Hi, I've just had my oestradiol test back, day 16 of my cycle, at 336 pmol.
I'm 47, probably perimenopause as cycles are all over the place. Now on day 20 and breast pain! Which I get a lot.
Does that look ok?
Still waiting on other Thyroid/hormone test results, initial tests indicate central hypothyroidism.
Do you have the range for the test?
The range for estrogen is extremely broad in general because our levels fluctuate throughout our cycles. I was told that in checking for low estrogen, it's typically better to test in the first couple of days of the cycle, when they are lowest.
Hi, thanks for responding, I've just realised I've confused my pmol with pgml.. so my level looks totally normal! Yay
Were you seeking to test for low estrogen or high estrogen? As where you were in relation to ovulation matters with this sort of test. If you look at this, then it shows estrogen being quite low on day 16, but that is based on a 28 day cycle - what it really shows is estrogen tailing off 2 days after ovulation.
google.com/search?q=female+...
For example, my cycle is 30 days, day 16 would have meant my estrogen was at its highest, because that's when I ovulate.
My cycle has been intermittent for nearly 3 years, yes my normal cycle was 28 days.
My GP is testing various things as advised by the pituitary foundation, as my TSH and ft4 axis is not as it should be....
Previous: TSH below range at .29, and ft4 11.2 which is on the low end of the range.
My new ft4 will be interesting...
On tenterhooks.
And do you definitely ovulate on day 14 of your cycle? It varies person to person.
Another thing you might want to check is your progesterone levels (test 7 days prior to your next period) to check the estrogen to progesterone ratio. If your progesterone levels are low, then you might suffer estrogen dominance.
I've no idea about ovulation, or how you'd know that?
This is all very new to me.
I'll apparently get a referral if any of my tests are odd, so I guess that will be looked into - the most telling test I think will be my ft4, If that's low again then it points to rare central hypothyroidism.
I know, it confuses me too 
there are signs that can tell you you've ovulated, e.g. discharge, body temp, cervix position, if you're curious to learn about it.
From what I understand, ovulation happens a fixed number of days prior to your period (so if you ovulate 12 days before, it will always be 12 days before). Once you learn the signs and how long your individual luteal phase is, it can be really handy!
My cycle can sometimes be irregular too, last month I realised I was ovulating 2 weeks late, so my period would be 2 weeks late too and it was pretty helpful! It's worth learning the signs so you can take some of the guesswork out.
Hope your T4 test sheds some light on things!
Hi, a bit of an update, I now know that my last 2 cycles have been 25 days. So my estradiol was tested on day 16 and was 336pmol, with a range I think 30-400, so according to Google that seems quite high in the range for such a short cycle.
GP calling me with other hormone results and new Thyroid tests today so maybe things will be a bit clearer.
Hormone cycles are really complicated, it's a minefield! I would ask if your doctor would be willing to re-run the test on day 1 or 2 of your cycle, because at least you'll know that's when your level should be low. I don't know if that would help at all 
images.app.goo.gl/EDBACbWXB...
Progesterone is also worthwhile testing if you can, because low progesterone can also contribute to estrogen dominance (assuming that's what you're looking for).
Please all you wonderful ladies out there, don’t underestimate the menopause, it can be a total life changer and all for the wrong reasons! Get good help early on and save yourself a lot of grief! Follow Dr Louise Newsom who is the leading authority on menopause and has a great website and app and is raising awareness in the U.K. about this soooo important subject. Get regular hormone and thyroid tests and get on oestrogel and utrogestan which are both bio identical hormones are quite frankly life savers.
Thanks for that, I'll look her up. I'm a bit scared of it as I've a collagen disorder very similar to Classical EDS, and a worsening of symptoms is very common after menopause. *If* I do have central hypothyroidism, like my brother,then I'll definitely need to keep a close eye on hormones as it can cause things to go awry. My whole family have had significant exposure to endocrine disrupting farm chemicals, many are now banned, so hormone issues would be no surprise. Dealing with hormones looks really complicated!
The key is regular hormone testing and being in the best form of HRT, always take progesterone and oestrogen separately and bio identical by far the best. Exercise and magnesium help balance hormones
Hi again, just a cautionary note about taking any form of hormones, particularly oestrogen, without more research. Datis Kharrazian talks about hormone effects on thyroid function in his thyroid book and says that exogenous hormones are not necessary and can cause more problems. Look carefully at your own and family history - oestrogen often exacerbates autoimmunity. I found I have a couple of genetic SNPs that can make oestrogen metabolism difficult. I have had symptoms for years - fainting at puberty, migraines with the contraceptive pill sufficient to stop taking it, heavy cycles, breast pain then thyroid nodules which some say are connected, but no-one ever looked further and they even wanted me to take HRT knowing all that! I did functional testing so know that I am not able to break down and get oestrogens out well enough, so am doing something about it (diet and supplements). It is complicated, some say bio-identical progesterone does help, but not all, so be careful. (Absolutely agree about benefits of (not too extreme) exercise and magnesium!) Here is Micki Rose's page on oestrogen if you haven't found her yet. (She has recently changed the way tests are done so links may be a bit odd, but it gives you somewhere to begin). Best wishes
(Helps if you remember to add the link - sorry
purehealthclinic.co.uk/heal... )
Hi Bookish - GREAT site so many thanks for posting the link - can I ask you how you found out about your genetic SNPs that can make oestrogen metabolism difficult and what sort of things you do to counteract them - I suspect I have similar and have spent much of the last week down a rabbit hole trying to research this for myself but never seemed to get to the bottom of it. I'm currently taking bio-identical progesterone and am worried that I could be unwittingly making matters worse for myself.
Hi - it is isn't it, glad you agree! I have a couple of Micki's books (Gluten Plan and Recovery from Chronic Illness) and I've learned a lot. But I'm familiar with that rabbit hole, believe me, and none of this is easy or straightforward. That doesn't mean you can't make sense of it and more importantly, make improvements. I used bio-identical progesterone for a while and thought I was better for it, but then started to react to something in it so stopped. I started to react to rather a lot, histamine issues etc etc so diet that was already autoimmune got trimmed even further. Now I know that wasn't such a good idea and it is much wider again (although for me will never be gluten (grain) or dairy again).
Anyway to try and answer your question, I had started to think (looking at my own history and Mum's in particular) that there was a folate cycle issue, affecting both folate and B12 absorption at cellular level. No one agreed so couldn't get MMA and homocysteine tested and couldn't find anywhere to take blood privately in time available, so ended up in desperation doing a general genetic test (swab) and a hepatic detox (function) - urine (the one mentioned near the bottom of Micki's oestrogen page). The genetic test showed me a predisposition to problems with COMT particularly, also MTHFR, GSTM1 and CYP1A1 and A2 (and lots of others!). The mentioned ones all may have a bearing on the oestrogens, plus other effects. This is of course only theoretical and you can't look at SNPs in isolation, need to look at actual function and see if any of it is really doing anything to add to your health issues. The hepatic test showed that my phase 1 liver detox was not too bad, but phase 2 (including methylation) is slow, so I have been trying to offset/support that.
I'm glad that I did the genetic test as I needed to know for my own sanity if I was barking up the wrong tree entirely, and I have actually gained quite a lot of information from it that has proved to be useful. But, a big but, as far as actually making improvements to my health is concerned it was completely unnecessary because you shouldn't ever 'treat' a SNP - it's presence means nothing, and I think we can get hung up on the minute 'what ifs' and miss the point rather. I think if I'd realised sooner that oestrogen was playing such a big part, I'd have done the Dutch test instead or as well. Finances only permit so much.
As to supplements - depends what you find and whether you need things to speed up or slow down. I've cut as many toxins as possible (house cleaners, personal care, food additives...) and avoid caffeine (CYP1A1/2), take Vit C, E, magnesium, methylfolate (small amounts) and B12, plus Kirkman's Detox-Aid which has calcium d glucarate specifically for oestrogen, and precursors to glutathione. I also eat raw carrot!
There is a short but useful chapter in 'Why do I still have thyroid symptoms' by Dr K on supplementing hormones, both thyroid and sex, and he isn't keen. Lots of suggestions in the book, which is well worth a read. He, like Micki, says that we should be concentrating on getting gut function as healthy as possible, so that we are absorbing properly, and liver in good shape, so that we can get things out efficiently. Basically, do that first and see what you are left with. I wasn't absorbing well, lost a huge amount of weight and was really quite unwell, but diet changes slowly got gut absorbing better and then supplements started to 'stick' and do something - not much point paying a lot for supplements and flushing away all the benefits!
Sorry for the epic. Hope something in it is useful to you x
No, bookish, don't apologise at all - I am incredibly grateful to you for recounting all of that - a lot of it made a huge amount of sense to me and was very enlightening. Last week I read the preview to micki's book "8 step healing plan" (is that the same as "Recovery from Chronic Illness"?) and a lot of bells began to ring and while I have a clear enough [roughly] idea of the big picture in terms of what might be wrong and why and what I need to do about it I am still struggling with plotting the way forward in any kind of useful detail.
I had to abandon my bioidentical progesterone cream last week 
which was disappointing - and not because of the progesterone itself, but because of the synergistic effect of other things. In a nutshell about 2 weeks ago I began taking some homeopathic products to treat EBV and over the course of those 2 weeks I noticed things which came to a head last week - they were killing off stuff my liver couldn't process and so I had to take the pressure of everything off my liver. Bad in one sense but led to the lightbulb moment of problems with phase I and II detox pathways. Shame about the EBV stuff as I will have to completely abandon it for now. However I am now blundering around trying to get to grips with testing issues. I need to test adrenals and female hormones as a matter of some urgency and some sort of hepatic detox test would be helpful. Was looking just now at the Regenerus DUTCH test and while it looks VERY thorough, the results also look hard to interpret in the absence of a knowledgeable practitioner to do it for you. I'm wondering whether I would be better just doing salivary testing for adrenals and hormones and then doing the hepatic detox test you did - were you able to read and interpret the results of that for yourself?
I've been looking at this article, which you might also be interested in, in terms of taking forward treatment [and it neatly dovetails with Miki rose's Gallbladder treatment fact sheet - the hormones and the GB problems for me are intertwined of that I am certain]
naturalendocrinesolutions.c....
In light of your very helpful info and advice above I am wondering should i just leave it at the hepatic detox test and is it really worth doing the genetic test at this stage?
I'm thinking of adding in CdG and glutathione - I do eat raw carrots - I used to eat them a lot but then stopped for some reason, so am now back on them. I tried CdG before some years ago but it made no difference, but then I read in the article above:
"Thyroid hormone is also involved in glucuronidation, as T3 influences some of the UGT enzymes (UTG1A1 and UTG1A6). Vitamin A also plays an important role in this (1). As a result, even if someone has sufficient T3 levels, but has a vitamin A deficiency, then this will have a negative effect on glucuronidation."
And a lightbulb went off - those years ago I was thyroid hormone deficient - now I am actually taking T3, albeit that I cannot yet get to a high enough dose [adrenal probs] I wonder if it will make a difference this time around.
TBH not looking forward to a supps increase - already taking more than anyone's fair share of supps and working out what you can and cannot eat with each one is a dietetic nightmare at times, but needs must I suppose.
Thank you so much for the epic. It was extremely helpful to hear from someone with similar issues who is actually getting results!x
Hi and thank you for the article - I hadn't found this one before, and he writes very clearly. Interesting about the beta-glucuronidase too. I had that tested as part of a gut/stool test some time ago and mine was ok, but this explains how it fits and why keeping activity low is a good idea. Fortunately I am eating a lot of the things he lists as useful for that already. I need to think about my Vit A levels though.
Interesting though the genetics is, I think you are right to channel your funds elsewhere. The hepatic detox is a short and fairly uninspired report - here is a link to the website and there is a sample test report linked from it doctorsdata.com/hepatic-det.... I'm a year younger, but have the same Phase 2 result (so the same final paragraph) and Creatinine similar (mine 45, this 47), but Phase 1 here was a bit fast at 300, mine was only 130 (although things like benzene don't show, so it may not be quite so good as it appears). I did get a report from Micki but it didn't add much that you haven't got in the link you found and if you want and do decide to do that test, I'll let you know what she said by PM. Basically she suggested more tests, as more specific information on which pathways are problematic means you can target treatment better, but I can't afford it, so am taking the general support.
The DUTCH does seem very well regarded, but looks complicated. I've done 3 Regenerus/Labrix saliva adrenal, one of which had Estradiol and Progesterone included, but never did the full hormone one. They seem to have changed now anyway so perhaps what I did (2017) is no longer available. I was really interested to see your old post on what Dr K had said about cortisol awakening response/blood sugar and not just throwing adrenal glandulars at it - oh, beep! I said to myself, having done just that (under advice, but prior to Micki, who I think would say the same as Dr K). The glandular has certainly made me feel more human, but maybe it is just another sticking plaster.... so much to learn.
Yes, the '8 step' is the same book - small book with a rather long title, but good.
Sorry about the progesterone set back - hopefully not for too long. Is the EBV current and did you test? Interested to hear what you are using too, if not too much trouble, no rush! I was watching something as part of a summit on Anxiety yesterday because it was about lymphatic drainage and blockages and she basically said we need to clear the bottom of our 'bucket' drainage system, which is the colon, first, so regular movements priority number 1 (!), then liver and bile duct which will block next if bowel isn't functioning well (and often forces detox via skin, kidneys and/or lungs). Next step up is the lymph and glymph (brain) which are vital and often overlooked, then organs and tissues, then cellular level. Trying to do any kind of detox with blockages at the bottom of the drain is going to be really problematic and I suppose the same goes for any kind of treatments that may speed things up more than we are ready for. I found when I started the methylfolate that I went too high and was getting headaches and feeling a bit off, so eased back and am just taking it all very slowly. The summit speaker said if we get the drainage working and slowly get the body working better for itself, it will heal and repair and we won't need so many supplements or treatments to manage symptoms. Here's hoping!
Best of luck - keep me posted on progress x
are these normal levels
Levels 
Thyroid levels on chemo
Levels 
Thyroid levels re anxiety
