Is it T4 that makes us hotter or T3 after its been converted.

[Gillybean1]

Forgive me if ive already asked this question...foggy.

best wishess G.

[greygoose]

T4 doesn't do anything much, it's a storage hormone. T3 is the active hormone and causes symptoms when it's low.

[Gillybean1 in reply to greygoose]

Hi Greygoose, thank you for your reply. So it could make us hot if too little or too much ?

I am about to try my first addition of T3 to my NDT in the hope that it might ease these rotten gut flare up. All bloods are right side of recommended range except ferritin (way too low) which is tricky to improve with an inflammed gut.

Hope you are doing well? every best wish G.

[greygoose in reply to Gillybean1]

It could. But it won't necessarily.

What else are you doing for your gut flare ups? Are you gluten free? Are you increasing your stomach acid?

Just because your other results are 'right side of recommended range' doesn't mean they're optimal. When did you last post any? Have your other nutrients been tested?

I've got a bit of an infection right now, so not feeling brilliant. Ho hum. Thank you for asking.

[Gillybean1 in reply to greygoose]

Hello Greygoose, my apologies for late response, internet failure 4 days, cant believe how reliant ive become !

Sorry to hear you have an infection, hopefully you will bounce back soon to your usual razor sharp wit, knowledge and sparkle before too long........still grin to myself about the 'fat, balding' endo quip.

Have you tried all the usual anti bacterial/ anti flamm to speed things up? Upper body- ginger, bromelain (pineapple,papaya) garlic, sage, aloe vera, lower body- the miraculous tincture of Buchu, and general Vit C 1000mg , zinc picolinate.

Re my gut flare ups, yes GF, DF, soya free, grain free, tap water free,all done one at a time, taking pro b's, kids digestive plant enzymes (cant tolerate others) ACES, B's, B12,Vit D, Omegas, Coq10, Ca/Mg, Zinc, and iron on a good gut day.

Ive looked at FODMAPS too, there are some relevant but not the trigger i feel.

TSH 0.03 (0.27-4.20) FT4 18.4 (12.00-22.00) FT3 5.8 (3.10-6.80) RT3 0.48 (0.14- 0.54) am on 1 1/4grains NDT Do you think RT3 is high?

In Feb B12 1058 (190-660) Folate 20 (5.00-10.00) Ferritin 33 (13.00-150.00) Vit D 115 (75-200)

I see on the floor levels of iron as a big issue, i really struggle with iron Supps , Floradix currently, plant based so very very slow and still gives alot of pain. All gut investigations closed as apparently im depressed.......that old chestnut ha ha, i think, in fact i know i was pretty rude back to the gut Prof who said that to me and told him he was 'reflecting'...his own problem. When i said you dont actually know what the problem is do you ? he replied "no", so we parted ways. Then he wrote a snidy letter back to my GP saying that he couldnt believe a 'homeopathic' amount of thyroid meds could have allowed me to walk into clinic that day unaided or improved my gut significantly.

One thing i can thank him for was telling me i would never get better and never improve ,that this was my life now ,so get on with it. That is an exact quote, but my reason to really really prove such a dinosaur wrong.

I wish you all the very best GG, we have very hot weather here in the UK today, lovely bright blue skies,hope you have too, G.

[greygoose in reply to Gillybean1]

Wow! How did you stop yourself smashing him in the face?!? What a terrible man, and what a rotten doctor. Has he forgotten he's supposed to be making people feel better, not worse?

Depressed is what they all fall back on when they have no idea what's wrong. It doesn't actually mean they really believe we are depressed, I don't think.

So, your T3. No, I don't think it's high. I think it could be higher. You might have some sort of hormone resistance, but, whatever, you need the dose you need to make you well. And, if this dose isn't making you well, try increasing it, and see how you feel. You can always go back down again, no harm done.

Why are you taking calcium? That's a very bad thing to take. If your calcium is low, the vit D3 will increase absorption of calcium from food. So, you need vit K2 to make sure it goes to the bones and teeth, and not the tissues. But, I would consider coming off the calcium, if I were you.

But, I agree the iron is a very big problem. Do you take vit c with it?

I'm not feeling very much better, I'm afraid. Very tired, with a headache - and I never get headaches!!! Still coughing, which is hurting my ribs and upsetting my stomach - plus swallowing copious amounts of air when I cough! I always take vit C and zinc, but I haven't been taking the other things. I did try the bromelain, but didn't find it helped much. What I do take is Sambucol. I find that brilliant stuff! I would probably be a lot worse at the moment if I weren't taking that.

[Gillybean1 in reply to greygoose]

Probably because i was too weak at the time......hee hee, but seriously, i think telling my GP who is hugely supporting,and quietly influential has done the trick,she told me she flagged him up in the practice as 'never send patient to again' Professor or not. The old ripple effect......marvellous.

So if you think the Reverse T3 level is ok, then i can either add a bit more NDT or just add some T3 and see. My instinct tells me to go for the T3, as i understand it also provides the mucous to the oesophagus,assists cholecsystokinin production to aid the oddi spincter to squeeze the gallbladder to empty fully, and assists the peristalsis of the large colon; all of which i have symptoms that relate.

So yes, maybe i do have some 'resistance' issues.

The calcium was for osteopena, which i take 50/50 with magnesium. Ive just got some Vit K to help the D. I will give that ago, drop the Ca, increase the Mg and add Vit K.

Re your infection, if your ok with fresh sage, take 1/2 dozen leaves, bruise and bash the leaves in a mug, add boiling water, steep for 10mins and drink, you can add honey (manuka if poss or local honey from your nearest area) if you hate the taste. Sage is highly antibacterial, so you can swallow bits too if you want, and repeat 3 times a day.

If you hate sage, try cloves, same anti bacterial qualities, steep about 10 in a mug. It maybe trying something different might shift it. Im sure you know about staying away from the sticky foods like dairy for a week or so and to double up your water for a few days. I agree Sambucol is just fantastic.

One more, really old fashioned, steam inhalation, 10drops of essential oil of Benzoin (Friars Balsam to us as kids!) into a bowl of boiling water,put a towel over your head and lean over breathing it all in,might ease the coughing thats so draining for you.

Rest well, the best tonic. Thank you for all your advise, i feel less afraid.

G.

[greygoose in reply to Gillybean1]

Oh! Sorry! Your rT3! I misread that.

Hmm... what to say... I personally think that unless rT3 is massively high, it's irrelevant. I think a lot of people make too much of a song and dance about what is a perfectly normal process. I also think the question of rT3 is incredibly complicated, and not many people really understand what it signifies - especially not doctors. I think that, at that level, you should ignore it.

And I think you should go with your gut instinct. If you think the T3 is the right thing to increase, increase it. You do have plenty of T4, it's rather high in range for someone on T3.

As for osteopenia... is that really a thing? Some doctors don't think it is, just a way for Big Pharma to sell more drugs. Your bones are obviously going to get thinner as you age - especially with the present obsession for calcium! It's very rare for someone in developed countries to be calcium deficient. However, magnesium and zinc deficient... most people are. Bones need zinc, too. And vit A.

I loathe sage! lol I don't think I could drink that. Not too keen on cloves, either. However... they would go down very well in some hot wine. With some cinnamon, and lemon and orange! Yum! I might try that. Thank you for the idea.

I've never had Friar's Balsam. My mother was more of a Vick person, and it sort of rubbed off. But, my brain is more than a bit fuddled at the moment, and I didn't think of it. I might have a go tomorrow.

Thank you for all your advice, too!

[Gillybean1 in reply to greygoose]

The hot toddy idea would be very effective for clearing things, i hope you feel more comfortable soon.

The 'osteopena' just proved that i had been malabsorbing for sometime, but i just couldnt get heard. I had to strongly insist for a Dexa scan (as this is not available till after menopause on the NHS) because a nurse noted i was 2" shorter in 2 years. That was the only way i finally got listened to for proof of a gut problem.

Yes you are right about Big Pharma, my switched on GP said well of course i have to let you know Fosimax (think thats how you spell it) is available..... i just looked at her, her face said it all..........I had already read about this cement that sticks your bones together so that if you fall you still break, but you dont shatter like a chocolate maltezer.......but is sold as a cure all......and the best bit, it is one of the biggest/worst irritants to the stomach bag.....mad eh as the very people with osteoporosis surely have gut issues primarily. Hence the GP was very reluctant.

I agree with you about the Mg and Zc deficiency being rife.

Ahh Vick, beloved memories, still around with something extra added to it, but still predominantly Eucalyptus.

Every best wish, and thank you again G.

[greygoose in reply to Gillybean1]

Thank you for your good wishes. Today, I can actually move without coughing my lungs up - prior to that, I couldn't even turn over in bed! And, I can take a deep breath again without risk. So, hopefully, I'm on the mend. I'm still very tired, and foul tempered, from lack of sleep, but... lol

[Gillybean1 in reply to greygoose]

Well i hate to tell you this but hot wine,oranges, and cinnamon are compulsory for the next 2weeks......medicinal of course !

Very glad to hear 'the turn' has arrived, im sure once you are able to move about without discomfort your body will move the rest of the infection out for good. Lungs are quite tricky, such a big organ, not suprising you are tired....are bodies know best.

Sleep well, kind regards G.

[greygoose in reply to Gillybean1]

Thank you, GB. I'm feeling much better this evening. Been out and about all day, getting things done, and am now ready for a relaxing evening and - hopefully - a good night's sleep. I've hardly coughed at all, today. But, of course, it's different lying down...

[Gillybean1 in reply to greygoose]

Hiya, im so pleased , you sound like you again...when we can, the getting up,out and moving literally does shift things.

Sometimes sticking a couple of books under the feet at the head end of our beds for a week or so whilst the lying down cough prevails can help, slightly better on the neck than the good old pile of pillows trick.... and still plenty of water.

All the very very best G.

[greygoose in reply to Gillybean1]

Thank you, Gillybean. All gone now! Actually, I have one of those wedge shaped pillows that I put under the mattress at the head end. It's priceless! Wouldn't be without it.

[Gillybean1 in reply to greygoose]

all the very best G.

[Cariad-y-Mor in reply to greygoose]

Sorry to hear /read that you are unwell greygoose . Look after yourself - like you often tell others to do. Hope you get well real soon.

[greygoose in reply to Cariad-y-Mor]

Thank you bernie, that's sweet. I am feeling much better today. Just hope my brain starts functioning again soon! lol

[Cariad-y-Mor in reply to greygoose]

So glad you feeling better. ( Somehow I cannot imagine your brain ever not working! Do take care. 🌻🌻🌻🌻

[greygoose in reply to Cariad-y-Mor]

Thank you, that's so kind. I'm feeling much better today.

[humanbean in reply to Gillybean1]

Then he wrote a snidy letter back to my GP saying that he couldnt believe a 'homeopathic' amount of thyroid meds could have allowed me to walk into clinic that day unaided or improved my gut significantly.

You are on 1.25 grains of NDT. This equates to approximately 81mcg levo. I've seen lots of people on 75mcg or 100mcg levo and doctors think this is a perfectly sensible dose, so what is his problem with 1.25 grains of NDT? My mother was hypothyroid and was taking 75mcg levo from day one, and kept the same dose for about 30 years!

[Gillybean1 in reply to humanbean]

Hello Humanbean, Yes its an odd one, as a Gastro Prof he said there would not be an Endocrinologist the length and breadth of the UK who would approve me taking thyroid meds with a 4.2 TSH whatever my symptoms or quality of life. I think it was all ego, he didnt know what to do with me, he ran all the tests related to gastric problems and when i asked if i could possibly be one of those people who can convert T3 but not utilise it properly on a cell level,hence the complexities of my gut problems, he said yes it was possible but there was no test to prove it, and in the next breath he told me i was depressed, and take these.....i declined saying i was not depressed, and that if i was would take the pills. His response was to shuffle his papers, got up abruptly, pulled my arm and said get up and go ive finished with you. He was fuming.

When i walked unaided for the first time into his clinic some months later after being on NDT just a few weeks, he was stunned, and when i told him the only thing that had changed things was thyroid meds, he just sneered in total disbelief, and later i was copied his letter and comments from my GP.

It would have been really wonderfull if he had said, well thats fantastic, i will take a note because it might be of help to someone else......... well i can dream a little cant i ?

I still get the shivers thinking about him and from watching several other patients coming out from his consultation room crying, young old,male female not because of their diagnosis' but because of how they were spoken to, and yes i did make a complaint via my GP.

Thank you for your comment on your mothers medicine,a lovely long life.

Every best wish G.

[humanbean in reply to Gillybean1]

He sounds absolutely vile. I hope you don't have to see him again.

What is it with doctors and anti-depressants? I really think they are just a cheap and simple way for them to shift the blame for being ill on to the patient and avoiding having to make a proper diagnosis.

Once I learned a bit about the thyroid I always wondered if my mother was under-medicated to be honest, but she always insisted she was fine, so who was I to argue? She lived to be 84 and kept her marbles right to the end.

[Gillybean1 in reply to humanbean]

I think you are right,cheap fix,paperwork looks tidy,stats in order.

What scares me is there have been many many days when i have been too weak too ill to stand up for myself. Im not confrontational but i despise dishonesty. If you dont know whats wrong with me, then why not say so. What about all those people that cant speak up for themselves or have no knowledge about the human body.......

Im sure the gut Prof is a genius in his field and with his wealth of information helped many people, but bed side manner and compassion NONE.

Rest assured your Mum did well, 30 years on meds that helped her thyroid is wonderful news, and probably how she kept her marbles.

Every best wish,and thank you for sharing G.

[LAHs]

Yep, T3

[Gillybean1 in reply to LAHs]

Many thanks LAHs, its all coming back to me, all the best G.