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Thyroid UK
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One Month Prescriptions Coming!

Went for my asthma review today and met the clinical pharmacist employed by my surgery. I asked if I could be given two inhalers as one only lasted a a month.

As it happened she changed my inhaler to another type (I wonder if it's cheaper!) but she did say that all prescriptions would be changed in the near future to 1 month only in an effort to cut down waste. This will be a real pain for me remembering to request them in time and then going into town every month :(

I did argue that I took all my medication and didn't waste any. She then told me of a couple of cases where she had been to houses where she had found whole cupboards full of unused medication. It seems there are a lot of people who don't take their drugs but collect them anyway so that the doctor doesn't find out. I was horrified.

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You might be able to arrange for an electronic prescription to be sent to the pharmacy of your choice each month so you don't have to keep requesting it. You can probably also order repeats online if you sign up to patient access through your surgery. You might be able to use an internet pharmacy and get the medications delivered to your home.

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Two issues here!

They seem to have withdrawn the online patient access. It was taken down in June - for a month. Then when I made enquiries I was told November. Still no progress. Typical IT project!

I prefer to collect my prescriptions so that I can be sure of getting Actavis/Northstar as I have issues with Mercury - probably due to acacia - and decline to try Teva for the same reasons. Pharmacies seem to be changing hands around here on a regular basis so I'm taking no chances!

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Online patient access is a national portal so it can't be taken down. The only thing your surgery have to supply is a login ID. I would ask again about it. You can nominate the pharmacy of your choice for your prescriptions so it would make it easier for you. We are already on one month prescripton supplies here and no deviation. If you can find an independent pharmacy then hopefully they won't be tied into a contract and will be free to supply what you want.

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I request my repeat prescriptions online (the last being this past week) however I do collect it from the surgery, I won't have it sent electronically to a nominated pharmacy. I think one month prescriptions will just create work for already stretched GPs.

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This is utter nonsense. Might be true that there is a push for this. But the logic doesn't hold water.

This automatically means 12/13 prescriptions a year instead of about 6 or 4 (for two month or three month prescriptions). With attendant extra costs.

Where the cost is a low as it is for levothyroxine, I simply do not believe it possible that shorter prescription times can save anything except in fairly rare and specific circumstances.

How does restriction to one month prevent people collecting and not using?

The MHRA report on levothyroxine expressly recommended three month prescriptions for levothyroxine. I used that to argue (and get) my prescriptions extended from two months to three at my last surgery.

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I have had my prescriptions for levothyroxine changed from two months at a time to one month. I don't suppose you have a link for the MHRA report you could let me have do you. I thought it might be a problem with supplies, as it makes no sense to restrict long term medications ( especially when they are free ) to monthly renewal and all the attendant administration costs.

:)

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Recommendation 9 on page 20 (PDF page 21).

Levothyroxine should be prescribed and dispensed in quantities covering three months supply, where appropriate, in order to address issues of continuity of supply and also to improve convenience to patients.

gov.uk/government/publicati...

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Many thanks, that is really helpful. :)

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it wont necessarily make any difference if the surgery has decided on 1 month. I gave them the MHRA recommendations but it didnt change their policy

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Oh thats helpful. I find the changes a real nuisance. I have Type1 diabetes too and am dependent on insulin and blood glucose monitoring to treat it. There is no way this is going away its a lifelong condition like hypothyroidism. Will ask again if I can have my prescription increased to more than one month's supply.

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Oh I did not know that! The changes have been in force here for some time. Whereas my prescriptions would automatically repeat in blocks of 6 months, now I have to request every 28 days. This does lead to breaks in my medication (epilepsy and thyroid) as invariably any number of things go wrong. I won't request in time/surgery is slow to process/pharmacy has to wait fof a delivery etc etc.

I'm gonna take this in and see if I can get them to do 3 monthly Rx going forward! Thank you!

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I receive a month at a time, and find I often have a panic on if I am away from home and need to reorder especially over bank holidays, The surgery can be slow at times, so I have to think about ordering a week ahead. The pharmacy used to automatically order it for me but the surgery has stopped that facility.

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It’s a nightmare isn’t it. I’m lucky my pharmacy does it for me. They normally tell me when to collect it, then they send me a text when it is ready. Interesting enough this months text said ‘if you no longer want this prescription phone xxxxx. Ive never seen that before and thought it was a bit odd.

At some point last year it was decided that the patient had to sign for what they had ticked which seemed a bit strange really. I couldn’t make up my mind who the GPs didn’t trust - patient or pharmacist?

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I wish my GP(s) and pharmacist knew that!

I once asked if I could get 3 months instead of 2 as we were going overseas, and the kind GP solved the problem by giving me a second prescription!

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I agree it's ridiculous. As you say it won't stop the non collection scenarios and it will cost more money

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Plus it is an essential medication required for our existence - why make it a great big hassle to get hold of it given how inefficient many doctors surgeries are with queues to speak a receptionist and a hundred and one ears wagging, phones ringing and ringing,and weeks to even see a doctor. Then this latest stuff about regional paucity of GPs. Perhaps they are hoping waste can be reduced by killing us off - no need for medication then! Is it a bunch of wet behind the ears myopic accountants who are fast at typing - and have no long term vision whatsoever. It just goes from bad to worse.

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It also increases the risk patients will run out and spend days+ with no medications!

I used to have a terrible pharmacy that took up to a month to fill a prescription. At a time when I was very very ill it was a nightmare.

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That is outrageous, what is it all coming to?

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I totally agree, people will just order everything whether needed or not because they are scared the doctor will stop the medication.

On the other hand all these measures just inconvenience those of us who use up all of our medication (because we have to!) and who don't abuse the system!!

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And are more costly to administer - did economies of scale become old hat all of a sudden? As for claiming it will stop drug hoarding it is as illogical and as absurd as the 1month prescription only for vital life long medication

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I’ve only ever been prescribed 1 month of levothyroxine at a time. I’ve been on it for over 1 year.

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My thyroxine is on six months prescription it is sent to my pharmacy and I collect it monthly when I reach last one pharmacist tell me I then put review sheet into surgery and get a review call from a doctor .

Since my own doctor has retired I never know the doctor who rings usually they ask for blood test and then argue I need to drop dosage as my TSH is surpressed I have no thyroid and am only on 100 so always argue against a drop . The last time I noticed the prescription to pharmacy was for one year !! Could be a mistake but I think I ll leave well alone !!

Piedo

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my surgery only does 1 month precriptions.When I moved here from cambridge I was used to 3 month precriptions. I gave this surgery a copy of the MHRA recommendations but they just replied that it is this surgery's practice to only supply one month at a time

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Is it legal for her to go to people's houses and poke around in their cupboards? What does she need to go to people's houses for?

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Lol! Yes - is she a burglar? Or is it a hobby? She won’t be rooting around my cupboards! Maybe the biggest issue is GPs who keep repeating medications for people for years and years without checking on their health or reviewing need. Like statins for example. Or who prescribe pills like smarties. 🤸🏿‍♀️

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Exactly! It's the doctors' fault, not the patients! They should be more careful what they prescribe - like they are with T3! Bet she didn't find T3 in anyone's cupboard!

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I can’t stop laughing - yes - that is so funny - unless it was someone stockpiling Thybon from Germany for fear of Brexit! 🤸🏿‍♀️

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Ah, could very well be! :D

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I was about to say, she'd find a goodly supply of T3 in my cupboard if she looked. But it didn't come from the NHS.

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Snap - plus huge bottles of NDT enough for well over 1 year, not a measily month!

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And in mine...

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Due to the Orange Toddler's government shutdown here across the pond T3 is back-ordered. Finally found a pharmacy where it was in-stock and got my Endo to change Rx to 3 month's supply. So am starting my stockpile.

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I didn't ask that!

She is employed by the practice now but relatively new so I guess that was in a former job.

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Very strange.

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Do you think she needs reporting to the police? Or a psychiatrist? Maybe she is obsessed with snooping on people’s private pharmaceuticals whenever she gets invited round anywhere. I bet she makes the excuse of saying she wants to go to the loo to rifle through bathroom cabinets. 🤸🏿‍♀️

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I regularly ask the pharmacist to go to patients homes to do a medication review, (I am a district nurse). Many GP surgeries now employ a pharmacist to complete medication reviews and requests as it free’s up a lot of time for the dr’s. I too have seen patients with carrier bags full of unopened and unused medication, which is when the pharmacist would go in to review the situation.

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And she looks through their cupboards? Really? 🤸🏿‍♀️

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This makes sense but surely the real issue is why are these people not taking their prescribed meds? They were prescribed for a reason

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But, was it the right reason? We hypos are prescribed lots of things we don't need, because doctors don't listen, don't understand and don't care. People-cash in the prescription because they don't want the doctor to know they're not taking them. Comes back to being the doctor's fault, again.

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But you can take a prescription and throw it in the bin, not getting in filled. How is a doctor ever going to know you didn't get it filled. I crossed off the dreaded statins (added to the script without my asking) so I told the pharmacist it was a mistake as I didn't need them. Nobody ever said anything about it.

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Yes, but not everybody realises that.

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Nice one 😂🤣😂

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New info re Big Brother watching us-at least in the States.

Until a few weeks ago I thought no one knew if we filled a prescription or not. But here's my recent experience. I had a consult with my regular orthopedic doctor re my knees. He is in one of the Professional Buildings at the hospital I always use.

He wanted me to be seen by a knee specialist at Emory University (the appt is coming up.) As directed I stopped by his office to pick up my x-rays and referral papers and because the papers concerned me I opened the envelope and read them.

Nothing was out of line but on the paper listing my medications I noticed a column indicating filled or not filled. Never was aware they had that information before.

When I try a new prescribed med and for some reason choose not to continue it I send an online message to the appropriate physician.No problem, I just didn't realize they had a program available to communicate with the pharmacy whether the prescription was filled or not.

I guess every day our privacy is being compromised more and more. I just wish we knew all the ways we can be 'checked up on."

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But surely if you told the relevant physician that there was a problem with the medication and that you are stopping it, isn't it good practise for them to record it on your records so that you don't get it prescribed again. That way it will be recorded which meds you have tried. If every physician then has access to these records they all know. The information will have come from you and not the pharmacy.

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You are correct. I probably didn't make myself clear. What I meant to say is this was not a chart entry stating I was or was not taking the medication and why (side effects, cost, or whatever my reason) and if he decided to prescribe an alternative.

That would be correct medical documentation.

What was listed is just every med I was on from all my doctors (actually he had not prescribed any of them-they were from other physicians). He just listed whether or not I had recently filled them on time. This does not indicate I am taking them correctly or not.

Also all of the meds were prescribed by other doctors-not him. In my online medical record any doctor can pull up notes written by any other doctor and see everything done regarding my care.

This list was just a column of 'filled or not filled by patient' like a monitoring device. Just a checklist.

If I had chosen to discontinue a med for whatever reason it would be thoroughly documented in the prescribing doc's medical notes.

BTW I didn't like this doctor. He was intrusive, abrupt, and more importantly seemed bored when I was offering my input and I didn't get a good 'gut feeling' about him. The purpose of the visit was to organize replacement knee surgery which had been postponed until I got off anticoagulants.

I had already decided after seeing him earlier in the year that I didn't feel good having him operate on me and was going to tell him this at the visit.

Fortunately before I had to broach the subject he said he wanted to refer me to another specialist. So problem solved.

I had seen him last January to be evaluated for knee surgery. I was scheduled to have a Watchman Procedure (left atrial appendage occlusion) so I could stop taking anticoagulants for a-fib. Knee surgery was postponed until the surgery and tapering off was complete. This month was my year anniversary of the surgery so time to look at the knees.

I didn't feel that good about him last January but didn't have to make the decision then.

I worked in an operating room for many years and have a good instinct about surgeons. In the past when I listen to my instincts my surgery has always gone smoothly with excellent final results.

Take care, irina

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I would imagine the relatives find the hoard when they are clearing out after a death and take them to the surgery.

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After my dad died I took his unused medications to the pharmacy. Pharmacy assistant was outraged at the cost of the unused medications. Of course, if he’d received better care from his GP (who fobbed him off instead of investigating his pain, and prescribed painkillers on repeat) and lived longer, he might have used his medications. I regret that his medications were wasted but for a different reason to the pharmacy assistant :(

It’s so easy to judge ....

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As if it is your fault and to be like that after you lost your dad, being public spirited and doing the right thing in returning them to the pharmacy for safe disposal. I am with you on whom I hold responsible. What world was that pharmacy assistant inhabiting, behaving like that?

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Not sure she hoarded them but the only reason we know my aunt had hypothyrodism was because of her Levothyroxine in the medicine cabinet after she died. She told no one, not even her own daughter.

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Now that sounds just like my mother. Not with levo but she was very evasive and mysterious about her health. She once told me her doctor thought she had ‘something wrong with her blood’. She hinted at leukaemia- it wasn’t - she was treated with B12 injections so I think it must have been PA, she hinted that she might have leukaemia but I very much doubt it was that - she never revealed what it was and all we found aftershe died was her BP tablets and a load of aspirin. She used to dose herself up every day. Don’t know why she couldn’t just have been up front about it, but that was just her.

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lol

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Guess we need to hide our stashes before these people come snooping.

Times have changed. Used to be we just had to hide our grass. Now we have to protect our T3!

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lol

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My son is tube fed and every now and then we get a call from someone who wants to come and check our stock levels. Either from the company who deliver everything or from the dieticians office- last time it was a student they had on placement (I suspect to give her something to do). I just refuse on the basis that we have been managing just fine by ourselves for 20 years!!

And even if I did agree they are certainly not rummaging round my house - the items would be placed in the living room for them to inspect there.

(And if we were stockpiling- which we don't- I'd just hide it anyway!!)

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Good for you! It's a bit of a cheek, isn't it.

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One if the dietitans is constantly going on about how "parents stockpile". I'm not sure how she thinks we do so because she's extremely parsimonious with supplies anyway!!

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They just don't live in the real world, do they.

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Or they could consider getting a life!

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Projection? She probably has a power complex - stock piling like crazy herself but handing out as little as possible to make her feel more important!

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Off topic-just pointing out how ridiculous some people can get.

Before computers and scanners were in use for us to be sure we charged patients for supplies there was a desk clerk in charge of keeping up with patient supplies. I understand the reasons to collect revenue but this lady was positively OCD.

One night I was really busy-lots of admissions. I went into the supply room to get a comb , toothbrush, and toothpaste for a new admission. I forgot to write this down on her clipboard hanging by the door.

When I got to work the next day I had been written up and reported to the supervisor by the desk clerk. Turns out this was my third offense for not charging for combs.

My supervisor and I had a good laugh. We had been so busy and short staffed the night before we were just happy nobody had died!!!

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Sounds like a load of old codswallop to me! We need to take the darn stuff not hoard it!

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Well, depends what it is. I'll be eternally grateful that I had managed to amass a small horde of T3 before the proverbial hit the fan. And, I'll do it again, if I get the chance.

But, it does depend what we're talking about.

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If we got what we needed eg optimal T4, NDT, T3 or combinations of them to suit when we needed it on the NHS which I have paid NI for over decades, we would not need to source large quantities to ensure our supply was as sustainable as possible by stockpiling. I agree it is a very sensible strategy to adopt in our situation. I recall someone in the bible building granaries to excellent result Moses perhaps? I am proud of my hoard I admire it greatly and take some every day! It is my lifesaver.

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Absolutely.

Yes, I think it was Moses, built them for the Egyptians, if I remember correctly. :)

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I am not sure what my codswallop reply referred to - probably the idea that rather than take T4 (required for life) it is put into a cupboard to gather dust out of sheer stockpiling dévilment. It does not make sense as a strategy and to what end? To be undermedicated all the time?

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Well, hording is a medical condition in itself, I believe. You hear about people who can't throw anything away. I was once invited to this huge great house in Paris - what they call an 'hotel privé' - which looks so grand from the outside. Inside, it was piled from floor to ceiling with newspapers, in every room and corridor on every floor (and liberally sprinkled with cat sh*t because the man horded cats, too!) He just could not throw anything away. Talk about fire hazard! :(

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Yeah it can get really out of hand. Sounds very unpleasant and a serious health hazard too!

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It was extremely unpleasant. I couldn't eat a thing!

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A very sensible precaution! What a nasty shock it must have been. I can smell it - a vivid imagination is not always a good thing 😱🤢🤮

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Neither is a highly developed sense of smell! lol

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Yes I have that too - it is not as bad as when I was overt and untreated I smelt horrible things everywhere I think they were there but just hugely magnified but why only bad smells I don’t know. I have a relative who can sniff a coat and know which friend it belongs to if they forgot it at the house 😳! It is their preferred method of identification, forget any visual clues. Must have been a beagle in another life 😂🤣😂 there must be a threshold of smelling where horrible becomes illuminating given some of the horrid things my pooches find good to sniff! I have yet to reach that.

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Mine was at it's peak during my first pregnancy. It's probably something to do with self-preservation. But, the worst thing was getting on the bus in the morning, when everybody smelt of soap! Something I wouldn't normally notice. I know it would have been worse if these people hadn't washed, but all that soapy perfume first thing in the morning, really turned my stomach!

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And perfume, aftershave, washing powders - a nasal assault of epic proportions 🤢 drains were the other really serious provoker in my case. My mother said when she was a girl people really stunk - outer clothes were never washed just beaten to get out dust baths were once a week in the cleanly! But she said you just got used to it and hardly noticed. Perhaps the synthetic chemicals we festoon ourselves with are more offensive than man made ones our own bodies create. Interesting that the synthetic ones are wreaking havoc with endocrine systems the world over. Mind you natural hormones are a problem too. Wrong chemical wrong place perhaps?

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Well, I'm not sure about that! I'm not a great fan of natural body odour - mine or anyone else's! But, if people stank when your mother was a girl, imagine what it must have been like in the Middle Ages! Who was it who said that he had a bath once a year, whether he needed it or not? lol

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I have wondered what Henry VIII must have smelt like as an older man. Ulcerated leg gone septic, probably syphilis, morbidly obese, gluttonous, little bathing and although under garments were changed regularly, the top ones were not. I bet he was a delight to be up close and personal with.

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He was supposed to have ponged big time!

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If you had a head left with the nostrils to sniff with! It was a very dangerous business getting close up and personal with Henry the Eighth

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Yes! I love that period of history, but can't quite work out why they spent so much on beautiful clothes and magnificent jewels and palaces but didn't object to stinking when a bath would have made so much difference!

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I know Liz 1 was regarded as a hygiene fanatic having one bath a year. The crusaders became a bit more keen on it because of Arab influence. It was all tin baths by the fire when my parents were kids and coppers for wash day on a Monday and I guess most working people did quite physical and often dirty jobs. I worked in a place with quite a few who thought washing was unenvironmental and simply did not bother! They may have a point but it was not very pleasant being near them! All men who are more odoriferous anyway in my opinion.

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It was tin baths in front of the fire when I was a kid, too! I remember it clearly. And between bath, the tin bath hung on the wall outside the back door. I was only thinking about that, recently. Fun, when you were a kid. But, imagine having to boil all that water to fill it, and then having to empty it afterwards! No wonder we only bathed once a week!

And, those baths were quite small, really. I remember one neighbour who got stuck in hers, and my dad had to go in and help get her out!

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That has made me laugh! How times have changed and where bathing is concerned much for the better although my dad said it was rather lovely bathing in front of a real fire and no chilly bathroom to then suffer hopping out to get dried! There were still some girls at school who had no inside bathroom or loo when I was at secondary school but there was a huge programme to make all dwellings have inside facilities. They pulled down rows and rows of back to back terraces

And built more modern housing in their place still houses but with gardens. It could not have housed as many families tho.

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My parents had an outside loo until they moved in 1980! It didn't seem to bother them, but I remember it as being horrendous when I was a child. Especially in the middle of the night when it was snowing!

Now, I see on Google Street that that house has a Porsche parked outside, in what was once the front garden, and I wonder if they've moved the loo inside - and if so, where! It was a tiny house. Pity we can't have Google Snooper, that goes inside the houses. And, if it poked in the cupboards, as well, it would save that pharmacist a job!

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Lol! My great aunt had only an outside lavy I was really scared using it in the day time let alone in the night in snow small wonder they had chamber pots! My grandpa went mad when I asked him as a small child why he had a potty under his bed, I guess you see things under a bed easily when you are small! He claimed it was not a potty - what a fibber it was just one for an adult! He didn’t fool me. And the loo was right next door to his bedroom too.

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lol

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And what about spiders and bugs in an outside loo? In Florida there were all kinds of bugs and every August was mating season for scorpions. We couldn't walk barefoot outside at night because the scorpions were on the sidewalk doing their thing.

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You can always look in zoopla or rightmove, if the house has been up for sale in recent years, it will be in property history, and there may be the estate agent pics 😉

And of course, you'll also find how much it is worth it nowadays!

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Oh, really? I never thought of that. Lord knows when it was last on-sale, though, because my parents left it in 1980. I doubt it it's still the same person that bought it then, but you never know. I'll see if I can find anything. Thank you. :)

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Just search the postcode in house prices and it will show land registry data of previous sales, and if available, the listings from when it was on the market. Weird entertainment, but it is fun to see what has happened to places you used to live... I'll go back to my dungeon now... Lol!

Keep us posted with what you find👍

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Yes, it is fun. And, I love house-hunting in general. lol On that site, I was able to look round a lot of my old neighbours' houses on that site, same layout as our old house - the improvements that have been made are mind-boggling! A long was from the old tin bath! :)

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Not weird. When I drive by pretty homes I always wish I could see the inside.

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Oh I always see through the windows when walking past pretty cottages that face the road! :-D

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I found it, but it was last sold in 2002, so too old to have photos. Still, the price took my breath away! lol

Thank you.

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House prices are unreal! They keep going up at a ridiculous rate. But yeah, browsing those sites to see how neighbours did their houses was good for inspiration when we got our doer-upper!

As for old tin baths, you'd also be amazed at how much they go for in antique shops!

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No, I wouldn't be surprised, I don't think. I know how crazy it can get. But, the difference in house prices between about 2000 and now is just rediculous!

Anyway, spent a couple of pleasant hours looking at all the houses I've lived in in the past. :)

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Yuck! My Nan never had a bathroom. She died in 1985 so not the dark ages. She still had her tin bath, hung up on a nail in the coal shed. It was a palaver and never enough water to enjoy. But she strip washed every day. She was meticulous and so beautifully clean and tidy.

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I was wrong she bathed not once a year but a more savoury once a month! That quote is about her:

The quote that Elizabeth I "bathes once a month, whether she needs it or not" is supposedly from the Venetian ambassador in a letter to his government.

No one has found the document to prove it though.

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Wow! She was a hygiene fanatic! Frankly, it's a wonder the human race hasn't died out. Surely the pong must have been off-putting. How could you fancy anyone who smelt like a dustbin that hadn't been emptied for a year or more?

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They say the smells are actually a turn on - recent research on the matter seems to bear this out 😱 I suppose we must have an odour for a purpose and daily bathing is probably not natural human behaviour! Although saying that...we are quite good swimmers some say we had a semi aquatic phase of development hence the lack of body hair, upright stance, frontal sex, tear ducts and a lot of other unusual adaptations. This is a good intro to the theory:

google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theg...

If you have not read the Descent of Woman it is a jolly good read! She cuts through the 💩! I read it at the time and found it quite brilliant. I have not read Morgan’s more measured later works on the matter. I have little doubt that the theory is very likely to be correct. If Sir David is not dismissing it and even promoting its discussion - that has to be a good sign.

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Ah, the famous pheromones! But, being hypo, it takes more than a sweaty armpit to turn me on!

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Nothing turns me on anymore I am an asexual being ☹️ Ok David Olusoga does a very tiny bit!

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I had to google David Olusoga, but yes, he's nice isn't he. He could probably do something for me, too. Although I doubt I could do much for him! lol

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Snap! 🙄

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lol

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Gosh greygoose there is a lot more to human scent that I realised, have a read of this enlightening article on the matter

google.co.uk/amp/s/www.psyc...

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Wow! That's fascinating! Thanks for the link. :)

I wonder if hypos have a distinctive smell… Broda Barnes had a theory that hypos tended to be attracted to each other, even if they didn't know the other was hypo. Could that be due to smell, I wonder?

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Perhaps - but you’d think we’d repel one another! They say bipolar seems to have a thyroid malfunction aspect. T3 has been used very successfully to treat it but no one knows why it works it was superior to conventional bipolar medications in the STAR*D trials. My partner has ultra rapid cycling bipolar he is trying T3 and is finding it very helpful so far. Not that any doctor or psychiatrist has ever suggested he take it - I know a retired consultant of psychiatry who knows of it as a treatment for depression but does not seem to have ever used it.

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Could it not just be that the bi-polar and depression are caused by hypo/low T3, and that's why taking T3 helps?

Dr Barnes theory was that hypos are attracted to each other because they live at the same tempo (or something like that). Being that hypos are slower, etc. having a euthyroid partner might put too much strain on them. It certainly worked that way with my parents. I'm 99.9% sure that they were both hypo, although neither of them were ever diagnosed. And, they rubbed along well together. Not proof of anything, I know, but when I read that in Dr Barnes book, I thought 'uh-huh'.

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I think that the thyroid panels are not normal but most are not as abnormal as hypothyroid (I am sure there are some diagnosed with bipolar who are simply suffering from classic thyroid disorder). Even when given 50mcg T3 daily the majoritys’ levels do not go into overactivity, which is also not understood. One idea is that there are unknown substances made by the thyroid that are playing a role. May be you are right and they are over complicating things or perhaps there is still a lot more to be discovered about the thyroid and the consequences of it not functioning properly. My partner refuses to ask

Doc for a thyroid blood panel or vit and mineral tests. Stubborn does not come into it. 🙄 he mostly lives life in the fast lane whereas I am more to the plodding pace.

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There probably is a lot more to the thyroid than we understand, but most doctors are just in denial about thyroid in general. They don't want to believe all the negative effects hypothyroidism can have.

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It is a ridiculous position to take - we are the best judges of that not them! There is ample information now to back it up too.

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Yes, try telling a doctor that! lol

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A good one would not need telling they’d know that was the truth of the matter! The one who diagnosed me was brilliant, very quick to get back to me when things were serious to ensure I started the medication ASAP. He always consulted me and really listened I always felt he was learning as much as he could from every encounter with me. He was quite young and I don’t think he’d had such a seriously overt patient ever before with my unusual family history of thyroid disorder and non Hoskins lymphoma. I later told him he had saved my life and thanked him but he was so humble and said he was just doing his job! I moved away so had to leave his care. I wish they were all like that. He may have been young but he was very wise.

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I wish they were all like that, too! But, very, very few of them are.

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Seems body odour is our salvation have a look at the psychology today article I have linked to in previous comment

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Well, I guess you would have smelt the same so didn't notice?

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Could be, I don't know. Never been in that position! lol

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No wonder shenever got married.

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There is an interesting weekly show here(US) called Hoarders. It is a reality show.

This is a huge (psychological)problem over here. We have been such a materialistic society in America for years. Very consumer-oriented. In fact statistics (can't remember the numbers) are mind-boggling about how much money Americans spend on storage unit rentals because houses and garages are filled to the brim with 'stuff'.

Until I watched a few shows I never knew how many psychological/emotional layers are attached to hoarding. And education and intelligence levels make no difference. There are hoarders from all walks of life and educational levels.

Years ago I had a friend that wanted to sell her house but was older, had a full-time high powered job and several medical problems. I offered to help her clean out her (lg) house. I knew she had a lot of stuff-crowded rooms, no room in the large garage for cars, etc.

I thought it would go pretty quickly as I was young and healthy and she had some minor mobility problems. All it would take is some physical work and elbow grease.

I was wrong. On day one I started with a stack of magazines piled high in the hall. I noticed some were over 10 years old. I began asking her if I could discard this and that and for almost every magazine she said"No. Don't throw that out yet. I want to look through the articles."

They were dusty and it wasn't long before I realized there was more to this than I could deal with.

This program shows how everyone in the family's life is affected by the hoarding even if members don't live in the house. It's very sad.

I've never liked clutter-my home has very few 'collectibles' and I find I get more minimalist each year. It's very sad.

From my observation it seems many hoarders have had human losses from their lives and have not handled them well. So they save anything that keeps these lost relationships close to them.

There is another group-though most have passed on-who grew up during the Great Depression (1929-1930) and their 11th commandment is 'waste not want not.' They can't part with even an old used envelope-never know when they might need paper to make a list.

I also believe people who hoard medicine are often-not always- in denial about their medical condition and so don't believe it really needs treatment.

As usual, just my opinion but a very interesting and pervasive problem.

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After living through the second World War, when it was so difficult to get anything, and make-and-mend was the rule, my mother became a bit of a hoarder - not to that extend, though. You reminded me when you mentioned keeping old envelopes. That's what my mother did, so that she always had plenty of paper on hand to work out crossword clues. So, in her defence, she did use this stuff. But, being brought up like that, I've inherited the hoarding 'gene'. I find it difficult to throw anything away, but will try and find a 'good home' for stuff - thank god for car boot sales! I have a whole room in my house, full of stuff and I have no idea what's in there! lol Might find out, one day.

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I understand. It was my mother who always said "Waste not want not." I follow this too esp re food and items many in this world have to do without.

I also kept'souvenirs' early on-re relationships-especially cards. And it took me a long time to get comfortable with regifting things given to me I didn't like or couldn't use. Now I sort of have the attitude that I'm sending an item out in the Universe-hopefully to a new home where someone will love it more than I did.

I am a little nuts but I have ADD!🐱 😊

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But nuts in a nice way. :)

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😂

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That is a neat idea re unwanted gifts which I find impossible to deal with...not any longer out to the universe they shall go to be better loved elsewhere!! 😉 I don’t like wasting food and cards are another one hoard! We are hoarding twins 👯‍♀️ 😂🤣😂

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Happy to find a twin!🐱

I've been watching youtube videos in the last few months about minimalism and people who have really downsized. I've begun to internalize that the less 'stuff' we have the less anxiety and chaos we have in our lives.

I've gotten rid of so many unnecessary possessions-small and large- recently and it's very refreshing to see space in cabinets, on shelves, and even in the refrigerator. I can actually see what food I have and nothing rots on the back shelves! I thought I was on top of this issue til watching some videos. They offered much food for thought.

Funny true story. Family and friends, I find, fight me on this issue. My routine when I'm cooking is to set the kitchen timer and bring it in my living room so I can hear it and not forget what's in the oven. This works for me.

Not long ago my friend brought me a second timer saying now I have one to leave in the living room and I don't have to carry the kitchen one back and forth.

He meant well and was trying to do something nice but I got agitated. More clutter. He finally understood I didn't need 2 timers and found a new home for the one he brought. It was a tiny item but I just didn't want to give it space on my table. I did ask if he needed an extra timer. He said no!!

It's calming to look around my apt and see 'space'. I even took some family pictures that sat in frames (collecting dust) and had them matted and framed to hang on the wall.I designated a narrow wall for family photos.I also feel when I die-hopefully not right now- my family won't have tons of overwhelming junk to get rid of or feel they have to hang onto it because it was 'moms.'

Take care. irina

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Great attitude!

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Thanks TSH. This subject is not directly tied to my Thyroid or A-fib problems but I have always had such generalized anxiety over seemingly inconsequential things.

Anything I can do to lessen my anxiety helps my medical problems and I don't need to take my Xanax as often when I get rid of anxiety triggers,

At least for me looking at a clean uncluttered house (including drawers, closets,and other areas not readily visible) keeps me from obsessing over my "shoulds" list: "I should clean out my kitchen drawers" then sitting and procrastinating. This creates anxiety every time I look at clutter or untidyness but don't fix it right away.

It can be a vicious cycle.

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Mmm I have a some store cupboards like that I do mad things like buy stuff again because I simply cannot find the one I already have! I have been trying to make inroads but it is painfully slow progress. I never thought that the war or even being from a poor family in the 30’s might be relevant to my mums hoarding and like yours she did use the stuff she just had a lot of it! Not quite the same as not being able to find stuff at all!

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With me, it's not that I can't find what I already have, I just don't remember I've got it! So, I'll be shopping, and see a jar of chilis, or something, and think 'oh, I'll have some of them'. Then get home and find I've already got three jars! lol My memory is terrible!

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Don't you find this is especially easy to do with refrigerated food?

I believe there is a black hole in refrigerators where food disappears until we replace it and then it shows up again. And all of a sudden we have 3 jars of (fill in the blank). lol

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No, not really. It's with everything - potatoes, tomatoes, packets and jars. It can be everything or anything. lol

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LOL 😂

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Do you think it is a short term

Memory fault? I was so bad when I was very overt someone would say something to me and I would answer as if I had never heard what they had said so my answers were bizarre I would then realise what nonsense it was. In the end I just told people I had been ill and it was affecting my memory so if I said anything a bit odd that was why. It seemed to help. I still have some short term memory problems and recalling names of things and people can affect me suddenly. I never had it until my hypothyroidism started galloping away with me so it must be the root of it. Lack of T3 to the brain perhaps? Heart problems/blood.pressure. I generally can’t find things and buy extra stuff in error because I have forgotten I have some that is accessible. Double whammy!

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So true. When my hypo was undertreated for so long looking back I believe my mental symptoms were the worse-brain fog, memory loss (forgetful), irritability, obsessing over perceived slights-all the symptoms that would cause a doctor to prescribe anti - depressants or send us for a psych consult.

I knew it was my thyroid and persevered about finding a good Endo.

After finally being started on T3 (last April) and going through the (slow) process of having the dose slowly raised I now feel much better, am a nicer person to others because I don't get so irritated especially with annoying people or situations.

T3 has resolved more mental symptoms for me than I can remember. I just know that now my coping ability with life in general is very much improved.

Priceless!

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With me it's short-term and long-term. But, it isn't all thyroid. I was ill in 2013 with a very high temperature, and it wiped my memory banks. I've forgotten so much. And I know I've forgotten it because I have my kids and my brother to remind me. :'(

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That’s tough, I get a bit upset if I forget things. I used to have an excellent memory I do accept is is all fuzzy now where it was once pinsharp. I get by ok but I am not organised like I once was. I just try to make the most of things enjoy what I have rather than fret about what has.not been retained. At least I never get depressed anymore - that is a massive improvement! I was such an old misery guts - glad that is over.

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I used to be able to go and see a film, come home and repeat it word for word - with the actions! lol Bored my school friends rigid. I used to learn poems by heart for fun. Now, I've had to give up the theatre because I can't learn a script anymore. Ho hum.

Glad your depression has eased, anyway. :)

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I used to be able to recall books every detail page by page now I have to read stuff again and again it never seems to reach my long term memory - must have short circuited! Sorry about the theatre you need an impromptu group that just makes it up as they go along - could be quite fun! No need for a script 😉 I could never do theatre all those people watching me I’d Be so self conscious I’d want to leg it but iId just be wooden with stage fright! Do impromptu acting groups exist I wonder.

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They do, but to me they would be absolutely terrifying. Being confident inside a script is so much safer.

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What is there to fear if anything goes especially given your script prop is in danger of collapse!? I suppose it is needing terms of reference in any sphere of life to oil things along. Interesting that they do exist so some people like it!

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It's called Improv and it's a thing. But you need to be very quick thinking to pull it off. There is plenty to fear on stage. It's the fear that makes a good performance if it's controlled. But if it gets out of control in a free for all situation then it's horrible.

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I’d be useless - my mind is glacial I have done some truly dreadful job interviews because I simply cannot come up with an answer put in the spot like that even if I have practiced answering possible questions beforehand it all sounds so phoney but if I try a bit of Improv I am even worse because I can’t even blunder out a half baked response! No surprises that I have had zero success at the last half dozen or so! They must think I am not quite with it. Their loss is all I can say! I always get interviews because I can still do a good written application. As if gardening is about answering nonsense about aspirations and hypothetical situations it is knowing, organising and doing. None of which is revealed by any interview I ever had! It favours gob💩es as we say where I come from! 😂🤣😂

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I don't think I'd like that impromptu thing very much. I certainly don't like watching it! lol

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My partner was taken to a play by a pal, where to his horror he realised it was a full on audience participation affair where the audience became the players - he totally freaked out, got up and ran out of the theatre to escape! 🏃🏽‍♂️ 🎭 😂🤣😂

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Frankly, I don't blame him! lol

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Me neither I’d have raced him for the exit had I gone along!!

🏃🏽‍♀️ 🏃🏽‍♂️🎭

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I've been acting for decades and running shows too. I loath audience participation as an audience member. Hideous situation!

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Oh dear greygoose, same here! All my life I've loved reading and never had a TV so reading was a big form of entertainment. And I was involved with theatre from the age of 14 onwards. I too have had to retreat from that love. Mostly because I am so fat and hideous that I wouldn't want people to pay to see me, but also because I doubt my ability to learn and retain a script.

Does this not improve with treatment?

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I can't answer that for anyone else, but I did have that problem five years ago where my brain got fried, so no. For me, nothing has improved it.

I did theatre when I was at my fatest. Theatre is supposed to reflect life, and life is made up of all shapes and sizes. :)

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Perhaps, but wardrobe departments aren't made up of clothes for fat women and wardrobe mistresses can be very cutting about it. I can't accept my body like this so I shut myself away. I don't want to be seen.

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Ah, must be a cultural difference between France and England, then.

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It's normal to make up a fat suit for a slimmer actress if you need a fat actor! There was a time, not too long ago, when I was in that position. Wearing a fat suit to fit the part. If only! It was delightful to be able to remove it at the end of the night. Wish I could remove this lot in the same way.

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:(

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Right on!

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You are too hard on yourself FP54. Think of Hattie Jaques she was fab and everyone adored her - she had a very handsome young lover - broke John Le Meisurers heart! I did get very down about the 4 stone I gained - I used to feel like I was wearing a fat suit but it has gone now. It was not my fault I piled it on - NDT and going gluten free seemed key in my body returning to a state of equilibrium.

I agree it would be awful to forget the script.

I was an avid reader but as I became more poorly with untreated hypothyroidism I would try and read and immediately fall asleep I simply could not concentrate on reading - it was awful. I have improved a lot but don’t read as much as I used to. Not the book worm I once was. I tended to factual technical reads (how odd is that?) much harder going now. You may get a lot of improvement it really varies. My memory was shot for ages but I have found new strategies to remember things. I will suddenly forget names of things, often Latin plant names (all learned after diagnosis when I changed my career I passed all the exams too 😉) and sometimes people’s names (embarrassing!) and the more I stress about it the less likely I am to recall it. I have made a lot of improvements and I hope you find the same. I started NDT about 3 years ago and it has helped me very much. Even my toe nails are improving after I had given up hope of them ever recovering why it has taken so long I don’t know.

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Thank you for the hope. I'm in a low place right now. It's snowing and we have a double load of logs being delivered this afternoon. I already know I'm going to have to find an inner strength from somewhere I can't see right now to be able to help my husband move them into the wood store and stack them. My job is borrowing them down to him. It's going to be very, very hard for me today. This week has been the pits. The worst in a long time because I've gone too long without an increase. I screwed p the timing on my test this week too, so now can't do the finger prick draw until Monday morning. More delay.

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I totally agree my mother was in denial for years over her hypothyroidism she was like a bullfrog her goitre was so huge hidden under polonecks she told me once she was terrified of them cutting her neck open. They never did because it was so massive it was inoperable but luckily it was super sensitive to chemotherapy and they managed to save her life. Later on she had cupboards full of soluable vitamin D3 my dad used to give me some to try and reduce the glut! Why she hoarded then I am not sure but denial seems an obvious candidate. She did hoard other stuff but it was all very orderly and neatly packed away and easy to find and use. I am terrible for keeping stuff it started when a close relative died as if these material things were permanent things I could not loose. I used to be very austere hating cutter of all kinds but now I am in a horrible dilema theoretically minimalist by practically a clutter monster! I think the hypo has exacerbated it greatly too. I still find it very hard to make a decision if there are options. In a shop I might just buy two similar things because I cannot decide between the two! It drives me nuts 🥜 I can sympathise with your friend it is the sort of crazy logic i’d Come up with but can also see the absurdity of her rationale. We are strange creatures indeed.

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I think we feel guilt or maybe disloyal when we get rid of belongings another family member left behind or gifts they gave us. But really giving away their belongings doesn't mean we love them less.

Also when we take the time to find the proper home for stuff (old glasses for pe0ple who can't afford them, etc) is very different than just throwing stuff out and creating new landfills.

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I desperately need to declutter. I used to be so tidy and on top of things. But as I got sicker and sicker (without realising it) so the clutter built up and up around me because a) I don't have the energy to deal with it and b) I find it so hard to make decisions about things. Every now and then I get a day when all the hormones align and I am off. The day after when I'm back to feeling tired and horrible again, I can at least enjoy the space I made the day before. Or the polished surfaces or the sparkling windows. Just such a pity that happens so very rarely.

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I think you are doing brilliant to manage to deal with any of it at all! You should pat yourself on the back for achievement! These days I just think it is not a crime being untidy, just a bit inconvenient! My dogs couldn’t care less they still love me as much as ever 😊. I run away to my allotment and put all my energies there rather than face up to tackling the chaos! I am sure the hypothyroidism is key in it all spiralling out of control. My eldest sister has it and is much worse than me but she hides it all away! I would just do what you can when you can and try not to let what you can’t deal with yet get to you. We have been ill and getting our health back is the most important thing to concentrate on 😉

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It's a very good feeling, isn't it? For me on my not so feeling good days I believe sitting in my recliner and looking at a neat apt helps me cope.

Especially which chronic pains.

I may feel physically bad but I'm not beating myself up emotionally over things I need to do around the house.

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Boots pick up prescriptions from my doctors surgery twice a week, I take thyroxine for a underactive thyroid and also parecetamol for arthritis if I find I do not need any parecetamol I just do not tick the box for a repeat the next month. It remains on the form and I just tick when needed. Get it through the doctors as I can only take Teva because of the fillers.

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The one month limit has been in force where I live (Saffron Walden, Essex) for years now. I thought it was a nationwide thing. When I queried it with my doctor (who retired a couple of years ago) she said it was because of people stock-piling their medications, and I countered with "If I don't take my medication, (i.e. stockpile it) I will die!" Might take a while, but that is why we take thyroxine! Anyway, I order mine every month online and then collect it from Boots a week or so later - if that is a problem, it can be delivered to your home.

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Quite - it is a really stupid argument especially in our case it is hard enough to get an optimal dose out of them let alone voluntarily not bother to take what we get but hide it in a rudy cupboard who are these fools coming up with such tommyrot? It is beyond belief.

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It's a stupid excuse because those people will still do the same. I have witnessed a lot of wastage of medicine because of someone incompetent at the GP surgery issuing the wrong medication many times.

I recommend superdrug online pharmacy. You order your meds online and they deliver to your home or work for free. Excellent.

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I thought it was the norm to only have one month at a time, but I once read on here that we could ask for more and it was at their discretion. I occasionally ask for more and get it, but it defaults back to one.

I now set a reminder in my phone and once a month electronically request it. I then set a reminder to pick it up!

I have a dispensing practice which means there is always a delay of at least 4 days and usually a week between ordering and picking up so I have to be organised. I’d far prefer to be able to take my prescription anywhere, but I can’t.

On the other hand and especially after watching ‘Hospital’ on tv last night, I’m eternally grateful that we have a NHS, we don’t have to pay for treatment and I haven’t got anything more serious.

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You can still ask for and get a paper prescription even if the surgery has a dispensary. I do this for my HRT as the surgery tries to fob me off with the cheaper generic that is weak and I won't have it. So I post my paper script to an online pharmacy that will always give me the brand name I want.

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I always ask for a paper prescription. I started to sign up to an online pharmacy a while ago, then realised it was by electronic prescription only. I would be very interested in an online pharmacy that you can send a one off prescription to.

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I use this one:

pharmacy2u.co.uk/prescripti...

But you would need to check with them if they supply the medication you need. I use them for my HRT. Excellent service.

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Thank you.

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Over the years I have asked several times but to no avail. I once wrote a stinky letter because I knew I was going to run out on a two week holiday arranged at short notice, and I was beside myself as the receptionist was difficult. I hand delivered it - the surgery was shut for lunch - minor panic but someone who worked there was waiting to be let in. When I told her my plight, she immediately sorted it for me - told me to always ask to be put through to the pharmacy, and ever since it has been okay. With usually a weeks turnaround, one months supply is not enough. But, with my electronic reminders in my diary I'm usually ahead now. Phew! Thanks for listening :) :)

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I once overheard a conversation at a bus stop - an old guy who had had heart surgery at a leading heart hospital and who openly admitted he hadn’t been well because he couldn’t see the point in taking all the pills he was being given so I imagine his house would have had all his expensive medications stockpiled when he finally died because he wasn’t taking his prescribed and presumably necessary medicines!

In the south of England where we live I have never been given more than one month at a time, I gather for the reasons you have given above and like you I always take my tablets - when I was given statins which made me so ill I stopped taking them I told the doctor because I didn’t want to keep getting them and wasting them. I’ve also been taking the same pills for the last twenty or so years so I know I will get on with them.

When I had to get an emergency prescription when I was staying with my sister In Scotland I was given a three month supply which was standard up there at that time.

My brown inhaler changed a few years ago too - I was told it has a more environmentally friendly carrier - or something like that. I used to it now but it took a while to get used to.

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I used to use a brown inhaler when I was younger then seemed to grow out of the problem. Recently, following a nasty chest infection last autumn I had to have one again. It's definitely got a different carrier. I can't keep the first puff in! It explodes back out in a huge cough no matter what I do to try to hold it. The second puff stays put. It's weird.

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That’s exactly how I was to start with. Fist mouthful coughing fit, nextone was fine. I’ve got a spacer thing now which might be better but I think I’ve just got used to it. The new carrier might help the environment but it didn’t seem to do much for me.

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She gave me one of those spacer things. Really convenient to carry around! And I can't tell if it worked at all with that thing on. I used it about twice. It's now in the cupboard.

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Theweird thing is last time I had an annual ‘asthma check’ it was with a new nurse who changed the way of tak8ng it. I used to blow out so that my lungs were empty then inhale, hold it for a while then exhale completely then do it again.

Oh no, now with the new spacer the idea is that I just breath in and out. Well for a start it makes me feel like I’m hyperventilating and second - what if you aren’t breathing deeply enough? How is that going to get the meds to where they need to be?

As my peak flow was good with the old method I’m afraid I’ve g9ne back to doing it the way I was shown first.

Gosh I feel I’m maybe as bad as those people who choose not to keep their prescribed medicines. On the other hand I am totally compliant with my daily BP pills and RA pills. It’s just such a stupid change when my peak flow is good.

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If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it. I'm with you, I'm still emptying my lungs and inhaling on the puff and holding it. Except for that first puff when it insists on coming back out with a cough.

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Better hide it before the stockpile police come to your house!

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I've encountered many people (mainly men it has to be said!) who are not scrupulous about taking their medication, for various conditions. The whole spectrum from some who miss the odd one or don't take them on weekend trips away, to people who take them only rarely. We even occasionally have people on the forum confessing that they don't take their Levothyroxine regularly.

Being in the position of feeling sick in hours if I miss a dose, and struggling to get well, it makes me quite cross! But on the other hand who knows what useless prescriptions people have been given, they may be protecting their health just by being careless. Or maybe unconsciously know they're better off without.

Whichever way, I don't think it's the role of a medic or anyone else to judge. I still want those people to be provided with the medication they need, even if they make the choice not to take it.

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On the same thread, I and many people on the forum have had the experience of not getting their medication correctly while in hospital. It's not just patients who are careless with medicines!

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Patients may also be ill with impaired judgement those prescribing and supplying the medications have no excuse but sloppiness and a negligent attitude for such errors

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Yes, very true. Many people may struggle with handling all the treatments and taking them correctly, or not have the concentration or dexterity to divvy up their doses. This is probably quite common in people with a variety of illnesses.

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It must become overwhelming for many especially if they have multiple tablets to take. Those pill taking boxes are no use at all if you don’t even know what day it is. It seems simple taking a few tablets, but really it is a lot more complex that you realise especially if your faculties are compromised. Thank goodness my pill regimen is very straight forward but just occasionally I forget to take mine. I take a supply with me to deal with the infrequent lapses of memory, but I sometimes think what if you can’t remember if you did or did not take them - it could become a right old mess.

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Isn’t that what they claim about us if we say we still feel unwell on Levothyroxine? Non compliance.

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I hardly believe the heart surgery patient who couldn’t be bothered to take his medication is the norm and why should we suffer because of his personal negligence?

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I hope he was a one off. Plus I don’t think anyone knew he wasn’t taking his meds so I’m sure his personal negligence is to blame for the inconvenience we are having with monthly prescriptions. I’d agree with the person who said they think someone somewhere is profiting from 12 or so prescriptions being prescribed for one person and dispensed as opposed to 3 or 4.

As for the heart surgery patient as someone who wouldn’t dream of not taking my meds I was horrified listening to him, an awful lot of money must have been spent on getting him back on his feet again. He seemed quite proud of himself and appeared to be quite compos mentis - he was talking to an acquaintance.

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I agree his attitude is absurd but you cannot force people to take their medication. That is something only they can take responsibility for. I just think he is probably the exception not the rule so why then extrapolate the extraordinary to apply restrictive and unnecessary measures on to the ordinary who mainly do as they are instructed by medical professionals in whom they trust. More than likely It will actually be yet another way of denuding public assets into private pockets. I wonder what the source of this directive is.

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Actually when I see all these adverts popping up on TV where companies will sort out your prescription to ‘save busy people time’ when it comes to collecting their monthly prescriptions I always wonder who profits.

I mean someone must be making a profit somewhere, I may be wrong but I don’t think patients pay for the service and i know I’m cynical but I just have a sneaky feeling that the public must be losing out somewhere - again.

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The NHS must pay them centrally - it all needs illucidating so we know who they are and how it all works. It all sounds good but as they are not the NHS it is effectively another type of privatisation and they will be profiting handsomely I am sure. Yet another layer of obfuscation. Ultimately we do pay through our NI contributions. At least it is free at the point of supply but I bet that could change once the majority are using it and the other options are junked.

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When my mother in law died her cupboards were over full of prescriptions due to an automatic renewal service that delivered monthly. Large boxes of paracetamol and gaviscon mostly....drugs that were to be taken when required not as a regular thing. It had been set up by surgery and she did not know how to stop it. She kept telling the man at the door and we phoned surgery but still they were delivered...such a waste of nhs

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So now the patient has to suffer the inconvenience of monthly prescriptions not the NHS who's system was broken!

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Once ore though it is maybe not the system but the human error running it, costing £1000

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Hells bells! What a nightmare treating her like a dispensary!

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I don't wish to interfere with your asthma diagnosis but am concerned that your inhaler is lasting less than a month and so should the pharmacist. Is this a blue one for use up to five times a day when needed? If so you should be having a preventative treatment as well which in usual circumstances would then cut down on the need for more use of the blue one.

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Yes, check the Asthma UK guidelines. Do you have an asthma plan??

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I actually have no idea what an asthma plan is. But I get regular text messages asking if I am happy with my asthma medication an a summons to the asthma clinic once a year.

Shame they don't do thyroid medication text messages!!

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Well, all so called preventative cortiscosteroid ones just gave me oral thrush and inability to speak in the morning, and never made one bit of difference to how many puffs I needed on blue one. Eventually I just stopped collecting prescription - then I got fed up with all the reviews making me lose pay for taking time off, so I started buying my own online instead. Then I discovered Buteyko breathing - and as long as I don't breathe through my mouth (peak flow test always used to give me an attack), I barely need the inhaler - 10 puffs a day down to a couple a year. I think NHS asthma guidelines are stuck in the dark ages

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That sounds like you have sorted the problems well, carnation might need better medical help.

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Thank you for your concern, all of you, about my asthma.

Firstly, I have been asthmatic since age 2 - 62 years, so I am fairly clued up.

I have/had 2 preventative inhalers. Both were 60 doses each but one of them was twice daily so only lasted a month. At more than £30 an inhaler I'm not surprised they wouldn't give me 2!! I have a salbutamol (blue) inhaler, for emergencies. I would guess the last time I used that was last winter when I had a bad cough for a month :)

The pharmacist, to be fair, said I was so well controlled she was tempted to ignore guidelines an leave me as I was. But the new option is a combined inhaler which will in theory be more convenient. So I have it for a trial, with instruction to ring and say which I prefer. I will be making it very clear if I am not as well on the new inhaler.

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Pleased Carnation that your asthma is well controlled. My brown inhaler Clenil modulate 100 mg per actuation, two sprays morning and night lasts far longer than a month. Says it is 200 actuations so that would be 50 days.

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Have just checked the new one - 120 doses so twice a day is 2 months. Much better. Lets hope it is OK!

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If you can use your inhaler 5 times a day and take 2 puffs at a time, that means an inhaler would last 20 days (200 puffs in an inhaler). I remember being told not to take more than 6 puffs a day (so it would last 33 days), but that doesn't work if you can't breathe. So you'd expect it to last less than a month in someone who had bad asthma and one a month gives no margin for error or not being able to get the last few puffs as the inhaler has run out of propellant.

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Different inhaler, they vary in dose.

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Monthly could work if they sort the system out so pharmacist always gets the right brand and they arrive to your front door before you need them (and before you go on holiday!) But we’re not speaking of organisations with a strong record for organisation .... are we?

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I can't ever remember having a prescription of over a month! Certainly not since I've been needing regular ones

Ironically, re cupboards full of unused medicines, someone mentioned here about giving up statins but still filling the prescriptions so the doctor didn't find out!

I gave up statins a couple of months ago because of the evidence that they do no good and might even be harmful. I thought it might be a good idea to keep getting the prescription and not using it. I dread being nagged about not taking them, especially because it might make them less willing to listen concerning my thyroid treatment.

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I think you should just not reorder them. I’m sure with all the controversy over them, it is understandable you want to make your own choice.

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Let's hope so. I was only pondering whether I should have kept reordering, but didn't do it, partly because I hate waste!

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Just look them in the eye and tell them you have done your research and you don't want them. They have been pushing them at me for years and every time I say no very firmly. Bloody things.

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If it wasn't for the fact I need them onside concerning my thyroid treatment I wouldn't care. But it does seem the fact there's a controversy about statins is beginning to be accepted by medical people too.

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Statins don't impact on thyroid so they would be very out of order to reduce your thyroid care because you don't want statins. The controversy around statins has been running for decades. I first started buying and reading books about cholesterol and statins in my 30's, I am in my 50's now.

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They wouldn't do it because of that, but I don't want to get a reputation as an awkward patient so be less likely to be listened to when it really matters. The pharmacist who is overseeing my thyroid medication seems really good in some ways, but when I suggested it might be due to poor conversion because my T4 (though high) was in range and TSH "Rock bottom" at 0.01 she looked quite shocked at the very thought. And even more so when I asked if they ever test T3.

So I agreed to a slight decrease in Levo (have no hyper symptoms). If it doesn't work, she might listen eventually

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It’s your choice for taking drugs. My husband to,d the Dr to his face he didn’t want to take the statins. The Dr was fine, said it was personal choice. 5 years on, he’s now actually taking them as his particular condition has worsened (nothing to do with not taking statins).

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I had a whole raft of bloods done last week - yes unusual I know but it was a new nurse practitioner who, after prescribing Levo and me mentioning I'd been more tired decided to test 'everything' to see what was going on. I got a call from the surgery yesterday asking if I wanted to come in and see the nurse or have a phone consultation. When the receptionist mentioned cholesterol I said I don't need to talk to the nurse I know what she's going to say and that as I understood it, hypothyroidism can affect cholesterol and it would be best to wait till I'd been on Levo for a while and see if it made a difference.

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I was brave and didn’t want to take them and didn’t want to not reorder them, I wanted statins off my prescription altogether so I made an appointment and just said they made me feel really ill and I wasn’t going to take them. I was ordered a ‘better’ brand but I declined.

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Well no medications are wasted that way. The prescription is just proof in the case of medical negligence claims I believe they are filed at the the pharmacy and never go back to the surgery who issued them. So keeping the scripts stops it there. It is a shame we have to end up pretending like this to keep doctors off our backs

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Did she have a search warrant?

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lol.

The thing is that people like home carers and district nurses have to check people's medications and suchlike, because many of those they visit are physically or mentally unable to look after themselves properly. Keeping track of medicines and (if you get them delivered) stopping the ones you don't need, can get complicated even if we are generally with it.

I used to work for the Alzheimer's society and it wasn't unusual to find nasty smelly things in the fridge or a trifle or meat pie in the microwave quietly growing whiskers! We just had to check things like that. Usually (not always!) the person agreed to having things thrown out.

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Oops, I found a furry crust in our breadbin this morning...

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Growing your own penicillin? :D

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Microwaved furry whiskers sound appetising 😳 what on earth made them get possessive about those? There must be an interesting story behind wanting to keep hold of rancid food.

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My mum has Alzheimers. When she lived alone (120 miles away from me) she would buy food, but she couldn't remember how to cook it and didn't remember how long it had been there. I had to throw things out when she wasn't looking or she accused me of being wasteful. There are many confused elderly people out there with no-one to look out for them.

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It is very tragic - I am so sorry about your mum, carnation

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Just on a cat burglaring mission?

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Have you got the right gear?

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How is a one-month Rx going to make people start taking meds as prescribed? Nonsense.

It does make refills a big nuisance for people who *do* take their medications.

We've had one-month-only for quite a while. I make sure to order the first day we're allowed to, but between MD and pharmacy delays, we still end up missing doses. :/

I prefer to support local businesses, but really leaning toward an online service.

Not sure if that would be better or worse, come the looming #Brextastrophe, though.

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I have read all the comments here and what I find very difficult to understand is that when the surgery restricts prescriptions to one month only, surely this will incur more costs overall for the NHS.

If we are talking about long term medication such as levothyroxine prescribing only one month at a time will mean that someone has to dispense that medication 3 times instead of once if a 3 month prescription was dispensed, so the person prescribing has to spend three time as long on that task.

Additionally I am assuming that the pharmacy dispensing the medication charges three times for the dispensing, and sometimes delivery, of the medication.

Finally of course it means that the patient has the inconvenience of having to repeatedly re ordering a long term medication, it doesn't make any sense from an economic or convenience point of view, my cynical (and the longer I live the more cynical I seem to get!) head might suggest that someone somewhere is making some money out of the NHS.

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My thoughts exactly! Someone, somewhere profits from it.

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Very good point - they should be unmasked

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I have never not had one month’s prescription only on all my daily medications ( for hypothyroidism, diabetes, fibromyalgia), the exception being items like insulin pens that come in packs of 5 and for some would last a few weeks, others perhaps 6 months. Perhaps it’s to share out the drugs better across all patients!

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I thought the Harold Shipman case was behind the change in prescriptions being more regulated.

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What have we got to do with Harold Shipmans abuse of the system? I never heard of anyone administering their Levothyroxine stockpile as the method of murder!

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Well judging by the affect that Levo has on me, I’m sure someone could have a damned good try.

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Did it make you very ill or was it ineffectual? Both in my case 🙄 (nothing a bit of NDT couldn’t fix!) I think it is quite hard to take enough to kill unless you are allergic to it as some are on here or like me the ticker is damaged by years of untreated hypothyroidism. I am sure Carol Carpenter took 10x the normal replacement dose and it took a few years before she died of a heart attack, which no doubt it provoked. She didn’t even have hypothyroidism 😳

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It makes me ill and has a toxic effect on my body. I’m also a bad converter so my FT3 levels are through the floor on Levo. A double whammy. NDT has saved me.

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Same here Grincho on the conversion front I have the polymorph for poor conversion after just a few days of 1/4 grain NDT I suddenly started to feel hugely better after two years suffering badly on Levothyroxine no matter what dose I took I felt dreadful. I found out later I had the DIO2 gene thing. NDT was my lifesaver.

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I think it only covered controlled drugs, levothyroxine is not a CD according to the UK.gov controlled drugs list. According to pharmacy journal the changes would have done nothing to stop Shipman anyway.

pharmaceutical-journal.com/...

He was only caught because he forged Kathleen Grundy’s will on his typewriter and her daughter, who was a solicitor, knew the forged will was too shoddy to have been something her mother would have commissioned - she was once Mayoress of Hyde and a woman of some public standing - also it omitted much of her property, presumably because Shipman only knew of some of her assets. This is what alerted suspicion. The typewriter keys matched the forgery and when the police/forensic went to his surgery he gave them the typewriter saying I think this is might be what you are looking for. This was the closest he ever got to a confession. Had he not forged the will he would probably never been discovered as a mass murderer. And it could happen again. Somewhat sobering thoughts.

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Judepee , Hi Carnation , this is all to do with cost . Yes it is to cut down on patient stockpiling but what a lot of people fail to realize is that both GP's and Pharmacists get paid for each prescription written , and then each prescription has a charge , and every drug written on the prescription is costed , then the prescription is sent off to the prescription pricing authority which used to be in Newcastle upon Tyne .

Yes I agree that this one month policy does stop stockpiling , but it must be costing the NHS a fortune .

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Didn't know that!!!

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How can it stop stockpiling it it is a medicine necessary for life? Or do you mean stockpiling in the pharmacy rather than by the patient?

False economy indeed.

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I was a practice nurse (now retired). We had serious concerns about a young lad who was requesting blue inhalers frequently so seemed to be over-using. His mother, on the other hand, who also suffered from asthma, hadn’t made a request for her prescription for an inhaler for quite a while, so it looked like her asthma was well under control.

It turns out she was requesting inhalers for herself on his prescription because his prescriptions were free and she had to pay for hers. She didn’t see anything wrong in doing this. (It’s fraud as far as I’m concerned but the surgery took no action.)

I know it’s not the same as stockpiling, but it seems it’s a mindset for some: “it’s NHS, so it doesn’t matter”.

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Is this very common? Does it warrant everyone getting only one months supply of an essential medicine no mater what problems this might cause or what excessive costs it incurred on the supposedly stretched NHS?

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I'm surprised that you only have one inhaler. My grandson usually has about 3 - so he could have one at home, leave one in school and have a spare. He also had different colours one for if he had an attack and I think the other colour was for maintenance puposes.

I think in many cases people do start taking medication but if they're feeling better don't finish them; so it's not always the case that they'll pick them up without any intention of taking any. I think also sometimes people are still intimidated by doctors so if the doctor prescribes something they don't like to refuse so act as though they are complying.

I've got a head like a sieve so if I don't have a reminder on my mobile phone for something it doesn't happen - I've driven round with no MOT on my car for about 5 days in the past. I put a reminder on my phone now but also set up a reminder with DVLA. So even if you don't use a mobile phone much at least get a large calendar and put a reminder on there for your medication.

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Weren’t the NHS advising not to finish a course of antibiotics if you felt well again only last year against all the previous advice that the course must be finished - we just can’t win!

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I didn't know that. I suppose it's because of the overuse of antibiotics in the past. But sometimes people don't finish them and then become unwell again. As you say we can't win.

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It was a real surprise to me it was last autumn I think I heard it 1st on radio4. I haven’t taken any for a very long time but I think I’d stick to the old advice if I got some wretched infection that would not shift. I always understood it could help the bugs become resistant to that antibiotic, which we really do not want. I find now my hypothyroidism is treated I rarely get ill, before that I was a walking germ factory. One illness after another.

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That does happen - and it will still happen when they change to 28 day scripts.

Some people do ‘collect’ drugs but the main waste comes from being given a two month course and then having meds changed because they’re upsetting patient in some way.

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I have read all the comments and been dismayed by the stories of stockpiled and unused medications. Although England now (and thankful for the NHS!) I lived in Africa most of my working life, and many of the hospitals and clinics I knew (I was a teacher with medical friends) relied upon supplies of "discarded" medicine - out of date, or returned because not needed, etc.). So a means should be found for sending these stockpiled and unused medications to where they will be appreciated!

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I thought you could return them to a pharmacist

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Bu they have to be destroyed even if unopened as they have left the pharmacy.

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Better than them being dumped and possibly being eaten by animals or children or poisoning the environment

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So they think asthmatics waste their inhalers!? Unlikely. All that will waste is your time, the surgery's time and your employer's HR budget. Lunatic, when you consider than GPs keep complaining that they haven't enough time to deal with appointments (you might not need the GP, but it'll still tie up the receptionist). You can buy asthma inhalers online at the usually online pharmacies (but more expensive than NHS, of course)

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In answer to your comments about search warrants etc :) the pharmacist was visiting elderly people in a professional capacity, and was actually shown the stocks of medicines by the patient.

She also said that they had carrier bags full of unused meds returned to them on a daily, not occasional, basis.

Changing to monthly will not make any difference in these cases.

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That’s care in the community for you - people unable to cope with taking medications left to their own devices. Is it any wonder medications go into a cupboard unopened. Why were they not getting appropriate support when the medications ought to have been taken? I can’t see how this relates in any way to restricting thyroid medication to one monthly prescriptions.

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Well if they do change it, it will make life difficult as I need to check what brand is being dispensed before I put the prescription in. I can't take Teva but any of the others is fine - only once have I had to try three chemists to get what I want but a couple of times I've had to try a second one - this is why I refuse to nominate a pharmacy. Having to this each month will be ridiculous.

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Agreed, I can only take Actavis/Northstar. It can be a long trek sometimes!

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You should be able to get NorthStar at Lloyds (now including former Sainsbury pharmacies), and the same product, packaged as Almus, from Boots. Of course, it will always depend on whether you have either of those near you!

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The long walk is to Lloyds! Not impressed by our Boots, and prefer to support a British company where possible. Was doing Ok with a new localish pharmacy who were prepared to order in but apparently they have been taken over again :(

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Sorry to disappoint, but Lloyds (and AAH distributors) are part of Celesio in the UK which is part of McKesson Europe which is part of the giant McKesson in the USA!

mckesson.com/

:-(

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I agree - having a nominated pharmacy would be acceptable if, when I go there and they don't have what I want, I can get a bit of paper to take elsewhere. Until then, I would rather go and pick up the paper myself.

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I keep having similar conversations...

Asthma tablets 28/7

One inhaler 45/7

Other inhaler 30/7

....feel like I am there every week collecting something as daughter on tablets 28/7 & inhaler 45/7...it’s not like I have work to fit in anywhere!!!

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Looking for further information about 28-day prescribing, I happened across a Welsh document - about six years old. I imagine much of what happens in Wales is similar to England?

The Welsh Government has stated its support for 28-day prescribing in its 2010 medication waste campaign, but qualifies this by prompting prescribers to consider other intervals (usually shorter) where clinically appropriate9.

Longer prescribing intervals have been called for both by patient groups10,11 and some GPs12, citing patient inconvenience (and costs from travel and prescriptions [in England]), excess GP workload and dispensing costs as negative aspects of a 28-day policy. As generic drug costs fall, the cost of reimbursing for the act of dispensing (fees and allowances) may in some cases exceed the cost of the drugs. Repeat dispensing is increasingly being used and can provide a mechanism to address some of these concerns (see Section 6.0).

Longer prescribing intervals may be appropriate for some patients on stable doses of certain medicines (e.g. hormone replacement therapy [HRT], contraceptives and levothyroxine). A proportion of patients on levothyroxine remain on a stable dose for many years, suggesting that all prescriptions for this medicine could be based on longer prescribing intervals; however, many of these patients have other conditions, and may therefore have multiple medicines being prescribed. For example, a sample of three Welsh GP practices in 2012 noted that just 12–14% of levothyroxine patients were solely prescribed levothyroxine, the remainder receiving additional medicines on their repeat prescription. Prescribing medicines for the same patient with different intervals may result in the patient having to make as many, if not more, trips to the GP and pharmacy, or may lead to the patient having excess stocks of some medicines and not others. Prescribing according to manufacturers’ pack sizes (often a mix of both 28- and 30-day packs), together with multiples of “as required” medicines, such as analgesics, compound this effect.

awmsg.org/docs/awmsg/medman...

Homeswoman Jnetti

Your earlier replies above relate to the above. Yes, cost of doing more prescriptions can easily outweigh the potential saved cost of the medicines.

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That explains why my HRT is only one months supply...not at all convenient. It goes automatically to my nominated chemist but they never have it ready it involves going in at least three times and I usually have to go without it for a few days which means I don't sleep!

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Hi carnation,

I have had my prescriptions for a months supply only for many years, I thought everyone did! I order online and collect the "green copy" from the health centre, and take it to the chemist myself, as I try and keep the same brand.If they don't have it I go to another chemist.

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I used to get five months of Levothyroxine, now reduced to two months which is OK for me. One month only for Amlodopine!

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Well. An interesting debate. All Ibcan add is that I get a 15 month supply of NDT at a time. None of it is wasted because I pay for it.

If patients knew the cost of the meds they waste and hoard, they might think again. I’ve heard so many folks lately beefing about having their Paracetomol scripts stopped. A 200 pack of Patacetomol costs NHS £6. You can buy 16 for 17p. Get a grip.

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Yes but why does the NHS pay so much for the paracetamol for instance.... that's the scandal, the same as being ripped off for T3. I just don't understand why they pay these folk at the top astronomical salaries and they don't do anything about this.

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I don't understand. Even at 1 month the hoarders will still board. Makes no sense.

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I have just started noticing this! Getting less than a month worth in prescription too sometimes. I would be cool with it, If I knew that my next months would be ready in time. But it never is so...

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My husband is a T2D, has been for years and years and he has only ever been able to collect his pills monthly, it's a real fag! As a mature man of intelligence it is ridiculous to say that it's to protect him from overtaking his meds! He takes metformin, is he really going to try taking more? Of course not. People hoarding meds on the other hand is not a rare phenomena, there are a lot of folk, especially the elderly, who have repeat prescriptions which are delivered or collected and just put in a cupboard because they aren't capable of remembering when or what to take and no one checks. It is hugely wasteful because all that can be done with them is to destroy them even if they're in date and unopened ☹️

My daughter is asthmatic, she just side steps the GP and orders online, yes she has to buy the inhalers, they're about £14 I think but she feels that is preferable to having to try to get a GP appointment, then collect them from a chemist etc. She is allowed 2 a month, gained by them first having to have a GP script after which they write a private one. Saves her a lot of hassle and enables her to have several so that she can leave one in the car and one by her bed etc.

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That's very sensible of your daughter. However I did look up the cost of the one I was taking, and it was £24.80 to the NHS. No sign of being able to buy privately. I don't have any income - no pension till 66 - so I have to be very careful with finances.

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Prior to radioactive iodine treatment I was on carbimazole for 3 years and had monthly monthly prescriptions - well 28 days - which is insane considering there is only one month out of 12 with 28 days. For the last few months I've been on levothyroxine and had prescriptions for 2 months at a time. When collecting my latest prescription the pharmacist told me the GP had increased my dosage to 75mg. I last saw the endo In October and was told my levels were fine. Checking my current medication - it's 75mg and has been from the start. Prior to the radioactive iodine when I was on carbimazole - the dosage was 25mg a day. Told pharmacist about the change in medication and perhaps he was mixing the drugs up, he just said oh yes !!

With regards to stock piling of drugs, my sister in law passed in December, he gp did repeat prescriptions and they were delivered to her house - she was 89. There was every medication she'd been prescribed for the last 10 years at least in her property including liquid morphine ! I've been there when she has repeatedly told the doctor on the phone that she wasn't taking this and that drug because they made her poorly, but still it was being delivered. We took all the excess medications back to the pharmacy - which is based in her gp's surgery. The pharmacist was horrified with the amount and got snotty as if it was our fault ! I soon told her they were the ones constantly dishing the stuff out !

My gp used to do a medication review every year - done by the pharmacist - but that stopped about 3 years ago.

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I have been on one months scripts for the last 15 years. I currently take 13 prescription drugs a day. I am both underactive and diabetic. I have been able to request online for as long as I can remember now. To cover times like holidays etc I just ask for double, never a problem. As I take so many I have three week boxes now, as soon as I need to fill up at end of three weeks I reorder. Prior to this I just remembered when it was time. x

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