Anyone else had a unpleasant experience with their blood draw lately? My last (nhs) one has resulted in an ugly haematoma which isn’t usual either for me or with this phlebotomist. Wondering if the size of NHS needles has changed?
Nasty NHS Blood Draw: Anyone else had a... - Thyroid UK
Nasty NHS Blood Draw
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Minimol
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How strange! I had a blood test last Tuesday and exactly the same has happened. It was my regular nurse, who is always very quick and never any messing about telling me I “have very small veins”. I have a purple and red inner elbow. Anyone else?
I had one 4 weeks ago which was quite bad and left my arm very sore throughout for 4 or 5 days. Arm wasnt bruised but very sore putting needle in and taking it out.
Same. Mine was two days ago. A failure and I have had to book in again. Two attempts and 2 plasters. I ran out of patience, a waste of my time and very bruised arm. Having had regular blood tests for the past 15 years, I now know for certain that some nurses are good at the blood draw and others are not.
That's what I was going to say. I had a huge bruise last year. I happened to be talking about it when a phlebotomist was around, she said the nurse had missed the vein! Also about 18 months ago I ended up with a lump after a blood draw. I had a blood test about 2 weeks ago and the nurse was brilliant - though they should all be when it comes to doing their job.
A senior nurse I know was saying yesterday about having a job (from an agency) where she was just taking bloods and had told the surgery it was a waste of money paying someone like her when they could use other staff rather than trained nurses to do the job (not staff at the surgery but someone probably trained to take blood). Sounds horrendous to me!
Edited. I've just seen Kittykat2's reply regarding receptionists training as phlebotomists. I still don't like that idea. I wonder how long they train for. Despite training I still feel they don't know sufficient about the body in general to do a good job 
Seems to be everywhere we have a shortage of nurses at our surgery
As they appear to be out on training!! hard to get an appointment then it's an agency nurse.
Apparently a lot of the receptionists have decided to train as phlebotomists to help with the gap.😩
Not sure I want any old Tom Dick or Harry doing my bloods to be honest.
Too many patients not enough people to cope and doctors leaving just gets worse
Same in Australia too I was in hospital recently for a fortnight. Each doctor would be allowed 2 to 3tries,with canulars they hurt like anything when they're not qualified. I just got told it's a teaching hospital. Plus I had to have daily bloods taken. Because I had IV antibiotics that were dangerous to. Once many would come from overseas to study medicine and stay working in Australia as more of these countries economies are growing many return to work in hospitals in their country of birth.. I don't know statistics. But many student doctor's weren't born here. But don't see many in 30s or 40s working.
My GP’s receptionist reckons she’s a phlebotomist. After pincushioning my arm she managed to get not one drop of blood but caused a lot of bruising.
I’d have been better off doing it myself. And I’m not the best person to practise on - I can be a bit fainty! 😱🤸🏿♀️🥛
I had a dreadful one recently by a doctor. I sent him away in the end after multiple attempts that resulted in blood in my cupped hand but none in a tube. Other than when a very qualified friend is available to do it, I'll be sticking to the phlebotomy department at the local hospital where possible in future, despite the waiting times.
The scary thing is how little training is required to get qualified to draw blood. Even for somebody with no clinical background, it's just a two day course costing in the region of a couple of hundred pounds. Having said that, one of the best blood draws that I've had was by somebody on her first day in the job (that was at the local hospital).
ask for the butterfly it's the smallest! pass it on!!It's all I ever let them touch me with! when they do that and it hurts you and upsets you, it changes your bloodwork! It happened
to me years ago in Boston. I needed a 3 hour glucose tolerance test, and the girl kept going in and out of the same hole until I yelled"that's enough" so when I saw my PC in 3! hrs. and he said i would have to do over, I said"Not that nurse" and told him why, He told me tonforget about the do over, because it was my being sonupset that affected my blood work!
Many years ago my daughter and I went to a different phlebotomy dept at a city hospital as she was seeing a specialist there and it saved an extra trip to the GP's. The nurse was oddly impersonal. She completely misfired and there was a lot of bruising after obtusely trying to use my daughter's 'bad arm' - the one without nicely visible veins. My daughter assertively said she'd struggle to find one and this nurse seemed to enjoy putting my daughter at risk. We told the consultant, but have no idea what happened .. never saw her again.
Hi minimol
Can I tell you it took nine attempts for my hospital to get my blood I was bruised to bits,,when I was admitted to hospital for thiyroid Storm the person who was putting the cunular in tolally missed and my arm filled with fluid,,then it took a further three attempts to fit the canular..just had blood work done on Monday at my hospital that took 3 attempts..was admitted on Monday night with kidney stones needed blood that took two attempts...I'm use to it...I found that the people who were taking the blood were trainees if they didn't get it they handed the job to a more experienced person I'm now black and blue on my inner arms....great...😡😡
Hello Birkie
Sorry to hear that. Did you know lack of magnesium can cause kidney stones. This might be of interest:
Magnesium binds oxalate in the digestive tract and inhibits the formation of calcium oxalate crystals in urine (Kohri 1988; Massey 2005). ... Another study in 311 patients with kidney stone disease evaluated magnesium levels in urine, a known marker of dietary intake of magnesium.
lifeextension.com › Pag...
Kidney Stones and Magnesium | Life Extension
JaneCx
Hi everyone - as someone who had/has a severe metal allergy - they always had to use a baby fine needle on me and still do - if they come at me with that needle that resembles a tent pole - I stop them immediately and say sorry but I have to for medical reasons have a fine needle - I suggest you all do the same - I daresay the NHS has bought in cheap needles or similar as so many are suffering - or as you say the phlebotomists (why do we always have to use the American equivalent for medical terms these days - what was wrong with hematologists !!!)
Because haematologist are consultants (doctors) and phlebotomists are blood takers (usually non clinical and possibly not even nurses)....
Yes you are right - I should have known that - but can't remember what we called people who drew blood before the Americanisation of our departmental names.
The worst one I had taken was in the 1980's by a surgeon who was going to be operating on me - I got to my car and was screaming in agony as my arm had gone numb and painful and there was a huge lump - good job my Parents went with me and rushed me back into the hospital - I don't know what had happened but they went into emergency mode and put some back stuff on my arm in rather a hurry - I dont think it was iodine as it didn't smell like iodine - anyway - my arm bruise went from the the needle site down the arm almost to the wrist and right up to the upper arm it was horrendous and people at work were asking if I had had an accident - when I went to see the surgeon just before the op he said good god who did that to you - I said you did - he looked very sheepish as I thought to myself and stopped myself saying - I hope you are better at being a surgeon than taking blood. I had trouble after the op - they said they couldn't stop me bleeding - I was taking Vitamin E because I was a smoker and was worried about getting a blood clot - but the blood draw he did was nothing to do with taking Vitamin E - he hit something he shouldn't have !!!
Gosh not good....was it venepuncture?
Hi - do you mean was it via the vein
As in was that word we use to use 😀 but yes strictly speaking the act of puncturing the veins.
Haematologists can also be biomedical scientists not necessarily consultants. I am a BMS but will say microbiologist as that’s my specialty but I’m not a consultant. Those working in haematology will say the same. 😀
Hiya I’m a clinical chemistry BMS, I just didn’t want to muddy the waters!!! 😀 Of course I’m just sad I’m not an “ologist”, but have wonky eyes so can’t look down a microscope (histo and haem) off limits and apologies but it smells in micro so biochemistry it was! Lol
Yeah we are Billy no mates 😂😂. Our autoclave was down the end by biochem and haem. The moaning we used to get, they’d walk past holding their noses. I couldn’t smell a thing.
do you ask for butterfly? Smallest!
Pale blue butterfly is smaller, dark green is larger
And are there different sizes of needle too? Longer? Wider?
How funny. I had a blood test on Tuesday this week, everything was quick and normal, no problems locating my vein and it was done within a couple of seconds. But I have an almighty bruise on my inner elbow. I never bruise from blood tests, well, never anymore than a teeny tiny bruise, but this is the size of a 50 pence piece! My arm has been very aches since too. I thought this was odd and have been mentioning it to people saying “look at the size of this blood test bruise” 😂 so it has had a noticeable effect in me. So maybe something has changed, like the needle size, like you suggested.
I find blood draws much better than 50-60 years ago. Age 11 after my doctor and her husband also a doctor failed to get any blood from me I was sent to the hospital, there my finger was cut at the side of my nail and the blood sucked out via a pipette. After that I was not bothered by multiple attempts on both arms to get any blood out. I find nowadays that the new finer needles are much better and blood draws are not at all traumatic.
Now when nurses fail the first and second time and apologise I always have to tell them I know it is a problem. My diabetes nurse last week got three tubes with one attempt. We agreed that cake was called for . x
I've never had a issue with NHS blood withdrawal. I'm in North London and the nurses have always took care and always professional.
The last one I had by the nhs, she hit a nerve and went through the vein. I paid last time and there wasn't a problem.
I think the nhs are under too much pressure and have to rush
In reply to several comments here about using a small guage needle equates to less pain.
Generally not true with blood draws. The smaller the guage the more "sucking pressure" on the vein which can cause it to collapse.
Also larger guages are usually required for blood tests because a small guage ruptures the blood cells causing their contents to fall out and affect how things are seperated in the centrifuge (amongst other things) and ruining the test.
So much to consider; the skill of the phlebo, temperature both ambient and the patient, hydration etc etc.
Lot of problems seem to happen when the operator tries to push the collecting vial onto the Vacutainer needle effectively pushing the needle out of the vein, when it was "in" so to speak.
Are there then certain blood draw problems that mean that the blood test will not get a result?
I reckon a "full blood count" might get rejected because all you would see is a mush of exploded cells!
I had a vein puncture last year and never received any result including TSH. Do you know if this type of injury would mean that TSH still measurable, or where I could find out more? Also is there any test that might show damage, as elbow now very stiff and site still saw and stinging and arm can go numb/ pins and needles. So now not sure if I should ask for this vein or arm to be excluded from any further blood tests?
*gauge
I once had "gaurd" corrected in an essay -- can only think I'd been reading about gauges.
Ah thank you! I kept looking at "gauge" and thought it looked a bit odd. 
The rate this year is galloping by, it'll soon be time for greengages...
True what spongecat says 👍
I also had a contusion either side of pin hole last week, it can happen sometimes, especially if you have associated Polycytheamia.
Understood Spongecat but if same phlebo, same arm, but dramatically different experience, my question is what’s changed? I had my draw on Wednesday and the haematoma is still an ugly 3” purple/yellow patch. My daughter had her draw (same phlebotomist) Friday and hers has now grown to a 2” blue bruise. Never happened to either of us before.
Hi Minimol
Perhaps ring fhe surgery and speak to practice manager, and tell him/her what has happened to you both. Ask if they have changed suppliers re needles? Take picture of arms. It should be noted in your records in case it happens again. I wouldnt want receptionists taking my blood draw but there may not be a choice in the future with the state the NHS is in. Im medical secretary and would not be any good at taking blood which is why I dont do private blood testing at home!
JaneCx
Good advice thanks.
My most recent draw was fine, but last time and the time before I had a bruise that matched the shape of the tape they use afterwards...I also noticed that it seemed particularly sticky, and difficult to remove.
I’ve had the occasional bruise from a blood draw in the past, but it’s usually been a rounder shape.
Funny you should mention it...…….. 
I have awkward veins that collapse and often need the paediatric needles. I got so fed up of being used like a pincushion by people who can't get blood from me - then a phlebotomist told me it's not a problem with my veins, it's the skill (or lack thereof) of the person taking the blood. I now find someone in the practice who can reliably get blood and insist on having them. However, my usual phlebotomist had to have two tries last week and for the first time ever, left a bruise - interesting that a number of us have similar experience. Weirdly, when she put the needle in the second vein, I had pain further down the vein near my wrist. It's such a trial at times. When I had to have a short synthacen test a few weeks ago the nurse botched it so badly twice that she had to get another nurse to take my blood and the bruise in my arm is still faintly there over a month later!
I think we all know that it's the same for Smear Tests too. Some seem to be in and out (literally) without younoticing, and others are tortuous. I used to avoid one particular nurse at our surgery, until the time that she physically spotted a lump that the GP could nt see (I couldfeelit) despite 4 appointments. She refered me for removal straight away and had done all the papewrk b4 even mentioning it. I view her in an entirely different lightnow
I worked in a hematology lab in high school in 1962 and was taught how to draw blood. I was taught to NOT push down on the needle while it is in the arm!! When someone pushes down on the needle with the cotton ball (or gauze) while the needle is in the arm it causes the tip of the needle to slice through the back of blood vessel like a knife! Not only does this cause the hemotoma (blood leaks out the back) but it weakens that part of your blood vessel for future blood draws and causes scar tissue on the back of the vein. Subconsciously the lab technician thinks that the blood will squirt on them, but if they took off the tourniquet it may leak a little but not squirt. I actually ask the lab technician to not push down on the cotton while the needle is in my arm. They think I am crazy, but it's not their arm!
The phlebotomist used the cotton wool ball afterwards, but didn’t press down on it while drawing the blood.
The damage occurs at the end of the blood draw. The tourniquet is removed after the needle is in the arm and blood is flowing into the little glass vial, (or if you are having other blood work) and nothing touches the needle during this time. When the blood draw is done, the phlebotomist is supposed to lay a cotton ball or a piece of gauze (tourniquet off) over the needle with no pressure. Then pull out the needle. Then push down on the cotton ball or gauze. Then they put something to hold the cotton ball in place until the bleeding stops. The mistake is when they are in a hurry or not thinking, and they push down on the cotton with the needle still in your arm pushing the needle to cut the back of your vein. This all happens in a split second. I have to tell them each time when I first sit down. They act like they do not ever make that mistake and some get offended, but it is my arm! I am 74 and running out of places to draw blood, so I do not need more scar tissue in the veins, which can cause poor circulation later in life.
That makes so much sense Jim! I also wonder if the tourniquet is usually removed earlier.
I also had a large bruise lasting nearly 10 days after last blood draw, even though I sat and pressed down on the plaster for over 5 minutes after the draw. (Nurses don't seem to tell you here to do that - it almost always results in a big 'ugly' if you don't.) I was happy though that the new nurse swabbed my arm first. I was very shocked last year when a phlebotomist jabbed me and took my blood w/o swabbing first. (I took my own swab in next time.) When I asked about why, she said she'd been doing the job for years and had never swabbed anyone. (They swab at the hospital where I first went for blood tests in UK). I've lived in 4 countries and never seen such a thing before!
My mother had difficult-to-find veins in her elbows, and consistently ended up with large bruises whenever blood was drawn. I noticed that the veins on the backs of her hands stood out quite well and suggested they use that for their draw. Problem solved. Whenever someone balked at using that site, I would tell them "She will end up with huge bruises and you will end up with no blood samples if you insist on using the crooks of her elbows." Left unsaid was that I would put up a huge stink if they insisted on doing it their way.
I had a blood test 14 months ago and it was very painful withdrawing it. She had damaged a nerve and I have had tremendous pain on and off ever since. It has finally got a little better.
I wont let anyone draw blood from that arm and more! Some nurses are better than others and some are hopeless!
I have very deep veins however, I've found a way to bring them bulging out. First,
I live in Florida so it is always warm, or hot out, with high humidity and one of the phlebotomist's informed me that blood vessels tend to get bigger in hot weather and exercise outside. I workout and run a lot and there just happens to be a gym within one block of the blood drawing facility I go to, so I always go to the gym 20 or 30 minutes before the draw and do bicep curls: it never (very seldom) fails.
Mmmm well I always press hard and for as long as the phlebotomist requires before she applies the cotton wool ball and tape over the site. I also don’t remove that until they advise it - an hour.
I’m convinced they’ve changed needle size or technique.
I had problems with it all the time. Every time I went for tests, I prayed that everything would go well. But usually, I would get a bruise; then, my arm wouldn't unbend without terrible pain.
And only recently, I found a phlebotomist who takes blood without me suffering for several weeks afterward. He works at the clinic, which is not far from my house. He told me that he graduated from these courses a few months ago — phlebotomynearyou.com/phleb... .
Now I only go to him, even if it's a lengthy registration. My comfort is more important to me than waiting time.
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