I'll add the contents underneath, quite surprised to come across it over here as I thought DHEA was banned or class C controlled?
Interesting study link below also
Has anyone tried Energy Multi-Plex? It has a li... - Thyroid UK
Has anyone tried Energy Multi-Plex? It has a little 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone (from DHEA) and is available over here...
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TiggerMe
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I was reading this about it.... which has a very interesting conclusion sciencedirect.com/science/a...
Which I think is the study referred to here?... thyroiduk.org/related-condi...?
3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone (what the label seems to call 7-keto-DHEA) is not the same as DHEA!
That is why it is not illegal in the UK.
But one site which appears to claim some UK credentials does what many do - actually operates abroad.
Of course, that means coming through customs. Which is a risk - but does that risk fall on you - or them?
What do you make of the way they list the ingredients by clumping them together in a 'complex' so not actually specifying individual amounts?
It stinks.
The convention for foods is that ingredients are listed in descending order of quantities. This is clearly not so here even for those listed individually (the first few ingredients are in the opposite of that order!
We do see similar in foods - e.g. listing baking powder, followed by its ingredients in descending order - and within some sort of brackets. Indeed, you can sometimes see the same individual ingredient listed multiple times because it is present in two or more 'collective' ingredients.
But in this case, I suggest it is done as it is so that potential customers can make assumptions - and hoping those are to the benefit of the manufacturer. You cannot know the quantities and can only guess. And I'd always assume the cheapest is in the greatest quantity.
Revital have removed it from their site... 🤷♀️
Interesting. But it appears to solve the question of whether or not to purchase it!
That's the second time we've discussed something on here and there has been a reaction... 🕵️♀️ coincidence?
If I were in commerce (such as a supplement vendor), I'd set up continuous Google (or other) alerts looking for any mention of my company. Whether just to count the number (thus assessing awareness and how well campaigns work, etc.) - or on the lookout for both significantly negative and significantly positive mentions.
I don't think Revital have done anything really awful - not really in a place to judge - but poor choice of a product to offer might well be flagged up.
I forget that everything is monitored somewhere these days, thank goodness we are anonymous... though that is naive of me... no doubt they have the ability to track us down 😕
If you saw the multiple identities I use...
Bought something yesterday so set up a masked email address - the company can email me, my email client sees it, but if I want, I can turn it off in a few seconds.
Thus, to a significant extent, I can use a different user name and contact details for every organisation.
Just wish I could do similarly for my means of payment and phone number - and there are often ways - but too much effort or cost.
And I don't have anything other than any ordinary citizen has to hide. Simply, I don't want anyone to have access to everything.
This is why I wish HealthUnlocked would make stronger attempts to advise people to use names that are nothing to do with their real names when signing up here. Or, if they have made that mistake, point out they can change the name once. (Or sign up afresh with a new name.)
I always had you down as a secret agent hiding in a 🍄😏
I'm incredibly dull but it is discombobulating when you stop to think about it
It does surprise me how many people us their name and often date of birth 🤷♀️
As I see it, we are both right about 7-keto!
It is in the schedule of Class C - but the page says it is draft not yet an SI!
Draft Legislation:
This is a draft item of legislation and has not yet been made as a UK Statutory Instrument.
Amendments to the 1971 Act
3. In Part 3 of Schedule 2 to the 1971 Act (which specifies the drugs which are subject to control under that Act as Class C drugs)—
(a)in paragraph 1(a)—
(i)omit “Pipradrol”; and
(ii)after “Bromazepam”, insert—
“7-bromo-5-(2-chlorophenyl)-1,3-dihydro-2H-1,4-benzodiazepin-2-one.”;
(b)in paragraph 1(b)—
(i)after “3-Hydroxy-5α-androstan-17-one.”, insert—
“7-Hydroxy-dehydroepiandrosterone.
7-Keto-dehydroepiandrosterone.”; and
(ii)after “Oxymetholone.”, insert—
“Pipradrol.”.
legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/20...
Screenshot of legal amendment
I thought 7 keto sounded better than DHEA which is likely to mess with sex hormone levels?
This is from the TUK page...
What about 7-keto DHEA?
7-keto DHEA is produced from DHEA but is not converted to steroid hormones when taken orally.12 However, when used on the skin, it has been shown to affect hormone levels in men.13 7-keto-DHEA is often taken to speed up metabolism and weight loss as well as increase the activity of the thyroid gland, boost the immune system, enhance memory, and slow aging14 as well as to treat depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).15,16 One randomized, placebo-controlled research study on dieting and exercising healthy overweight individuals found 7-keto DHEA significantly increased body-weight loss and fat-loss.17 Studies show that it was well tolerated in normal healthy men at doses up to 200 mg/d for up to 8 weeks although it might cause mild side effects such as nausea, dizziness, or low blood pressure in some people.18 Not enough is known about the use of 7-keto DHEA during pregnancy and breast-feeding so it’s best to avoid it.19 Be aware that the World Anti-Doping Association has classed 7-keto DHEA as a prohibited anabolic agent 20,21 and the UK class DHEA as a CLASS C controlled drug.22 When ordering online you may have your DHEA or 7-keto DHEA seized by customs.
For more support check out our online community:
Date updated: 09/03/22 (V1.7)
Review date: 09/03/22
I'm looking on the Revital site which I believe is UK based?
revital.co.uk/products/rese...
Yes - they do appear to be genuinely UK.
I don't see why the anti-doping decision would mean customs seizing it - even if bought from abroad.
But if the Amendments to the 1971 Act gets enacted, then 7-keto would trigger customs. (Though I can see the scope for customs making mistakes.)
I have not read enough to make any comments on what it does or why it might be better.
Thanks 🍄 I stumbled across it whilst discussing another multiplex that had been recommended for adrenal support, though it didn't contain 7 keto.
Interesting that when tested on men it showed improvement to fT3 levels without effecting TSH or fT4 🤷♀️
I looked at one of the American sites last night and they won't ship these products to UK though other products they will.... so presumably they've been snagged by customs in the past?
I was looking at DHEA or 7 keto cream which seems a better route?
When I was seeing my hormone doctor, many years ago, he prescribed DHEA for me. It didn't agree with me because it all converted to testosterone! So, he said to try the 7 keto, which didn't do that. Only it did. So, I couldn't take that, either!
Maybe that's the reason they haven't tested it on women as it behaves differently and blows their sales pitch? 😕
I do already top up my flagging testosterone... what was your hormone Dr hoping it would do for you?
I had very low DHEA on testing, he thought it should be higher, that's all. It was at the same time as I was taking HydroCortisone because my adrenals were flagging. He's one of the rare doctors that believes in Adrenal Fatigue.
Interesting.... from what I can see higher DHEA can mean lower cortisol which I certainly don't need!
Well, mine were both low. 🤷♂️
I can't see anywhere that suggests raising DHEA will have a good effect on cortisol levels?
I'm not sure it does.
I assumed there was some link as they give results for both with the saliva test 🤷♀️
Well, I'm not an expert but I took it that they tested the two together in order to assez adrenal function. I can only surmise that if both are low it indicated that the low cortisol is caused by a problem with the adrenals, but if only cortisol is low then it could be the pituitary at fault. But, I could be very wrong! 
Would be interesting to know whether the benefits extend equally to men and women.
Thanks for posting this info, I’m very interested to find out what this supplement can (or can’t) do for non existent DHEA and unmeasurable testosterone. On instructions from my private Endo, my GP prescribed Tostran gel but the pharmacy said they couldn’t get it so it was substituted for Testovan which makes me nauseous and dizzy. It contains propylene glycol which has known side effects of nausea and dizziness.
I hope you don’t mind me asking but, as I’ve read that you use Testogel, I wonder if you could tell me what the actual prescription states and the excipients in that gel so I can ask my GP to prescribe that instead. My muscle fatigue and wastage is debilitating and is having a marked affect on the rest of my health. If you could do that for me it would be greatly appreciated.
Sounds like DHEA would suit your needs as it raises testosterone and estrogen levels where as 7-Keto so say doesn't? This is something you can be prescribed though you have less control over what it might become.... I'm quite happy using the individual hormones.... my DHEA is below range a 91 (106-300)
I've been happy on Testogel which is 1% where as I think Tostran and Testavan are 2% so you would only use every other day?
Testogel
This is how it shows on my prescription... 1 sachet lasts 7-8 days so a petit pois sized splodge 🤗
Script
Many thanks for the info. My Regenerus cortisol test came back sub optimal with my DHEA <10 (10 being the lowest measurement) my GP at that time tried to diagnose me with CFS over the phone when I told him about my muscle weakness I hadn’t actually seen for 2 years at that point. We had a bit of a “ding dong” over the phone and he referred me back to NHS Endo. That was a total waste of time because when I asked him about my non existent DHEA he said “well, that would mean you taking steroids and “we” don’t want that” so consequently, my muscle weakness has turned into muscle wastage. He also said it would be going against endocrine rules to prescribe me T3 as my FT3 wasn’t below mid range. He needs extra maths lessons as my FT4 was at the top of the range and my FT3 was 43%. That Endocrinology department is a total joke. Of course, it’s all down to money.
I’ll have a look at the Testogel ingredients and chance my arm at a new prescription. Thanks
Hmmm.... I get to see the Endo next week 🙄who knows which way that conversation might go... I did send the results of my cortisol/DHEA saliva test which got me a blood cortisol test request... so we shall see 🤞
No, I can imagine 'we' don't want you on steroids because that means far too much cost and involvement in your care 😕
You may find testogel a little kinder as not so potent 🤗
Hope all goes well for your appointment, I hope you get all you ask for - I've given up on the NHS and now "go private". Oh yes, treating me with what I need costs way too much money and effort. That would mean me being "still on their list" and the only reason they pushed me into RAI was to get rid of me but that's another story.
Hopefully, Testogel will be kinder, of course, I was told to rub a full pump on to my upper arm every other day, it took about 20 mins to rub the damn stuff in and another 10/14 days for the side effects to dwindle 😂
Thanks... I'm actually not expecting great things but I know what I'll refuse! 😆
It does sound like you ought to have a very deep voice and beard with that much gloop 🤣 petit pois size is your next aim! 🤗
I think my GP expects me to use a sachet every day!! 🙄clueless
Gingernut44,
So your endo won’t acknowledge non existent DHEA or prescribe much needed T3, but the pharmacy substituted a totally unsuitable replacement testosterone at several times over the recommended female dose. Dear god!
One pump of 2% Testavan is well over 20mg and all the blurb states not recommended for females. The usual three unlicensed prescribed for females in UK are Testogel, Testim and Tostran used at around 5mg a day.
Mine is prescribed the same as Eeyore's, being a 40.5mg Testogel sachet to last 8 days. This means a box of 30 should last 45 weeks (yes, nearly a year).
I'd never heard of Testavan which is what intrigued me to look... like you say being 2% it is more on a par with the old 50mg 1% sachets of Testogel which used to last 10 days 😳 I'm amazed the pharmacist handed it over!
Though I suppose nowadays they can't question which sex you are 🙄
Eeyore,
I'm amazed the pharmacist handed it over too as prescriptions are supposed to double checked.
I only know all the names because am now taking testosterone, and anything I take or is recommended I have to perform in-depth investigations as have this need to know everything!
My husband always says my curiosity will get me into trouble. I hope so 🤣
Oh me too! I question and research everything... hence this post 😅
I like to know exactly the whys and wherefores for everything... especially if it's going into my body! Look before you leap 🤗
The difference is you retain the information whereas once I have satisfied my curiosity into something the research mostly seeps out of my brain to make room for the next study 😕 I need to upgraded my memory storage!
Mine doesn't have an inquisitive mind at all!
🤣🤣😂
I had to go and look this up... so you are using 1 pump = 23mg which is the starting dose for a man and you are rubbing it on your arm as well which is for men! Honestly some GP's are idiots!!! They do have guidance on these products when prescribing off license 🙄
There are no female licensed makes of testosterone in the UK for women so no dosing instructions in the packets hence the need to use 1 sachet of Testogel 40.5mg and make it last 8 days... if I used a whole sachet I would likely feel nauseous, dizzy and turn into the Incredible Hulk too!
You should be aiming for a daily dose of 5mg and ideally you want to rub it somewhere with less hair follicles so radd and I are competing for the hairiest butt cheek... join the Butt club rather than the Chewbacca club 🤗
Haha ha … hairy bum!
Eeyore, I’m presently sticking my dogs hairs onto extra large plastic feet as going to a LOTR’s wedding soon. I envisaged myself as a lithe & beautiful elfin princess but have somehow been allotted a female hobbit role. Maybe I should just moon 🤣.
I’ve just read your post and I’m sure that same rules apply to 7 keto-DHEA as DHEA in the UK. I know that product has been reformulated for the UK as have read it on numerous sites, and no I haven’t tried either the new or the old formulation - nice ingredients though 😍.
My repeat testosterone prescription has also been set up for a monthly need. As you say …. clueless 🙄. In spite of no discussion with myself, endo has stated in a letter to my GP (cc’d to myself) that he will be prescribing DHEA if mine is still low. (GP has agreed to do all testing atm as I’ve paid out so much recently). I actually doubt DHEA is now low as feel good, and unless GP can take on the prescription NHS style, I’m not paying any more on top of expensive sups & NDT as its killing me.
We won’t die from our illnesses but the stress of trying to fund the meds and sups designed to keep us well! Onwards & upwards for the hairy bum brigrade 😬
I went to a lotr forest weding as a huntsmen
Haha sounds brilliant... I can supply dog hair if yours are now bald.... we'll await the hobbit mooning pic 😆
The new formulation is a bit under par and would just add the herbal element... so I'll just as well stick with what I'm on... like you say supplements are probably nearing £100 a month habit! Before adding in tests ☹️
That's interesting that DHEA has been mentioned, though behind your back... the trouble is you don't know what it's going to become... where as at least if you rub testosterone on your bum and estrogen on your arm you know your dose, rather than the prospect of a whole lot more testing for DHEA with fluctuations and then the risk of them interfering each time... we are all sick to death of blood test hoop jumping!!
Fantastic that you are feeling the benefits 👏🥳
TiggerMe and radd just thought I would update you on this thread. I’ve managed to track down 1 box of Testogel at the pharmacy who “kindly” supplied me with Testovan so now I have to get my Dr to write a new prescription. Hopefully, I’ll soon be joining the hairy bum club - good job I didn’t intend to wear my thong on the beach this year 😉
To be fair (not like me) my Dr prescribed Tostran, it was the pharmacy who said they couldn’t get it so I was to ask for a new prescription for Testovan 😱. It was the Prescription Clerk at the Surgery who submitted the new prescription so probably the Dr didn’t know - I’m giving him the benefit of doubt this time 😊
Let’s hope this works.
Tostran is a 2% so they only swapped like for like…. It’s the fact they didn’t tell you NOT to use as per the PIL was the worry 🫣
We will welcome you to the Butt club 🤗… I’ve yet to sprout 🤣
😂😂😂
You could use the Tostran until they get you the Testogel BUTT 😉 you'd only need half a petit pois a day 🤗 which might be tricky with a big squirty thing unless you can take it apart?
Good thinking Batman. I tried half a “squirt” but that was too much so I tried half a half of a squirt but the darn squirt comes out so fast 😂😂 I might just go for it and just use a petits pois portion, the rest can go in the bin.
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