questions about levels

[Denny39]

does your thyroid go back to how it was before you started taking meds, when you stop the meds? Thanks

[greygoose]

Eventually, yes, it picks up where it left off. Why do you ask?

[Denny39 in reply to greygoose]

I was subclinical and since I started the meds I have been worse than before. So I am to start where I was at the beginning and then work fromThere.

[greygoose in reply to Denny39]

So, are you saying you are going to stop your levo? And what are you doing to do then? I don't really understand what you're saying.

If you've been worse since starting levo, it's probably because you're on too low a dose. How much are you taking?

[Denny39 in reply to greygoose]

I was taking 25mg levothyroxine but increased to 50mg for one week. I felt ok but still fatigued. The doctor then suggested I try NDT armour due to the fatigue, so he started me on 15mg on a morning and 15mg on a lunch time. I took this for only 7 days and stopped the levo like he said. After day 5 on this medication I had sickness, diarrhoea, confusion, anxiety and agitation. He told me to stop and go back on a Low dose of levo. I got my blood results and t3 was 3.17 t4 was 15.99 and my TSH was 6.59. Before I took the NDT armour my TSH was 3.60 so it doubled on the NDT armour. Not sure why? I have not recovered from all of this and it’s day 7 and I still have sickness, diarrhoea and terrible anxiety and I feel like I’m losing myMind. I’ve lost a stone and I don’t have any weight to lose. I am out of the country at the moment and going to go to a & e once I am back home. I did seek medication advise abroad but they just put it down to gastro wanted to put iv fluid in my wrist for fluids and have ended up collapsing the vein. So I now have another problem to resolve.

[greygoose in reply to Denny39]

Well, it does sound more like gastro that side-effects of Armour.

But, honestly, your doctors has absolutely no idea what he's doing! He should have started you on 50 mcg, not 25. And, he hardly gave it any time to do its job, changing after only one week. And, ironically, he started you on too much Armour! He hasn't a clue!

I got my blood results and t3 was 3.17 t4 was 15.99 and my TSH was 6.59.

What were you taking when you had this test done? Or is this before you started thyroid hormone replacement?

Have you had your nutrients tested: vit D, vit B12, folate, ferritin?

[Denny39 in reply to greygoose]

The above numbers were 7 days after taking the NDT armour. I had them blood tests done abroad. Prior to taking the NDT armour, I was on 25mg levo and my numbers were t3 4.1 t4 15.8 and TSH 3.9. Since taking NDT armour my levels have got worse. Do you know when the gastro symptoms will settle now I have not took the NDT armour for 6 days? I was only on it for 7 days but it has made a big impact toMy life. And will the anxiety settle? I feel like I am dying since trying the NDT armour. And I am scared to go back on Levo now as my anxiety is through the roof and I feel like I’m going mad. Thanks for your help and support

[greygoose in reply to Denny39]

Do you know when the gastro symptoms will settle now I have not took the NDT armour for 6 days?

Well, it depends if it was the NDT causing the gastro symptoms - I tend to think it maybe wasn't. But, if it was the NDT, depends what it was in the NDT that caused them. NDT contains T4 and T3 and fillers. If it was the T4, then it will possibly take two or three weeks. If it was the T3 or the fillers, then it will be quicker.

All in all, it's impossible to say because there are too many variables.

NDT doesn't suit everyone, but you hardly took it long enough to find out if it suited you - same for levo.

will the anxiety settle?

There again, depends what's causing it. Anxiety can be a hypo symptom, and you are definitely hypo at the moment. So if that's causing it, it will go when your thyroid hormone levels rise. But, one thing is certain: you are NOT going mad.

And I am scared to go back on Levo now as my anxiety is through the roof

But, taking levo is the way to get rid of the anxiety, if it is a hypo symptom. The levo didn't cause it. Problem is, your doctor started you on too low a dose, so I hope this time he's started you on 50 mcg. But, you have to stay on it for long enough to allow it to work. Keeping chopping and changing is just going to make things worse.

[Denny39 in reply to greygoose]

Thank you for all of that.

When I was abroad at one point I felt that poorly I went to the hospital and they collapsed a vein in my wrist when trying to give me iv fluids. Do you know the outcome for this? Will it heal? Thanks

[Denny39 in reply to greygoose]

I am low vit d and I have been taking a supplement for 6 months. Apart from that a little low on vit b12. But he said NDT armour would be good for me - obviously not. Do you think I will have any permanent effects for taking it for 7 days? I’ve been off it for 6 days now and still unwell from it.

[greygoose in reply to Denny39]

Good that you're taking vit D - it's a mistake to start NDT when nutrients are sub-optimal - but are you taking it's cofactors: magnesium and vit K2-MK7? Vit D won't do much for you without magnesium.

If your vit B12 is low, then you should be supplementing that. How low is low?

No, I do not think you will have any permanent effects from taking NDT for 7 days. Even if it were the cause of your problems, which I very much doubt. And the proof of that is that you've been off it for six days and things haven't improved. They would have improved if NDT had been the cause.

[Jazzw in reply to Denny39]

Denny39, any NDT in your system will be pretty much gone—I honestly don’t think it had anything to do with your diarrhoea and sickness. You were only on half a grain—30mg. 4.5mcg T3, 19mcg T4. Incredibly unlikely for that to have done very much at all.

Your doctor really doesn’t seem to know what he is doing. Where in the world are you? There are very very few doctors who’d switch you to NDT after only a week on a very low dose of levothyroxine - are you sure you’re seeing a doctor rather than a quack?

[Denny39 in reply to Jazzw]

Dr <redacted doctor name> he is called if you Google him, he is an endo in London. Do you know what is wrong with me and why I am so poorly?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK in reply to Denny39]

Please do NOT post names of doctors on the forum.

This is against the forum guidelines.

[Denny39 in reply to helvella]

Sorry I didn’t realise this.

[Jazzw]

I’m a bit confused Denny39. Who started you on 25mcg levothyroxine in the first place? Was that your NHS GP? Or did a private GP prescribe that?

[Denny39 in reply to Jazzw]

It was nhs. Can I ask you the reason you ask? Thanks

[SlowDragon Administrator]

You were started on 25mcg levothyroxine

Dose should have been increased after 6-8 weeks….but were left too long at 6 months on just 25mcg levothyroxine

Next step should have been to increase dose levothyroxine SLOWLY upwards

Usually dose is increased in 25mcg steps, but having been left very under medicated too long …you may need to increase in smaller 12.5mcg step up to 37.5mcg (cutting 25mcg tablet in half)

Never do any significant change before a holiday etc

Suggest you get back on 25mcg levothyroxine, taking it everyday

Wait 6-8 weeks

Retest levels…..test early morning, ideally just before 9am and last dose levothyroxine 24 hours before test

Meanwhile get vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 levels tested once you get home

Work on improving low vitamin levels

After next test increase levothyroxine to 50mcg a day …..or if worried that’s too much….increase to 37.5mcg everyday for 6-8 weeks BEFORE increasing to 50mcg

After 6-8 weeks on 50mcg levothyroxine…get bloods retested

Likely to need further increase in levothyroxine after this

There’s absolutely no point testing thyroid levels before 6-8 weeks after and changes

NDT doesn’t suit many people

[Denny39 in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you. The doctor has told me to stop all meds for now. The NDT armour has make my body feel like hyper symptoms even though the bloods is hypo. And I only took it for one week and it totally messed me up. The doctor said to take propranolol for now to relax the body. What do you think about this drug? Thanks

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Denny39]

How much propranolol?

Propranolol was only way I got levothyroxine dose increased to high enough dose (125mcg )

But that was probably because I had dire vitamin levels and undiagnosed gluten intolerance

See my profile

[Denny39]

10mg x 3 times a day. My body is in s heightened state since trying the NDT armour for one week and I am not coping. I have diarrhoea and sickness from the heightened state for over 7 days now. Thanks

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Denny39]

You need to click reply button….otherwise other person isn’t alerted

Ok have you taken 10mg propranolol this morning?

Take propranolol regularly….waking , early afternoon and bedtime

After about 24/48 hours you will feel much less anxious

If/when you are eventually coming off it, propranolol must be reduced very very slowly

NDT can cause increase in immune attack ….raising antibodies (the hoovers cleaning up after an attack)

Getting vitamins tested, plus coeliac blood test test next steps

[Denny39 in reply to SlowDragon]

You have been through a lot on your profile. Have you managed to work and look after family during all this time?

[Denny39 in reply to SlowDragon]

Need to go and get it from the chemist so not took it yet. If I didn’t take the propranolol then how long would it take the body to naturally clean up or would that not happen? Wish I never touched NDT. Saw on a fb group and read in books how amazing it was

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Denny39]

Have you got propranolol now

Suggest you start taking it

It will lower heart rate and calm you right down

[Denny39 in reply to Denny39]

You have been through a lot on your profile. Have you managed to work and look after family during all this time?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Denny39]

Sent you a pm