Update on endo response. Rude and dismissive. - Thyroid UK

Thyroid UK

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Update on endo response. Rude and dismissive.

Smash49 profile image
29 Replies

Hi all. Just need to let off a bit of steam to people who 'get it'. I saw an NHS endo a few weeks ago about possibility of T3/T4 combination and posted about my experience which wasn't good. However he did say he would do bloods and discuss my case with his team. He also agreed to refer me on to an endo of my choosing if he wouldnt help me and would be in touch. I assumed being in touch would involve a phone consultation at the least to let me know his decision. Yesterday I received through the post a copy of a letter he has sent to my GP stating he is refusing to treat with any T3. He has put in the letter that I requested a second opinion with an endo, from a list provided by Thyroid UK, if he wasn't prepared to treat me and requests that the GP facilitate that for me. He also put in the letter that I am a biology graduate which I did mention during the consultation, but only because he was treating me like a 3 year old. I am absolutely fuming that he has been so weak to give me this information via a letter which isn't even addressed to me. Surely I should be entitled to discuss his decision with him. As for mentioning that I'm a biology graduate in the letter, has he done that to give my GP a warning that I'm going to be problematic because I have an understanding of anatomy and physiology and biochemistry etc? I want to bang my head against a wall right now as I seem to be at the mercy of idiots. So now I'm going to have to go through another ordeal trying to get my GP to refer me on again. I knew he would refuse treatment but I hadn't anticipated he would be so spineless as to not tell me directly that he would be doing so and that's what is making me so angry. Right, rant over now and I feel so much better for getting that off my chest so thanks so much for listening. My question to you all is, could anyone from the North West of England who has been granted T4/T3 combination treatment by an NHS endo please PRIVATE message me which doctor and hospital you went to please. I have the Thyroid UK list but there are a couple in the North West and I'd just like that added info in order to allow me to make the most informed choice when I battle it out with the GP. Thanks all

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Smash49
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29 Replies
SilverAvocado profile image
SilverAvocado

Unfortunately doctors do treat us very badly :( It took me quite a long time before I started to accept that it is just abuse. If a loved one or family treated us that way then it would be very clearly unacceptable!

It's very hard to get T3 prescribed at the moment. Lots of people are actively having it taken away. I think perhaps in Liverpool we are a tiny bit luckier than most because I do know of a few people who are prescribed T3. But the only one where I know of the journey to get there directly it was a long fight, and it's a person who does very well in an argument.

I think you should have the idea on the back burner that eventually you will probably have to buy your own.

Redlester profile image
Redlester in reply to SilverAvocado

well said SA - it is just abuse and we are an easy target!

Hay2016 profile image
Hay2016

An occupation of knowledge does get a double take though especially when they are being particularly patronising. I had the GP write on my daughters notes mothers a healthcare professional. 😂 that seems years ago now. They never argued with me again.

You may find gp talks to you like a peer not a naughty school child.

Hillwoman profile image
Hillwoman

SilverAvocado is right: this behaviour in consultation constitutes abuse. I've found throughout my life, in various contexts, that to deal with an abuser you have to remove yourself from the situations where the abuse occurs. There is no reasoning with abusers: they are not rational, responsible, conscientious individuals.

It doesn't surprise me that the endo didn't contact you directly to discuss, because consultants never do, despite their promises.

MichelleHarris profile image
MichelleHarris

I think it attracts a controlling type as they hate you to have independant thought. Not all the same though thank goodness ! But they do stick together. You dont need to give him time in your head or your respect x

Smash49 profile image
Smash49

Thanks everyone for your support. Much appreciated 😊

Partner20 profile image
Partner20

Gosh, I am sorry about the anger this situation has clearly aroused in you. However, and I am in no way suggesting that all consultants are perfect, because I know from experience that they are not, you "assumed" that you would receive a further phone consultation, but nothing was arranged or mentioned at the time. It is standard practice for communication to be carried out by letter when there is nothing to be gained by further discussion, even if you think otherwise. The consultant actually did what he had promised, by telling your GP to make a referral for you to an endo of your choice. You will find that, more often than not, letters such as these are sent addressed to the GP and copied to the patient, especially when they contain recommendations for the GP concerned. You rarely get a separate letter as a patient, as there will be just one letter, copied to all concerned. We have so many such letters here that we are used to seeing ourselves simply copied into the basic letter to the GP. No-one is being rude or spineless, I assure you, it is just the way things are done.

Smash49 profile image
Smash49 in reply to Partner20

He didn't do as promised because he promised to refer me on himself and he specifically said he would be in touch with me again following the blood results and his supposed discussion with his colleagues. If you read my original post regarding my consultation it does state that he would refer me on. In the experiences I have encountered with myself and my husband and childrens encounters with hospital referrals we have always had a final consultation to discuss the treatment or investigations which have been undertaken as a conclusion to the doctors care of the patient. This is also complemented with a copy of the letter sent to the GP. I get that the NHS is busier than ever without the funding they require, but if doctors don't realise that the whole point of them being there is the care and dignity of their patient as a human being who is the centre of the process then they have forgotten the fundamentals of a practicing doctor.

Angel_of_the_North profile image
Angel_of_the_North in reply to Partner20

Yes, the rude, arrogant, dismissive way things are often done esp in the NHS to women. I have always had a letter addressed to me from a consultant (gastro and cardio), so I don't think that is "normal".

bantam12 profile image
bantam12 in reply to Angel_of_the_North

I see 5 different Consultants at 3 different hospitals and only ever get letters addressed to my GP and copied to all others involved including me, even from my Private Gynea Con, likewise for my late husband who went to other hospitals, that is the "normal" process.

Angel_of_the_North profile image
Angel_of_the_North in reply to bantam12

Wow., that's terrible. So glad I don't really the NHS any more

bantam12 profile image
bantam12 in reply to Angel_of_the_North

Why is it terrible ? I don't see it as a problem as long as the information is there and at least I know the letter is going to the relevant people. If you only see private docs then obviously your experience may be different.

Angel_of_the_North profile image
Angel_of_the_North in reply to bantam12

They should write to you and copy to GP. You are the customer. I don't understand why that has changed. When I was using NHS, letters were addressed to me and sent to my address, so no need in most cases to lose further pay by going to GP to find out what was said.

bantam12 profile image
bantam12 in reply to Angel_of_the_North

Letters are addressed and sent to me and seperatly to GP and any other relevant person, it's the same letter just copied to others, I don't have to physically get copies from GP so I don't see it as a problem. My cardio frequently writes a separate note to me on a copied letter and my Gastro will write a copied letter with separate notes to my GP, me and my IBD nurse all in the one letter, not an issue, saving paper and time !

Smash49 profile image
Smash49 in reply to bantam12

I think the difference is that from the sound of your post you have not been referred back to your GP never to have opportunity to see, consult with your cardiologist again, it is more that you are still under the care of your cardiologist and he passes information to your GP which you are 'cc'd' into if you know what I mean. If your card diologist wrote to your GP to say he wasn't going to treat you any more without you having had successful treatment to cure your symptoms, I think you would be upset not to had the opportunity to be able to discuss that decision with him/her

Hashihouseman profile image
Hashihouseman in reply to Partner20

You patronising fool. You don’t know the facts of any of that. Consultants and gp s frequently treat patients like imbeciles. Patients know how they feel. They have aright to be treated with respect with acceptance of their perceptions. Everyone with a defective thyroid has a right to t3 replacement it’s disability discrimination not to acknowledge this.

in reply to Hashihouseman

There's no need for name calling.

I can't see anywhere that Partner20 denied anyone's right to T3.

Hillwoman profile image
Hillwoman in reply to

Partner20 has upset a few members recently, so Hashihouseman's response may reflect this, as well as being a comment on the assumptions P20 made above

in reply to Hillwoman

Perhaps. But I maintain, there's no need for name calling. It cheapens any argument.

Hillwoman profile image
Hillwoman in reply to

You may have a point, but I think you have to understand the nature of Partner20's activity on the forum. It isn't appropriate to say any more just here in someone else's post, but I imagine someone will make a formal report to the admins before long, if they haven't already done so.

Hashihouseman profile image
Hashihouseman in reply to

it sharpens the argument - look how much attention it got

Hashihouseman profile image
Hashihouseman in reply to

.... actually there is a need for name calling... naming the attitude that all too frequently pervades the debate, the tone and the words of all that were patronising, pompous and belittling of the of the issues and the originator of the thread. Being overly polite feeds into the attitudes all to often promulgated by medical professionals who have sarcastic codes for 'difficult' patients who are actually knowledgeable, not effectively treated and genuinely reporting actual symptoms of actually bad treatment. Being polite sometimes minces words and the people whose delicate sensibilities were are being polite to protect get away with their stupid offensive politely put comments. And T3 prescription is at the front line of these arguments with patronising sarcastic abusive clinicians!

Smash49 profile image
Smash49 in reply to Hashihouseman

I was surprised to see how many posts are on here today. I think you have raised a good point about doctors having code phrases for potentially problematic patients which is why I had focused on his necessity for stating I was a biology graduate in the GP letter. I think he was trying to give the heads up to the GP that I wouldn't just accept everything that was said to me. Good point. With regards to partner20 I got the impression this person may have a medical profession and is wishing to justify the way their profession operates. Which is fine as everyone is entitled to an opinion but they should make public the fact they are on the forum because they are a medic and wish to broaden their thinking. You never know if more medics took part in the forum and debated with us it might be a positive for our cause 😊

Redlester profile image
Redlester in reply to Smash49

I think you meant partner 20 (rather than houseman 20) - just saying so that people don't get confused. And I completely agree with both your suspicion [they are medic] and your suggestion that they should be open about that on the forum - I have read some of Partner20's recent posts [my he/she has been BUSY!!!] and even from the way some of them are written they sound like a GP/consultant - particularly because there is a total absence of any empathy.

Smash49 profile image
Smash49 in reply to Redlester

Hi. Thanks for letting me know about that, I've corrected my post now 👍. How did you read their other posts if you don't mind my asking, I'm a bit rubbish at this forum thing as it's the only forum I've ever taken part in. I had a look at their profile but they haven't put anything on that. They've not responded to any of the responses to them on this post. As you say though if they are an NHS doc then they will probably have a tendancy to being narcissistic and only interested in what they think 😁. That's a joke partner 20 if your reading it, I know that there are some excellent docs out there in the NHS... I just haven't met any!

Redlester profile image
Redlester in reply to Smash49

smash49 I'm constantly learning new things about how to navigate my way around this forum - if you go back to where you looked at the profile - it says nothing but if you take your cursor to the tab entitled "posts " you can see everything they have written in response to posts created by other people.

Smash49 profile image
Smash49 in reply to Redlester

Just found the button to read people's replies from their profile. Panic over 😂

NWA6 profile image
NWA6

No advice on endos in the North East. I just came to read and call your Endo a TWAT!

Bloody typical! Grrrrrrr

Wired123 profile image
Wired123

Have you ever been described as “charming” in a doctor’s letter. That’s doctor code for someone they don’t like.

Usually informed people like us who challenge them!

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