I know multivitamins aren’t a good idea but I have an elderly friend who’s elderly sister is in hospital and hasn’t been eating well for four weeks. She’s sleeping all the time and her none-too-young children are exhausted from travelling miles three times a day to feed her
I suggested asking her doctor for permission to try some supplements but knowing that several a day isn’t practical and in any case would probably not get granted permission, if there’s a good quality multivit out there with as few excipients as possible, does anyone know of it or perhaps one that does at least contain mineral and vitamins that don’t interfere with each other
Thank you
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Noelnoel
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A multi that didn't have ingredients that didn't interfer with each other wouldn't contain very much. There are so many interactions:
- iron needs to be taken at least two hours away from everything else except vit C
- B12 cannot be taken with vit C
- magnesium and zinc should be kept well apart
- calcium and iron will bind together so you won't absorb either of them
So, that would leave you with just the B vits, magnesium, vit D (which also needs vit K2-MK7 which most multis don't contain) vits A and E, and very little else. I don't think anyone dose a semi-multi like that.
Maybe if she could take different things on different days, that might be a solution:
Day 1; B complex (Thorne Basic B)
Day 2: vit D, magnesium, vit K2-MK7
Day 3: iron and vit C
Day 4: zinc and copper...
But, to be honest, I wouldn't want to give her anything much unless she's had her levels checked first. Too much of anything would be bad for her. I don't understand why hospitals are so lax about these things! They just don't understand the importance of nutrition. They should be dealing with all this for her. No point filling her full of drugs if she's going to die of malnutrition! It makes me so cross!
Yes, what you say is what I know but I thought anything(!), something(!) might be better than nothing
It’s beyond stupidity that they don’t recognise the importance of nutrition and that’s why I have a lot of mistrust for the medical profession because of course they know the importance of it but prefer to pedal pharmaceuticals
Her family understands that it’s important for her to eat well each day but don’t quite get that she would need several supplements to cover her deficits because one of them quite rightly said: well that’s daft, all of us mix up our food with different things all the time. Who has time to separate this from that on a daily basis. And I have to say, he echoes my own thoughts. However, I have the time to follow the advice on her and so I do but I fear that for this dear person, time isn’t on her side
Well, I don't really think that anything is better than nothing where multis are concerned. It really seems like such a waste of money. Yes, she might get something out of it, but would it be what she needs? Bit of a shot in the dark. And, also, the quantities of things are too small to cover a deficit. At best they give NDR - which is not enough for someone lacking in something - but they don't always give even that. It's like trying to fill a bucket with a hole in it. But, I do understand what you mean. And I wish I could suggest something helpful, but I really can't.
Do the family take her home-cooked food? Or are they trying to get her to eat hospital food? Last time I was in hospital, I found the food totally unsuited to my situation: soup that I couldn't eat due to my trembling hands, meat that I didn't have the strength to cut, let alone chew! And that's without taking into consideration my likes and dislikes where food is concerned.
Well, I wouldn't take it - B12 + vit C, for one thing. Folic acid instead of methylfolate for another.
B 9 ...... L-5- Methyltetrahydrofolate
Does it contain this? It doesn't give an amount so I assume it doesn't. And, why would you have both folic acid and methylfolate? Weird.
And, on a personal note, bioperine does not suit me.
I very much doubt it does anything for the immune system. You can get all this from food, and more is not better. And, if you do have a deficiency, then there's not enough of anything to treat it. Just another multi cashing in on people's insecurities.
Our body is equipped with acquiring multiple vitamins from a pill just as it is from the various foods we eat together from our plate.
The usual concerns involving multivitamin pills are high amounts of cheaper binding ingredients (eg calcium, magnesium, etc) and insufficient amounts of the more expensive in treating a deficiency (eg Vit B12).
However, it is short-sighted to condemn all multivits when the better quality contain combos scientifically proven to work together enhancing benefits (like our foods) and act as a great top-up.
Your supplement is a high end combo that uses latest research and has no binding ingredients. The beta glucon is proving helpful in many areas (balancing blood sugars, directly enhancing the immune system by binding to immune receptors, reducing bad cholesterol, etc) providing a wealth of nutrients including folic acid in different forms, ie methyltetrahydrofolate, tetrahydrofolate, etc.
This variety accommodates everybody as full potent methyl supports are not always required even with MTHFR impairments, making it easy to over methylate with supports that increases risk of disparities in other pathways!
Once my own nutrient deficiencies were optimised I switched to a multivit pill, and taken for several years it has maintained all levels. I think your supplement is great!
yes , i thought it looked pretty ok.. ( and wouldn't you know it , they've just changed the formulation,, taken all the B's out and added loads of tumeric .. darn it ... i've emailed them and dropped in there's 130,000 members on here who thought the original looked promising lol ,,, doubt it will do any good , so ... i've just been to sainsbury's and bought the original stock with a use by of 11/2024 cos me and my daughter like it )
one day i'll have to get my head round whatever methylation/ MTHFR is all about ...
Then I recommend reading is Dirty Genes by Ben Lynch or watching his YouTube vids. Unfortunately he is another who has profiteered from selling very expensive supplements but we don't have to buy them to gain from his knowledge 😊
radd, not sure you saw my previous request for the name of a brand of multivit. Would you mind sharing the make of the one you take that maintains your levels? Would make life a lot easier to take it now that my levels are optimal
I didn’t answer because I tend to swop brands about and the multivitamin I’m presently taking is the result of a recent LifecodeGx methylation report (amongst other tests) carefully chosen to boost Vit A and choline.
Having supplemented methyl versions for years the practitioner said I was over methylating at the expense of other pathways. This is a common problem with people taking supplements they doubt wholly understand 😬. She has chosen Seeking Health Multivitamin One (MF) Methylation Free for me, which is ironic because Seeking Health brand was the front runners of methylation support being introduced by Ben Lynch (king of methylation) way before his time, and I’m paying over the odds for the methyl-free version! 🙄.
Over the years I have tried all levels of sups from Pure Encapsulations and Life Extensions to Lamberts. I think it a case of buying for the ingredients as opposed to sticking with one brand although much of mine is Allergy Research Group, Jarrows, NOW, but anything from mid range brands like Biocare, Moss, Thorne will be good.
I have used Seeking Health before (usually Vit C) and shall stick with it for a while to see if I feel any different and if not resort back to something like tatty is using that looks great. The low cost reflects the low amounts which are perfectly adequate when we have rectified gut absorption issues and can gain most nutrients from our foods.
High dose individual sups should only be used for an actual deficiency and not ongoing use as many on this forum advocate. Also methyl version used with care. I’m also of the opinion that unless in throws of unmanaged Hashi, then low amounts of iodine should be tolerable (even beneficial?) and this opens the door for wider choice.
I can only take sups without iron as have overload but iron is one of the classic binders, so imho I think everyone aiming to take large amounts of iron should take as a separate supplement anyway.
Your want to help this old lady is commendable and any low dose multivit is unlikely to do harm and only good, but also likely not 'enough good' as it would be prudent to assume there are nutrient deficiencies. However you can't supplement for these without testing and there is the conundrum.
Haha. I appreciate any answer, so thank you for taking the time to do so
Interesting to hear what you say about methylated supplements. Other than thinking they were preferable, at least initially when all my levels were low, I didn’t understand a whole lot more
The ones I found for the lady in hospital are food-based so my thinking was that they might be better or more easily absorbed/tolerated, presuming her gut function is reasonable
Here’s the one I found and in light of what you say, because my nutrients have been optimal for a while I’m considering it or something like it for myself now because oh! How much easier on my life and pocket! Iron is over range due to guzzling Metabolics liquid iron so I may have to wait till I’m at least back within range (and btw, it’s taking a long time to fall) before I start it as it contains iron, albeit only 2.5mg
Would be interested in your thoughts on it in general but also, I wonder if such a small amount of iron would impact absorption of anything else within the composition
Oh, I like Garden of Life stuff. This looks great and folate from organic food blend is the new way to go! but I wouldn't take more iron if you are already over range.
2.5mg is more than a quarter of your daily intake for women over 50, and I can’t comment on when/how degradation begins regarding other nutrients because I don't know. I suspect low amounts are ok as so many respectable brands include a little but maybe have a more profound binding effect the more thats included 🤷♀️. Why don't you put a new post up asking others? Maybe someone will post some research.
After our previous discussion, here is an example of someone posted this morning who may not necessarily need methyl forms.
had a reply from Vitl re. the new formulation of that 'Immune Support' supplement.
"Hey there!
Thanks once again for getting back to me!
So, the immune support you are looking for is still available via our website. The new formula (without vitamins B6 and 12) is only sold in shops like Sainsbury's at the moment.
Would you be interested in ordering via our online shop and also share that link in the forum, highlighting that if they want this exact formula, they can shop it from our website? 😊
Well, 2% of the country are meant to be hypo with over 13% of post menopausal women, so if they have a good size workforce of over 50’s, then there’s a good chance someone is low in thyroid hormone, and you will have done them a favour.
Inall probability yes but highly unlikely enough of what she needs
Yes, they do take home cooked food but they come from miles and it’s often cooled somewhat and less palatable. She’s eats a little and then gives up. I remember going through the same with my father. Sometimes he’d vomit it back up. So disheartening. Anyway, they’re trying and it helps them feel better so giving a multivit could help a little. Don’t see what else they can do really
I would have thought the hospital would at least be giving this poor woman some sort of meal replacement drinks containing essential nutrients or whatever?
They’ve gone for this on the premise it’s food-based and might be more readily absorbed and utilised. Like gg said, multivitamins’ composition is often/always wrong and the dosages inadequate but as this is only 2.5mg iron hopefully it won’t interfere too much and yes, some of the dosages are woefully low
I believe they’ve gone for the 30 capsules on amazon at £25
I didn't see your reply above because you didn't click on the 'Reply' button under my post, so I wasn't notified.
I've now commented on the post RedApple linked to.
And, she has a point, RedApple . Why don't the family take her some sort of meal replacement drinks containing essential nutrients? That would be doing something useful, better than multi-vit pills.
I forgot to address that part of your question Red and in any case didn’t know the answer. I’ve now asked her sister. Staff have offered all sorts of flavours but the smell makes her retch and then she refuses to eat anything at all afterwards. Understandably
Find out what her favourite / currently tolerable foods and flavours are and make smoothies. Any nourishment is better than nothing and smoothies might be easier to tolerate than knife and fork food.
I suggested this but the texture wasn’t right. They’re persevering because it’s a good idea, so thank you
I tried this with my dad unsuccessfully but he was a difficult one to crack. With him my “fussing” annoyed him. He just wanted to be left alone but we all persevered and eventually got him into a fit enough state to be discharged
We let my Dad pretty much live on Hagen-Das Vanilla ice cream for a few months because it was all he fancied, and try as we might we couldn't get him to eat more than a few peas if we cooked him anything ... dunno how that would work in hospital though , needs easy access to a freezer and a teaspoon.. it did keep him alive and hydrated though (and relatively happy)
Nice story. That would be my choice too. Pralines and cream. Rich and way too sweet but I can’t help myself. It’s all or nothing as far as haagen is concerned. I stay away from it for months and months then I buy a tub and eat the lot in one go. No, I never feel sick, just sated and then I leave it alone again for months
Oh dear. That is unfortunate. But I do understand how she feels - been there, done that. I was extremely mal-nourished when I left hospital (discharged myself!) and lost all my hair not long after. But, nobody in the hospital seemed to care in the least about that.
Actually, all I wanted to eat was fruit. Don't know why. But we only got fruit for lunch, no other time of the day! God it was awful.
Possibly. But, normally, I don't want to eat fruit at all. I was eating masses of water melon, which normally I dislike. So, yes, there must have been something in it that I needed. The body is a wonderful thing. It knows what it needs. We just have to listen to it.
It’s perhaps a similar/same mechanism that makes us thirsty. Unfortunately, by the time we experience thirst we’re already dehydrated, ergo (possibly), by the time we crave melon for example, as you did, our bodies are already considerably depleted in Vit A or potassium or folate or any number of nutrients present in melon
A design flaw(?) or are there warning signs we don’t notice or choose to ignore before we reach deficiency or dehydration. Most (very) probably
Where is the evidence that says todays scientifically proven combination vitamin supplements are ‘a bad idea’?
I think some members still refer to ranges equivalent to the old Holland and Barrett or those effervescent miracle drinks, but things have moved on big time.
Good question radd and I have to admit to seeing none. I also have to admit to accepting the advice on here regarding this particular question, without due diligence. This is unlike me but in my defence I saw no harm in separating them
I for one would love to pop as few pills as possible so if you have any examples (preferably food-based but not exclusively) I’d be very grateful. Thank you for asking the question
My elderly neighbour was in a care home and over 90 at the time was hospitalised with pneumonia, refusing to eat they basically sent her back to the care home to expire saying there was nothing more to be done. Her niece bought some fruit flavoured vitamin and protein drinks which she liked and drank, she pulled through and went on for another couple of years.
Cannot remember what they were called but they are often prescribed by doctors for people with stomach/ digestion problems as a friends daughter was when a teenager before being diagnosed with IBS. I think most chemists sell them, from memory they are quite small around 250ml or less in a plastic bottle the relatives GP or a pharmacist should be able to advise them, they are not some quack diet or latest craze fix but a tried and tested supplement that have been around for at least 20 years. I hope this helps.
Thank you thyreoidea, good to know, I’ll pass this on to them. I imagine something fruity might be more palatable than those paste-like milky ones that make her retch
I would go to Boots or another reputable pharmacy to ensure no fad supplement or diet shake is sold to them, the ones I mentioned are often prescribed by GP's. I hope they can help their relative to revive as with my neighbour it sounds the same, sleeping all the time and loss of interest and a malaise sets in.
P.S I think they came with a straw but not 100% on this.
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