The effect of brexit on personal imports are likely to affect all of us who buy anything, whether medicines or other goods, from outside the UK.
As you can read, this changes are making companies reconsider dealing with UK customers at all. As far as I can see, the issues apply to all other countries - not just EU members.
EU firms refuse UK deliveries over Brexit tax changes
Some EU specialist online retailers have said they will no longer deliver to the UK because of tax changes which came into force on 1 January.
Bicycle part firm Dutch Bike Bits said from now on, it would ship to every country in the world except the UK.
"We are forced by British policy to stop dealing with British customers," it said on its website.
Another firm, Belgium-based Beer On Web, said it was now shunning the UK "due to the new Brexit measures".
The companies are angry because they now face higher costs and increased bureaucracy in order to comply with UK tax authorities.
However, it is unclear how many have taken the drastic step of refusing all UK orders.
At the same time, international shipping companies including Federal Express and TNT have said they are levying additional charges on shipments between the UK and the EU.
The BBC playing its usual anti-Brexit games. EU is being treated no different to any other country except for small purchases VAT will now be collected at the point of sale instead of when goods are imported. If this means we won't have to pay Royal Mail surcharges for collecting VAT / customs duties it will be good news. (most goods have VAT but not customs duty).
It will not be good news if non-UK companies refuse to register with the UK's HMRC.
Collection at point of sale can only work with cooperating points of sale. If that is eBay within the UK, they can add VAT. But if it is the company's own website, that is another matter.
I am NOT complaining about the VAT payment. (Indeed, I have long thought some means of paying VAT ahead would be a way of avoiding the customs clearance charges. Which were a huge imposition on lower value goods.) And avoidance of VAT has never been my aim.
It is the extra cost to the seller both in terms of registration charges and administration. As the article explains, imagine having to register with 195 equivalents of HMRC around the world. Do returns at least every quarter. Remit the funds to HMRC. More or less, four VAT returns every working day. And keeping abreast of the legislation in each of them.
Obviously, you would throw in the towel for the countries with which you have the lowest turnover.
For the big, big companies, it might not be too bad. But as you go down the scale, the costs rapidly become unbearable.
The scrapping of low value consignment relief (what we recognise as the £15 limit) is, indeed, happening across the EU.
However, I do not know about any requirement for companies outside the EU to register for VAT inside the EU. That is ignorance, not saying it isn't the case.
This is not anti Brexit, this is the truth as it currently stands, whether you like it or not. If companies refuse to do business with the UK that means we as consumers lose out and prices go up. We are already seeing the additional bureaucracy causing havoc with imports at the ports. Those that will wind up paying out more because of this are us. Because it is always us. We are the losers because of the one third of the country that decided to put patriotism above working as an international community.
I'm not up on these regulations, so this is what I (mis?)understand. We used to have to pay VAT when we imported goods < £135 from outside the EU and on top of that pay Royal Mail or couriers through the nose for collecting the VAT. This applied on a per shipment basis.
Under the new procedure overseas companies register for VAT. The company includes the VAT on the customer's invoice and pays it to the Inland Revenue each year. Same as UK companies have to.
More efficient and cheaper, no paying Royal Mail or couriers additional fees for every parcel. This now includes EU companies. Some companies may have so little trade with the UK that they can't be bothered. The new process reduces tax avoidance giveing UK companies a level playing field. Customers benefit by not having to pay excessive 'inspection' fees or having stuff held up at customs.
There is a good side - if you are buying goods between £15 and £135 which would otherwise have potentially been charged VAT and customs clearance. (Though many of us have found charges applied erratically.)
We have lost the low value consignment relief (£15) - but that will or does also apply across the EU.
And smaller companies might have no desire to continue trading with the UK unless their turnover is sufficient to cover their extra costs. Further, those who do will be in a position of paying more for carriage (most courier companies have increased charges already), and might well start to operate differential charging. That is, higher prices to customers in the UK.
I can certainly imagine a system which did NOT require all these VAT registrations and regular returns.
Go to UK HMRC website. Fill in form which lets you say what you want to send to the UK (your details, description, value, addressee). Pay the required VAT online. Get a label you can print. Stick that on the package. Send. A true pay-as-you-go system.
(Obviously the website should have a portal to allow company systems to do this automatically.)
HMRC (or courier) scans, which looks up validity of payment. Occasional checks, of course. Gets passed for delivery.
Also, bear in mind, UK businesses have a threshold of £85,000 for VAT registration. These potential overseas vendors have a threshold of zero. Not one penny.
Yes, some couriers (especially American ones) are trying it on, hopefully market forces will bring them in line. We can get stuff sent from China with cheap carriage so there's no logical reason for high charges from European countries. Suppiers can always default to using postal services for small orders.
The £85,000 limit tends to apply to services e.g. plumbers or repair shops. We always have to pay VAT on goods even if they come from a tiny local shop.
No, they are not. Some traders are not registered for VAT because their businesses have a low turnover (sales) – and some business activities do not attract VAT.
We tend to end up paying VAT on all goods. For example, if I get a small builder to do some work I still end up paying VAT on the bricks, plaster etc. Even if the builder isn't VAT registered they or I can't obtain the materials VAT free.
jimh111, 'The new process reduces tax avoidance giveing UK companies a level playing field.'
Given that the discussion on TUK is mostly here because of the issue of buying medicines, I'm not seeing any good reason to buy, for example, my liothyronine or desiccated thyroid from a UK pharma company that's intent on ripping me off, when I could previously buy from outside the UK at a much more fair and reasonable price.
I don't think this topic applies to medicines because they are VAT exempt.
Large companies supplying medicines will no doubt sell other goods that are VAT chargable and will be registered, they will simply not add VAT to medicine orders.
A separate issue, but I don't know if we can still order prescription medicines from the EU.
Jimh111, I and very many others here have always paid the usual VAT and customs collection fee on medicines (without prescription) from non UK pharmacies. See the comment directly below by helvella
The utterly ridiculous thing has been that even with additional VAT and customs fees, it has still been cheaper than paying for the same medicine with a private prescription from a UK pharmacy.
Sorry, I was thinking of prescription medicines. Oh for the good old days before VAT and we could put high taxes on luxury goods and no tax on more basic stuff. (and not have to find trades people who will turn a blind eye to VAT).
I'm getting lost in the thread! Yes it was cheaper to buy lio and NDT overseas. I'm not sure we can get prescription medicines from EU countries now. I suspect it will take some time to get clarified.
Medicines are NOT VAT exempt. Under certain limited circumstances they may be zero rated.
Technically, there is zero rate on prescribed medicines. But those who buy without prescription, they pay VAT. Also bear in mind, without knowing the details of the scheme, it might be that even sellers of zero-rated goods have to register.
This seems quite likely. I read something about the seller getting some sort of barcode or QR code they apply to each package. That then proves VAT has been paid. Anything without such a code would be regarded as ripe for VAT payment and, I imagine, customs charges.
I remember when VAT was first introduced and some shops, such as bookshops, found they were having to register for VAT even though books were zero-rated.
The HMRC rules from April 2019 say:
Accordingly, there are 5 conditions which must be met before a supply of goods on prescription can be zero-rated:
The goods must be prescribed by an appropriate ‘relevant practitioner’
The supply must be of ‘qualifying goods’
The goods must be dispensed for an individual’s personal use
The goods must not be supplied for use for patients while in hospital or in a similar institution or administered, injected or applied by health professionals to their patients in the course of medical treatment.
The goods must be dispensed by a registered pharmacist or under a requirement or authorisation under a ‘relevant provision’ Each of these conditions is examined in further detail below.
I have not managed to find the equivalent for the post-transition we are now in.)
I have found absolutely nothing to suggest EU countries continue to recognise UK prescriptions under their cross-border rules. Despite the rules having specific rules about three non-EU countries there is no mention of UK.
Can I use a prescription from an EU country in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway or Switzerland as well as within the EU?
YES - The rules on cross-border prescriptions also apply in Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway.
NO - Switzerland is not covered by the agreement on cross-border prescriptions, and is therefore not obliged to accept prescriptions from other EU countries.
Technically, there is zero rate on prescribed medicines. But those who buy without prescription, they pay VAT. Also bear in mind, without knowing the details of the scheme, it might be that even sellers of zero-rated goods have to register.
This seems quite likely. I read something about the seller getting some sort of barcode or QR code they apply to each package. That then proves VAT has been paid. Anything without such a code would be regarded as ripe for VAT payment and, I imagine, customs charges.
I remember when VAT was first introduced and some shops, such as bookshops, found they were having to register for VAT even though books were zero-rated.
The HMRC rules from April 2019 say:
Accordingly, there are 5 conditions which must be met before a supply of goods on prescription can be zero-rated:
The goods must be prescribed by an appropriate ‘relevant practitioner’
The supply must be of ‘qualifying goods’
The goods must be dispensed for an individual’s personal use
The goods must not be supplied for use for patients while in hospital or in a similar institution or administered, injected or applied by health professionals to their patients in the course of medical treatment.
The goods must be dispensed by a registered pharmacist or under a requirement or authorisation under a ‘relevant provision’ Each of these conditions is examined in further detail below.
OMG why is everything so complicated ?Thank you for the detail - so glad I am no longer running a business. Managing increased prices will of course impact us all - SIGH !
It seems to me that this country is heading for another period of “splendid isolation”... and any student of British history will know how that ended. The only difference this time is that it has no large scale manufacturing industry of its own anymore and has become increasingly reliant on buying in from abroad.I guess time will tell, but it’s not looking particularly promising is it and we’re only 5 days in so far...
This forum is not the place for political statements, especially as you like to portray the view that Thyroid UK and this site are approved by the NHS. This statement simply confirms my view that many posters in this group have particular political and personal leanings that they are not shy of promoting , regardless of the fact that this is supposedly a group providing health advice, not political persuasion. We should not be discussing VAT and import tax problems here!!! What have Ebay transactions to do with Thyroid UK??? There are many factors concerning new import/export rules, and, unless Thyroid UK and its affiliated groups are trading in the world markets, and have expert knowledge of the practices, procedures and regulations involved, they cannot comment. POMs are a different matter entirely, but, of course, these are not the items that are presumably the underlying reason for this posting. As for being lectured on the stupidity or otherwise of the way anyone has voted in recent referenda, that is not only inappropriate, but completely unacceptable, particularly on a health advice group! The continuing lack of judgement in what is allowed to be promoted, and the comments that are permitted, make any health advice somewhat less than believable. If I am now banned, or my comments removed, this will simply show how far removed from a politically impartial health group this has become, and therefore how unreliable its information and advice might be. If people want political debate, there are more appropriate ways to do it. Health Unlocked is not one of them.
We should not be discussing VAT and import tax problems here!!!
Many members buy their medicines from outside the UK (ranging from B12 ampoules, through prescribed liothyronine, and desiccated thyroid - as well as supplement products). If these personal import issues affect these orders, I see that being very much on topic.
For that reason, it was posted an an informational post.
(The fact that the VAT issues affect items not related to thyroid is unavoidable.)
Partner 20: sadly, all of us are in these dire circumstances because way too many within this population cry, "Too political", when of course that is not the case or - as a nation - we would not be in the huge mess that we're all now in. "Too opinionated without substance" is the problem, so surely little can be too political or unacceptable? How information is delivered by politicians and their lackeys has brought us to this unthinkable point - not the type of information provided here by helvella.
Many of us on here are appallingly affected by 'the politics of hypothyroidism', 'the politics of medicine', 'the politics of politicking'... need I go on? It is only by discussion that [silly], wholly opinion based, notions will eventually be seen through. (OK, there is no 'truth' as such but there are way better approximations of accuracy than that which commonly passes for 'games' deliberately played to hoodwink so many.)
Life IS POLITICAL - with virtually EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES BEING AFFECTED - far better that approximations of 'factual accuracy' are brought to the fore, than the general mendacity repeatedly fed to 'The People' under the guise of... what, exactly!? What?
Partner20, especially as you like to portray the view that Thyroid UK and this site are approved by the NHS.I'm not aware that Thyroid UK or this Thyroid UK community makes such claims. Please point us to this information. Please also explain why the NHS does not allow us to discuss these new laws?
Partner20 To further clarify for anyone reading this that is not fully aware, this is a patient to patient forum. Any apparent 'health advise' is always offered on that basis. Just as you might offer your own experience and advise when talking face to face with a neighbour, family member or friend.
That actually says, 'Useful Resources', rather than recommended. The link to an HU forum is not actually to this forum. It's to a generic HU link that collates comments from all forums relating to the medicine levothyroxine.
In/on? describing this to my husband... it is your [political] stance that is shining through...
"The continuing lack of judgement in what is allowed to be promoted, and the comments that are permitted, make any health advice somewhat less than believable."
LC: Helpful information was being stated - NOT promoted - it is you seeking to undermine that, by mixing in your own political stance...
"If I am now banned, or my comments removed, this will simply show how far removed from a politically impartial health group this has become, and therefore how unreliable its information and advice might be."
LC: You introduced the 'political' aspect - 'facts coming home to roost' - has now become a problem for many of us. Being prepared to 'be banned' speaks volumes re your own political views. Why would you be banned!? Also, the two comments - 'politically impartial' being equated to 'unreliable info/advice might be', these are not comparable... at all.
"If people want political debate, there are more appropriate ways to do it. Health Unlocked is not one of them."
LC: You have made a debate of this. There could be nowhere more appropriate for those of us who may be affected to be informed of this.
The Pernicious Anaemia Society would put forward B12 deficiency which requires injections - at least, if they are needed more often than every 8 (or 12) weeks!
Point taken - let's keep our fingers crossed! There are 5.7 million SMEs in the UK - that makes up 99% of all businesses. Brexit will have a huge impact on the way these businesses operate, from how they pay tax, to the requirements they must comply with if they employ EU citizens. There has been sufficient time to 'plan ahead' for this 😅
The companies in all 27 EU countries have, hitherto, been charging their own local VAT rates on goods sent to individuals (not registered for VAT) across the EU.
This has been dead simple for them.
Changing to a system which requires specific registration for the UK, and paying for that registration, and doing returns, and remitting the funds, and keeping abreast of the regulations is quite a burden for a smaller company. The company will have to assess whether the market is worth keeping. And whether they need to change their prices to cover their increased costs.
Of course, there are big companies with subsidiaries or branches in many EU countries which have been effectively multiply VAT registered.
I have an account with a paid for 3 yr discount with a German online pet shop where I buy my catfood. They recently wrote telling me nothing would be changing in the way they trade.
I find it difficult to understand how that could be!
They were charging German VAT (I don't know what VAT applies to petfood in Germany, so could be zero or standard rated - let's say, they were accounting for VAT if not paying it).
They now have to either charge you UK VAT and send the petfood with a "VAT paid" marker. Or you get charged when it arrives.
It might work out that if you used to pay 50 euros, you will continue paying 50 euros. And, if they are paying UK VAT and putting the marker on, then, from your point of view, it could appear to be "no change". But, behind the scenes, there must be changes.
As German VAT was lower than UK VAT, you were effectively getting a small discount then. I don't think they have a choice now. If they are to honour your agreement with them and continue to supply you, they will have to comply with the new regulations and charge you the UK VAT rate.
I have previously been purchasing goods from an Italian company, who were charging me the Italian rate (which is higher than the UK rate).
The company have now halted orders from the UK until they sort out the paperwork involved.
If youre buying from the same pet food company I am, an awful lot of work is being done behind the scenes, and many of the special diet products I've come to rely on will no longer be available.
I have just written to them asking for clarification. I don’t know if you got the same gist as I did from their email sent on the 16/12 because it looked to me as if they were supplying more stock to the distribution centre so that things would stay pretty much as they were. Anyway if they answer every question I put to them I should soon know for definite.
They did mention it might take 5 weeks. I hope they reply before too long then because I have over 2 years left. I only used to get the 1yr discount before, then I decided on the extra years and have saved rather a lot of money.
If the NHS choose to include links to the HU Platform, that's up to the NHS. It is not the same thing at all as TUK or this individual forum portraying 'the view that Thyroid UK and this site are approved by the NHS.'
Bicycle part firm Dutch Bike Bits said from now on, it would ship to every country in the world except the UK.
"We are forced by British policy to stop dealing with British customers," it said on its website.
To be honest I think that’s mean and spiteful. There is no reason at all that British policy should stop them dealing with British customers - they’ve chosen to do so.
If the costs of complying with the new regime are higher than make sense for their business, I don't see they have any choice.
We cannot expect them to make a loss, or even a lower profit from UK customers than others. If they raise their UK prices, they might not be able to sell enough.
I have no knowledge of their business so cannot possible judge whether they would lose out by complying.
No, I would never expect them too lose money on any transactions they make, put prices up if they need to and if people choose not to buy from them then I can’t see what difference it will make but to say that they ‘would ship to every country in the world except the UK.’ - that just sounds mean but if that’s how they want to play it then it’s up to them.
I can just imagine all the people around us with those trendy Dutch cargo bikes for lugging their children around in feeling a bit miffed if they can’t get the parts they need.
I mean every other country in the world apart from the U.K.? Hmmm.
There might be medicines that are classified as prescription-only (POM) in the UK, but I do not believe there is any country in the world which recognises UK prescriptions (other than the UK itself, of course).
Therefore, none will be zero-rated for VAT as they will not conform to HMRC requirements.
We can get some medicines which might be classified as prescription-only (POM) in the UK from the EU if they are NOT POM in individual EU countries. For example, injectable B12 from Germany.
Yes you are right tried to buy my vitamins for Wet AMD online from the US and they were charging me another 20% VAT because the UK left the EU was their note. However I found it on Amazon sent from amazon eu at a rather good price but had to buy a bigger quantity there shipping was free and arrived very quickly. There is adeal in place so not sure why companies would stop shipping in the UK I know the deal does not include services ie banking insurances taxes ect... So maybe this is the sticky point for certain businesses. Ofc now it is a new system and it will be quite bothersome hopefully all will be done online eventually and make life easier. Between Cvid and Brexit the next few months are going to be enerving...
Companies might decide to stop shipping as, in order to do so, they need to register with the UK's HMRC for VAT (for which there is a charge), and do all the associated work, collect the money, remit to HMRC, do returns, keep abreast of the rules and regulations, etc.
The expectation is that everything we buy online will attract UK VAT at time of ordering. And when that doesn't happen, it will be charged with customs clearance charges via the courier.
The above is deeply unattractive to the smallest companies.
Yes that is the issue the cost will be felt more by the small companies also ofc all the world trade was through EU regulations so that also has to go through UK tax system. A bit scary we so used now to a big market choice... We will have to buy UK goods which I suppose was the aim... Not many goods are purely British so most of what we buy will get a price increase 🙁...
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