Is auto immune thyroiditis hashimotos. Just because my consultant told me off for using the word .what's in a name I thought

[poppppy]

Hi everyone ,

This is very trivial .i am mostly curious .and also

I am confused .nothing new there for me.

I was diagnosed hypothyroid 8 years ago .and then from further tests told I was hashimotos.

This further diagnosis of hashimotos stemmed from ;

High tpo antibodies -greater than 3000

An ultra sound of thyroid showing giraffe like markings to a shrunken thyroid .

On seeing the consultant she seemed to go out of her way to discuss that hashimotos was not what I had.that It is different than auto immune thyroiditis

She said there had to be protein in the thyroid or white cells or something.

I know the medication is the same so my question is trivial . Although for dietary and exercise protocols to improve my health it could be relevant .

It's just every where I look for information .It seems ultra sound results as above or just abnormally elevated antibodies is hashimotos .

Thank you everyone

Poppy

[bluebug]

Hashimotos is a form of autoimmune thyroid disease. Unfortunately your question isn't that clear in why your specialist said you didn't have it probably because your thyroid has been or is nearly completely destroyed, and/or they haven't biopsied your thyroid. Added to that most endos aren't thyroid specialists so frequently come out with nonsense.

There is not one simple exercise or simple dietary protocol people can give you.

What you need to do is get vitamins and minerals - iron (ferritin & haemoglobin), vitamin B12, folate and vitamin D - tested then start a new thread with the results and ranges. It is also worth putting in your latest thyroid hormone results and ranges. Plus stating what other drugs you are on. Then you will get detailed advice.

There are things people with Hashimotos are told to do on here to improve their gut bacteria so they absorb nutrients better and slow down the rate at which their thyroid is being attacked by the body. This includes taking 200mcg of selenium per day, becoming gluten free and making food from scratch. The latter means instead of say eating gluten free pizza from a supermarket or takeaway place you would make your own from scratch. Unfortunately when gluten is removed from food other fillers including sugar are used.

Some people also have to become dairy free while others have to drastically decrease the amount of carbohydrates particularly sugars they eat. This is due to the fact that once you have one autoimmune disease you are likely to have or get others.

[poppppy in reply to bluebug]

Hi thank you blue bug .

Lots of advice for me to work on thank you for your time and support.

I am dairy and gluten alcohol and soy free .virtually sugar free .just occurs in some savoury things I can't shake .I am experimenting with grass fed meat but hard to afford. But I know health is most important purchase.

I haven't had a biopsy .

I wish u all the very best in your own health journey .

Poppy

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Here in UK, for some reason medics only call it autoimmune thyroid disease.......and ignore it completely.

[poppppy in reply to SlowDragon]

Slow Dragon thank you for your reply .she seemed almost annoyed. She said we don't use that name .where did I get it from .we just concentrate on your symptoms .saying that she is amazing because she stands firm with prescribing liothyronine

Thank you again and all best wishes for your own good health .

Poppy

[humanbean in reply to poppppy]

we just concentrate on your symptoms

I really, really wish that was true. Most doctors ignore symptoms and concentrate on blood test results. If the numbers are in range and the patient still complains about symptoms then they are told that they are mentally ill.

[poppppy in reply to humanbean]

Thank you human bean .to be very fair again the consultant I am under let my levels run high because I felt well . She is amazing

[Thalia56]

The more common form of autoimmune thyroiditis in Europe is actuallly Ord's disease, but due, I suspect, to the prevalance of US-based sites on the English-speaking web, most of the discussion out there seems to revolve around Hashimoto's.

Hashimoto's is autoimmune hypothyroidism with goitre, while Ord's is autoimmune hypothyroidism with thyroid atrophy. In my (distinctly non-medical) opinion, that would seem to fit with your antibodies and shrunken thryoid results.

That said, I'm not sure why your consultant made such an issue out of it when she could have spent that time rather more helpfully!

[poppppy in reply to Thalia56]

Impala thank you so much for that . I will look this up .

Can I ask do u know if there are any treatment protocols for ord s that differ from hashimotos .

As in dietary changes exercise medication etc .books to follow etc

Cause it's all about the treatment as u know .

I wish u all the very best in your health journey.

Poppy

[Thalia56 in reply to poppppy]

Thanks for the good wishes, Poppy, and I wish you the same. I've just seen your endo prescribes T3, so it sounds as if she's worth the minor confusion caused by this exchange.

As far as I know, and I have done a couple of Google searches over the years but not delved into it deeply, there is no difference in treatment / exercise / diet protocols between Hashimoto's and Ord's. If you find out differently, I'd love to know!

Wishing you good health.

[poppppy in reply to Thalia56]

Thank you Impala .

I know . I feel terrible now complaining about my consultant .I think I just get scared. Because she seems so on the side of thyroid sufferers . That when she says something to the opposite .I think. Oh no the body snatchers from some organisation have got her as well

It must be so hard for them to stay firm to their beliefs. And yes I usually praise her and want to buy her a gift but think it's considered bribery

Poppy

[helvella in reply to poppppy]

poppppy,

Last time I looked, the term Ord's was almost unused in recent times.

Some people insist that if you have had no goitre, you don't have Hashimoto's. Others suggest that the goitre phase can be brief and mild and therefore easily missed.

Some suggest it is the genetic background of many in north-eastern Europe that explains why some don't get the goitre phase.

[Raucous]

If you have an Endo that prescribes T3 hang on to her regardless of anything I'd say! Interesting discussion because I have elevated Tgb antibodies and absolutely no diagnosis beyond Hypothyroidism - GP not interested, no referal to Endo, no ultrasound of thyroid, but I'm going to look up Ord's.

[poppppy in reply to Raucous]

I am so sorry to hear your gp is not interested .only one of mine was and I knew I was lucky with that and then first consultant destroyed that .but gp ignored his advice and with our evidence from bloods put me back on liothyronine. And another gp who said he didn't believe in liothyronine told me a consultant who does .

And yes I am very lucky that I am under her

Poppy

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Raucous]

They only consider TPO antibodies are relevant

I think because TG antibodies can be due to other disease. Eg RA and urticaria

[poppppy in reply to SlowDragon]

Hi slow Dragon. It is my t p o antibodies that are deranged. Or where u talking generally sorry

Poppy

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to poppppy]

I was replying to Raucous

Lots of us have High TPO and TG

But if just high TG then medics reluctant to diagnose

[Raucous in reply to SlowDragon]

It's strange isn't it because the Tg antibodies must be caused by something and even it is a different disease wouldn't be helpful to find out (?) but they just dismiss it.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Raucous]

emedicine.medscape.com/arti...

"Antithyroglobulin is not normally found in the blood stream. However, 10-20% of healthy individuals have detectable antithyroglobulin levels."

The 3 types of thyroid autoantigens that generate antibodies in autoimmune thyroid disease (Graves disease or Hashimoto thyroiditis) are thyroglobulin, thyroid microsomal antigen, and the thyrotropin receptor.

Conditions associated with thyroglobulin antibody include Hashimoto thyroiditis, Graves disease, myxedema, adenomatous hyperplasia, thyroid carcinoma, rheumatoid arthritis (RA), chronic urticaria, systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE), autoimmune hemolytic anemia, Sjögren syndrome, and type 1 diabetes. Serum antibodies to thyroglobulin are present in 10-20% of healthy individuals. Pregnant women and family members of those with a history of autoimmune thyroiditis can also have positive thyroglobulin antibody.

The autoantigen thyroglobulin is an iodine-containing glycoprotein of high molecular weight that is secreted into the colloid of follicle cells of the thyroid gland. Thyroglobulin, a prohormone, contains the iodinated tyrosine moieties that form the active hormones thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3) after combining with the amino acid tyrosine. Thyroid hormones are essential for most metabolic process in the human body. Healthy individuals may have values of up to 30 ng/mL (45 pmol/L).

Thyroglobulin is specific to the thyroid follicle. Its presence in a tissue biopsy sample provides proof of thyroid origin. In addition, testing for thyroglobulin is of great importance regarding metastatic, recurrent, or residual disease in patients with a previous diagnosis of differentiated thyroid cancer. [1]

Up to 10% of the general population and 20% of individuals with differentiated thyroid cancer have detectable antithyroglobulin antibodies, which represents a challenge because thyroglobulin values obtained in the presence of antithyroglobulin antibodies may not be clinically reliable. Hence, most laboratories do not release results for thyroglobulin in the presence of antithyroglobulin antibodies.

[helvella in reply to SlowDragon]

Surprised to see the term "thyroid microsomal antigen" these days - since it was identified as thyroid peroxidase the old microsomal term has all but disappeared. Makes me wonder how old the text of that document is?

The discovery of antibodies to the thyroid microsomal antigen followed in 1964, a substance later recognized as thyroid peroxidase (TPO).

sciencedirect.com/science/a...

[Raucous]

Wow Thanks SlowDragon very comprehensive - I guess my mother & I must be in the small percentage then as we both have elevated AntiTgb antibodies (mine 198 iu/ml, mum's 250 iu/ml when the range is less than 115). We are both hypothyroid but have not had thyroid cancer or goiters or RA, but it makes me wonder if we should have any other tests done like Lupus or just carry on treating like Hashimoto's....

There are days when I wish the doctor who said 'just take this pill for the rest of your life and you'll be fine" was right!