Thyroid Dysfunction and Sleep Disorders

[helvella]

Not exactly amazing, but at least it acknowledges sleep issues in both hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism.

Frontiers IN Endocrinology

Thyroid Dysfunction and Sleep Disorders

Saturday, September 18, 2021

6:05 PM

Thyroid disorders and sleep disorders are common problems in the general population that can affect people of all ages, backgrounds, and sexes, but little is known about their clinical associations. We reviewed the literature assessing the associations between thyroid disease and sleep disorders and noted that hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism have clinical overlap with sleep conditions such as insomnia, restless legs syndrome, and obstructive sleep apnea. These findings highlight the importance of identifying and managing thyroid dysfunction for patients with these common sleep disorders. Additional research is needed to further understand how thyroid dysfunction affects sleep physiology.

Full article freely available here:

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

[Goldengirl01]

Interesting as I have mild to moderate sleep apnea, had it for a while now. Did use cpap machine but the travelling backwards and forwards to the hospital was a nightmare so I will get my own when it’s back in stock. Some are clunky, I want the slimline version for bedside table.

[OudMood in reply to Goldengirl01]

You may be interested in some of Dr Bergs videos pertaining to it.

I’ve seen this which I found interesting just a couple of days ago!

If you type dr beef and sleep apnea in YouTube, you’ll find a good few more 🙂

youtu.be/hJajkK2PuMg(Not working as expected?)

[amala57]

Lack of good quality sleep, waking through the night etc, is one of the worst things I've had to deal with since having RAI. NDT has helped.

[shaws]

Thanks for posting as I think quite a number of hypo patients might well have one of the above conditions. It's reassuring to find out that it may be due to the thyroid gland and hopeful that when an optimal dose is reached of thyroid hormones it might resolve..

[jimh111]

Thanks. Will read it sometime. Sleep and thyroid disorders are important because there is loss of deep restorative sleep in hypothyroidism as seen by studies and my own experience. Being able to identify the precise characteristics of sleep in hypo and hyper thyroidism would be incredibly useful because we could use sleep EEG to monitor T3 activity in the brain. This would provide proof of thyroid status and allow better investigation of more complex types of hypothyroidism. Endocrinologists often say they can't measure T3 levels in the brain but they fail to realise we can measure thyroid hormone activity which is what we are really interested in.

[helvella in reply to jimh111]

Sleep and thyroid disorders are important because there is loss of deep restorative sleep in hypothyroidism as seen by studies and my own experience.

In my experience too!

[TSH110 in reply to helvella]

Never mind deep sleep it was ALL sleep in my case. I had to stay awake for two days to be able to get any sort of sleep at all- it was hideous. I’d start to feel sleepy at 6am - what use is that to anyone? I had to keep awake so I could do my job keeping going was very tough. I sleep like a baby now zero problems dropping off, but I still don’t get more than five or six hours a night - I’m sure Thazzer was hyper cos she only did 5 hours max, TED eyes and lack of empathy….No idea if the type of sleep I have is well balanced. I never wake up feeling fully refreshed but a 5am rise, now in the dark, is hardly an inviting prospect, even though I like my job. I was always envious of my father who said he felt just as awake when he opened his eyes as at any other time in the day. How marvellous that must have been.

[jimh111 in reply to TSH110]

When I tried coming off thyroid hormone I was tired and wanted to sleep but my brain couldn’t make the synapses to slip into sleep. Lack of sleep and inability to sleep.

[DippyDame in reply to helvella]

Mine too!Thank you helvella.

[TSH110]

It’s an interesting article. Thanks for posting.

I feel sure the abnormal levels of hormones affect synchronisation of body clocks that work in a cascade manner, if my understanding is correct, and this creates chaos for the whole body. Sleep patterns go completely haywire for example. I used to get excruciating itching on my shins at 7pm every night - like clock work - I’d scratch them so badly they would bleed. I got little relief even then. I can only surmise some sort of body clock was causing that. Initially I thought it was provoked by something I was eating but no particular foods seemed to be involved. Then I thought it was caused by my dogs’ fur, but whippets are not big on fur and moult very little. I moved on to dust mites or allergies - all of which were absurd explanations my equally disordered mind came up with to try and make sense if it. It never occurred to me to seek medical advice I’d had so many knock backs by then I gave up on so yes and thought I was a mad hypochondriac imagining all these health issues. I just suffered In silence, my mind was badly affected too, so reasoning was no longer my strong point. Now I am sure it was some sort of internal disorder, as a mal functioning body clock kicked in doing crazy things to me. Cytokinin storms sounded like a possibility. I was in a very bad way by this time.

Pity none of this was discussed as a possible cause in the article. It must have been studied because I read of all sorts of curious sleep treatments which are used to try and help people (I think it was those with bipolar) with sleep disorders where attempts to reset their their master body clock are made using various sleep/wake patterns including regularly missing a nights sleep, which, interestingly, is what I resorted to before diagnosis and treatment just to try and keep going in a 24hr day world. I think there has been some measure of success with these methods but they are not one offs for the most part because the disordered sleep patterns resurface

I was also curious to read an old article that was posted here recently where the author postulated that thyroid disorder of a yet unknown type could well be at the bottom of mental illnesses like bipolar. T3 therapy has been found to be helpful in fast cycling bipolar which is extremely resistant to the bog standard drug treatments. It also creates havoc with sleep patterns.

There’s so much we still don’t know about thyroid disorder and the mechanisms by which it causes such a myriad of symptoms. It is a very exciting area for research, I hope it is better studied in the future rather than simply being ignored. I bet the medics of old had interesting ideas as to what caused the sleep problems in those with thyroid disorde, which they would have been aware of. These days it’s like reinventing the wheel as all that knowledge of symptoms has been lost and each one has to be scientifically ‘proven’ before it’s accepted as real. Common knowledge yesterday, totally disregarded today - that’s progress for you. Why is it all things to do with thyroid knowledge appear to be regressing, if they went backwards it would in fact be forwards.

[E_lizab8 in reply to TSH110]

Read up on histamine, overproduction can cause itching and poor sleep amongst other things.

[TSH110 in reply to E_lizab8]

Yeah I think those cytokins are something related to histamines and puritus.. Luckily I don’t get it anymore, now I am on thyroid replacement hormones. It was murder! Certainly looked like it after I had finished scratching 🤣🤣🤣

Indeed they are all part and parcel of it, seems histamine might help symptoms of COVID too:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Yeswithasmile]

Thanks for this Helvella. When I was diagnosed with ME it was explained by a rheumatologist with hand sketched diagrams as not getting any restorative phase 4 sleep and that’s why I hurt so much. Maybe I should forward it to him! Interesting. Thank you.

[NIKEGIRL]

I slept ok with hyper levels but now I’m borderline hypo. I am exhausted now and have been prescribed sleeping tablets. My body is like stone. Heavy. I have 2 weeks before I see an Endo last test was T4 8.0 range 10-24 and T3 3.5 range 2.0-6.0. These results were 7 days ago and I feel so much worse than then so levels will be lower. Was told to stay the course of 150mg of PTU until I see the Endo. At this rate I won’t make it out of bed. Honestly. I don’t know what I will do

[helvella in reply to NIKEGIRL]

When will you get to see the endo?

I suggest that if someone has been significantly hyperthyroid, they are likely to feel hypothyroid at levels others might find OK. In a sense, their bodies have habituated to high thyroid hormone levels.

Just as well doctors don't drive supertankers. "I see we've reached the port. Maybe reduce engine speed a bit." - as the ship ploughs through the jetties and grounds in the shallows.

Think ahead - at least a little. If you are not on the bridge when you near port, have you left instructions for the first mate?

[gabkad in reply to helvella]

LOL!

[tattybogle in reply to helvella]

LOL

"TSH 'normal' , Carry on Skipper"

[helvella in reply to tattybogle]

History shows a strong medical theme through Carry On films:

• Carry On Nurse (1959)

• Carry On Doctor (1967)

• Carry On Again Doctor (1969)

• Carry On Matron (1972)

Unfortunately, in an appallingly unambitious decision, in 2019 they chose to make Carry On Doctors – when it should, obviously, have been Carry On Endo…

They could appeal to the zeitgeist and recycle some lines:

Dr. Tinkle: [examining Dr. Bigger's back] Slight bruising, certainly. No bleeding, good.

Francis Bigger: Just like the service in here.

[tattybogle in reply to helvella]

"Carry on Endo"

Should be quite cheap to make.

They could get the rest of the lines from a day's reading on here. Should be pretty cheap to build the set too..... just need a computer screen and a telephone.

No need for a consulting room ,obviously.

Just needs a good 'cast' of arsy patients .

They shouldn't be too hard to find either.............

[TSH110 in reply to tattybogle]

I feel a modern minimalist masterpiece in the making!

[NIKEGIRL]

I saw my GP Last week. Diagnosed in peri menopause. Blood Results from last week and told to hold the course of PTU for 2 weeks till 30 sept. I feel like poo. No energy. I’m pretty sure my levels have fallen again. I am confident I will be fully hypothyrodic by 30 sept. That’s what the Endo wanted. Me to stay on the PTU and not come off. My mental health is coming off the rails. It’s bloody hard.

[NIKEGIRL]

Another reason to stay on the Endo dose of PTU is so I can prove my point which is their dose is too high which is what I have been battling for months. So I have to go hypothyrodic to keep them happy and prove my point. I hope I can make it. I really do as well as work.

[tattybogle in reply to NIKEGIRL]

You can do it.

You know why you're doing it .

You're in charge .

10 days.

Just keep walking.

Hear what they say.

Show them what state you're in.

Then do what you want on Day 11.

You CAN survive.

[Eddie83]

After a lifetime of gluten enteropathy, accompanied by autoimmune thyroiditis, I have found that thyroid hormone dosing may have to decrease as better health returns. I have noticed that decreasing T3 (but not T4) can improve sleep quality. I suspect my T4->T3 conversion has improved over time, but I have not had thyroid testing for a good while. I suspect it's a good idea for hypothyroid patients to have testing every year, to see if response to thyroid replacement is changing.

[BB001]

Looking at the sleep apnoea part of this research, I noted that the research that included measurement of T3 levels found an association, but those that only measured hypothyroidism status by measuring TSH and T4 did not which is not surprising, as it is T3 that is the important thyroid hormone that has an effect on the metabolic, respiratory and other systems in the body. If the other researche had included measurement of T3 levels their research may have well come to different conclusions and found there was an association.