anxiety and reduced my depression dramatically.
how did you improve your ferritin please ?
My method of raising my iron is rather out of date now. I used ferrous fumarate 210mg, 1 tablet, 3 times a day, with food, which was the only way I could tolerate it.
Several people on the forum are having much greater success with different forms of iron supplement. See these links :
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
If neither of the above products help then you could come back and ask about iron salts (like the ferrous fumarate). The following link is old, but you could keep it in reserve if you get desperate.
helvellaAdministrator
Just been thinking about you.
Are you aware that low vitamin B12 can cause and contribute to anxiety?
This is a link to a search of the Pernicious Anaemia Society forum where I asked fro posts containing the work 'anxiety'. Some will be no help at all. But others might be worth a read?
healthunlocked.com/pasoc/se...
thanks lovely my B12 is strangely high so active b12 is >256 in range 25-165 so not sure it’s this but my body does not methylate so maybe it’s just all getting built up in my body
Can I buy them privately without a blood test result ?
What about folate level?
High B12
Exactly what B vitamins are you currently taking
if NOT supplementing high B12 can be false high
Paradoxical B12 deficiency
b12oils.com/paradoxical.htm...
oh my goodness that is so interesting - I have MTHFR problems and compt gene - the symptoms I have are of b12 insufficiency but my readings are super high
I am currently running some other genetic tests also
So I am taking quite a few suppliements. It’s a bit embarrassing Selenium, CBD oil, magnesium , adb5 plus - b vitamins and folate , l theanine , vitex, progesterone , estradiol, rhodiola, ashwagandha, Nutri advanced liver support- Nac Quercetin, , cortisol regulator , phosphatidylserine , DHEA, methyl B complex and omega 3
Vitamin c , Nac, core biotec , mitochondrial cofactors
I know it’s a lot
So I know I need to cut stuff out but not functioned for 3 months
I was taking adrenal power powder but not now
That’s a lot of supplements
So high B12 likely to this
Just take a good quality vitamin B complex…you don’t need a separate B12 or separate folate as well
l theanine , vitex, progesterone , estradiol, rhodiola, ashwagandha, Nutri advanced liver support- Nac Quercetin, , cortisol regulator , phosphatidylserine , DHEA,
Do you actually know if you need DHEA
Have you done Regenerus Cortisol and DHEA test
regeneruslabs.com/products/...
portal-app.inspira-regeneru...
yes I know it’s a lot - most were prescribed by a functional health practitioner but I can’t afford her anymore so will be going onto just B Vit , magnesium, Vit D, omega.
Is there anyway I can try vitamin b injections just to see if they have an impact ? How do I know if my body is absorbing or is it evident by the reading ?
I don’t think I would get these prescribed unless I give up all supplements and then take another blood test
slowly stop other supplements
Don’t stop everything at once
Only ever start or stop any supplements one at a time
If you want help with b12 injections / testing you might want to come over to the pernicious anemia group healthunlocked.com/pasoc
You can always go get an injection at a health spa but if you have some sort of functional deficiency, just 1 won't solve the problem, and a blood test won't give many answers if your levels are already high. Have you had a standard serum b12 test, besides the active test?
I was prescribed DHEA by Marion Gluck clinic - the HRT clinic
So do you think I should try T3 without antidepressants for a few weeks or start antidepressants for a few months and then try T3 ?
I am sort of stuck in the house as not feeling like I can see anyone with this anxiety
Only you can choose
But only try one thing at a time
thank you
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