Levothyroxine reduction. : I’ve been on 25mg and... - Thyroid UK

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Levothyroxine reduction.

Suffolklady profile image
53 Replies

I’ve been on 25mg and 50mg Levothyroxine alternate day. I stopped taking it three days ago I feel quite unwell, extremely itchy, extremely hot like my blood boiling unsettled stomach very tired is this the results of stopping it do you think or is the dose small enough it wouldn’t affect me?

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Suffolklady
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Lalatoot profile image
Lalatoot

What you were on was a very small dose. It is possible that the symptoms you were feeling were caused by not taking enough levothyroxine rather than the drug itself. Do you have any blood results to share? Have you tried different makes of levothyroxine.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to Lalatoot

I was on 25 mg as I was borderline whether to take it or not. My GP gave me 25mg levo and after three months it was spot on several months later after other blood test it was stopped. Moving on two or three years down the line or thereabouts it started to move off the scale slightly so I was put back to 25mg. With tiredness hair loss dry skin my Endocrinologist suggested going up to 50mg but I was very unwell so my GP put me on alternative doses. Been doing this for three months. Now my thyroid is back on track after bloods last week I have stopped.

haggisplant profile image
haggisplant in reply to Suffolklady

Were you told to stop? If its back on track you should stay on that dose.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to haggisplant

No but as I explained I haven’t felt well with 50mg reduced it to 25 and 50 my decision to stop. With hair loss, dry skin, tiredness overheating lack of sweating I’m trying to establish if I wasn’t taking it I might see a change in the way I feel good or bad.

shaws profile image
shawsAdministrator in reply to Suffolklady

Unless you are very frail with a heart disease, you should be on a dose which helps you to feel much better and, with a bit of luck, relieve your symptoms.

50mcg is a starting dose with increments every six weeks of 25mcg until your symptoms are relieved. As doctors only look at the TSH and seem to believe if it is somewhere in the range that we're on sufficient and don't increase dose but we begin to get more symptomatic.

Levothyroxine is an inactive hormone. The aim is for it to convert to T3 (the active thyroid hormone) and enter the T3 receptor cells which enables our whole body to function 'as normal'. Brain and heart need the most T3.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator

Yes, Levothyroxine is usually for life. Rare to be able to stop taking without becoming unwell

Standard starter dose is 50mcgs Levothyroxine. How long have you been on such a small dose Levothyroxine?

Do you have any recent blood test results?

The aim of Levothyroxine is to increase the dose slowly in 25mcg steps upwards until TSH is under 2 (many need TSH significantly under one) and most important is that FT4 in top third of range and FT3 at least half way in range

NHS guidelines on Levothyroxine including that most patients eventually need somewhere between 100mcg and 200mcg Levothyroxine.

nhs.uk/medicines/levothyrox...

Also what foods to avoid (eg recommended to avoid calcium rich foods at least four hours from taking Levo)

For full Thyroid evaluation you need TSH, FT4 and FT3 plus both TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested. Also EXTREMELY important to test vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12

Low vitamin levels are extremely common, especially if you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashimoto's) diagnosed by raised Thyroid antibodies

Ask GP to test vitamin levels and thyroid antibodies if not been done

Bloods should be retested 6-8 weeks after each dose change (or brand change) of Levothyroxine

Many people find different brands are not interchangeable. Teva brand especially upsets many people

Recommended on here that all thyroid blood tests should ideally be done as early as possible in morning and before eating or drinking anything other than water .

Last dose of Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test.

(taking delayed dose immediately after blood draw).

This gives highest TSH, lowest FT4 and most consistent results. (Patient to patient tip, best not mentioned to GP or phlebotomist)

Private tests are available. Thousands on here forced to do this as NHS often refuses to test FT3 or antibodies or all vitamins

thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...

Medichecks Thyroid plus ultra vitamin or Blue Horizon Thyroid plus eleven are the most popular choice. DIY finger prick test or option to pay extra for private blood draw. Both companies often have special offers, Medichecks usually have offers on Thursdays, Blue Horizon its more random

If antibodies are high this is Hashimoto's, (also known by medics here in UK more commonly as autoimmune thyroid disease).

About 90% of all primary hypothyroidism in Uk is due to Hashimoto's.

Low vitamins are especially common with Hashimoto's. Food intolerances are very common too, especially gluten. So it's important to get TPO and TG thyroid antibodies tested at least once .

shaws profile image
shawsAdministrator

If you are very frail, with a heart disease doctors will be cautious but if not a starting dose is 50mcg of levothyroxine with a blood test every six weeks until you are symptom -free and feel well..

Unfortunately this doesn't happen and all the doctors' emphasis is the whereabouts of a TSH.. All blood tests have to be at the earliest possible, fasting (you can drink water) and allow a gap of 24 hours between your last dose and test and take it afterwards. This is when the TSH is at its highest and prevent doctors reducing dose.

Before levo and blood test doctors diagnosed us upon our symptoms alone and prescribed NDT (natural dessicated thyroid hormones) usually 50mcg with increases of 25mcg every four weeks un til patient was well.

For some unknown reason to me doctors seem to be very ignorant of clinical symptoms otherwise I'd have been diagnosed before TSH rose to 100. I had been seeing this specialist or that specialist plus GPs and not one of them thought of hypothyroidism. I had never heard of this condition myself or if someone mentioned it I wouldn't have known what it was.

Always get a print-out with the ranges and post if you would like members to comment upon them.

A Full Thyroid Function blood test is:-

TSH, T4, T3, Free T4, Free T3 and thyroid antibodies. If antibodies are present you'd have an Autoimmune Condition called "hashimot's" the commonest form.

Too low a dose could make us feel worse. It's unfortunate that doctors - in these modern times - don't pay more attention to all of the blood test results and mainly only look at the TSH (from the pituitary gland) and adjust dose according to it alone.

I understand why you'd want to stop - especially because we feel worse after beginning something that you'd think would relieve your symptoms. Unfortunately it isn't like taking a headache pill which relieves pain quite quickly. Thyroid hormones run our whole metabolism from head to toe but we need a proper dose or alternatives other than levothyroxine but it wont be prescribed as it used to, without any blood tests at all - only the skill of the doctor knowing and acting upon our symptoms.

Our whole body cannot function if we've hypothyroidism and dose of levo should be gradually increased until we are symptom-free. For myself and others on the forum, this doesn't happen but with the help of members we can find a way.,

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to shaws

Thank you for explaining to me. I’m on prednisolone 5mg (PMR) trying to reduce finding it hard that’s why I’m under a endocrinologist. I haven’t felt well for years with tiredness no general well-being pre PMR but my thyroid as a general blood test check was in the perimeters. Then when it was slightly ‘off’ it was the opportunity to see if I felt better. Not much difference really with 25mg but as it corrected the thyroid Blood reading there was no reason to increase with the PMR and the steroids plus pain issues another problem I feel so out of balance that when the GP read my bloods as normal then I felt one less drug in the whole concoction was a start to sort myself out. However taking the last levo on Saturday I woke in a sweat last night couldn’t stop the feeling of my blood boiling although I felt chilly with uncontrollable itching, headache this morning so on. I just thought maybe this low dose might have affected my body more than I thought it did. If it is a form of withdrawal then how long can it last before it’s out of the system?

Lalatoot profile image
Lalatoot in reply to Suffolklady

It won't be a form of withdrawal in my opinion. More likely to be that your body is missing the hormones. The problem we have is with your phrase the GP read my bloods as normal. With thyroid bloods we don't like the word normal as it covers a wide range. For example the normal range for the thyroid hormone (free T4) from my lab is 12 - 22. Anywhere in that range is considered normal. If my blood result was 12, the GP would say normal; likewise if it was 22 he would say normal. Now I can tell from experience that I would feel poorly and have a lot of symptoms if my blood result was 12 and also if it was 22. We each need to find what our own optimal result is within normal.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to Lalatoot

That sounds a good strategy to adopt. If it’s only that to worry about I could experiment but with other things like steroid tapering there a lot of hormone stuff going on. However I see the endocrinologist on the 5th nov I just need to know what my approach is to have because I don’t know enough about the Endo system but somethings out of balance it convincing someone to work with me instead of going to my doctor not feeling well having bloods done and him saying well there’s nothing wrong with all your tests ( yes I had the lot) you just have to put up with it. He said it could be adrenal insufficiency or steroid effects. So I’m pretty much in despair 😩

Lalatoot profile image
Lalatoot in reply to Suffolklady

We are legally entitled to print outs of our blood results. We need to keep them and a diary of how we are feeling. That way we can see what adjustments are necessary to get optimal. Unfortunately many doctors don't do enough blood test and folks end up getting them done privately.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to Lalatoot

I’ve requested my blood result printout get it at the end of week. I keep a diary too.

haggisplant profile image
haggisplant in reply to Suffolklady

It’s got a half life of around 7 days, (takes 7 days for one dose to be reduced to half) so it takes a good few weeks to completely clear from your system.

Could you have got a weird virus? I had a very strange one earlier this year.

You shouldn’t stop unless instructed to and after a blood test.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to haggisplant

That’s helpful information which is what I need to know. You are of course right but I’m seeing the Endocrinologist soon then I can discuss it. Thank you for your advise

haggisplant profile image
haggisplant in reply to Suffolklady

It’s hard I know when you have crazy symptoms and you feel out of control.

it also can take a while for bodies to adapt to dose changes (as I’m currently remembering and experiencing ) partly as it takes a good 4 weeks or more to build up, (due to long half life) and then a couple of months for your body to adjust as cells get renewed etc, eg red blood cells, how your body digests food etc.

It’s hard if your own thyroid is fluctuating a bit too.

See what the endo says and I hope you feel better soon.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to haggisplant

Yes I haven’t got major problems with my thyroid it fluctuates It’s been over and under but only marginally.

Glad I see the Endocrinologist soon though hoping I get enough info from him as he’s the guy that will know. However saying that they still look at blood test and if it’s in the range dismiss that anymore needs to be done. I’m going about Adrenal function basically but will bring that up too I think. Thank you

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Suffolklady

The fact levels vary would strongly suggest autoimmune thyroid disease

You are legally entitled to printed copies of your blood test results and ranges.

UK GP practices are supposed to offer online access for blood test results. Ring and ask if this is available and apply to do so if possible, if it is you may need "enhanced access" to see blood results.

In reality many GP surgeries do not have blood test results online yet

Alternatively ring receptionist and request printed copies of results. Allow couple of days and then go and pick up.

Important to see exactly what has been tested and equally important what hasn't been tested yet yet

Ask GP to test vitamins and thyroid antibodies if not been done

Come back with new post once you get results of blood tests from GP

Taking steroids can lower TSH perhaps masking how hypothyroid you are

With autoimmune thyroid disease TSH often not reliable anyway. Most important results are FT3 and FT4......often not even tested by GP

Lora7again profile image
Lora7again in reply to Suffolklady

My thyroid goes up and down and I have Graves' disease you need regular blood tests and you need to take enough levothyroxine to make you feel well.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to haggisplant

It could be a virus there is some strange things going around but it’s been going on to long. Yes I’ve just had a blood test last week I have one every three months but trying different mgs each time on Doctors instructions.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Suffolklady

Dose of Levothyroxine should not be changed according to just testing TSH. No wonder you feel awful

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to SlowDragon

Well I’m in the hands of my GP so I just go with what he said. The Endocrinologist when I saw him 6 months ago looked at the stats and said it’s fine you are on the minimal dose but if you feel tired and unwell we can double dose to 50mg. That’s what I did but I felt worse that’s where we got with the alternative day thing. My GP said try it. I don’t know what I’m supposed to feel basically.

Lora7again profile image
Lora7again in reply to Suffolklady

I wouldn't let any Doctor take control of my health because they simply do not know enough about thyroid disease ... your Doctor could be making you ill by not treating you correctly ... Doctors are not God you know. Sorry to be blunt but read my profile it will show you how Doctors have kept me ill for years.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to Lora7again

Thank you I will read up on it. But I’m no doctor what do I know about it all. I hope they are able to advise. Bloods are the thing they go by so if it’s in the range they won’t give more.

SlowDragon profile image
SlowDragonAdministrator in reply to Suffolklady

Were the 25mcg and 50mcg Levothyroxine different brands?

Many people find Levothyroxine brands are not interchangeable.

Once you find a brand that suits you, best to make sure to only get that one at each prescription.

Watch out for brand change when dose is increased or at repeat prescription.

Many patients do NOT get on well with Teva brand of Levothyroxine. Though it is the only one for lactose intolerant patients. Teva is the only brand that makes 75mcg tablet.

Sounds like your results showed you needed dose increase in Levothyroxine, otherwise endocrinologist would not have said to increase

If been left on far too low a dose for long time it can be difficult to increase.

When under treated, and still hypothyroid we tend to get low stomach acid, this then leads to low vitamin levels

Low vitamin levels tend to lower TSH.....

First step is to get TSH, FT3 and FT4 testing after being back on 50/75mcg alternate days for minimum of 6-8 weeks, making sure to get tested as early as possible in morning before eating or drinking anything other than water and last dose Levothyroxine 24 hours prior to blood test

You can ask GP to test vitamins and thyroid antibodies now

can test vitamin D via NHS postal kit £29

vitamindtest.org.uk

Likely vitamin D is low, you can start supplementing once you get results

Then can test thyroid and other vitamins after 6-8 weeks

medichecks.com/thyroid-func...

greygoose profile image
greygoose

First thing you have to understand is that levo isn't a drug. It's a hormone - the thyroid hormone T4. So, you don't get withdrawal symptoms if you stop it, what you're feeling is the lack of that hormone.

Your doctor should not have started you on 25 mcg, it's too low. Starting on too low a dose can make things worse. If he'd started you on 50 mcg, you probably wouldn't be having all these problems now. And, it doesn't matter how high or how low your TSH was, we shouldn't be dosing by the TSH, anyway, the starting dose is 50 mcg unless you are very old or very young or have a heart condition. This is one of the huge mistakes that doctors make because they just don't understand about thyroid. Not even endos.

But, I think it would be easier to understand your situation if you posted some blood test results. Then, we'd know what we're talking about. :)

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to greygoose

Will do I get my print out at the end of this week. I’m grateful for everybody’s help advice and support.

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply to Suffolklady

You're welcome. :)

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to greygoose

These are my results from last week.

TSH level 3.1 (0.27 -4.20 miu/L)

Serum free T4 level 20.9 ( 12.00 - 22.00)

Some other info.

Ferritin 65 17-60 years old .... 13-150 no/mL

Vit D 78.8

Vit B12 641 (197.00 -771.00pg/mL

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply to Suffolklady

Your TSH is too high - you're still hypo. Your FT4 is high, but that probably means that you don't convert very well, and your FT3 is low. But, you won't know how well you convert unless you get your FT4 and FT3 tested at the same time.

Your ferritin is a bit low. Needs to be at least 70 mcg for your body to use thyroid hormone correctly, and preferably around 100.

Vit D could be higher, too.

B12 is good, but no folate result?

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to greygoose

Yes Folate is 4.9 ug/L

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to Suffolklady

I have got one test with T3 but I’ve requested that from doctors today. It was done 6months ago. Doctors don’t usually do this as standard.

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply to Suffolklady

That's too low. But, don't take folic acid. Get some methylfolate. :)

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to greygoose

Do I mention all this and contradict the doctor he’s a bit brisk and if he says it’s okay I’m not sure how I can challenge him. I see the Endo guy next month I will mention it to him but they have an answer for everything he skimmed my blood last time, about 6months ago said everything was fine. Again same problem everything is guidelines we are not all the same.

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply to Suffolklady

Is your endo a diabetes specialist? If so, he probably just skimmed your blood test and said everything was fine because he doesn't know any better. You could tactfully point out that everything isn't actually fine.

It's difficult to advise because it all depends on the personality of the doctor in question. It could be that they're open to tactful suggestions because they don't know anything much themselves. Then again, they might be defensive because they don't know about it and don't want to show their ignorance. Tact is necessary in all cases. At least to begin with. Until you know the lie of the land. They hide behind the guidelines because their personal knowledge is so limited. But guidelines are just that: to guide. They are not hard and fast rules, the doctor is able to use his own clinical judgement. Some of them just don't dare.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to greygoose

Thank you all for your input. I Remember why I reduced from 50 mg per day to alternate days I was having trouble with my legs I had very heavy lead feelings in my legs that prevent me from climbing stairs and even walking was even more difficult than it is usually. When I reduced levo it completely went, coincident I don’t know. Btw not sure if this is significant to blood results but I’m on 5mg of prednisone and am obviously struggling with my adrenal gland.

Not sure what is the Endocrinologist specialist subject but he’s in the Endo dept although it’s a diabetic centre too.

I think I will do as you say as I’m not very well versed with the thyroid aspect more with PMR and steroids etc. The adrenal function was the reason I went to see the Endocrinologist, the tiredness not feeling well sudden fatigue etc the thyroid was mentioned as I pressed him thus the reason for his advise to increase if not marginally. This time I think I must say more. He’s very approachable unlike my GP.

greygoose profile image
greygoose in reply to Suffolklady

The problems with your legs sound more like hypo symptoms than over-medication.

I don't think the prednisone would have any effect on thyroid results. I've never heard that.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to greygoose

Okay thank you very much greygoose its good to learn these things.

SilverAvocado profile image
SilverAvocado

Hi Suffolklady, the story you've told makes me very susp

SilverAvocado profile image
SilverAvocado in reply to SilverAvocado

Oops, pressed send too early.

The story you've told makes me very suspicious. It sounds like you've been in the hands of a doctor who doesn't know enough about thyroid, and they've messed you around for years not treating you properly and keeping you sick.

I suspect that your blood tests aren't borderline and that you do have thyroid illness, probably Hashimotos autoimmune thyroid disease, because that is by far the most common. And it could be an explanation for why you've been under the weather all this time.

As others have mentioned, 25mcg is a vanishingly small dose, and 50mcg is a usual starter dose. No one expects you to feel better on these low doses, they are intended to be adjusted upwards until you feel well. Many people will feel worse when they start these low doses, because it's enough to disrupt your own body's balance, but not enough to make you feel better.

Best practice is to get a new blood test after 6 weeks, adjust the dose, and then hold for 6 weeks and test again. You carry on like this until the freeT4 is nice and high in range, and/or symptoms are improved. Once we're on thyroid hormone replacement the blood numbers we hope to see are very different from what you'd expect in a healthy person, as we need higher levels of hormone.

If I was in your position the first thing I'd want to do is see a proper blood test and find out what's been going on all this time. You can go into your GP and ask for copies of your old blood tests. But even better unless the budget is too tight to stretch to it is to get a private mailorder finger prick blood test. Its very likely your doctor hasn't done full testing. Get a full thyroid panel as others have explained, and ideally vitamins, too.

Once you've got some results make a brand new post on the forum so more people will see, and members can advise you.

shaws profile image
shawsAdministrator in reply to SilverAvocado

If you want to add or delete anything in a post you've just written, press the down arrow next to More and select Edit, delete etc.

SilverAvocado profile image
SilverAvocado in reply to shaws

If I'm going to write a long post I'm always concerned that people will get a notification about the little too-early post, look at it, and then never get a new notification and see the full, larger post!

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to SilverAvocado

Thank you for your reply. As I said I have felt tired and lethargic for many years. I have had other issues that have not helped. Firstly pain from my back which has been terrible and still is, this is very wearing and I take a lot of medication opioid meds most of which affects my energy levels. Secondly I have PMR and are taking Prednisone, again when tapering causes a massive imbalance and make me quite unwell. I’m on 5mg so it is fairly low but I’m finding it impossible to reduce further My Rhuemotologist referred me to an endocrinologist about my adrenal function ( that’s why I’m going but taking the opportunity to ask about my thyroid.) and whether adrenal gland it’s starting to wake up. So there’s a lot going on besides my thyroid issues. Going back to my thyroid. I’ve had regular test for years as a standard thing for various issues. One test came up that I was under active but only marginally so I took the opportunity to try Levothyroxine and was put on 25mgs ( it was so marginal that the doctor gave me the choice but thought as I’m always tired let’s give it go it) I took it for 6months. I felt no change. Some months on I was told it was in the right area and was taken off. Then sometime on I found I was feeling agitated trying to do thing to quickly etc, saw the doctor had bloods and I was told I was now over active so I took carbimazole on it for short time. So my thyroid are quite unstable but not massively out of the ‘norm’. Again bloods every few months. Beginning of the year I found my thyroid was under again so I went on 25mg. I saw the Endocrinologist armed with my recent bloods (6months ago) he said there’s nothing to out of the ordinary with my thyroid but if I was feeling that tired up it to 50mg. So the rest you know, feeling worse on 50mg after 3months so my doctor did this 25/50mg alternate days. I saw him last weak I’ve been feeling so wretched had shortness of breath extra tired so I had an ECG there in surgery and my heart was fine but my pulse was running fast. He ordered full bloods got the results last Friday all read okay. Said it’s probably due to predisolone and or adrenal insufficiency. Fed up with the whole thing I took myself off of Levothyroxine as I need to know what’s actually causing it. Maybe that’s wrong I don’t know but on the 5th November I see a man who’s more up on the endocrine system. I take calcium vitamins D. My T3 conversion looks fine( I asked for that as it’s not standard) so that’s my story. Sorry to bore you all. I get my print out of blood Friday I can post it to see what you think.

SilverAvocado profile image
SilverAvocado in reply to Suffolklady

Suffolklady, all the comments doctors have made about your thyroid are only really opinions until you see the actual numbers and can double check for yourself.

The reason I'm very suspicious about being borderline is because doctors are extremely stingy with thyroid hormone, and will often tell people they're fine or borderline for years and years while they suffer.

If you've got any thyroid blood results share them in the thread, or make a brand new thread and members can advise.

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to SilverAvocado

I will do that for sure. I’m certainly you’ll be more familiar with the stat than i am. Thank you will do it at the weekend when I get the most recent results.

Both thyroid and adrenals control metabolism (the amount of available energy to make your body function) in different ways. So if you are hypothyroid your adrenals try to compensate. But the adrenals also need thyroxine to function properly. A rough illustration might be someone with a bad leg trying to carry a friend who has lost both legs!

And another question is which problem came first, the adrenal or the thyroid problem? If you are tested positive for thyroid antibodies I suppose it is likely to be the thyroid. However (if I understand it right) if adrenal function is poor (even if poor thyroid function is the cause) it makes it difficult to take thyroid hormones because the adrenals react to even a small amount. Maybe they stop being able to adjust to sudden changes. I sometimes wake up with what seems to be an exaggeration of what normally happens, (temperature and blood pressure rise and heart beats a bit harder) and suspect it might be the adrenals over-compensating

Is that right, shaws , greygoose , anyone? I haven't really got my head around that aspect of things yet.

shaws profile image
shawsAdministrator in reply to

Thanks for posting and the following link might be helpful too.

amymyersmd.com/2017/03/adre...

in reply to shaws

Just started reading. This quote below is useful to know. I was a bit confused by all the feedback loops, originally thought there was only one before reading on here that there were several:

"Cortisol functions in a negative feedback loop with the hypothalamus and pituitary gland. Once it enters your bloodstream, its presence signals to your hypothalamus and pituitary gland to slow down so that they don’t trigger any additional stress hormones. These organs also regulate thyroid hormone production, so that slows down as well."

Vicious circle!

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to

I wake up with a strange surge of energy very like the feeling of what your hands and feet feel like if you standing on the edge of a cliff and looking down. If you get my meaning. Had this a long while never any other time other than on waking up a very weird feeling.

in reply to Suffolklady

That is interesting, I think I sometimes experience the same. In some ways it seems like an exaggeration of the normal waking process, temperature, heartbeat and blood pressure etc rise , getting you ready for the day. Occasionally I wake up (often from a vivid dream) with the pulse thundering in my ears - once so loud I couldn't hear external sounds. It decreases to normal within seconds, although sometimes there's a headache and generally feeling unable to move which last longer.

Not paralysed just intensely lethargic and strange. There's no feel of panic, though I suspect adrenaline may still be involved, and the dream is never a nightmare, or anything close to it either.

But the adrenals play a big part in the natural waking process anyway. So the question is whether it's because of an adrenal problem affecting the thyroid or the low thyroid levels causing the adrenals to try and compensate but overdoing it?

Or both affecting each other? :-O

Suffolklady profile image
Suffolklady in reply to

It’s a total mine field. Mines not extreme like that although the vivid strange dreams are the same with me. I don’t have raise heart beat just this surge of energy in my limbs lasting for about 30 seconds or so when waking.

in reply to Suffolklady

I don't know if my heartbeat is faster, just it sounds much harder. I've never been awake enough to put the lamp and my glasses on, focus on the clock second hand and find the wrist pulse before it goes back to normal

I've also found this on Mary Shomon's site

thyroid-info.com/articles/s...

A couple of quotes (emphasis and bracketed comments added)

"If low-thyroid people with these symptoms [a long list] are put on thyroid hormone alone, they sometimes respond negatively. These people may have coexistent, but hidden, low adrenal. [In your case it seems the other way around!] If they take thyroid hormone by itself, the resultant increased metabolism may accelerate the low adrenal problem.

...Adrenal insufficiency, especially when unmasked by the addition of thyroid hormone, is unpleasant and uncomfortable. To compound the problem, the doctor and patient then may wrongly assume that thyroid replacement has been a mistake."

CapnM profile image
CapnM

Well intended people in this forum will tell you that starting on 25 is too low. I have an alternate experience.

I started on 25 and my GP is on the NICE committee for thyroid and has been treating thyroditis for 30 years. In my humble view she is a brilliant GP.

I was borderline TSH reading (sub clinical) but my symptoms brought my life to a standstill. She told me to try 25 then like you alternate 25 and 50 if felt I needed more.

Both initially and now, 25 has been fine and has transformed my life but it has been a bumpy ride and I appreciate it's still early days (18 months in)

Last winter I had a worsening of conditions and went to 37.5 (i.e. 25/50) which was successful. Later on in spring I had more symptoms and went to 50 a day. I had a terrible time. Per this forum I thought it may have been changing brand as the new 50 pill was different. I then returned back 2 x 25 of old brand but it made no difference.

After 2 months I gave up on 50 and returned to 25 over summer. Now going into winter I am staying on 25 and focusing more on levo / vitamin D and other lifestyle changes. So far so good, actually right now I feel brilliant (yeh!) but if I feel the symptoms coming back I will go to 37.5. I have taken on the advice on this forum around blood testing and vitamins and will do my first home blood test kit this weekend.

My learning had been....

we are all different and this 'thing' manifests itself on diverse ways. You need to find a dose and regime that works for you.

It can be a complex series of trial and errors with a multi week/month feedback loop which can make it hard to get a grip off. I keep a diary and change things I discrete steps so gain confidence on cause and effect.

Have patience... all dose changes take time to stabilise and can have initial adverse effects.

Some people were raised in the generation of 'GP knows best' or have adoptwd this through family expwrience. Unfortunately this might not be true with modern complex issues. We are now in the information age and you may fi d you need to do your own research. It pays on thyroiditis to have a healthy skeptisim of healthcare worker experience and be prepared to challenge them. But always work with them initially.

I'm not seeking to contradict the very good advice on the forum but my own experience suggests the 'starting on 25 means you have bad GP' could be wrong. Good luck.

P. S. I relocated from London to Suffolk over summer... Lovely place!

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