Muscle strength/pain

[Murphysmum]

Can anyone help me out or point me in the right direction here?

I’ve posted numerous times about my lack of muscle strength, quick tiring of muscles etc.

My activity levels are now really good again following several bad years trying to find what worked. However, the muscle weakness thing remains an issue for me.

I have good days and bad days and it’s very much affected by whether I am over OR under medicated, and I think I’ve got my dosing as good as I can now. But that aside, the amount of muscle tone and strength I’ve lost over the last few years is scary. More scary than that though is the inability to make this muscle up again.

It’s just not there. I used to be very physically strong. I worked as a gardener and had always just got stuck in to anything, so although I was no gym bunny, I was fairly fit and strong. Now if I do anything heavy, I get pain, like, in my bones. Like the carpal tunnel pain so many people suffer. It’s a fairly sharp, very localised pain on using that muscle and can be anywhere, wherever the muscle is I’ve been using. I also get tired and almost crampy muscles when doing repeated movements, or trying to hold something up for example.

What I’ve realised is, I NEVER get the traditional, day after feeling of having worked muscles. You know, that sore but good “no pain, no gain” feeling that increased over the 24 hours following a good workout. That doesn’t happen anymore. I just ge the sharp, ‘inside the bone’, ive done too much feeling.

I do have low testosterone (I’m female just to be clear) so I suspect that’s not helping but, does anyone have any idea what’s happening? Even if I need to look down the avenue of another disease, I’d be grateful if people could give me any suggestions.

I’d love now to integrate some regular, planned weight training into my days to try to rebuild lost muscle but at the moment I’d just end up in pain with no gain! I can’t get my head around what’s going on metabolically. What do I need to do?

As always I’m sure I’ll get some ideas from here, TIA 😊

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Personally I just don’t think Levothyroxine/T3 work same way as your own thyroid hormones.

We’ve lost that instant feedback to make more hormones if or when physically challenged

It’s such a fine balancing act.....that even a couple of hours digging (especially in cold weather) would seem to often be “too much”

[Murphysmum in reply to SlowDragon]

This in not what I wanted to hear! 🙉

I’ve come so far, and now I feel I’m almost, almost back to normal but this is thwarting me. I’m only 44, not 84 which is what my muscle health feels like!

Maybe it’ll come over time. Maybe it’s linked to my “other” hormones which clearly aren’t spot on.

But I’m really secretly hoping for a “ oh, it’s this....”-type reply!

Thanks anyway SlowDragon ! 😊

[Heloise]

Hi Murphysmum, This is a tough one. Our muscles are our work horses and so reliant on thyroid hormone and ATP. SlowDragon may be on to something for older people but you are still young enough I feel to overcome. Your nervous system may be relying on cortisol and adrenaline. Everything feels tight and tense. I don't think muscles recover in this condition and I think it's our basic problem. Our mitochondria create lactic acid instead of ATP in my opinion. Deep sleep can help to repair but that's another problem. Mitochondria are fragile and toxins interfere. Glyphosate and vegetable oils seem to be the worse. This is all fairly new to me and though I think detox measures have helped. There are supplements that support mitochondria, not sure exactly what they do but functional doctors use them for healing chronic conditions. I'm watching some of these today.

Dr. Villanoueva is very good. thementalhealthmasterclass....

[Murphysmum in reply to Heloise]

Thanks Heloise .This is exactly the sort of information I was looking for. A starting point if you will. I’ve managed with the help do this wonderful forum to fix (a work in progress obvs) my thyroid issues, now I think I’m on track with my hormones, next mission is to work out how to help the muscle problems.

I totally agree and understand what you say about the mitochondria and the atp use.. this makes complete sense. I’m certain I can have a go at “fixing” my issues as I didn’t always have it - the muscle weakness thing started a while after my initial thyroid problems, so I’m confident it’s a deficit in something or similar.

I just need printed in the right direction or even better, to find someone with the same problem who has “fixed” it!

Thanks 😊

[Heloise in reply to Murphysmum]

I'm glad you get it. Have you seen any of the internet doctors or the summits? They have been amazing and are treating people all over the world. The problem is that insurance covers very little but it may be worth the investment anyway. They use definitive tests like shown in #4 in that link above. They can track improvement. After viewing a few hundred different doctors, two things are really important, locating gut infections and biofilm. Supplements can include enzymes, oxygen and nadh and seem to be a theme.Parasites or mold can be involved. The tests they use can find them. This is so superior to conventional doctors I have quit going. Even on my own I've made a lot of progress even though much older than you. I'm not sure this is the place to find it out but keep seeking.

[jrbarnes]

This is my number one complaint. I'm only 40 and this has been going on past 35. It started gradually with difficulties bending over with pain and stiffness, losing the fluidity in the movement of my body, inability to exercise, open a jar, lift and carry my 10 lb dog. I enjoy gardening and I can barely dig a hole. I used to be physically strong and able to lift heavy bags of dirt and dumbbells during exercise. I used to be able to spring off the ground with energy. Walk for miles and climb hills. I noticed this happened when my T4 levels slipped and my T3 followed. I have to be dosed over the reference range in T4 to feel strong. Good or not that's just the way it is for me.

[Murphysmum in reply to jrbarnes]

I totally sympathise. We sound very similar!

I feel like this is really my only issue now and if I could find a way to solve it, I’d be a happy bunny

[Sallybones]

Hya, you've just described me to a T! Muscle wastage and no strength and never that lovely after exercise feeling any more.

I'm trying to get my iron and vitamin d levels up which are always low and my haemoglobin is always just under range. Some of my red blood cells are oval shaped and don't carry as much oxygen as normal shaped cells.

I have digestive problems which makes eating a good diet very difficult for me.

I'm trying a new Iron supplement which is supposed to be gentle on the stomach but easy to absorb and I've upped my vitamin D3 to 4000 per day +VitK2 mk7.

I'm doing a private testosterone blood test in the next few weeks out of curiousity. I know my GP wouldnt do it so no point in asking. Always searching for another piece of the jigsaw.

You're not alone and hope I've been a little bit helpful. Wish you well.

[Murphysmum in reply to Sallybones]

Ooh. I’m intrigued by what you say about the blood cells. How did you find that out?

It sounds very like this could be my issue.. I very quickly get that lactic acid feeling but without having done anything much at all!

And never, ever that been to the gym feeling. I really miss that! (Not the gym, the feeling!) I went for a cycle today and although it was short, it was very hilly so my legs have had a good workout but I’ll feel nothing. Some might think this is a good thing but from what I can see, it’s because nothing is happening!

I have a bad hip and need to keep the muscles tight around it to help maintain the joint. It’s got so much worse over the last couple of years and my original exercises are no longer working. To me this proves that normal muscle repair and growth isn’t happening. Quite worrying really at my age.

[Sallybones in reply to Murphysmum]

I've had quite a few private blood tests because I was getting frustrated at the bitty approach by health professionals and feeling so ill for so long.

The overviews that came back often thought my results pointed to some sort of anaemia but they weren't sure why and considered my related results were 'okish'!

A blood smear was then suggested and that showed up I have some mis-shapen cells called Elliptocytes, also known as ovalocytes. I think I'm right in saying that they don't carry as much oxygen as normal shaped red blood cells and have a shorter life span. Sometimes it is a hereditary condition.

I'm not very good at explaining things but sort of your body is always trying to keep up with itself, like fighting a bit of a losing battle.

I know that no amount of exercise I try to do never improves my muscle function or strength but just the opposite and a lot of pain.

I think its only part of the jigsaw though.

I do self inject with vitamin B12 too and just monitoring my thyroid at the moment.

If you're getting a lot of bone pain it may be worth asking for a dexa scan, unless you've already had one. I had a lot of pain in my shins which got worse post hysterectomy and it turned out I had the beginnings of osteoporosis.

I've had to push for a lot of tests through my GP as some you obviously can't do yourself privately unless you have the funds.

Mitochondria that Heloise mentions is very interesting to read about.

Its a bit like the whole body goes out of kilter for whatever reason.

[Heloise in reply to Sallybones]

These can still be viewed for another day. Dr. V. is excellent. thementalhealthmasterclass....

[Heloise]

It is just occurred to me that one doctor said there was a microbe that did affect muscle deterioration. They never did go into an expansion on that because they were pointing out the many influences your microbiome has on the different systems. I may check that out.

[BShankly in reply to Heloise]

Murphysmum Very interesting... I read somewhere that Glucocorticoids are known to induce skeletal muscle atrophy. I'm guessing it's to do with the immune system?

[Murphysmum in reply to BShankly]

Interesting. I’ll have a look at that too. It bugs me that this didn’t happen at the start, ie it wasn’t an immediate low thyroid hormone issue, it has come on as time has gone on despite much improved thyroid treatment abs supplements.

Dow make me wonder if there’s some other imbalance I’m not spotting

[BShankly in reply to Murphysmum]

Yup... I've learned that it isn't just the thyroid that's effected but the relationship between the thyroid, gut and adrenals. And, as you say, everything has toppled over. So taking a tablet might work for the luckier ones but I'm sensing my own path will be (like yours) a lot more complicated.

Please keep us updated.

And thanks for all your support Murphysmum

[Heloise in reply to BShankly]

Hi B, your adrenal glands produce both steroids, along with sex hormones and cortisol/epinephrine. Watch Dr. John Bergman's Adrenal/Thyroid videos. Wonderful.I think the microbiome which has your profile of flora becomes infected or has overgrowths causing imbalances. There are also fungal infections hidden in biofilm anywhere in the body. These functional doctors have tests that can discover almost problem. This is why we are so vulnerable to those pesticides and any nonfood additive they put on our food. It's no surprise that as time goes on they can develop as our immune system slows. Biofilm can cover the other infections and the immune system cannot detect it. There are so many ways to feel awful! But they do have methods to counteract them. Protecting your microbiome is very important.

I'm sorry the link has been removed as they went through five different tests from patients; the Organic Acids Test is very revealing but when they compare notes from several tests they can really determine where things are going wrong.

[Murphysmum in reply to Heloise]

Any time I’ve ad my adrenals tested they seem to comeback fine.

But I’m definitely deficient in progesterone and testosterone.

I’m about to try pregnenolone cream to see if that helps at all - I’ll keep you updated.

I’ll have a look at the stuff you mention online though Heloise , all very interesting

[Heloise in reply to Murphysmum]

I believe your adrenals are fine also from the shape you are in. It is not an adrenal problem. The adrenals will steal progesterone and vitamin C to make cortisol if you are in fight or flight which MAY be a problem for you so I found progesterone helpful to support the adrenals. Pregnenolone may also support them as it covers the sex hormones but I think your basic problem is in the microbiome. I've watched hundreds of interviews and have often posted information here about them. People like Tom O'Bryan, Dr. Perlmutter, Dan Kalish, Darren Schmidt and many others who are treating people all over the globe. The way they can do this is because they use certain lab tests by certain labs, like Cyrex and LabCorp who can do the testing. The tests are very revealing even when they can't examine you in person and as you well know, sometimes your symptoms do not show on the outside and brain issues that become involved. I almost decided to use Dr. Villanueva just to verify that what I have been doing has helped. Check her out and you will get the idea of just how complex this is. modernholistichealth.com/ab...

[BShankly in reply to Heloise]

Fab... thanks!

[Heloise in reply to BShankly]

There are answers out there!

[Murphysmum]

Hi Hidden , yes I do. Only a maintenance dose now but yes.

I can’t say I’ve noticed an difference either way but I’ll keep an eye on that.

[Bertwills]

I suffer in the same way. I think it’s probably impossible for me to build up muscle fitness by increasing exercise. I think I’m working at the limits of my abilities all the time. Occasional extra effort hits me for six but my performance doesn’t improve with repeating the same exercise routines ie climbing the same hill out dog walking hasn’t got any easier or faster, which it really should in a normal body. It think this is the chronic fatigue involved in other syndromes eg fibromyalgia & M E. I have taken T3 only for several years now & this suits me best so far but I’m still limited by the fatigue & aching.

On a brighter note I’ve just discovered percussive massage guns might be useful to help improve muscle strength & reduce pain. I haven’t used one yet but I think I’d like one for Christmas as certain of my muscles become unbearably tight & restrict my movement. I’ve just starting to research so can’t give guidance but they might suit you too. Lots of info online and reviews. It’s all new to me!

Maybe let us know if it helps at all.

Ps Dr Sarah Myhill writes a great deal about energy production & mitochondria on her website.

[Darty3]

I was as weak as a kitten until through this site managed to get T3. Great improvement but still weak muscles.En route to getting T3 on NHS an endo did blood tests for calcium and parathyroid, both slightly raised. Next endo said so slight just wait and see.

Weakness terrible so did a degree in Hyperparathyroidism online and found out it was due to a lump on the parathyroid. Since I've had 3 previous cancer lumps went to GP and asked for a scan. Confirmed.

More research and now waiting to see consultant re an operation

So when you think of it, any change of whatever chemical in the blood can upset the muscles that is all muscles including gut, bladder and the heart.

Good luck with your research and I hope you find what is wrong.

[Murphysmum in reply to Darty3]

How did your thyroid issues start? Has yours always been related to the parathyroid?Interesting and true what you say, any imbalance has a knock on effect

[Darty3 in reply to Murphysmum]

I had thyroid cancer in 2004 but they left a bit of the gland so until it died after 10 years I was fine on 100mcgs T4.2015 started with muscle pains and gradually got worse a worse. GP said it was all in the mind. So in 2019 found this forum and bought T3 privately. Brilliant then as I said above . Lots of cramp as well as pain.

[Murphysmum]

Just to add - the pain I get is we like shin splints - but anywhere that muscles have been worked.What causes shin splints? Its the muscle fibres pulling in the bone as far as I can recall 🤷🏼‍♀️(Though I appreciate this is grossly over simplified!)