Helicobacterpylori and Thyroïdites

[Raoudha]

Please any one know if there is a relation between HP and thyroid problèmes

Thank u

[Marz]

Probably due to low stomach acid which is common when hypo. Also can lead to low B12 ...

[Raoudha in reply to Marz]

Merci beaucoup

[jimh111 in reply to Marz]

Helicobacter pylori increases stomach acid which is why it is the prime cause of gastric and duedenal ulcers. I should add that very many people have HP without any harmful effects.

I don't know of any link between HP and thyroid dysfunction. HP is acquired via poor hygiene by people preparing food.

[Marz in reply to jimh111]

I thought stomach acid was there to protect us from nasties ....

[jimh111 in reply to Marz]

It does but HP has adapted to this environment and even ups the acidity so that it doesn't have competition from other nasties.

[Marz in reply to jimh111]

Oh ! Have not read that before.

[greygoose in reply to jimh111]

That is atrocious! So, what sort of poor hygiene when preparing food? Not washing your hands enough? Not washing veggies? Raw chicken?

[jimh111 in reply to greygoose]

It is belived there is a 'human reservoir' and that transmission is faecal-oral, so hand washing is important but of course we can't monitor the hygiene of everyone who comes in contact with our food. I must stress that the transmission route is not known for certain. Ulcers used to be more common in areas where people were in close contact with each other, living in high density housing such as in Japan. Ulcers used to be put down to 'stress', rather like hypothryoidism is now blamed on 'depression'.

If you want to know more about the discovery of helicobacter pylori Google 'Barry Marshall', he along with Robin Warren discovered this bacterium. Unfortunately the staff at the Perth University Hospital do not get recognition for the work they did in finding the bacterium.

[greygoose in reply to jimh111]

Thank you.

[Raoudha in reply to jimh111]

Helpful Thanks

[Raoudha in reply to greygoose]

Merci

[greygoose in reply to Raoudha]

De rien.

[SlowDragon Administrator]

H Pylori is more likely if you have low stomach acid - a common symptom of being hypothyroid

It's apparently widespread.

H Pylori can also be a trigger for Hashimoto's

It can apparently be transmitted easily, just a kiss or shared drink etc

drhedberg.com/hashimotos-th...

naturalendocrinesolutions.c...

scdlifestyle.com/2017/04/gu...

hypothyroidmom.com/hashimot...

[Raoudha in reply to SlowDragon]

Helpful tank you

[jimh111]

My knowledge of helicobacter pylori was gained in the 1990s, so it is a bit out of date! At that time the study of gastric acid and HP was retrospective, they looked at already infected patients. It now seems that the initial stages of HP infection may exhibit achlorhydria (low stomach acid). This paper, which I've only skimmed, seems a reputable document and gives a better explanation google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q... . It seems the location of the infection determines the amount of acid.

The way HP is transmitted is not known for certain. My money is on the faecal oral route, lack of hygiene throughout the food chain. I don't know how long the bacterium survives in the open but I always wash fruit. Not many farms have toilets and hand washing facilities in the fields! I doubt it is spread easily by mouth to mouth kissing, surely they could recruit a few hundred teenagers for a clinical trial.

There are claims that HP infection predisposes to thyroid autoimmunity, but I doubt it. As far as I know correlations are weak and both infections increase with age which can give misleading results. If HP infection had a noticeable effect on acquiring thyroid autoimmunity far more men would suffer from Hashimoto's. Maybe sickly people are more likely to acquire both?

As you can see this is a mix of a little science and a fair whack of speculation. However, I would be wary of 'alternative' advice which tends to have a predilection for 'amazing' facts.

[Raoudha in reply to jimh111]

Thounsand Tanks intellectually generous .Jimh111 god bless

[jimh111]

An update and a correction! I stated 'If HP infection had a noticeable effect on acquiring thyroid autoimmunity far more men would suffer from Hashimoto's'. This is essentially wrong in that although autoimmune hypothyroidism is far more prevalent in women when it comes to autoimmunity such as having positive TPO antibodies the difference is not so dramatic. It seems that women are more likely to succomb to the antibodies and go on to develop thyroid disease.

This study kjim.org/journal/view.php?d... found the prevalence of TPO-Ab positivity was higher in subjects with H. pylori infection (8.6% vs. 7.00%). However, both tend to increase with age and this creates a statistical distortion. When adjusting for age and other factors they found an 'odd ratio' of 1.02. i.e. those with H. pylori infection were 2% more likely to be TPO-Ab positive. I think the real figure will be a bit higher because they excluded subjects with a family history of thyroid disease and these people may be more susceptible.

The above is only relevant to people who are not TPO-Ab positive at the moment, for the rest it's too late to worry.

It seems that one study found that eliminating H. pylori infection may reduce TPO-Ab levels allthyroid.org/research/sum... . I don't like posting reports of studies I haven't read as they are often misleading but I won't be able to get a full copy for some time. Taking it at face value it seems that the H. pylori treatment reduced TPO-Ab levels by 73% compared to 27% in untreated patients. We have to be cautious because the sample size was so small and it's quite possible the patients were at different stages in their autoimmune progression. It's also possible that the antibiotic treatment, which is quite aggressive, may have eliminated other infections. However, the best knowledge we have so far is that elimination of H. pylori reduces TPO-Ab levels. It seems reasonable to carry out a blinded trial in symptomatic patients who have high antibody levels that are not falling - to see if it reduces autoimmunity and more importantly symptoms.

Just a glance at this subject reveals there is an awful lot of research and it is very complicated. So, I'm not going to dig any deeper into this hole!

EDITED. I just found a comment on the study which found that eliminating H. pylori reduced TPO-Ab levels which states the controls were patients who refused antibiotic treatment. Four out of five had no symptoms and one was allergic to the antibiotics. It may still be that eliminating H. pylori reduces TPO-Ab but this was not a placebo controlled study.

[Raoudha]

Appreciate Merci 🙏 I was not knowing anything about HP now I know

[jimh111]

An update. I managed to get a copy of the letter which describes a decrease in thyroid autoantibodies after eradicating HP ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?te... . This was a small study, 5 patients and 5 controls all with TPO ranging from 966 to 9715. The controls were poorly selected, one had allergy to antibiotics, 4 declined as they had no gastric symptoms.

The controls tended to have none or a mall reduction in antibodies, up to 50%. The treated patients had antibody reductions from 50% to 90%. These were generally over a period of a couple of years.

It seems that if you have high TPO levels (above 1000?) and gastric symptoms it is definitely worth getting checked for HP, not only from a gastrointestinal reasons but treatment may also reduce antibody levels. Treatment for HP involves aggressive anitbiotic therapy which carries its own risks of triggering immune responses, so it doesn't make sense that treatment is tagetted at those likely to benefit.

[Raoudha]

HeyJimh111

Thank u for your interesting replay

I just start quadritherapie to get ride of HP very difficult protocole

I hope everything will be ok