New results with antibody Test - could someone help

[Jamima]

I’ve had a re-Test of thyroid as I’ve had on-going problems with feeling unwell. Could someone please give me an opinion. I also have low cortisol and very low DHEA. Many thanks.

[pennyannie]

Hello Jamina

Are you taking any thyroid hormone replacement ?

Apart from your T4 looking a little low, the above results look balanced, and the antibodies are both low, and currently of little issue.

No thyroid hormone works well is your vitamins and minerals are not maintained at optimal levels. And by this I do not mean somewhere in the range, but at least 50% + through with some, like ferritin needing to be well over 70 for optimal thyroid hormone replacement conversion.

It's necessary to maintain your core strength strong and solid and levels of ferritin, folate, B12 and vitamin D need to also be measured to identify any underlying issues that can easily be rectified by self supplementing since your doctor may only assist should your levels go out of the range.

[Jamima in reply to pennyannie]

Hi pennyannie - no, I’m not taking any meds. I’m working on my vits and iron as some of them were low last time I tested.

[pennyannie in reply to Jamima]

Oh, ok then : are you feeling any better than when you started supplementing ?

I remember it took me over a year to build up my ferritin but my dizziness and breathlessness started to improve when I reached around a level of 45 :

It can take some time, but worthwhile even if not currently on any thyroid hormone replacement.

[Jamima in reply to pennyannie]

No, if anything, I feel worse. Incredibly weak and permanent brain fog/exhaustion.

[Jamima]

For reference, my test in jan 20 was TSH 1.46

FT3 4.97

FT4 13.6

[pennyannie in reply to Jamima]

Well there appears to be a pattern emerging from just these two sets of results :

Your TSH is going further out from 1. 46 and now 1. 88 :

Your T3 has reduced from 4 .97 to 4.19 :

and:

Your T4 has reduced from 13.60 to 12.30 :

So with my limited knowledge I see your thyroid hormone production reducing and your conversion of the T4 into T3 possible compromised by low vitamins and minerals :

The low antibodies would suggest that you do not have an auto immune thyroid disease but read that these numbers can fluctuate :

The NHS do not treat until your TSH goes over 10 - though it's acknowledged when the TSH reaches 3 you will be feeling symptoms of hypothyroidism.

I'm sorry, I know this reply doesn't actually solve anything and I can't think of anything else :

[Jamima in reply to pennyannie]

Many thanks pennyannie. Im now resigned to the fact that I’ll probably have to take things into my own hands in terms of treatment. I’ve stopped functioning on a daily basis as I used to (running 2 businesses), I can’t do anything more than a gentle walk and then I’m knackered (used to run 5k twice a week), I can’t remember anything to the point my family are asking me what’s wrong, I could easily sleep all day if I didn’t force myself to stay awake. To me, that’s not ‘satisfactory’ as my gp described my last results. Thank god for this forum and all the recommendations, without it I’d just continue in a downward spiral.

[Jamima]

I’ve just read the notes from the Medichecks doctor and she says I’ve no need to worry as my thyroid is ‘nice and healthy’. How can a borderline t4 result be healthy?

[TaraJR]

I don't necessarily take heed of the Medichecks doctors' comments. Just make best use of the actual test results.

I wonder if SeasideSusie or SlowDragon could advise more on this thread?

[Jamima]

Thank you Tara, I would’ve thought that any borderline result wouldn’t necessarily be ‘healthy’. Certainly doesn’t feel healthy.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Looking through previous posts....I don’t think you have had vitamin D tested yet ?

NHS postal kit test £29

vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D is actually a pre-steroid hormone. And absolutely essential

Some research suggests low DHEA can be linked to low vitamin D

Optimal vitamin D is at least over 80nmol and around 100nmol maybe better

Vitamin D

GP will often only prescribe to bring levels to 50nmol.

Some areas will prescribe to bring levels to 75nmol

leedsformulary.nhs.uk/docs/...

GP should advise on self supplementing if over 50nmol, but under 75nmol (but they rarely do)

mm.wirral.nhs.uk/document_u...

NHS Guidelines on dose vitamin D required

ouh.nhs.uk/osteoporosis/use...

Improving to around 80nmol or 100nmol by self supplementing may be better

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/218...

vitamindsociety.org/pdf/Vit...

Once you Improve level, very likely you will need on going maintenance dose to keep it there.

Test twice yearly via vitamindtest.org.uk

Vitamin D mouth spray by Better You is very effective as it avoids poor gut function. There’s a version made that also contains vitamin K2 Mk7

It’s trial and error what dose we need,

Government recommends everyone supplement October to April

gov.uk/government/news/phe-...

Also read up on importance of magnesium and vitamin K2 Mk7 supplements when taking vitamin D

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

livescience.com/61866-magne...

sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

Vitamin K2 mk7

betterbones.com/bone-nutrit...

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

Importance of vitamin D for fighting Covid

moxafrica.org/post/the-vita...

[SlowDragon Administrator]

20% of Hashimoto's patients never have raised antibodies

See if can persuade GP to do thyroid ultrasound scan

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Paul Robson on atrophied thyroid - especially if no TPO antibodies

paulrobinsonthyroid.com/cou...

[Jamima in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you. Do my results look like Hashi’s?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Jamima]

Antibodies are negative, but obviously that doesn’t rule Hashimoto’s out completely

With Hashimoto’s thyroid levels can change up and down quite rapidly

Have your results changed a lot

You could have Ord’s thyroiditis where thyroid shrinks and shrivelles up.

[Jamima in reply to SlowDragon]

My results from jan this year

TSH 1.46

FT3 4.97

FT4 13.6

I also have low cortisol and very low DHEA.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Jamima]

Not dramatically different

Hashimoto’s often starts with transient hyperthyroid results and symptoms

Do you eat dairy?

[Jamima in reply to SlowDragon]

Yes, I eat dairy, not a huge amount though.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

What’s your diet like

Vegetarian or vegan?

[Jamima in reply to SlowDragon]

Thank you SlowDragon - I’ve been supplementing with VitD+K2 spray for years now , I also supplement magnesium, b12 spray and spa tone daily. Approx 2000mcg of vit c daily and a b multi. I’m mostly pescatarian with meat once per week.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Jamima]

So iron and ferritin likely pretty low?

What was most recent ferritin result and ranges?

Eating iron rich foods like liver or liver pate once a week plus other red meat, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily orange juice or other vitamin C rich drink can help improve iron absorption

dailyiron.net

Links about iron and ferritin

irondisorders.org/Websites/...

drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...

This is interesting because I have noticed that many patients with Hashimoto’s disease and hypothyroidism, start to feel worse when their ferritin drops below 80 and usually there is hair loss when it drops below 50.

Helpful post about iron supplements and testing

healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...

Have you tried strictly gluten free diet?

Why gluten intolerance can upset cortisol levels

kalishinstitute.com/blog/gl...

[Jamima in reply to SlowDragon]

These are iron results from 4/5 months ago.

Ferritin 34 (20-300)

B12 412 (180-2000)

Folate 11.9 (2.8-20)

Transferritin 2.14 (2-4)

%sat 32

Iron 17.8 (10-28)

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Jamima]

So ferritin very low, can take many many months to improve

[Jamima in reply to SlowDragon]

Yes, but someone replied to me on my first post saying it could be tricky raising ferritin as my iron levels were reasonable.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Jamima]

Read lots of humanbean replies on iron and ferritin

SeasideSusie too

[Jamima in reply to SlowDragon]

Many thanks. So you think it’s low ferritin that’s causing my symptoms?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Jamima]

Important to actually test vitamin D, certainly annually

Ideally twice year

[Jamima in reply to SlowDragon]

Is it vitamin d deficiency or low ferritin that’s causing low cortisol and very low DHEA? Also, would these deficiencies make my thyroid results change?

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Jamima]

Getting vitamin levels optimal should help improve symptoms generally

Gluten intolerance can cause low cortisol

Good vitamin levels will help thyroid levels

Lifestyle can obviously be cause ....too busy, too stressed, poor diet, not enough sleep, too much screen time etc etc

Perhaps look at Dr Rangan Chatergee website and books on how to slow down and recharge your batteries. Yoga, gentle exercise, eating clean etc etc

drchatterjee.com

Dr Lam website on adrenal exhaustion

drlamcoaching.com

[Jamima]

Many thanks.

[TaraJR]

Jamima if you're maybe looking for a private endo, start a new thread asking for any recommendations in your area. They'll have to be by private message.

[Jamima in reply to TaraJR]

Many thanks Tara - I’ve just received the list from here. There’s an endo near me and I’ve been trying to make an appointment but the receptionist is useless. I’ll keep plugging away.

[debsmitch60]

Hi Jamima, I have just come across your post after searching low cortisol and dhea.

Can I ask what your results for those were and are they any different now? I also have low cortisol and dhea x