Could under treated Thyroid cause acute pain all over the body?

[Everdean]

If so would taking prednisolone give any relief for that? Or wouldn't it make any difference to it?

I am just trying to work out what is causing my pain as the Dr's don't seem interested.

Thank you for any answers

[HEA72]

Yes it can be that you're medication isn't sufficient, because if we use more energy than we have available we get a build up of lactic acid in the muscles giving the pain. I find taking a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda (not baking powder) in a glass of water at bedtime helps reduce the acidity and the pain with it. In the meantime your thyroid medication dose or type sounds like it needs looking at. It can also help to take some magnesium citrate around 250-500mg to support mitochondrial function. Take this with breakfast.

[Everdean in reply to HEA72]

Thank you HEA72 I will try that.

[HEA72 in reply to Everdean]

P.S. an epsom salt (mag sulphate) bath can help too give some temporary relief. The warm water soothes and the magnesium gets absorbed transdermally. Add a cupful to the bath, swish it around to disolve it and lay the bath for a minum of 20 minutes. Epsom salts can bought online or from the chemist.

[shaws Administrator]

You most probably need an increase in your medication. We often need a change of dose. If you've had a blood test recently (or GPs reduced your dose) get a copy of your results with the ranges and post them. If not get a new blood test and ask for a Full Thyroid Function Test (that's more than TSH and T4). Don't take levo on the morning of the blood test, take it after and have the test as early as possible as TSH is highest then.

[Everdean]

Thank you Shaws I will do that, but I also need to know if prednisolone would make any difference to that pain. I know when I am on it helps so does that mean there is another cause for the pain?

[Clutter]

Everdean, yes it can, which is why so many people are *diagnosed* with fibromyalgia when undiagnosed and undertreated. Have you had a thyroid test since switching to NDT? If you are undermedicated a dose increase should help. It may be better to optimise your thyroid levels before trying prednisolone.

[Everdean in reply to Clutter]

Thanks Clutter but I have already tried Pred. and it makes a big difference so I'm wondering if something else is causing the pain.

[faith63 in reply to Everdean]

Hypothyroidism causes pain and inflammation, so yes pred helps the pain by taking down inflammation, it does not mean that you need pred. It is not safe and will suppress your Cortisol levels, which are probably low anyway, from being undertreated on Thyroid meds.

[Everdean in reply to faith63]

That is very helpful faith63. That makes sense. That is what I needed to hear.

Thank you

[Spareribs]

and optimise levels of iron, ferritin, folate & B12 and definitely Vit D too - taking T-hormone & boosting up metabolism needs more fuel in the way of vital nutrients, if that makes sense...

[Everdean in reply to Spareribs]

Yes it makes sense but I am supplementing all those things. Sparerib.

[Spareribs in reply to Everdean]

Glad to hear that, always worth checking...

my various aches/pains were labelled CFS etc. when it was just low Vit D - a secosteroid - I'd forgotten what that meant so here's a link...

mpkb.org/home/pathogenesis/...

(luckily I don't supplement summer time!) J

[Everdean in reply to Spareribs]

That is really interesting Sparerib Thanks.

[Poshpenny]

Yes, but it could be various other things too. Eg, vitamin D, gluten, and I'm sure there are others as well. There is so much trial and error in sorting this whole sorry mess out, but it is worth it in the end!

[Everdean in reply to Poshpenny]

I have been gluten free for years and Vit D ok.

I am wondering if I have another auto immune issue.

[Spareribs in reply to Everdean]

Have you had TPO & TG antibodies tested?

[Everdean in reply to Spareribs]

Yes they did that ages ago and because I have auto immune coeliac, and hashimoto, the Dr said he wouldn't bother with that test again. However when I saw a Rheumatologist about a year ago he said he thought I had another AID but couldn't say which one!! Should I ask for those again?

Thanks for your input

[Spareribs in reply to Everdean]

All over pain is a horrid thing to experience - so worth checking everything, given a choice I much prefer to be tired, foggy & just miserable - that could be protective!

I have noted that Rheumys tend to do thorough testing - it may be worth asking what other AIDs tend to be on the menu - sorry struggling for words at the mo! Not scaremongering but I often see lupus or hyper-mobility pop up - I have a niece with the former and DIL with latter - hence noticing. J

[Everdean in reply to Spareribs]

That is what I was wondering Sparerib.Thanks.

[faith63 in reply to Everdean]

Hashimotos can cause pain that thyroid meds don't help. What thyroid meds are you on? Dr. Lowe treated his patients with thyroid meds that contained t3 or t3 only, in part, to relieve their pain.

[Everdean in reply to faith63]

I was prescribed T3 but after a while I had what I thought was a bad auto immune attack after a visit with my son in London for the weekend. I asked for blood tests and they said thyroid was fine but when I actually read them T3 was low, so I increased them slowly and still felt ill so now I am trying Nature-thyroid.

[faith63 in reply to Everdean]

You seem like someone who would do well on t3 only. I bet you don't convert your t4 meds well. Dr. Lowe cured all his Fibromyalgia patients with t3 in part. He first tried them on ndt and if at 4 grs they were not improved, or showing hyper symptoms, he switched them to t3. Please look for Dr. Lowe info. Shaws, an administrator here, has all the links.

[Everdean in reply to faith63]

Thank you faith63,but I was on T3 for about a year and still didn't feel well. I tried increasing but sometimes felt worse. I suppose I could try adding some T3 to the NDT and see what happens.

[helbell]

Hi Everdean, I suffer with chronic pain too. It has been eased by thyroid hormone replacement but appears again when things go a bit off. Can you describe your pain? Do yo find it is worse after exertion?

[Everdean in reply to helbell]

It is excruciating. Hellbell. Even the slightest finger movement . Going up stairs I have to stop once or twice for the pain in my legs and arms. It makes me out of breath too. When I get to the top of the stairs I have to stop while the pain ,starting at the feet reverberates through to the top of my body and it takes my breath away till I can move again. Yes It is worse after exertion especially the day after. Is that the same for you?

[helbell in reply to Everdean]

Yes the day after, usually. Sometimes next day. Sometimes I can take a reasonable amount of activity, and other times, I can barely move after resting. I used to get the pain everywhere including just gently clenching my fingers ...like they felt hot, bruised and inflamed but looked normal.. I would describe my worst pain as feeling like I have been thoroughly kicked all over my bones and muscles. I also get roaming pain, literally moves around my body. My joint and muscle pain also seems connected to burning, stinging and stabbing pains. But sometimes all those things just come alone. There is a significant neuro element in Hashi Hypo. I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think I am finding the stiff-been-kicked pain is worse when my body temp is low. Or maybe that's stating the obvious. I get muscle contractions... muscles won't relax. I also crash with fatigue if I push it. And once I have pushed it that far, I know I am in for a bad pain session. Blood sugar levels are critical and I am having difficulty managing mine. Although staying right off sugar is helping. Sugar/glycemic issues have been strongly linked to pain and fatigue syndromes what ever the perpetuate-rs but often hypothyroidism. Pain can be connected to a range of autoimmune and neuro disorders as well as deficiency. Hyperthyroidism can cause pain. I have a Hash friend who oscillates between hyper and hypo and pain is a prominent feature during these attacks. She did get relief from T3 for a while but struggled with added weight gain. We're all different. Do you have any spine or neck issues?

I have avoided seeing a rheaumy because it seems, so far, that my pain symptoms are tied up with adequate thyroid levels. Stress will give me a nasty flare up of pain and inflammation and I just try to ride it out to the other side before attacking the hormone dose..try to. Stress will block conversion as you probably know. I can't say what your pain is or what will alleviate but my guts go with the others in guessing not enough thyroid hormone is reaching your tissues. I manage my pain with diet and lifestyle, and pacing, and supplements ...and it's all rather imperfect but I do know the blessed relief when I get it right. My pain is worse at rest and the daytime is more about fatigue and vertigo. I have myofacial pain too. The summer is best for me so I suspect a D issue in there somewhere..plus mitochondria don't thrive so well in the dark.

Are you trying corticosteroids to tackle inflammation and or autoimmune flare? Have you tried other pain medications? I would choose to see a rheumy for another work up to eliminate other pain causing disorders as suggested above, as well as post full thyroid panel plus antibody results here. Do you know your Ferritin and D, and B12?

I would really like to see and sub group on thyroid hormone disorders and pain. It's so frustrating having sensations that are difficult to describe but sometimes someone else expresses just what I feel.

Your pain is worse than mine, my dear, so I wish you well and please let us know how you get on.

[Everdean in reply to helbell]

Thank you So much Hellbell.

I felt very emotional reading your post. You really suffer.

I wish there was an easy solution to your problems.

I have tried Pred, firstly because I have had some adrenal tests(privately) and they came back low. the Pred definitely helps me but don't want to take it if it's not what I need. So only have it if I'm desperate.

I don't know about my spine or neck though sometimes I feel like I am being pushed down from the neck and shoulders and it's exhausting. I have osteoporosis so don't know if it's that. Yes I find it hard to describe and it is helpful to hear others describe their pain and then we can relate to it.

Thank you for your interest in me. I will try and get some blood results to post.

XX

[helbell in reply to Everdean]

This whole thing is such an emotional roller coaster as well as disabling. My wish is that those who specialize in our area suffer full blown symptoms for one month.....then allowed to return to normal status.

Feeling pushed down from neck and shoulders might be simply fatigue arising from hypothyroidism or adrenal fatigue. I don't know very much about osteoporosis apart from we are more susceptible when out thyroid hormones are out of range for any length of time. I think you said your's are fatigued. You are absolutely exhausted by the sound of it. It's such a complex thing to address and we need x thousands of pounds to chuck at close monitoring, analysis and treatment trials. The more I read, the less I know. One thing that is clear is hypothyroidism and other metabolic disorders can cause features similar to a mitochondrial citopathy, and mitochondrial impairment is found in our disorder/s. I can understand why many do not wish to research more deeply. Oftentimes makes me feel like giving up! Check out Dr Sarah Myhill's site for things that relate to energy and pain disorders. Lots of other specialists will give this info too but she also stresses the damage caused by continuing to push fatigued and painful muscles alongside protocols to manage it. There is a difference between exercising to get the metabolism going and pulling on energy before our bodies can replace it, as referred by HEZ2. I'm going to try the bicarb cocktail as I am now thinking my burning pains might also be related to lactic acidosis which also features in this whole pot. It might be worth giving yourself a really tight pacing schedule. One thing I have gleaned is that Q10 comes up over as a major supplement for mitochondrial function. Sounds like you are really on top of diet , but just in case you have not tried cutting out sugar and fast carbs...gluten-free bakes are full of fast carbs... will help, or at least not further hinder the concomitant struggle we have with glucose metabolism. There isn't any absolute answer and you need professional help to absolutely rule out other causes. The other tragedy is that if nothing obvious turns up it is often seen as not practical or cost effective to investigate hard-to-diagnose metabolic myopathy. Some basic info below and the first link is well worth a read if you can't be doing with pouring over the pc for a long time. What Myhill advocates for muscle pain management will apply to us, and she is an MD so I assume she will know just as much if not more than my GP.. drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/CFS_-_T...

Others...

nature.com/nrendo/journal/v...

stopthethyroidmadness.com/f...

thyroid-info.com/articles/m...

thyroid.about.com/cs/fibrom...

The third link, from Mary Shomon is an easy to access list of FMS symptoms. FMS is commonly linked with thyroid disorders.

More research is pointing to the extreme symptoms classified in FMS or CFS AS a manifestation of hypothyroidism or hypothyroidism as a major perpetuating factor - there is plenty of research posted on Thyroid UK from the pioneer John Lowe. thyroidscience.com/cases/lo...

Pain does not come high in the searches yet so many of us have chronic pain and exercise intolerance. I know it's bad when I can't even chew. xx

[Everdean in reply to helbell]

Thank you helbell.

All good information. I will read it all.

Take Care of yourself.

x

[helbell in reply to Everdean]

Ah..I have just edited, so I hope you caught the Myhill link. You too xx

[Everdean in reply to helbell]

Yes Thank you x

[helbell in reply to Everdean]

keep an eye on potassium levels too

[Everdean in reply to helbell]

What do you mean about potassium levels hellbell?

[helbell in reply to Everdean]

stopthethyroidmadness.com/p...

[Everdean in reply to helbell]

Thank you hellbell. I will investigate this.

[faith63]

A below range ft3 and low iron can cause pain. Did you raise your t3 yet?

[Everdean in reply to faith63]

Faith63 I am trying to . ( Note above comment)

Ty

[siskin]

Polyyalgia rheumatica (PMR) has many of the symptoms you describe , it is also an AID, as is RA.

An indicator of PMR and RA (now being known as RD)are blood tests ESR & CRP which are inflammatory markers.

Prednisolone is given orally for PMR and if you respond well it is often indicative of the disease.

I would ask your rheumatologist to investigate further, I feel you need to see a rheumatology consultant.

I am hypothyroid with RD and PMR and it is very difficult to differentiate between all the different aches and pains.

There are websites for both these diseases under the Healthunlocked umbrella.

Regards and all the best siskin.

[Everdean in reply to siskin]

Thank you siskin I appreciate your reply