High elevated cortisol with Dutch plus through out day but low at night causing MAJOR insomnia ! Ahh advice please?

[Yennn]

Low cortisol upon wake, then highly elevated throughout the day. Then rock bottom low at bed time. Causing major sleep problems

[SeasideSusie Remembering]

Yennn

I'm afraid your image is too small to read any figures, even on my main PC's large monitor. You could zoom in on the actual shaded part of the page that shows the results and cut out the blank part and whatever the text is underneath unless that gives relevant information.

Optimal levels are, according to web.archive.org/web/2018083...

• Morning at the top of the range

• Noon approximately 75% of the range

• Evening close to 50% of the range

• Nighttime at the bottom of the range

So if your level is at the bottom of the range at bedtime, that is where it is supposed to be and I don't think that will be causing sleep problems.

[Yennn in reply to SeasideSusie]

Hey Susie, how are you? How u gtn on with your cortisol levels?

From what I read in forums and been googling Both high and low nighttime cortisol levels can interrupt sound sleep. Stress normally causes a surge in adrenal hormones like adrenaline and cortisol that increase alertness, making it more difficult to relax into sound sleep – especially when they remain high or rise and fall irregularly through the night.

I’m waking night upon night with my body wakening me up, buzzing and alert, I stay awake for hours around 2am, lay awake for two hours then this continues multiple times and lay tired but wired and finally fall asleep at 7am.

I’m losing the will.

After you see this the above picture I can load my sleeping pattern?

Hope you can advise me I’m back in bed already, migraine sweating and jumping at the slightest noise.

After my 4 point cortisol low I was low morning and afternoon so I dosed with 10mg HC

5mg at 9am 2.5 at 2.30 and then 9.30 2.5

I was sleeping with less wakes.

But I have put on two stone on my belly and have a round puffy face.

So I done a Dutch plus test which shows

Low 8.45 upon wakening and within an hour at 9.45 it too high and stays too high until 4.30pm.

At 11.50pm it’s rock bottom low.

Now I don’t know what to do,

Stop HC? Take adaptogenic and try lower cortisol.

Ah I really don’t know, but find myself desp searching for answers.

I tried to ask my doc but he rubbished the work of saliva tests.

And I failed two SST baseline within range just a borderline response, which treatment was sick day rule HC 10mg.

Unfortunately I was sick with tonsilitus 5 times and was put on 3 weeks course of anti bios so stayed on HC during my course of anti biotics. On and off for about 5 months roughly.

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Yennn]

If you look at the 2 black lines - the low and high range limits, they show the normal pattern our cortisol should follow.

You are slightly below the low range limit on waking.

Your waking + 30 minutes looks perfect, the rise is as it should be and it is nicely placed in the middle of the range.

Your waking + 60 minutes has gone over the high range limit.

Your afternoon level shows an almost perfect fall to sit at the tip of the high range limit.

The night level falls to the bottom of the low range limit.

All in all your pattern follows a lot of the normal pattern with a high at waking + 60 minutes and a slightly high afternoon level.

I'm not an expert at this, and I can't advise. I can only go by what information I've read and you can see from the link I gave that the nighttime level should be bottom of range.

Is your hydrocortisone prescribed? [Personally, I would not self medicate with hydrocortisone, it is a steroid and not something I would mess with without the guidance of an experienced practioner.] Steroids affect your metabolism and how your body stores fat, they can cause weight gain and extra fat in your abdomen, also "moon" face which causes the face to become round and puffy. It sounds as though this has happened to you. My late mother took steroids for polymyalgia rheumatica for 2 years and this is exactly what happened to her. They also suppress the immune system and could be why you've had tonsilitis 5 times.

As to whether you should take adaptogens, I don't know how to treat mixed results like this. If all your results were high, then adaptogens would probably lower them. If all your results were low then adrenal glandulars or cortex may probably increase them.

I don't understand adrenals enough to be able to make a suggestion for your mix of levels.

[Yennn in reply to SeasideSusie]

Thanks for taking the time to reply back to me, it hard when it comes to adrenals and cortisol to get the right balance, any advice is helpful.

The functional doctor at the time told me from 9.30am till 4.30pm My cortisol is highly elevated above the high black marker.

His advise was to take phos serine to take it down. I was in crash state trialing it.

My HC is prx by my doc as on sick day rule, unfort with so many bouts of reoccurring tonsilitus I was on this for 5 months. I wouldn’t self medicate. Wouldn’t know where to start. Lol

I have always had trouble with my tonsils since a teen.

Waiting to see ENT.

Wonder what the 24 hour cortisol curve would be when sleepin. Be interesting to see what the Pattern is like at night.

How you getting on with your own cortisol I rmbr u doing a saliva test

Last year? X

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Yennn]

I wouldn't have said those levels are highly elevated. Yes you have one sample over the high range limit, but I would call highly elevated around 8 for that result and yours is just over 6. Your afternoon sample is right on the black line so just on the high range limit.

Phos serine probably lowered your cortisol too much. Did it contain soy, those brands I've just checked all do.

I am still trying to raise my cortisol, after taking adaptogens for high in range cortisol for too long without retesting which lowered my levels too much. The Adrenavive I was taking raised my DHEA well, but the cortisol was taking a lot longer to improve, there wasn't much movement at all. I probably hadn't taken it for long enough and may not have been taking enough. Then Adrenavive became unavailable and I went onto a different brand glandular, not just cortex alone like the Adrenavive. I've just sent for a new test kit which I will probably do next Sunday so it will be interesting to see what's happened to my levels whilst taking the glandular. If I had to guess, I'd say I haven't improved or maybe even taken a step backwards, but will have to wait and then decide where to go from there.

[Yennn in reply to SeasideSusie]

Aww i have a link where u can get adrenavive dr myhill suggest to take adrenavive 2 instead of one depending on levels. Dr Ron’s organ delight is meant to be good and also throne cortex.

I think it’s more from the time from 9.45am to 4.30 pm

Where the blue patient line is above the high range that is highly elevated.

Cortisol is high during the times of 9.45?am till 4.30 pm

But low range at 8.45 and perfect range at 9.15. I will just check my bottle if it has soy In it.

I just order a saliva test yesterday from medichecks. Will u come off all supps for two weeks prior to testing?

What are you symtoms ? Did doc do an morning blood cortisol for you or and SST test to check blood levels.

We will get there. So much to read and learn, can be very over whelming

X

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Yennn]

Adrenavive is back in stock now but much more expensive than it was Adrenavive lll (250mg) has increased from £35.95 to £50 for 90 capsules. Thorne is a low dose - only 50mg and works out at more than twice the price of Adrenavive to take the same dose.

[I hope Dr Myhill knows that Adrenavive l is whole adrenal glandular and Adrenavive ll / lll are adrenal cortex, two different types of supplements. Adrenavive lll is double the dose of Adrenavive ll.]

I still don't think the blue patient line is "highly" elevated, yes it's above the high range limit, but it could be an awful lot higher.

Will u come off all supps for two weeks prior to testing?

No. I asked this question of Regenerus who I do my test with (it's a better test, they include DHEA as well as cortisol, DHEA is important to know as well), regarding my adrenal supplement and progesterone cream. Their answer was

Your samples will record your current levels of Cortisol and DHEA as they stand with any supplementation you are taking.

So as I want to know if what I am taking is working, raising my cortisol, not raising it, etc, I need to be taking my supplement. They tell you just not to take it on the day of collection.

Did doc do an morning blood cortisol for you or and SST test to check blood levels.

My GP is not involved at all, is not interested. I have had to find out about my own nutrient levels, adrenals, etc, and help myself. I just get my Levo prescribed, that's all.

What are you symtoms ?

I can't isolate symptoms and say what's adrenal and what's anything else. I have other chronic conditions that cause fatigue and other problems, which is why I'm keeping an eye on my levels, that tells me what's going on better than trying to sort out what symptom is caused by what condition.

[Yennn in reply to SeasideSusie]

Aww Susie I’m sorry u are going through so much, seems we are on same boat. I’m on progrestrone cream too, I tried the Susten oral caps but they gave me a headache, on natpro cream 200mg of prog.

If u had these readings and levels what would u do, lower the slightly elevated cortisol or take glandular

To support adrenals?

I’m sorry your doctors aren’t any of help. I used regenusus lab the first time and had high dhea after working with 3 functional doctor no one could tell me the reason or make sense of my results, so I went wihh medichecks

As they offer a doctors interpretation

Sadly with no dhea tho.

Their advise to me was to stop taking any steroid 2 weeks prior

And High dose biotin supplements can affect this test. If you are taking more than the recommended daily amount then you should not take your supplements for 2 days prior to this test. Use of the oestrogen containing medications such as hormone replacement therapy or the combined oral contraceptive pill can cause elevated cortisol readings. This test can be affected by corticosteroid medications such as prednisolone. If you are taking a corticosteroid stop 2 weeks prior.

Be interesting to see what the results are.

I just want undisturbed sleep!

Since coming off HC i can’t sleep at allz

Whilst on it slept like a baby.

I can’t make sense of al this adrenal and cortisol fluctuations

How is your sleeping pattern?

Hopefully we both will work our way out of this and gain full health one sweet day 🙏🏽

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Yennn]

I don't know what I would do with mixed levels likes yours. I'm just thankful mine is more straightforward!

As for sleep, that's been a long term problem too. Always taken a long time to get off. I can take at least 2 hours after going to bed. My late Dad used to say "sleep on the edge of the bed, you'll soon drop off" He'd be 99 now if he was still with us, he was a lovely Dad.

I'm OK once I'm asleep until I need the loo, 2 or 3 times during the night Oh, the joys of getting older, but better than the alternative

After my next adrenal test, I'm going to try melatonin again.

[Yennn in reply to SeasideSusie]

Aww bless your sweet daddy 💓

I know my results are a bit of a mess I took melatonin for a bit until I done a melatonin test they were off the charts 446 the Highest range was 86.. eck was told no more melatonin or

5htp.

What you goin to do about ur glandulars now that the price has went so high up?

I will message you again and check how u got with restesting.

I guess for me I will trial and error.

Weirdly I find dosing 2.5mg hc at night gives me the Soundest of sleeps.

🤷‍♀️

[SeasideSusie Remembering in reply to Yennn]

"What you goin to do about ur glandulars now that the price has went so high up?"

When the test result is back, if I find the cortex helps more than than the whole glandular, I will go back to Adrenavive lll and hope that one a day is enough which is 55p. I could stretch to two a day but might have to rethink other supplements. Or I might look for another cortex only supplement and compare price.

[Jefffff in reply to Yennn]

What is HC ... Im in a similar boat cortisol levels are 4 and higher in the middle of the day and your story on sleep sounds familiar. Im using 5 HTP and its with mixed results

[Yennn in reply to Jefffff]

Hey Jeff HC is hydrocortisone a steroid prx by docs office adrenals have failed or not producing enough cortisol. Sorry to hear you are going through this too

[Jefffff in reply to Yennn]

Hi Yenn

I noticed on your cortisol level in the afternoon was 4 . That is high.according to my results . It should peak in the morning and come down throughout the day . And my dhea levels are low . What are yours? Have you found an answer to your issues?

[Yennn in reply to SeasideSusie]

The phos serine I take is Swanson soy free it says on the bottle 100mg a cap.

See the blue line patient value from 9.45 till 4.30 Pm it’s above the black high range. Isn’t that highly elevated cortisol? I don’t work with the functional doc that ran these tests to go through it.

His finding were :

REPORT OF FINDINGS

• Low waking cortisol/all day elevation/Catabolism •

Low cortisol clearance/NK Suppression

• Low test/Hormone imbalance/Stage 1

• DHEA high end of range/Inflammation

• Oestrogen clearance issues/Detox issues

• Very low SiGA/Weak immune system/toxins • Catabolic physiology/GI & amino breakdown

• Reduce Inflammation

• Control cortisol throughout day

• Stabilise blood sugar

• Support digestion & redesign diet

• Supply missing nutrients

• Support mitochondria & metabolic energy • Balance hormones

• Low pancreatic function/Impaired digestive function/nutrient malabsorption/deficiency

• Metabolic & Mitochondrial inefficiency/Energy • Phase 1 & 2 detox pathways impaired/detox • Imbalances Neurochemistry/HPA/ANS issues

• Low T4/T3, low TSH, Thyroid D/R

• Blood sugar imbalances, Candida

I had about 75 diff supps to take and just couldn’t tolerate the program.

[HLAB35]

There is another consideration that has only recently come to my attention (through this forum) and that is the possibility of pyroluria. The problem is that pyroluria is a bit 'out there' as far as the conventional medical community is concerned and some are very keen to debunk it, but, it has a lot of potential in making a connection involved with families that have a mix of conditions ranging from physical ones like cancers that were not triggered by lifestyle, to mental health ones like bipolar disorder and cognitive function like autism... back to insomnia.

Insomnia is a common thread with a lot of these conditions and for those with pyroluria the reason behind it is the over excretion of Zinc and B6 as p5p. Whether I have this problem or not, I recently experimented with different doses of these for my adrenals / improving conversion and have found my 'sweet spot' which I'm sticking to as my sleep is far less disrupted (It wasn't just the Magnesium that was helping; these definitely do as well).

This article explains the connection between low zinc / b6 with insomnia due to poor conversion of glutamate to GABA. Also, taurine is very good, but the effects tend to wear off after a bit.

conqueringpyroluria.com/blo...