My daughter has heard of someone who’s hashimotos has gone. By eating a vegan diet and is trying to encourage me to do the same. Thoughts please people?
Vegan diet: My daughter has heard of someone who... - Thyroid UK
Vegan diet
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joannech
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Most likely won't do anything. There are many, many vegan Hashimoto's sufferers - that is people who were already ethical vegans and remain so after developing Hashimoto's. I believe some have been able to help their symptoms - others not at all - but so have others been able to help their symptoms on other diets. I've also seen the stories about people being cured on a vegan diet. Whether they're true or not, they're few and far between and most vegans with Hashi's still have Hashi's (me being one of them).
There's little to no evidence that veganism is any better than continuing to eat meat but including substantially more vegetables. Furthermore for thyroid patients veganism presents particular challenges in terms of protein consumption as two main sources of protein for vegan are soy (acts like an anti-thyroid) and wheat gluten (seitan-which many people choose to avoid). There are other sources (beans etc) and so I don't mean to imply its impossible by any means if you really wanted to go vegan but I don't think there's any evidence it will cure anything
Please don't post such incorrect information. There are a wide range of protein rich vegan foods, such as all green leafy veg, hemp protein smoothies, vegan cheeses etc etc...I have been a lifelong vegan, have never consumed soya, have been gluten free for 12 years and have never been ' low in protein'. I'm now 48. There are many lifelong and long term vegans who have not relied on soy at all, as it is one of the most environmentally damaging monocrops. And most vegans are very informed on nutrition and seitan is not a common choice at all. I've never had it! At least the old chestnut of low B12 hasn't been rolled out...as it is also an incorrect generalisation.
I'm vegan and did have low B12 ... also don't eat soy or gluten. Some myths are founded on reality.
Hello Lala, you seem to be somewhat offended. If you refer to the part where I say "so I don't mean to imply its impossible by any means" you will see that I did not completely deny the possibility of being vegan, nor did I intend to offend. However it is clear that it is Not misinformation as you too acknowledge that you avoid soy and gluten. Leafy greens present an option but excess cruciferous vegetables also act as an anti-thyroid as evidenced by increases in transient hypothyroidism during the cabbage diet craze. So there again is a complications. Finally joannech's main question was will this cure me and you did not address that at all. I maintain that the evidence says no probably not.
Hi, My youngest son and my daughter have both recently gone vegan. My daughter for health reasons - she has auto immune and thought it might help with considerable weight gain over the last few years. My son purely for ethical reasons. They were both brought up as true vegetarians. My son still lives at home - hopefully not for much longer! I have been buying vegan cheese for him from my local Tesco superstore. I am very concerned about the lack of protein in my son's vegan diet. On looking at the labeling of the vegan cheese, I was very surprised to find that most of it contains no protein at all and the one's that do contain protein contain very little - much less than in regular cheese.
How can it be called, "cheese" if it contains no protein? Where do you buy your vegan cheese as you say it is a source of protein? My daughter is being more sensible and is buying supplements so I'm not so worried about her.
Any advice would be most welcome.
I will be 73 years old tomorrow and I have had a vegetarian diet for about 20 years then in 2001 I developed breast cancer. After reading Jane Plants book I gave up dairy and I have not had to see my Doctor since them. I have a 5 yearly checkup so my B/P, Cholesterol, Blood sugar and weight were at proper level and I was told to return in 5 years.
People worry about protein but lentils and beans are full of protein. The normal diet is high in protein when cause all the health problems that we have.
I take Citrate Magnesium and vitamin B12 every day and save the NHS money
I think any healthy diet/eating plan is good for you. Lots of healthy fruit and veg. My youngest daughter is on a vegan diet through choice ( no thyroid problems). There are a lot of vegetables with the necessary proteins. She has introduced us to several lovely recipes and I do not miss the meat as such but could never give it up completely or fish.
She has lost over five stone in weight during a 12 month period.
I personally have cut down on red meat and introduced more nuts etc through choice again. I also have gluten free food as I prefer it and I do not get as bloated as I did before.
Nothing will cure a thyroid condition but eating healthy will certainly help with the necessary vitamins and minerals we need.
Cutting out junk food and ready made meals which are full of sugar will also help.
SlowDragonAdministrator
Many, many patients with Hashimoto's find strictly gluten free diet helps or is essential
A large percentage find dairy free diet helps, so if someone was dairy intolerant then going vegan might have helped by "accident"
Hashimoto's affects the gut and leads to low stomach acid and then low vitamin levels
Low vitamin levels affect Thyroid hormone working
What are your most recent results for vitamin D, folate, ferritin and B12.
Poor gut function can lead leaky gut (literally holes in gut wall) this can cause food intolerances. Most common by far is gluten
According to Izabella Wentz the Thyroid Pharmacist approx 5% with Hashimoto's are coeliac, but over 80% find gluten free diet helps significantly. Either due to direct gluten intolerance (no test available) or due to leaky gut and gluten causing molecular mimicry (see Amy Myers link)
But don't be surprised that GP or endo never mention gut, gluten or low vitamins. Hashimoto's is very poorly understood
Changing to a strictly gluten free diet may help reduce symptoms, help gut heal and slowly lower TPO antibodies
Ideally ask GP for coeliac blood test first
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
amymyersmd.com/2017/02/3-im...
chriskresser.com/the-gluten...
scdlifestyle.com/2014/08/th...
drknews.com/changing-your-d...
thyroidpharmacist.com/artic...
Just to expand on Slow Dragons post, the statistic I read was that 76% benefit from a gluten free diet, while around 54% benefit from a dairy free diet, and about 10% benefit from an egg free diet (don't remember the exact number on egg free, but it was low). It could be a fluke that this person is one of the 24% that don't need to be gluten free, but instead is dairy/egg intolerant.
An abundance of vegetable nutrients will also help heal the gut, which is thought to be the root cause of auto-immune disease.
A vegan diet may benefit some, but if your trigger is gluten or soya, veganism alone won't cure.
I don't know about Hashimoto's but I had a pituitary adenoma which disappeared after a year of vegan, endo was not shocked as he said he'd seen it before. dd has recently had bloods, as no one could believe she is healthy as a vegan, and she was above baseline in absolutely everything which vegans supposedly worry about - and that was on a diet of Linda McCartney sausages, brown bread and Biscof. Go to Vegan UK for advice and give it a shot. Best thing I ever did.
There are some incorrect statements above - ounce for ounce there is more protein in sprouts than steaks, there is plenty of protein in dark green veg.
You can reverse autoimmune diseases including hashi’s.
If you have leaky gut then a vegan diet will help.
Gluten is not good for any human, most of all to those with autoimmune disease.
The longest living people are vegans according to a tv documentary where they were looking for the healthiest oldest people in the world. This is not my opinion, it’s what I saw in the documentary.
Chippysue,
I can't quite work out what statements you are saying are incorrect!
You appear to be quoting the statements but where do they appear? Or are your statements corrections of incorrect statements?
It’s easier for you to read the comments above - re lack of protein in vegan diet and then about not being able to do anything about thyroid disease I think it said.
If you disagree with me, I am happy to discuss
Do you mean Brussels Sprouts?
This site, which proclaims the benefits of Brussels Sprouts, comes out with just over 2.5% protein content. (3.98 g per 156 g)
whfoods.com/genpage.php?tna...
No-one, anywhere, seems to claim steak has that little protein - I have found 25% to 50% mentioned.
There is also the issue of the balance of amino acids which can be very different.
This article is somewhat dismissive of claims that vegetables (in this specific case, broccoli) have more protein than steak:
eathropology.com/2013/04/08...
Why do you want to argue? The functional medical doctors and many nutritional experts that I list to and read their books say that people worrying about protein in a vegan or veg diet are silly.
I find it astonishing that you have been spending your time searching this info to prove me wrong ! I am busy living a life, I will have time later to tell you who said this.
I am here to help people, not to be argumentative, have you got out of bed from the wrong side this morning?
Statement 1: If you disagree with me, I am happy to discuss
Statement 2: Why do you want to argue?
I feel it is a part of my admin role to try to ensure the clarity and accuracy of posts and responses. I said absolutely NOTHING to support worrying about protein levels. Just tried to make sure that your claim was true.
The longest living people are vegans.
Well, some, but not the Sardinians:
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazin...
I cannot edit my post ??
I watched a documentary tv programme where they interviewed the longest living healthiest people and they were vegans - I cannot remember what the programme was called.
Every time anyone wants to discuss anything on this forum it’s either closed for comments or challenged. It’s not me saying it so I should have typed that.
If people on here want to have a discussion it is not for you to decide what is correct or incorrect when it’s a discussion!
This appears to be a direct accusation that I have done something to prevent you editing your posts.
I cannot, and have not, done any such thing.
If you believe that discussions are being closed inappropriately, please raise the issue with Thyroid UK.
Not at all, I was able to edit my post afterwards, didn’t realise that you could. I am not accusing g you of anything and just tho k that if only you hadn’t come across so aggressively, maybe you could have just asked where I had heard this info? Which I will attempt to find.
I am not accusing you of anything!
I think it's possible for someone (who doesn't struggle with b12 or iron absorption) who does a very well planned RAW vegan diet to improve their gut biome which may help generic autoimmune issues. However, I suspect that many vegans must realise that they need to supplement, or at least include vegan sourced omega 3 and extra amino acids. Eating a lot of grains, sugar and vegetable fats (high in omega 6 and low in omega 3) would not work. However, cutting out (cows) milk is certainly worth trying to help reduce symptoms (it helps me).
Gone where?
I have to say, without looking into it properly, I would struggle. I really don’t like a lot of the green veg, a plus is I love nuts.
I have found I do get on well with a low carb diet but struggle sticking to it!
I would say it can't hurt to give it a try. If it works for you, you may feel the sacrifice of giving up the foods you love might be worth it. If not, you haven't lost anything by trying. I would say though that you might need to give it a least a couple of months to properly review its effectiveness.
Is it really gone or just euthyroid results for a while? There are plenty of vegans with Hashis, so while it might help lower antibodies in some people (by avoiding dairy and gluten), it probably wouldn't work for everyone. Also, was the person in a county where diagnosis takes place when TSH is around 3 or in the UK where TSH has to be over 10? As I suspect that you can't reverse it after the thyroid has been badly damaged, although it is probably possible to stop further damamge if diagnosed early.
I have suggested to my daughter, there could be many reasons for that persons ‘ turnaround ‘ but she is convinced that a high alkaline diet has its merits. I wondered if you guys had any experience.
Personally I have given up... I’m supplemented up, I’ve been to see Barry Durrent- Peatfield. I’ve tried NDT, adrenal supplements,T3 all of which give me angina likes chest pains. My blood pressure is through the roof. Need I go on, for most of the time I’m fine and fat feeling probably 20 years older than my 54years.
I feel sad that you have given up! You could live another 30 or 40 years feeling really well, it is possible!
Yes alkaline diet - and what is the most acidic food? yes you guessed it - meat.
If you could get to the root cause you can fix it. The answer (I have found) is not the right doctor or the right pill or the right dose.
If you have leaky gut then it needs to be fixed, if you have parasites then they need to be removed, if you have candida then it needs to be killed off and the list goes on but the bottom line is it is hard work! as it has to be 100% of the time, not 80/20. For example if you are gluten free and have a tiny amount of gluten one day it can take up to 6 months for the body to recover from it!
in reply to Chippysue
I have never heard of an alkaline diet (perhaps I should get out more) but any food that goes into the stomach, whether acid or alkaline, will be dealt with in the same way. Your stomach maintains its own highly acidic environment (pH 1.5-3.5) by maintaining its own acid production. Nothing you consume in the way of food can alter the stomach pH (unless you are taking PPI's antacids etc) let alone body pH.
Chippysue in reply to
The people that I know who had cancer and followed an alkaline diet and did other natural treatments no longer have cancer, it makes a huge difference.
in reply to Chippysue
I really don't want to comment on cancer, I was just trying to outline the idea that the body (blood in particular) can become too acidic through food. It is virtually impossible for anyone to have blood that is too acidic, blood is maintained at a roughly neutral pH (perhaps slightly more alkaline) by the buffering systems made up of minerals et al. If the relevant buffers are not available the body will rob these from the bones and anywhere else it can obtain them - if the blood pH drops below 6.8 or goes above 8.0, you could die.
The idea of an alkaline diet has been more widely discredited after one of the founders/main advocates was jailed:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob...
While I don't see a problem advocating healthy eating, I think people need to show caution when advocating the alkaline diet. I don't see harm in following it in parallel, but not as an alternative. You do have to be careful not to neutralise stomach acid though.
and you believe this to be true?
I don’t know about this dr but know that the 1939 cancer act prevents anyone from claiming anything to cure cancer apart from the conventional way. To be honest with you in my experience if anyone is called a quack they are the better doctors, standing up for what they believe eg dr Skinner, myhill and Peatfield to name just a few.
Try reading Izabella Wentz root cause, or doing her thyroid protocol (would be better to do this with a nutritionist, as the supplements are complicated). She recommends an auto-immune paleo diet (no dairy, soya, gluten, eggs, nuts sugar, seeds, it's quite restrictive) for about 1-3 months to remove trigger foods, then reintroduce 1 food every 3 days to see if you react to it.
I've heard of alkaline diets, but thought they were largely discredited now, after one of their main advocates was basically arrested for fraud.
I see this so often. New YouTube video appears - "Hashimoto's healed on a vegan diet". Then the person almost always is still overweight and, fair play, have managed to get their TSH down to 2-4, and it's there where I realise we're playing by different rules, because that would mean my TSH of 3.2 is also 'good'.
I would like to question the idea that vegans live longer. If you study some of the longest living tribes around the world you will find that only a few of them are strictly vegan, some eat small amounts of meat and some eat milk products. What you will find is that they grow everything themselves, no chemicals, no pollution, no GMO, no processed foods, everything eaten fresh and their food choices are based on availability not on any modern fads. In addition to which they, by necessity, take a great deal of exercise and live in supporting communities.
Gluten is such a problem in our society now because it has been changed out of all recognition in the search for greater yields and contains about 50% more gluten than the products our ancestors ate.
I care not if someone is vegan, it is their choice, but I think it is far from the answer for longevity in this society. Unless you grow your own vegetables or buy organic, vegetables, fruits and grains are sprayed with many chemicals in addition to the unhealthy rearing of cattle - profit is what matters and getting food on your plate which 'looks' good and has a long shelf life.
Eating a lot less than a typical Western diet, being outside (plenty of vitamin D), plenty of physical exercise and clean varied and non-polluted diet possibly has more to do with longevity.
Plus many long lived tribes live at high altitude.
Would completely agree that western diet is wheat dependent with daily intake of gluten through increased consumption of bread (hard wheat for bread making has the highest gluten content)
In the Broken Brain series they discussed that every single person reacts to gluten. It apparently causes tendency to leaky gut, it's just that if you are fit and well you can cope with it. Perhaps this explains why such vast numbers of people with autoimmune diseases find strictly gluten free diet so beneficial
Chippysue in reply to
Unfortunately I cannot remember which documentary I watched where they looked for the areas of people living the longest lives and they were vegans and super healthy.
Gluten cannot be digested by any human.
A plant based diet with some raw and some cooked has been said to be the best by the top natural health experts. Again, it's what the animal you eat has been eating, it's about what they have injected into them, the drugs they have had, what their life was like, its a huge debate.
in reply to Chippysue
I am neither for or against being vegan, but in truth you can always find evidence for whichever side you are batting on. I have read many books on longevity in various cultures throughout the world, and whilst it would be easy to attribute all the ailments that we suffer from in our own society as to whether or not we are vegan, there are too many other factors at play that need to be taken into account - stress, pollution, western medicine, breakdown of the family unit, loneliness and isolation - they all impact on the health of the society we live in.
However, I do avoid gluten as I realise it can have a huge impact on our digestive system and health. I do eat meat, not a great deal, but I buy organic grass fed always, otherwise I don't eat it, the same goes for dairy.
I totally agree with you Chippysue. Veganism is not the answer, it's the Whole Food Plant Based Diet that improves overall health by far. Vegans eat Salt, Sugar, Oil and all processed foods and there is evidence that these foods can cause all types of autoimmune diseases.
I started on the Plant Based diet 6 months ago and by doing so have lowered my blood pressure, cholesterol, chronic muscle and joint pain, all of which I had to take medication for - now I don't. My Levothyroxine has also been reduced from 125mg to 50mg.
I feel healthier, fitter, brain fog free, constipation free and the list goes on. I haven't felt as good as I do now in my whole life, I am 64.
Evidence of these benefits are endless, you just have to look for them.
unnopal in reply to
I’ll go one step further in saying, veganism is a fairly recent invention. There are no “strictly vegan” traditional peoples. “Plant-based,” sure, but not vegan.
in reply to unnopal
I would agree, its a sign of a society with too many food choices. Traditional peoples eat what is available to them, no chance of anything being flown in from other countries or a quick trip down to get a burger. Plants, fruits and nuts are easier for people to obtain and grow so is more likely to be their staple diet.
Hi, it depends on the individual. I became vegan at 13 got very ill but because I'm against animal cruelty I endeavoured to commit to veganism. On the advice of a doctor I added back eggs, dairy & fish. As soon as I felt able I would cut out those things. Long story short I stayed vegetarian for 23 years with long stints as vegan. I was the only family member to get chronic illnesses I was on more meds than my old Nan! I wanted to see my kid grow up and so I began to research the optimum human diet going right back to our ancestors. I had studied nutrition and been very aware that what I was eating albeit as balanced as can be, organic and made from scratch at home, it just wasn't working for me, so I started on supplements and although there was a slight improvement I was still very ill. I was still active though and I stuck to the diet for as long as I could. Eventually I gave up and started on an ancestral type diet going to my local farmers market and quizzing them on their ethics etc.... I tentatively started adding in small amounts of grass fed meat to a largely veggie diet. I also did an elimination diet and found out I can't eat wheat, barley, rye, spelt, corn, rice, legumes, cow dairy, cane sugar, soya & many more things without adverse reactions! Unlike some people my ancestral type diet didn' work over night and it was also fairly restrictive. But I was bedridden at that point so I had a lot of unhealth to undo. My two older brothers have recently gone vegan and are voraciously trying to convert the rest of the family by bombarding them with videos and articles etc... I've been there, done that worn the t-hirt! So there is no sway for me. Unfortunately if the diet isn' right for you it can take 20+ years for the damage to show up! Then it takes many years to repair the damage for some if us. So keep researching and see if there are any long term vegans in your own family with perfect health. There is no one answer unfortunately. And if you do go vegan eat whole, organic plant foods and avoid soya and gluten containg foods. Good luck 😊
in reply to Ebs73
There are no long term vegans in my family that I can find. My great grandmother lived until she was over 100 and ate meat and dairy, both of which would have been reared/produced on her own farm. My grandmother was well into her 90's when she died and would have had the same diet.
Its the modern adulteration of food that is causing most problems I believe, people are getting sicker much younger than they did in my day, coeliac disease, allergies, hashimoto's - was unheard of - its a big worry.
Apparantly hemp seeds and quinoa are complete proteins. I include these in my diet, you can just add quinoa to more or less whatever you cook. I'm vegetarian.
I'm vegan and have Hashi's :(. The most important thing is ma healthy diet of proper food, non-processed natural food!
I'm not convinced of the gluten free thing myself, 30 years ago no-one had heard of it, and we've been eating gluten for millenia without a problem. But I respect that others have a different opinion!
It is my opinion that a vegan diet may, or may not, help with Hashis. However, truly independent evidence based peer reviewed research shows that overall health will improve on a whole-food plant-based diet. This can only be a good thing, surely?
Please go to nutritionfacts.org.
When considering the healthiest diets of people on the planet, I suggest that anyone who has an interest should take a look at the 'China Study' by T Colin Campbell.
To add to the China Study PeteRad a must to watch if interested is 'How not to die by Dr Gregor'.
Think this may be the story she is referring to - just gave up wheat, gluten, products and exercised more express.co.uk/life-style/he...
These vitamins/minerals may be of more help, Magnesium citrate, COQ10 and selenium. drruscio.com/reversing-dama... and based on results from this pubmed study ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/266...
I know three people who went vegan and actually developed a thyroid condition. They are intelligent women so would have eaten all the right food. Another had all her eyelashes fall out. I think for as many people that veganism suits there are as many where it is problematic.
I went vegan and also developed thyroid disease. Mine is genetic (developed at the exact same age my mum, not vegan, developed hers). Correlation doesn't equal causation.
Amy Myers MD who wrote the autoimmune solution and izabella wentz who wrote hashimotos the root cause both suggest that a vegan diet is not advisable I found both books really useful and have tweaked my diet accordingly.
Please consider that humans evolved and developed large brains on animal protein and fat, as in wild caught seafood, grass fed beef, lamb, pastured poultry and eggs. There are no known primal societies that are/were vegan or vegetarian.
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