Any help with results please. So not sure why it says borderline. I will also post my other results for help. I can’t seem to add more than one photo!!
Blood results help please: Any help with results... - Thyroid UK
Blood results help please
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Flecmac
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They probably mean 'borderline hyper' because your TSH is suppressed. It's rubbish, of course, because your Frees are not a lot more than mid-range.
Besides, you're taking levo, so you can't possibly be hyper, and you're not even over-medicated, because your FT3 isn't over-range. I would suggest your refuse any attempts to lower your dose. 
Thank you. Endo said that if TSH dropped further (previous results TSH - 0.07 (0.27-4.20), FT4-22.2 (9.0-26.0), FT3-5.7 (2.8-7.1) then he would advise alternating 75mcg and 50mcg instead of 75mcg every day. It’s so hard to explain to them and they can’t offer T3 any more!! Maybe combo would be better for me.
You're welcome.
I have edited the last post.
Yes, it is hard to get through to them. That's what they were taught in med school, and what they learn in med school is sacred. They don't want anybody trying to tell the otherwise! So, if he 'advises' reducing your levo, just refuse.
I don't see why a combo would be better for you. You appear to convert very well. And, your TSH would still be suppressed. Possible that your pituitary isn't working very well to be so low on just levo - and such a small dose. But, adding T3 could make it undetectable. But I don't think you need T3, just a slight increase in levo if you still have symptoms.
Thanks. Endo says......
people with hypothyroidism, even after having normal tft’s, clinically and biochemically they become euthyroid, people still tend to have symptoms which is around 20% of patients, but in her (my) case she (me) also suffers with fibromyalgia, migraine, arthritis, depression and IBS so most of the symptoms are a combination of these above problems.
😫
Personally I think you might benefit from addition of small dose of T3
Perhaps you have DIO2 gene variation
Would you consider DNA testing.
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
Wider testing
bluehorizonmedicals.co.uk/t...
Can be helpful in getting trial of T3
A pro T3 endocrinologist might give private prescription regardless
It doesn’t say how to get the test. I don’t know how I can cope with more tests etc. I’m under a few hospital departments and my health dominates my life! I wish all this could be done on nhs as it does at least take a little pressure of the sick patient! I have mentioned T3 to Endo who was recommended by someone on here who has a private script from him but he said no to me.
DIO2 via Regenerus is a spit test, so very easy....though it requires reasonable amount of spit
Takes 4 weeks to get results
Blue Horizon is just a swab test I think, (like you see in police dramas - cooton bud on inside of cheek) or it may be spit test like Regenerus
Thank you. Which would you recommend and roughly how much do they cost please? Could it throw up scary health issues, hence counselling?
Here's the link about ordering from Regenerus
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
Cost is £86.25 plus £65 counselling
Counselling is compulsory with this DNA test and can help understand the results
Thank you. A bit expensive. 🥴
I understand that
It helped me get funding for my T3 on NHS....I didn't do test until AFTER starting on private prescription of T3.
I decided to get tested after the difference for me, between just Levothyroxine and Levothyroxine plus T3, was nothing sort of astonishing
From being virtually immobile to normal life. More info on my profile
Ask your endocrinologist for trial of T3 on private prescription
Thank you. Will try again but won’t be until August as left me longer this time with bloods x 2 in between. He didn’t seem keen although had given it to someone here.
Hi
I would seriously not listen to your endo, I have similar other conditions ME, fibro etc and your symptoms aren't due to these issues because I self medicated for a two week trial till my pills ran out of my last bit of T3 and all my symptoms reduced massively I personally believe if you have hashimoto's and have these other conditions it's due to a possible conversion issue (due to hormone issues in my case which has proven to be a massive problem for me) leaky gut and food sensitivities causing inflammation you need to concentrate on healing your gut and reducing all food triggers out of your diet aswell as using supplements if you tolerate them selenium zinc vitd b complex but your b12 is sky high so iad get an up to date test result of that to see what it is first incase your suffering from to much and iron and detox and treat your adrenals and your symptoms will very likely reduce as your thyroid test results are very good, you could negotiate with be endo if you really wanted 75 and ask him to trust that you understand your body and will dose by symtoms so if you feel really hyper you will reduce and do 50/75 but to me if your results of tsh have gone down it means your over medicated and your thyroid doesn't need that much T4 because your already making enough your body is converting well so I wouldn't continue to suppress it there is no need.
What's your current lifestyle/ excercise, diet, gf, dairy free aip,foods etc?
How long have you been hypo ?
what supplements at you taking ?
B12 was sky high because I was supplementing when my levels were actually OK. I have tried to explain about leaky gut etc and looked at Isabella Wentz etc but I really do not know where to start, although I have followed the Fodmap diet and now the introducing, it’s a gruelling experience and I have not felt much better for it. I don’t know how much more research and self help I can cope with!!! It’s all too much when and in pain every day. Can’t be too much Iron as I e posted the results which I think are low. I don’t see my Endo until August now. I walk each day even though I’m pain etc. Hood diet although on Fodmap, but still healthy enough. I am gluten free but not dairy as dietician told me to increase fat in milk etc to gain some weight.
Iam in same situation as you I feel your pain I am to chronically sick and in pain every day but I wouldn't listen to your dietitian your inflammation and pain is probably due to you eating dairy and sugar if you do and nightshades if you still eat them I have cut out nightshades and dairy and it really helped the only think I can't get off at the moment is sugar but that is massive one to cut out it's vital to reduce inflammation and reduce antibodies
I have loads of books to an following Isabella wentz and I feel very overwhelmed too at times so I understand but those are the main triggers and it's worth having a hair sensitivity test to determine other sensitivities, defiencies and toxins too if you haven't already.
How much do you weigh? Iam only 46 kg which is around 7 stone so I am likely less than you at 5ft4.5 but I went to a dietician and he didn't have a clue about autoimmune disease so please don't listen to them they have no clue what they are on about you need to atleast get a sensitivity test as it will likely show what your eating your sensitive too.
Poppycock! That's doctor speak for 'I'm treating her by the TSH because I don't really know much about thyroid, so I'm hedging my bets about what's wrong with her'! He is only allowed to say something like that if he's got your FT4 and FT3 in a better place and has stopped fussing about the TSH!
You could easily increase your levo by 25 mcg and see what happens. But, if he insists on raising your TSH, you're always going to be ill.
Could certainly be that you'd benefit from the addition of a little T3 as SlowDragon says, but my point is that at the moment you're a little under-medicated on levo and your endo is talking rubbish. You could also benefit from an increase in levo because your conversion looks good. The DIO2 gene variation has nothing to do with the low TSH, which appears to be the issue, here - as far as your endo is concerned, anyway. And he just doesn't know what he's talking about.
But frequently if we have low TSH, conversion is a problem
I didn't do DIO2 gene test until after starting T3
It certainly helped in my argument to get T3 on NHS
But you only have to look at her FT4 and FT3 to see that her conversion is pretty good. I'm not saying that adding T3 won't help, I'm just saying that an increase in levo would probably help just as well.
But that's not even the problem here. The problem is that her endo wants to reduce her dose of levo to raise her TSH. Adding T3 will certainly not do that. Another problem here is that her endo - who is doubtless a diabetes specialist - has no idea what he's talking about.
You could try Low Dose Naltrexone - it will help you with the thyroid & arthritis and Fybro too.....For Arthritis you could add : Boron (build up to 30 - 60mg per day/ hold for 6 months and drop like I have to 30mg Boron (from Hakala in US) You could start with Swanson's 6mg Boron x 2 times per day then 3 times till you need to buy the 30mg....5 HTP is great for anxiety & depression; I also had 7.7 cholesterol and I've been using Flora Pro-Activ buttery every day ( the rare time I use dairy !) and it's dropped; but apparently the high cholesterol I had isn't that bad for you anyway....Good Luck
Hi can I ask where you get low dose naltrexone from are you based in the UK as I asked a nhs pain specialist which I was referred too and he refused and said he wouldn't give it me even if he could ! And told me to do mindfulness 3 times a day for 20 minutes when I have to work 10 hours shifts.
🤔😤
So I told him him to stick it I was absolutely fuming and that he had no clue what he was talking about and maybe he should go back to education in the us! So the only way I have found in the UK your able to get it is if you pay to go to a private consultant and then pay monthly for it.
😟😩
Your Dr needs to write a letter to say what condition you are struggling with (perhaps don't say why you need it ?) and that you scan & send to emedonline (or Clinic 158) then they send your prescription to Dickson's Chemist in Scotland (there's another at North of UK) Good LUck; I think the prescriptions are £25 for 3; You also pay an ANnual Membership of £20 plus per year....You start the LDN low & slow at 0.5ml (some start at 0.25ml) . I started with Liquid LDN ( whilst adjusting to find your ideal dose) Now I use the sublingual drops as it's easier (4 drops = 2ml which is as strong as 2.5ml of the liquid LDN) Good Luck
Are u in UK ? My go practice is rubbish they are under nah not private and I asked my doctor and she said no one will give it me and she didn't have a clue it could be used for autoimmune disease she just said that's for drug addicts I can't give it you ! Umm
Yes I am in UK; My Dr wouldn't give me but he agreed for me to try it and wrote me the letter; Very few Drs in UK will prescribe it as it's a new drug: we use low dose 0.5ml-3.5ml unlike the drug addicts & alcoholics who use 50mg at a time ! Just print some documents and join LDN REsearch & and Treating thyroid with LDN group and there you can print stuff to educate your DR One of the groups : facebook.com/groups/LDNthyr...
Iam abit confused are the group's on here ? I went on the lnd site which documents do I need to print IAm not sure how do I get my doctor to agree to it if they don't agree to it as I printed a load of research to show the pain specialist doctor and he patronised me it was awful as I made the GP refer me as they wouldn't give it me and she won't do private prescription either so maybe you are in a private practice as they are more liant ?
I have ME, fibro and hashimoto's on my gp records and they don't have clue it could help with everything as I am allergic to paracetamol and alot of meds IAm sensitive too so wanted to try it to help relieve my pain and they just said no IAm not doing it I was so upset because they just don't care I showed her the research and she said well I have no knowledge so won't give it you so what do you mean you send a form to clinc 158? As surely your doctor would have to agree to give you a private prescription where mine is refusing me because they abide by NHS even tho I said you use it on a lose dose it's not just for drug addicts look at this research and she dismissed everything??
SlowDragonAdministrator
Plus high cholesterol is linked to being hypothyroid, and likely still under treated
nhs.uk/conditions/statins/c...
You need vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12 tested
Yes Endo said that my high cholesterol was because of hypothyroidism, but GP said diet and exercise which doesn’t apply to me although my Mum had high cholesterol.
My vitamin D is 112 (50.0-200.0) it was only 50 in 2017 and I have used a spray since then.
Ferritin 74 (12.0-300.0)
My hair has been falling out more lately.
B12 was > 2000 (191-663) end of last year as I had been taking supplements, which I don’t now.
Do you also supplement vitamin B complex as well as B12 ......or instead of B12 supplement
Has folate been tested?
Supplementing a good quality daily vitamin B complex, one with folate in not folic acid may be beneficial.
chriskresser.com/folate-vs-...
B vitamins best taken in the morning after breakfast
Recommended brands on here are Igennus Super B complex. (Often only need one tablet per day, not two. Certainly only start with one tablet per day after breakfast. Retesting levels in 6-8 weeks ).
Or Jarrow B-right is popular choice, but is large capsule
If you are taking vitamin B complex, or any supplements containing biotin, remember to stop these 7 days before any blood tests, as biotin can falsely affect test results
endo.confex.com/endo/2016en...
endocrinenews.endocrine.org...
Ferritin is dropping
Eating liver or liver pate once a week, plus other iron rich foods like black pudding, prawns, spinach, pumpkin seeds and dark chocolate, plus daily vitamin C can help improve iron absorption
FERRITIN
healthunlocked.com/thyroidu...
drhedberg.com/ferritin-hypo...
restartmed.com/hypothyroidi...
I was taking B complex spray last year but as my levels were good and B 12 very high, I stopped, but I now use b complex yeast flakes. Avoid tablets as struggle. Folate was 10.0 (3.3-19.3) Dec 2018 an increase from 2017.
Query where you say ‘Ferritin is dropping’? I have liver, in fact having it today. Also spinach, dark chocolate. I don’t take vitamin c, but it was in one of my sprays. Struggle to find supplements that I can take, tablets would have to be tiny.
The fact you find swallowing tablets also suggests under medication
I found very similar until T3 was added
Roughly where in the UK are you?
Think you need endocrinologist who's prepared to give trial of T3
Nottingham.
The one I see is quite a distance but was recommended on here, although he’s very busy meaning I’ve only seem him once out of three times. He gives private script for T 3 but when I asked he said not on nhs, so will have to ask again about private. Not until August though. And might not be him.
Private prescription enables access to cheap T3 from Europe. 31 Euro for 100 x 20mcg Thybon Henning. Typically most patients take between 10mcg-20mcg per day as 2-3 split doses of 5mcg
So cost is between 15-30p per day
UK 20mcg T3 is £7 per single tablet
Thanks.
Stop your nutritional yeast 4 days or so before blood tests as it contains biotin, which can affect test results.
Yes, think I only did 3 though.
Blue Horizon say 3-4 days, but I think Medichecks recommend a week.
SlowDragonAdministrator
IBS - are you on strictly gluten free diet?
Fibromyalgia is often linked to low FT3
I have been gluten free for 18 months and my TPO ab have dropped from 1300 to 526. I have never known that Fibro can be linked to lie T3. Is mine low?
If you have DIO2 gene variation then low FT3 is not always reflected in blood test results
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/testin...
To explain this paper briefly, the DIO2 gene activates tri-iodothyronine (T3) and the researchers found that a tiny fault in this gene could mean that although the body gets enough T3, the brain doesn’t.
The researchers found that patients on levothyroxine (T4) alone felt worse if the faulty DIO2 gene was inherited through one parent and worse still if they inherited the faulty gene from both parents.
The patients on this study were given T4 only for a set period and then combination treatment of both T4 and T3. The patients who had normal genes did not feel any different on combination treatment. However, those who had one faulty gene felt better on the combination treatment and those with both faulty genes felt better still.
This means that there is a possibility that patients who are on levothyroxine alone and still have symptoms may improve with the addition of T3.
Because this faulty gene causes a deficiency of T3 within the cells, the usual thyroid hormone function tests will not show up a problem. This means that your TSH, FT4 and FT3 blood tests will look normal
Few links about fibromyalgia
healthrising.org/blog/2019/...
thyroiduk.org/tuk/research/...
thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/relate...
stopthethyroidmadness.com/f...
prohealth.com/library/new-t...
chriskresser.com/low-t3-syn...
clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show...
holtorfmed.com/download/chr...
Fibromyalgia
healthrising.org/blog/2019/...
prohealth.com/library/new-t...
.
Thank you 😊
Your tsh is low but within range.
How do you feel, are you losing hair, losing weight,
Do you have any signs of Graves disease
I lost weight last year after major op and since on Fodmap eating more cheese and having full fat milk I’m back to normal weight around 8 stone. I have been losing hair for few years but it seems worse now. I have had palpitations for at least 5 years on 25 mcg or nothing and have had what feels like Adrenalin rushes at night for few years too. Hard to know if I have signs of graves as not new symptoms really.
Very unlikely to be Graves as thyroid hormones are quite low and symptoms are hypo. The test for Graves is TRab or TSI antibodies. Also not likely to be central hypo as thyroid hormones are a bit high for that. To tell, you'd need the results from before you were on meds. If it showed low or normal TSH (well in range, not at top of range), and low thyroid hormones, it could be.
Yes, mid range TSH and lowish T4/T3 but not too bad.
So could be central hypo, in which case your TSH should always be disregarded. My TSH was 0.54, free T4 14 (12-22) and free T3 3.3 (3.1-6.8) before meds with hypo symptoms but not weight gain because, I assume, of my low cortisol.
Dear
From a clinical perspective , I don't know how you were diagnosed as hypo as again your tsh is low.
Hypothyroidism consists of having a high tsh
and low thyroid hormones.
In my opinion it looks like you may have have
central hypothyroidism
but I know your going to say
your doctor said you are hypo
but technically it couldn't be unless
it is central hypothyroidism
Hypothyroidism is when thyroid hormones are low; TSH is not a thyroid hormone. I have had central hypo for years - also low cortisol and low sex hormones.
She is losing her hair and her tsh is borderline low
And she is fairly thin if not very thin, it sounds like Graves to me
I am thin/normal weight (because I have cortisol problems), am losing my hair, have bottom of range or just under TSH with under range free T4 and in range free t3 and have central hypo. TSH is not a good predictor of anything when on meds and are very unlikely to have Graves with such low free T4
In central hypothyroidism , the tsh can be slightly elevated
and is sometimes misdiagnosed as
subclinical hypothyroidism
though your right about the rest
What it could be is somthing called central hypothyroidism,
I was first thinking it sounded like Graves Disease
Look up a pharmacist-Isabella Wentz and see if
Graves Disease matches with your symptoms
Good luck
Waste of time to check symptoms for Graves as her thyroid hormones are not even high in range. The only way to tell Graves from a Hashis hyper swing (which she also doesn't seem to be having) in that thyroid hormones are usually much higher with Graves and TRab or TSI antibodies are high, whereas with Hashis, TPO and/or TG antobodies are high.
TPO ab were 1300 for years, reduced recently to 526 by following gluten free diet.
I wonder what the Reverse T3 is ? The free T4 is slightly higher but OK otherwise. I know they won't test thyroid on NHS so I do it privately via Medichecks and even get the nurse to visit at home...Good LUck !
rT3 is a another red herring. Healthy people make about 60/40 RT3/T3 from their T4, but that varies according to what the body needs. rT3 just converts to T2 and then T1 in the body and is then eliminated - in a few hours. Many things can cause high rT3 - basically anything that means that your system thinks it needs to slow down - exercise, dieting, acute or chronic illness - means that t4 will convert more rt3. But rt3 doesn't stop T3 from working at all in any way. many years ago, it was though that it did,. but that has been disproved. So spending money on testing rT3 is futile really as it doesn't tell you why your rT3 result is what it is. It might be worth testing if you have an over range/top of range free t4 with low in range free T3 and are on a high dose of levo. But that doesn't apply in this case.
I was told to always check the rT3 as it's ideal to be close to 11; if not, one can add T3....yes the rT3 can be due to low iron etc...
In what range would it have to be 11 and why? Ranges differ according to the lab and machine used. And what would you do if it wasn't 11? You've no way of knowing why it isn't 11, so you can't change it. Everyone is an individual and the amount of rT3 is not constant. I think it's just a ploy to get you to spend more money on tests for no good reason, left over from the days when it was thought that rt3 blocked T3 receptors which we now know is not true. On the Internet, people just see things and repeat them without doing any research so they become factoids.
The rT3 ranges are usually: 10.00 - 24.00 It's best if it's near 11; If not, one needs to address : the iron deficiency (all 4 irons apparently), the Adrenals ....the easiest to correct it is by adding a little T3; You could join this group and they'll help you out: facebook.com/groups/LDNthyr...
Why is it best near 11 in that range and at what time of day and what does that prove? I suspect it's as individual as other thyroid levels. It seems that individuals have quite narrow set points and deviation from them, even within the normal range causes symptoms. I really don't care what my rT3 is, as I wouldn't know what was making it the level it is or what the significance was. I take T3 only. As far as I know both my adrenals and thyroid are fine, but upstream is not. Possibly too many head injuries. My ferritin is low, my iron is optimal, my UIBC and TIBC are both under midrange and my transferrin saturation is top of range - no one seems to know why. Negative antibodies, so no need for LDN
I wonder why no one has ever thought of giving TSH for people with central hypo?
if the rT3 is nearer 11 it means your body is converting T4 to T3 well....if Ferritin is low you need to try and sort that out as that will cause you to have high rT3 and might not absorb the T3 well; My antibodies are low but I take LDN as it's good for Autoimmune (I've ME) and my thyroid , hormones, sleep etc....the group I sent you the link for is brilliant and much better informed then me; There's also a few Thyrovanz groups....All the bets
Valeriu and Angel_of_the_North WHY ARE YOU USING MY POST TO DISCUSS YOUR OWN ISSUES??? WRITE YOUR OWN POSTS!!!!! My inbox is full of 60+ messages with hardly any relating to MY POST!!!!! 😡
My TSH was 0.01 on one test, and my T3 and T4 quite high (T4 just under the upper limit) and I still felt hypothyroid. I have been on a lower dose for over 4 months (they wanted to reduce it even more but gave me a reprieve!) and, sure enough hypo symptoms have got gradually worse.
So this next time I'm taking the evidence that I need an increase instead of a decrease. I will take a list of symptoms and Dr Toft's statement that some patients need an increased T4 (even slightly over limit) and T3 just within limit, with suppressed TSH to feel well.
Hopefully that will work!
A brief bullet list of symptoms and how they affect your life can be very useful in helping convince the doctor that you need help too
They look great to me, my endocrinologist treats the symptoms and very rarely references tsh results, my tsh is high at the moment but my free t4 is perfect and I feel fine so he says my treatment is staying the same even though gp wants to up thyroxine, so no need to worry as long as your feeling good x
That’s the problem. No or very little improvement, but I have spinal problems etc.
Are you on any thyroid medication? If your body doesn't need it they can make you feel really bad, ie. Palpitations, puffy face and sleeping a lot
Yes Levo 75 mcg since new year. Before that 50mcg and for previous 10-12 years either nothing or 25 mcg. No sleep, no puffy face, yes palpitations, but that’s with or without medication.
I understand how confusing all this thyroid stuff can be. Because finding the right answers requires blood work, and study of results.
To my knowledge, Hashimoto's is generally associated with hypothyroidism which is the opposite of what you have.
I'm pretty sure you have some sort of hyperthyroidism
which is defined as Grave's Disease.
But again, I am not here to advise you
only to let you know you are on the hyper-side
not hypo-side
Impossible. She is taking 75 mcg of T4 every day. If she had Grave's Disease, her Free T4 would be WAY over the top of the range. Many (if not most) of us with hypOthyroidism are losing hair. So she's thin. It is possible to be hypothyroid and not be fat.
From the Mayo Clinic:
Common signs and symptoms of Graves' disease include:
Anxiety and irritability.
A fine tremor of your hands or fingers.
Heat sensitivity and an increase in perspiration or warm, moist skin.
Weight loss, despite normal eating habits.
Enlargement of your thyroid gland (goiter)
Change in menstrual cycles.
I'm just stating the medical facts, I never said she was too thin or had Grave's Disease,
The medical facts are hypothyroidism has a high tsh
Never a low tsh
Unless it is central hypothyrodism which
is more rare and has nothing to do with the thyroid
Low TSH can indicate hyperthyroidism for people who are not on any thyroid medication. It can also indicate a flare of Hashimodo's hypothyroidism. That's one reason why, before going on any medication, it is important to have thyroid antibodies tested. Doctors who don't fully understand thyroid functioning have been known to give a patient thyroid suppressing medication when what the patient actually had was hypothyroidism. This makes the patient very, very ill. medlineplus.gov/lab-tests/t...
I'm hypo and my TSH has been only 0.01 (0.300 - 4.200 uIU/mL) for the past three months. The medical fact is that when you take thyroid medications such as T4 or T3, your TSH will go down. When I was taking only Synthroid (T4) my TSH ranged from 1.13 uIU/mL to 3.46. Once I began adding T3 to the mix, my TSH began dropping as my Free T3 level came up.
I did have high TSH top of range, still had to fight to get even low dose 25 mcg.
I had low tsh AND low free t4, my pituitary wasnt functioning properly probably because of early menopause which wasn't caught until last year, a lot of hypothyroid symptoms are the exact same as menopause, but as soon as I went onto hrt my tsh and t4 normalised
I’m very confused now, could anyone come along and summarise simply for me as I now do not know what to do.
Hello!!!! Can you answer ME please, I am very confused!!!
I’ve had 50 responses to my post and I am much more confused than I ever was before. My post seems to have been hijacked by others asking and answering questions. I just need some simple guidelines please.
SlowDragon - As an Administrator who has been around for quite a while, would you jump in now and summarize for mcdermott, please.
Thank you.
Sorry your post got inundated with so many unhelpful and confusing replies.
Your endo is happy for you to stay on 75mcg
Levothyroxine
So at the moment do that
Suggest you consider doing DIO2 gene test. In part, because if you test positive, this would give you the confidence to push for trial of T3.
Many thanks SlowDragon.
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