You won't probably understand this either way, much less if you don't know what is hyperbolic discounting: lesswrong.com/posts/9o3QBg2...
I suffer from ultimate bedtime procrastination!!! You have to understand I Am soooooooo bored out of my mind: I defer going to sleep even 500 times! Even if I fix my sleep schedule - the next time I Am soooo bored (which is all the time, but some time it is even more insufferable)!!! I Am going to sleep back between 3-8AM...
I have problem maintaining sleep schedule between 22-23PM!!! I get always soooo bored (also the most) before sleep!!! You don't understand: I have 0 tolerance for boredom! Even as a kid, before I had existential boredom: I couldn't do homeworks even 5 minutes and I got strong pain and I was drawing on my mother's arm!!!
Besides I Am probably most bored person in the world, even more than prisoners in max. for sure!!! And world itself is a type of a prison! I Am prisoner in space-time!!! Because I suffer from "hyperbolic discounting" I continuously procrastinate to seek dopamine, instead of doing work and it doesn't get better even after 10 minutes...
I searched many articles and nothing really helps, or is useful to my situation!!! While I have understanding behind many of these psychological problems, they have more complicated underlying causes, some of which are not possible to solve!!! Or right now...
I Am also bored whole day, because I stuck with watching TV shows and I can't do anything else, because pain. I can read only 5-15 minutes at once max. Not even that much sometimes... And I have brutal headaches and blurred vision so I can't really read in bed and my spine starts to hurt after like 3 minutes...
And audiobooks are boring, I can't make myself to listen them... I take sleeping pills in small amount, sometimes not now, which is good. Other things like melatonin didn't work well and they require to consult your GD, but they all don't do anything at all - I tried and have usually side effects and what not...
It is already soo painful that I can't even feel anything almost! But now boredom started resurfacing again... And I Am afraid that I will procrastinate again (not emotionally) rather rational concern ATM. But I usually get stressed about it, which is bad ofc...
It is catch 22, for I would be able to do anything: I would have to be less bored, but precisely because I Am not healthy I can't do anything! Therefore it is a vicious cycle, the more I am more and more bored the more I Am unhealthy!!!
I absolutely don't know what to do!!! Main problem is boredom! I Am so ultimately bored, I procrastinate all the time! It is so painful, that I would give anything for another 1 molecule of dopamine, so I procrastinate infinitely... B O R E D O M is just too strong, I don't know how to overcome it!!!
I suffer from:
- GAD
- extreme chronic stress + non removable stressors
- MDD/anhedonia (even for some reason I Am less depressed now, it would take year to explain)...
- chronic pain/fatigue (I can go only 0.5-1km on a walk)...
- chronic boredom/existential boredom
- extreme inhumane procrastination!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- revenge/bedtime procrastination
- hyperbolic discounting
- executive disfunctions
- SPD (maybe) e.g. I always hated tags and I have problem with competing stimuli all the time: I see instantly from every word another 20 words and so on...
- insomnia (probably from all causes)
above included - 30 mental disorders no joke (I Am gifted so)...
Written by
empleat
To view profiles and participate in discussions please or .
Your symptoms look very much to me like you have a dopamine issue and good odds you have some level of ADHD or at least some of the genetic triggers for it. ADHD is a very "muddy" disorder that can cause symptoms consistent with many other disorders leading to numerous diagnoses when much of it may point back to ADHD itself. I've been diagnosed as all sorts of things from 16 or 17 to 36 years old before a psychiatrist realized it could all be attributed to ADHD and maybe some c-ptsd that was partially due to dealing with undiagnosed ADHD during my childhood. ADHD also tends to trigger many comorbid disorders and most people with ADHD genetics and neurology develop other psychiatric or physical problems. Dopamine is the main neurotransmitter impacted by ADHD and it effects the immune system and nerve signals to the brain as well as prioritization, organization, being able to concentrate on something you don't want to, and taking actions that you don't feel like doing. Such as managing to go to bed and stay there until asleep when not exhausted enough and bored. Inflammatory and chronic pain disorders are more common with ADHD than in those without. Anxiety can develop from ADHD emotional regulation issues and sensitivity to criticism can be a result of ADHD secondary symptoms such as rejection sensitive dysphoria. Sometimes ADHD emotional issues get mistaken for a separate anxiety disorder when there isn't one and sometimes even if it is a separate disorder it is still improved or eliminated completely by treating the ADHD symptoms without a need for anxiety specific treatment.
*I try to provide a range of links from articles with basic explanations to the very technical for those who prefer easier to read or those who want actual study results and proven medical data. If you find some too dull to read then just reading the first few or last sentences of more technical articles often summarizes their contents enough to provide more info or prove of my summarized statements on something.*
The right level of dopamine is needed to feel like sleeping instead of feeling "blah"or restless at bedtime and also to feel alert and like getting things done instead of constantly "blah"and bored at other times of the day as well. Low or impaired dopamine use also makes it harder to fall asleep and wake up at a normal time (circadian rhythm) and results in reduced restful stages of sleep. Especially rem quantity or an increased risk of sleep disturbances in the middle of the night from being in light sleep instead of going back to deep sleep from rem sleep. Reduced rem sleep can trigger further psychiatric and physical health issues or disorders and increase symptoms of already diagnosed disorders.
When dopamine drops close to bed it normally triggers sleepiness but if it drops too low the body will search for interesting things that help boost dopamine because a certain minimum is needed to trigger the calming receptors dopamine does also have. Most think of dopamine and epinephrine as only stimulants but they are more than that for everyone and even more so for those that are constantly low and benefit from supplemental dosing or medication in order to have enough to trigger the correct receptors and help you to relax and either concentrate on work or go to sleep. If you give someone that is not low in it extra dopamine they become restless and unable to sleep because it creates a high enough quantity to trigger the alerting receptors instead of the calming ones. So you need just the right amount of dopamine to feel good, avoid sensory or pain issues, avoid emotional issues, function well during the day, and sleep properly at night.
jneurosci.org/content/26/41... Most important part from that study: "This dopamine-depleted state is marked by an apparent suppression of SWS and a complete suppression of REM sleep." SWS is slow wave sleep and refers to the deep stages of sleep around rem that are also important for feeling fully rested and not being easily woken throughout the night or waking before you have gotten enough sleep.
With ADHD, Fibro, CFS, and many other neurological or poorly understood chronic pain and inflammatory disorders dopamine has been identified as not maintaining proper levels or not being used properly by at least some parts of the brain. In some cases the same genes impacting the function of dopamine are being found in many people with different disorders that share a similar symptom or appear more often together but not all genetics that contribute to proper dopamine levels and usage have been identified. We cannot yet determine what exactly a single gene by itself will result in or what combo is required for specific symptoms or a recognized disorder to happen. (unable to find dopamine genetics summary article in my disorganized mess of bookmarks so you have to trust me on that one)
If you have even very mild ADHD or similar neurological differences due to only a few genes that impact dopamine usage then dopamine enhancing substances may actually help you sleep instead of acting like stimulants. Even if you do not have severe enough symptoms to be diagnosed as ADHD. Increasing or altering dopamine use in the brain may also reduce symptoms of other disorders and especially, pain, inflammation or sensory sensitivity issues. Adderall greatly reduced my chronic joint pain, instability, and interstitial cystitis(aka painful bladder syndrome). Caffeine may even help calm you down including in the evening and I really wish I had not listened to everyone telling me to avoid it for 15years when it would have improved all my symptoms and sleep until I finally got diagnosed as ADHD.
If you do get diagnosed with ADHD there are meds that can help at bedtime such as clonidine and gaunfacine. It's sometimes possible to get these as off label sleep aids just for general sleep difficulties but you are unlikely to be prescribed them unless you are recognized as having ADHD or a condition related to dopamine because they are not as useful for the average person without such problems. As a very basic explanation they work by reducing dopamine and it's related neurotransmitters that include norepinephrine (adrenaline) in the nervous system where it causes restlessness and shift it to parts of your brain where it helps you make decisions like it's time to go to bed even when you don't feel like it. Then also help you actually fall asleep. Clonidine can even feel sedating despite being listed as a norepinephrine agonist-meaning it should increase the effects of adrenaline. It's just not that simple of med to summarize into a single action. Downside of these is they can greatly lower blood pressure and heart rate. Often the effect diminishes with time if you already have normal blood pressure so any dizziness or other low blood pressure symptoms eventually improve but if you cannot consistently get them refilled it is very bad to be dependent on these meds. Suddenly stopping them causes a very unstable blood pressure and while only 1 dose a day is needed for treating sleep disorders or ADHD it is incredibly uncomfortable and possibly outright dangerous to miss a single dose.
Unfortunately in many countries it is difficult or impossible to get diagnosed and properly treated when you have any dopamine related issues. Researchers and doctors have been concentrating to excess on serotonin until the past couple years when they have come to realize dopamine plays just as much role in many of the same mental and physical issues. People who respond to welbutrin well and SSRI attempts poorly to treat their depression or anxiety are probably looking at a dopamine based issue instead of a serotonin based one. OTC dopamine supplements and mild stimulants like caffeine are sometimes the only option for people who cannot find a knowledgeable doctor that is up to date on the latest research or that fully recognizes ADHD and the broad range of symptoms it can cause that overlap other disorders and cause misdiagnoses.
If we stop looking at dopamine specifically belsomra is another good prescription med that is prescribed more often for general sleep issues but is most useful for helping take that agitated, bored feeling away that makes you want to pace the house instead of lay in bed. It will not give a sedating feeling that will force you to want to sleep. Many do not manage to make use of it because it doesn't force you into going to bed like many other common sleep aids. You can ignore it and stay up but it makes it easier to follow a bedtime routine, less likely to procrastinate or feel insanely bored laying in bed, and seems particularly useful for those issues that make it difficult to go to and stay in bed provided you make some effort to actually get to the bed. Lack of orexin, the substance belsomra blocks, results in narcolepsy but belsomra was not approved at high enough doses to have that strong of effect due to concerns of causing problems with next day activity in some people. Orexin also increases histamines, cortisol levels, and the overall immune response so may have some not yet researched benefits into inflammatory disorders.
Magnesium glycinate is another generic sleep and overall health improving substance that does not require prescription. It tends to help with going to bed on time, waking up on time, and getting quality sleep with improved rem. It can reduce anxiety or restless feelings. It also has numerous physical health benefits both from magnesium and from glycine. If you can't take the combination I'd prioritize glycine supplements over magnesium when it comes to sleep and numerous diagnosed health or psychiatric issues but I'd also try to find another way to add extra magnesium. For mag gly start at 500mg and increase to 2-3grams as you adjust and any GI symptoms subside. Some go as high as 5grams for severe insomnia. Higher dosages have been used by people but have not been studied for safety and are more likely to cause ongoing GI problems of some type. Warning it tastes bad so much swallowing of large capsules or some strongly flavored drinks are needed. I find pomegranate molasses can be diluted with water back into a tart juice that covers up the taste of many things and it's far more shelf stable than fresh juice.
Finally throw out the typical sleep hygiene suggestions of what to do or not do before bed. Obviously it doesn't work for you because your brain gets too bored and desperate for something to do. My brain actually gets increasingly more active if I try to lay quietly in bed before I've fully triggered myself to go to sleep. You do want to follow the typical advice of coming up with a routine or specific things you do before bed to get your brain on the concept of going to bed, stop other activities that help you procrastinate, and improve your ability to sleep. However, instead of winding down and trying to do only calming tasks some people need to exercise before bed. Go for a walk or even run. I used to go jogging at early am hours before I could then go to sleep from my mid teens to mid 20s. Then I suddenly developed metabolic problems and eventual cfs/me symptoms. I used short tv episodes and rewatching shows I didn't care if I fell asleep during on a laptop with a dimmed screen. I also started drinking 2/3rds of a highly caffeinated soda quickly right before bed to get sleep until a doctor actually diagnosed me as having ADHD and gave me daytime amphetamines and evening clonidine and belsomra. You could thoroughly clean the house or whatever gets you moving if you can't go outside. Burn the energy off and release the useful neurotransmitters and endorphins that come from activity.
If you can't accomplish any physical activity then watching a little tv is not a bad thing for people with such issues but preferably on a dim screen with a blue screen filter or blue light filtering sunglasses that you can buy specifically for the purpose of reducing negative effects on sleep when using electronics in the evening. A smaller, dimmable screen like a tablet, phone, or at least laptop computer is a better option to avoid interfering with other sleep triggers than a full tv. Usually these smaller devices have blue screen filtering options already or apps can be installed to perform that function for you. Some newer tvs do and some don't but either way they produce a lot more light and the less total light of any type in the evening the better.
Some recent studies have shown NIR(near infrared light) may help induce sleepiness, increase melatonin production, and even potentially counter some of the effects of blue light from electronics or bright light from other sources if it does not produce too much visible light of it's own. My own experiments found an 850nm only light best to use for a short period before bed instead of the combo ~600 and 850nm that are used for reducing chronic health problems. 850nm is mostly beyond visible range so has none of the alerting effects of visible light. Exact length of exposure not yet determined in research studies or for my own purposes but at least 15-20mins. Some leave infrared on all evening but usually the combo lights so they can see by the red light without turning on brighter or broader spectrum lighting that might reduce their ability or desire to sleep.
Place things like NIR lights above your field of view and do not look directly at bulbs that use only spectrums outside human vision for long or you may damage your eyes. Lights that have a matching amount of visible light to warn you of how bright it is and make your eyes contract or squint to automatically protect them are safer but also more likely to increase wakefulness instead. Unlike experimenting with UV to mimic sunlight the infrared ranges used can do no more damage to your skin or muscle tissue than excessive use of a heating pad might but some slight caution with the invisible infrared ranges is still needed.
You can also eat or drink something tasty (not in excess) for that dopamine kick to feel better and less agitated while also stopping what activity you are using to procrastinate and help start your bedtime routine. Protein is better than carbs or sugar for a before bed snack and may even improve sleep but small amounts of desert or sweet drinks will be more helpful than harmful in some situations. For related reasons setting up evening time for "self care"as many call it can make a big difference. It can stop your other sources of procrastination, put that energy somewhere more useful, make you feel good overall, and reduce hormones or neurotransmitters that keep you awake while increasing ones that help you relax and sleep.
Finding a hobby that improves your mental state and can entertain you in the evening may take some time but may solve that gap before bed that is causing issues. Basic physical self care while often paid attention to more by women is one of the easiest and can make you feel clean and relaxed for sleep. It gives you a direction for that restlessness until you can sleep. Skin care, hair care, good smelling massage oils, dry brushing-removes dead skin and clears pores as well as other debated health benefits, etc.... Even simply wiping yourself down with something like combat wipes (amazon.com/gp/product/B07WN... to eliminate body odor and dirt that has accumulated since a shower and reduce skin bacteria that might cause acne or rashes can be enough to make you feel cleaner, expend some energy and get in the mindset for bed as part of your evening routine.
Applying moisturizing oils or creams with arnica can also help reduce chronic inflammation and pain much like taking an NSAID (ibuprofen, advil...). It is actually the only thing that works for me because NSAIDs do not impact any pain I experience. Magnesium oil can help relax muscles, also reduce general muscle/joint discomfort, reduce restless leg syndrome, and as mentioned already can improve sleep but pure mag oil does leave a chloride salt residue behind some find too annoying to sleep with. They have to take a shower after it dries and the magnesium is absorbed. The sports formulas with mag oil often sold for minor injuries or muscle cramps tend to be less concentrated magnesium chloride with things like aloe that dilute and make any lingering chloride salt less noticeable.
Some do find a shower or at least basic rinse before bed very helpful. Many with chronic health or psychiatric issues find attempting to shower can even be physically uncomfortable or just an excessively tedious task so it doesn't work for them. Personally I like my combat wipes, lanolin moisturizing wipes, arnica and lavender massage oil, dry shampoo, dry skin brushing, and other methods to delay showering without being dirty or developing body odor problems. Showers are one of those things my ADHD brain finds difficult to prioritize, considers too long and tedious, and I have a lower tolerance for hot water than most with increased problems when the air is cold as well The part of me in water feels like it's burning too hot if I turn it up warm enough to help counter the cold air. I end up partially burning and partially freezing or just settle for being cold all over. Dopamine issues can mean sensory issues even without things like autism that are often associated with sensory sensitivity problems.
thanks for thorough answer! You gave me so many resources it will take some time for me to read and learn from and most challenging will be to take advantage of... Since you went that far - I should probably mention trillion another related things now! I will try to be brief and clean, but I have soo millions of problems and I can't even write properly I Am sorry
I also learned 6-12 months ago that I have overexcitabilities (OEs) (not official psychologic disorder) which can coocur also with ADHD! I have strong chronic pain, I wasn't able yet to learn more about this for now... Note: I was also diagnosed with AS as child, after my mother filled large questionaries... As to this moment: it remains unknown whether or not I have only OEs, or any permutation of all 3!!! I have definitely OEs tho, when I read something interesting: it is almost like my whole brain activates and can feel every neuron!
Never everything in my life made more sense since I learned about OEs!!! And I probably still have ADHD! Since I have extreme issues to focus, unless I Am interested/motivated/entertained by a task! And I have definitely hyperfocus, I used to play games, or like reading hours and forget even to drink! I have also likely SPD, even tags from T-Shirt used to annoy me a lot to this day! And when I read I see from every word another 20 words and from them another 20 and so on...
I have also inflammation! My diet is shit! And I don't know how to improve it: because I have poor episodic memory (I don't remember even what I had for lunch yesterday many times) and I suck in planning big time! Also my mother is tired from work and doesn't help me with anything and diet planning is complicated at best! Also I Am planning to go to dieticians for that reason ASAP! But I didn't fix my sleep schedule yet!
Finding omega 3/6 contents is pain, now I can't find omega contents for zander Aka pikeperch and I will need to plan proper omega 3/6 ratios, well something like that I wasn't even able to get done years, wish me luck... I would have to weight everything and calculate everything, while I have poor memory now... When I AM in pain first 3-6 hours (since I wake up) I couldn't even dream of this!!!
I have also executive disfunctions and negative emotions (like despair, feel of failure) which prevent me from creating diet. And because I see too many options, I don't know how to start from small tasks and improve consistently and I lose in thousands of things quickly that I Am paralyzed! Also I have associated great pain with this task, so I can't even think about it, or I get headaches in 1 minute.
It is like when I had to read manual from a toothbrush, because pressure sensor is useless and doesn't do anything - I couldn't read even 1 minute and I had huge headache and pain on my chest anxiety and had to stop, but then I could read 5 minutes like something interesting... Which even that is problem - I can't read in general because headaches more than 5-15 minutes properly, or less even...
You don't understand how bad this is! It is not even pain, but high level torture! I know, I saw all and I experienced 9/10 pain multiple times! That kind that you wish it would stop every second and you would do anything!!! So I Am not saying this lightly that this is torture! And no one helps me, I have no friends, or people which would be willing to help me... No one can even understand me, it is so awful, no one ever get my points, it is annoying as hell!!!
I had fibro probably, but it is long time ago like 4 years: I used to have stinging pain in whole body!!! Neurologist didn't find anything... Luckily this is gone, you don't understand how many types of overarching pains I had... Now my chronic pain is mostly: RSI and back back, headaches, spine, and fatigue. Not sure if inflammation causes chronic pain...
OMGsleep hygiene: there is smoke like 1-2 time at least per weak on average. I can't even ventilate before sleep many times... And there is some low life smoking above me (I live in a flat) that even in 3AM when I open window many times smoke goes in... Also radiator is making noise here: that I can't sleep even whole nights...
I will try to ask in cooperative, if they could send technician. Because they already cleaned pipes twice and it didn't help! It is annoying as heck: hammering, hissing and dynamic sounds, it is annoying as hell!!! Last year: it was even worse, because someone installed custom radiator in their flat and it was like 60db. I couldn't sleep whole nights... It was torture!!!
Sleep is huge issue: I have also deviated nasal septum!!! Sometimes I can't breathe at all with my nose and it causes me not to fall asleep even hours! I wanted to go to operation, but then COVID and before I struggled with back pain, I wouldn't endure lying in bed couple days afterwards - so I didn't go...
I Am not in favor of pills and at this point I don't think it is worth it... These are made for profit, no one cares about negative side-effects and they are not really healthy... True I have extreme problems, so I may want to consider it. But I rather would a have an external structure, If I know what to do when I can do it, but I don't even know how to make plans. I have no imagination, it is problem: I don't know where to start... It is complicated from reasons I won't go into right now... Also like natural stimulants didn't help much like: coffee, or green tea! Also I avoid them for now, because insomnia, even if taken before 12PM (I Am not sure now, if it OK)...
Problem is: I won't feel positive motivation and entertainment ever again in my life mostly in 99% of cases... I will only feel interest, excitement. Everything which drivers my life in negative motivation and even superintelligence AI couldn't change that in all probability - and I won't go into that from multiple reasons...
Dopamine is used tho to get the thing we want: whether or not it is (positive | negative): sciencedaily.com/releases/2... Not sure what are causes on the brain, if I Am motivated only by pain constantly! Maybe in very rare cases 1% or less by pleasure...
I don't know after I stopped with caffeine I sleep better! Maybe before 12PM only. Problem is I can't really get work done until at least 3-6 hours since awakening. Because pain! So not sure how this would help me during a day and could possibly interfere with my sleep anyways dunno need to check...
Yeah I Am not doing any meds! I prefer natural way! I need to get more moving exercise. Again for dopamine: I would need some social contact, it is not healthy to be lonely. But I can't drive more than 15 minutes in car. So before it will be yet... That is the problem, because pain and boredom I can't do things to cure pain and boredom: it is catch 22. I Am stuck in this state 6 years of chronic pain and absolute suffering when I can't do anything except watch a wall 90% of the time...
I now go sleep between 22-23PM, but I said that many times, and then I fucked it up again... Maybe I already suffered so much, that pain is greater than boredom! I keep telling myself that I need to endure this couple weeks, than it will be a little bit better and then endure another things couple months, but here I Am...
AGAIN my problem number 1 is insane boredom: and I can't do anything with that, that is the problem. This is rarest situation that ever happened I believe... No one is like that... Because nothing entertains me, I have profound existential boredom 6 years... Only thing when I can escape is when I Am learning 24/7 about everything that exists and even doesn't exist academyofideas.com/2013/12/... - but I can't do even that anymore, because I Am almost demented and pain!!! So I Am whole day suffering like watching a wall - not joking!!!
I Am not really conventional person, I know metaphysics of the universe. I have very specific reasons what I want to do when and why! I can only become nothing when I lose myself in art, or my work and experience in heightened state euphoria. But nothing really entertains me, or I don't feel pleasure per se... It is not really pleasure what I feel more like: awe, excitement, or negation of negative feelings... I have 0 motivation for anything. And not many things fascinate me anymore, because how much I saw... And i have anhedonia... I Am basically robot doing things, because I Am forced for very specific reasons...
I would be fine, if I get to a point when I can learn 24/7... But how is the problem:
- when I can walk max 0.5-1km per day (and yet I have huge headaches, I feel like having fibres in my eyes, my whole spines hurts and +10)...
- I get most bored before sleep and I developed aversion to sleep because it takes me to fall asleep 2-3 hours on average, sometimes even not whole night... And again: I have deviated nasal septum - when I can't breathe with nose I can't sleep 3 hours... And doctor described drops don't work at all... And I can't go on operation just yet: it will be months yet at best!!!
- can't get any friends, because I can't go anywhere, so I don't have important neurotransmitters
- I Am eating unhealthy because from boredom
... so I Am getting more and more unhealthy and is harder and harder to get better...
Yeah also it is problem, because adenosine levels drop at night, or something. We can endure procrastination then and can get things done... I Am also night owl and feel best at night, so I want to do something at night, just before sleep. Man I didn't sleep whole nights and then someone drilled into walls when I tried to sleep - literal torture... I Am already half demented tortured near to death...
I think my main issues preventing me from sleep:
- revenge bedtime procrastination (during day I try to do stuff and procrastinate them 1000 times - it is painful as hell)!!!
- I Am night owl, but I need to go somewhere so I need to sleep early. But I can't afford going to sleep late...
- adenosine: so I want to do things just before sleep while whole day procrastinating
- despair (I have mania and get feelings like it never gets better) and don't have any positive motivation (I Am just here because forced, it is complicated situation, I Am not suicidal don't worry)!
- anxiety from millions of things: now I improved this a lot, but still it is tough
- depression sometimes huge darkness comes to me before sleep and I Am shaking - you don't want to know from what - trust me!
- histamines from stress (I feel like I AM behind and should be doing millions things "literally") but now I Am sort of OK with everything and try to take it slow
... probably forget another 10 things... I have bad memory right now, I can't remember/recall anything...
I used flux, but still it is not clear if brightness, or red light or something doesn't still play role in wakefulness...
I should ideally turn off computer 1 hour before sleep, problem is I can't read even 5 minutes my spine starts to hurt when I lean and I can't hold hands in the air, after 2 minutes already... So I can't read! And audiobooks bore me to death, even I should give it try, it would help a lot I think!
My main problem is also: that I Am not consistent, if I added 1-3 things per day and be consistent on them is my wish. But I AM like zombie whole day, things happen to me! I Am absolutely not in control. I don't know how to plan and execute even smallest things! I didn't even clean teeth at morning many times... Even that was painful, I procrastinated it 100 times: either my stomach hurt, or I wanted to eat something and then I wasn't mood after that, then I forget and when I recalled it was already too late in a day, so I was like whatever...
That IR light seems interesting, I will check it out!
Tell me about it, I need not to eat 2-3 hours before sleep!!! I already that, and did other things wrong. But now again I started overeating before night from boredom! It is so chaotic I Am fluctuating between millions of things! I need also eat starches, or something against hunger more. To not get hungry before night, while I AM not even human I AM robot. I don't remember anything during day and then I am tired. I know about 100k things, but don't know what to do first and how... While I don't know how to execute even smallest single thing...
And problem is, when I start doing something productive. I can't go back to watching TV shows that day, so I overwork myself and than do twice of unhealthy decisions... I don't know where to stop. Now I write this like 1-2 hours (I don't know what takes me even so long, because I have poor working memory (and high recall times, forget what I was writing about) now on text and I constantly rewrite everything as I get lost in tangents and when I said already something above, but it is related to something lower, how to write without repeating myself)?! I don't absolutely know how people write without repeating themselves, as multiple things are related, and I have to mention different aspects of them each time... And my spine is tingling - I don't know why I don't stop and finish this later. But I get bored and even if someone writes to me I get dopamine spike from boredom, as I have no social contact...
I have also 30 mental disoders and no one decent to talk about them. My psychiatrist is too dumb to understand even simplest things... And existential psychotherapy has queues 2-3 months at best... Same I don't have even money for that. It would take 1000 hours to explain basics and I would have to prepare like 10k articles, which I can't even in this state to explain this. At least it could help with some smaller problems, but I Am in fucking queue...
OATS are good before sleep. Yeah 1 hour before sleep no drinks. Hmm even it is carb, it helps maybe a little.
Hobby: I can't do anything whole day, so it doesn't threaten... I can't even play PC games anymore - brutal RSI...
I bought lavender oil recently - good idea, I used it only like once twice (while I have it 2 weeks). Because I forget and I don't like daub in it... You don't know how bad my boredom is, even when I go exercising, after 5-10 minutes I quit (and whole time I feel bored and constantly have to force myself to continue and not give up).
I Am most boredom person in the world so...
Cleaning with wipes after shower - brilliant Wouldn't think about it in million years...
You are constantly bored because your brain is deprived of necessary neurotransmitters to feel normal emotions and especially dopamine for feelings of satisfaction and contentment. It also sounds like your body is too strained to feed your brain any energy and all the things it needs so you can't entertain yourself anyway.
I reached the point I was laying in bed feeling like I was dying and yet I had no symptom to point to that could explain why. The blood tests typical doctors were willing to do came back fine. I'd drag myself to my computer chair and lay my head down on my desk in front of my laptop to say I had gotten out of bed. For sleep disorders you are not supposed to lay in bed if you aren't sleeping so officially I got out of bed. I accomplished nothing else. I try to treat my ADHD but my husband fails to acknowledge his individual symptoms and do something about it. Left up to him we were walking on a layer of garbage on the floor, all the trash cans had overflowed, mold was growing under some boxes by the bed, there were a few dog poop accidents up to a week old in the kitchen by the door to outside, and I don't even remember what else because I was too out of it.
I couldn't solve plugging a device into a power strip socket so my phone or tablet could charge because my brain was that badly impacted by what started as a broken metabolic system and spread to include all hormones, neurotransmitters, combined with my adhd, impacted all organs, all tissue, all body functions....... Every system in my body was failing in some way but all of it was managing to keep going enough that the blood tests did not show a true deficiency. I was borderline low on various vitamins, borderline low on thyroid hormone, had a slightly high white cell count that they ignored, and so on for every test. Until an integrative health doctor took those borderline values seriously and started treating things. It involved a LOT of pills and powders but nearly all over the counter, which actually meant it took longer to solve my issues than using prescription meds would have in some cases.
You take pills because you have a physical problem due to genetics or damage to your body that cannot be fixed by any behavior or diet change. Just like if you are diabetic you take insulin. Do you not believe in using insulin? What if it's type 1 diabetes or so severe that simply altering diet is not effective because you are producing so little insulin? What about thyroid medication for low thyroid when it's a result of genetics or damage to the thyroid that has no way to improve it's function? Mine was temporary but to take the strain off my body I took porcine thyroid hormone prescription pills for awhile to treat my temporary hypothyroidism until my body could support itself again.
ADHD and other dopamine issues are the exact same thing except it's rarely something temporary that causes that much of a problem. Your body is either incapable of making enough dopamine or sometimes the brain never properly formed certain pathways and receptors. It physically cannot use the dopamine neurotransmitter. Due to a physical deformity you cannot move dopamine from one part of the brain to the other. The result of this is executive function issues, problems switching from one task to another, problems prioritizing what you should, problems remembering things, constant boredom and a feeling like the world is never interesting enough, and sometimes pain and inflammation.
ADHD meds help increase and move the dopamine to where it's supposed to be at the correct levels. Just like thyroid hormone pills replace missing thyroid hormone and insulin replaces your missing production of insulin. These issues in your head are still physical health issues that require medical treatment. No diet, exercise, or behavior is going to fix the dopamine pathways or many other things that could be wrong. It's like a broken bone that is not lined up. Even if it healed it would heal out of place and not work right. You have to fix it manually and keep it in place until it heals correctly. In some cases amphetamines for ADHD have resulted in what are likely permanent improvements in pathway function. Changes to brain function that are closer to the average person than what is normally seen with ADHD brain activity scans has been observed 18 months after all ADHD meds and any dopamine related supplements were stopped. That makes it quite likely at least partially permanent. You are fixing a broken pathway or receptor like you would fix a damaged organ or a broken bone with medical treatment.
Of course if it's not clearly ADHD then whether it can be improved as easily is hard to say but it still looks like some of your problem is dopamine related. It also looks like you have the same type of metabolic malfunctions as I did.
So....
2nd problem: Trying to get everything you need from your diet when you have health issues is idiotic. It simply won't happen unless you move to the right part of the world where the native diet and available foods match your needs exactly. Even then your body may be past the point it can make use of those foods in their current form and it could take you 10 years of eating that ideal diet to fully recover.
For example: Some of the foods you eat are already high in omega 6 so you need foods that are higher in omega 3 ratio than the overall diet target for omega 3 to 6 in order to balance the entire diet out to the proper ratio. The minimum omega 3s by itself recommended to add to your diet by numerous sources and the integrative health doctor that helped with my metabolic and cfs symptoms is 2 grams. That is only pure omega 3s to balance the other omega fatty acids already in most peoples' diet in order to have a chance of improvements in inflammation. If you had a fish fillet of pure omega 3 with no 6 or 9 you could get that in a perch fillet but with it containing inflammatory 6s you would have to eat far more to balance out your entire diet.
It gets worse.
One of the studies I linked to already in the other post said those researchers didn't find benefits until 7-10 grams of omega 3 were added. For more severe and complex health issues with extreme inflammation and issues of brain fog like is probably causing your headaches and contributing to the inability to concentrate it would be reasonable to require that much. If you used no other anti inflammatory because you wanted to avoid even herbal pills, liquids, and creams.
With my husband double checking the calculation that would mean you would need to eat around a whole pound or slightly over 2kg a day of perch to accomplish the omega 3 content. That doesn't take into consideration how much more omega 6 you are adding with it though.
This is why we use omega 3 concentrated pills. Some even taker refined DHA or DHA and EPA only pills instead of including any whole oil in order to provide enough to make a difference without adding any other fats they don't want. Otherwise those people can never possibly ingest enough to correct their accumulated health problems. Even using highly refined sources I've had a heck of a time finding and affording high enough dosage and quality omega 3 sources to make any noticeable difference. Just eating fish or even taking regular fish oil really isn't going to get you anywhere close.
Practically no one relies on only omega fatty acids to correct an inflammatory issue because it's very unlikely to work. It's far too mild of an anti inflammatory and you need too much but there are many non prescription options that may even be more helpful. Most prescription options don't fix the problem and require lifelong use. I would never take anti inflammatory prescription meds long term unless I had no choice and it was worth the side effects that would result. I would rather fix the problem so I don't need them but first you have to get things under control and only omega fatty acids and diet very rarely accomplishes that when your symptoms are this severe.
A few that have gone completely extreme with full ketogenic diets or similar have managed to fix such problems on diet alone but there are many doctors and researchers that question the safety of that. It may have long term health negatives. It's also really difficult, leaves you feeling 10x worse for weeks or even months while your body adjusts, you probably won't be getting out of bed some days due to how miserable an extreme diet will make you temporarily, and it takes dedication and not slipping up even a single day. It's not feasible or possibly even safe.
I am the last person to suggest tons of pills that could be harmful or even just useless. Having a good diet is a necessary foundation and I am still fixing the damage done by taking various psychiatric medications for years before I got the correct diagnoses. However, I also know some pills are a good thing. Some concentrated substances are needed if you have certain genetics, certain acquired health issues, certain birth defects, live in certain parts of the world, follow a certain lifestyle, and all those other variables. It just has to be the right pills or other forms of meds and supplements so they are helpful instead of harmful.
The wrong diet can be harmful. The wrong supplement can be harmful. The wrong over the counter herb can be harmful. The wrong medication can be harmful. The correct one of any of those can be life altering and life saving so where do you draw the line at Ï will take this but not this"? Are aged and heavily processed foods that far from concentrated amino acid supplements? What if you use a lot of a common herb to season things that is anti inflammatory and makes those dishes taste better? What if you make herbal tea from it? At what point is it different from swallowing a capsule of that herb?
I would have no life right now, be unable to put sentences together, be unable to play computer games or watch tv shows, and certainly not take my dogs hiking ever again if it weren't for pills, powders, extracts, and all those other prescription and non-prescription solutions out there.
Trying to fix metabolic and nutritional issues by only altering your diet will usually take years to fix 1 single problem and by now you have many problems. I used concentrated sublingual vit d drops for my severe vit d deficiency because the integrative health doctor said with my levels even if I went out in the sun given how far north I am it would have taken 2 years to have sufficient levels long enough to start improving my health. Some people in northern climates are constantly slightly low in vit d. In that case supplements are good. They fix an environmental problem that was causing me to lose teeth, have immune issues like such severe bronchitis I had to take showers with the bathroom door open or the steam kept me from breathing, and reducing my energy further. The health issues made it extra hard to get up and go outside so my ability to get sunlight was compromised further. Instead I took 10,000iu in 10 drops of minty oil a day and stopped damaging teeth after 2 months, tested within normal ranges in 4months, and no bronchitis after 6 months. If I'd done it the slow way through what daylight exposure and diet items I could I'd have no teeth left and my bones would have been damaged by the time I fixed the issue.
3rd problem: The body has to convert the things it eats to different forms. 1 protein is made up of numerous amino acids that make numerous hormones and neurotransmitters. One of the starting points of this is called the kreb or citric acid cycle. The kreb cycle splits off to make other cycles like the conversion of cysteines into other things and back to cysteine. It's a bunch of interconnected circles and branching charts coming off them of how each thing you eat turns into something else and then something else. It takes many many steps to make a final product like dopamine or hormones like cortisol. When you break it due to poor diet it can sometimes be a lot like shoving a wrench in the gear of a massive, complex machine and watching all the parts in every direction break one by one. At that point your body can't fix it even with a balanced diet and you likely can't get the foods you'd need to ingest enough of what is needed to fix it anyway.
The body converts these nutrients into needed compounds using vitamins and minerals. When you break the kreb cycle and cause metabolic problems you excessively deplete some vitamins while having excess of others. The whole system gets thrown off. You need concentrated sources of certain vitamins to fix it. Mainly you need b vitamins in their methylated form.
So on top of your 2 kg of perch a day you need several pounds of leafy greens for methylfolate and while you would probably get enough methylcobalamin(b12) from that much fish if you actually ate it this list of what you need will only keep growing and it's not all in perch and leafy greens. You need numerous other vitamins and a wide range of minerals plus a broader variety of fats and proteins than fish.
Eventually there is a point you simply can't ingest enough of various foods to correct the problems that have built up. The more years this has been going on the more broken the system is and the more excess byproducts you have that need dealt with, the more neurotransmitters, hormones, and coenzmes you are low in, and the worse your inflammation and other accumulated issues interfere.
One of the links I posted of natural ways to raise dopamine talks about how dopamine reduces inflammation but inflammation interferes with dopamine. So once you have inflammation you need more than you did before that issue to overcome the interference.
Using diet alone you will begin to fix your problems about 5-10 years from now if you managed to stick with it and not slip up too many days out of each week or eat any junk food at all. With meds and concentrated supplements of the right types doctors tell you to expect it to take 2-4 years to fully counter the damage done if you have been suffering fibro or cfs/me for several years.
4th problem: If we are dealing with cfs or fibro then things are not just low dopamine or metabolic issues. 90% of people dealing with either disorder has opportunistic bacterial and yeast infections. These things get in the way of processing nutrients, they damage tissue so you have to use more nutrients to repair it, have more inflammation getting in the way, and that area of tissue is not working until it's repaired.
Your immune system is likely malfunctioning. The current theory is that the body gets triggered to attack an illness and it just keeps going in an attempt to wipe out everything or something it never can. Everyone has a few dormant virus that live in us forever because our immune system can't get to where it's hiding. Nearly the entire population of the world carries a herpes virus (the one that causes cold sores) most of their lives. Many of them from childhood. The body can't destroy it completely so normally it only destroys it when it comes out of hiding and it gets more and more efficient until you can't remember the last time you had a cold sore. If it tries to completely eliminate the herpes virus it ends up causing tons of damage to the surrounding tissue trying to reach every piece of herpes virus. It also fails to destroy those opportunistic infections while it's busy attempting the impossible.
So with all the damage and inflammation going on even if you did ingest enough of every vitamin, mineral, and macronutrient (protein, fats, carbs) you are in need of to repair your body it may not be able to run the conversion steps, create new tissue, or stop the inflammation from the run away immune system.
Step 1. You need meds or supplements to reduce the immune response and inflammation so the body can make use of what you ingest. This would also begin to relieve your headaches and inability to concentrate and further research for yourself.
Step 2 Sometimes you then need supplemental hormones to get all your organs and body systems functioning properly. It's a bit limited what you can do without doctors but supporting supplements can get you pretty far if organ systems are not actually damaged. Eventually the body will usually finish correcting itself fully if you relieve the various problems and provide more resources to do so.
Step 3 You need concentrated doses of certain vitamins, minerals, proteins, and fats to provide the missing nutrients and the ability to convert them into what the body needs. So a quality b complex with methylfolate instead of folic acid and methylcobalamn for b12 instead of cyanocobalamin. After 2 months of swapping a few brands of b complex I found I was overly sensitive to thiamine so I use Jarrow methylfolate and methylb12 lozenges to treat both a genetic issue (impaired MTHFR gene) and a problem with either absorbing or storing b12. As soon as I stop ingesting excess b12 tests show my body does not have enough to use. Generally your body stores up years worth of b12 while you are healthy but that's one of those systems that can break and then you need ongoing b12 in greater quantities. I take thiamine once a week. Then I use nutricost electrolytes that have a little b vitamins and variety of minerals.
One of the best solutions I found to all the vitamins, minerals, and other things that you need to process nutrients is freeze dried beef liver. It can be a problem if your body is not clearing heavy metals properly but otherwise it contains not only all the b vitamins, vit A, some vit D and E, and minerals but also enzymes and co enzymes like glutathione and coq10 to help your body process food and deal with waste byproducts on every level. Studies comparing giving only manmade vitamins or pureed liver found people given pureed liver had much greater health improvements and immediately while those on manmade vitamin supplements took several months to show anywhere near the same level of improvements. Beef liver capsules are like instant energy and brain clearing when I haven't been eating right or skipped other supplement sources too often.
After vitamins, minerals, and enzymes you need macro nutrients. The most useful amino acids in studies to supplement in concentrated amounts for fibro and cfs brain fog and fatigue issues have been ribose and acetyl carnitine. These are effective almost 100% of the time at improving symptoms in studies. I suggest those plus if you can't cook enough good protein daily and in a variety I would get protein or meal replacement shakes to drink once per day or at least a few times a week for simplicity. I couldn't find the energy to clean the cups and mix new protein shakes often enough for daily but it was still extremely helpful. I found it's even helpful just to put 1/3rd scoop in my coffee daily. You definitely don't want only fish. You want to get to the point you can eat many different proteins to get all the amino acid variety you need without feeling more fatigued or harder to concentrate. Fish will be missing some amino acids even as it gives you some useful fatty acids.
I custom blend my meal replacement shakes from true nutrition to create 19g protein, 6g carb, 2g fiber, 2g fat, 1g sugar, and a total of 124 calories per shake. The fat is not accurate because their fat sources were overpriced so I add 2 tablespoons (28grams) of either coconut oil powder to that or 2 tablespoons of virgin coconut oil to a hot drink each day to add enough quality fat to my diet. Whatever source you find for quick, healthy food and high protein just don't try to use the cheap meal replacement shakes in stores. I made myself sick attempting that. Find a quality company online if you go that route.
That's really only a starting point to treating the dietary, metabolic and fibro contributions to your symptoms. Dopamine I can fit in a slightly over long post or 2. Fibro and metabolic issues would take a website full of articles. So try the SHINE protocol site for all those articles but if you won't use even otc supplements in concentrated forms there is probably no point to this whole discussion because it's likely not possible to improve your health without at least concentrated nutritional supplements and herbals of some type.
I avoided SHINE at first because of the "fatigued to fantastic"over sensationalized hype that seemed like it had to be a gimmick. I found after seeing the integrative health doctor and further research that the doctor behind it is actually quite accurate and effective at treating cfs, fibro, and other chronic fatigue, metabolic, or brain fog causing problems. Most of the things on the main website have ever increasing studies to back them up and more doctors are beginning to use the SHINE protocol. Especially now that cfs/me has an official name beyond chronic fatigue and is recognized as a true disorder by many medical organizations.
If sleep issues are severe though I would not try to fully fix those first like it suggests. Sleep issues are a symptom and result of other problems. It can cause more symptoms but it is not a disorder by itself. You can improve it some but you need to work on the causes your other issues are creating before you will make truly noticeable progress on sleep.
1. I can't do anything whole day literally! So I can't entertain myself, if I could learn C++ or something which would match my skill, then I would experience flow. But problem is chronic pain and fatigue, brain fog, blurred vision, headaches (my head feels constantly like a rock), I feel every veterbrae on my neck spine, sometimes even on my whole spine... So I can't do literally anything interesting, so I Am stuck last couple years watching like 75% of time only TV shows (which is to the point that it is torture for me)!!!
2. And because existential boredom - I don't really enjoy anything in life!
Also to add: Iwas bored with life long-time before chronic pain, inflammation and what not! Not necessarily because my neurotransmitters: because I was playing games 24/7, because I didn't know about anything else and school bored me to death quite literally... And games were better than everything else at the time, I found life incredibly boring!!!
I have headaches mainly from cervicocranial syndrome (it causes feeling of head like a rock) I have diagnosed this from orthoped. Also I had (not sure if this is right term) blocked spam at age of 13 already, not sure if I still have it, but probably... I have also tension headaches.
Damn these forums don't have quotes - it is really bad! I wasn't diagnosed with diabetes, while I went on extensive bloodtests, but it was awhile from now...
Firstly: I don't know if there is necessarily physically something that wrong with my body that would require pills! Which might as well be my case! It can't be good the way I lived right... I Am planning to go to GD ASAP, once I stabilize my sleep schedule a bit!
Secondly: I Am sorry for what you were going through! But this is Strawman logical fallacy! To say: I Am in general against pills, or in this case pills against ADHD, doesn't mean I Am against insulin!
Yeah, but I have MDD (I Am less depressed recently - it would be hard to explain), but I have still anhedonia and existential boredom (I don't enjoy literally anything in life and never will again) and I can't do whole day anything except watch TV shows, which is like watching walls to me at this point!!! But I can escape in learning 24/7 about everything that exists - won't be 8 months to years from now... Then I can become nothing and escape (ego, pain, boredom)... It is only thing which works for me to counter existential boredom of millions of another things! Great so I have the solution, but problem is I can't even get there!!!
In case of boredom it is:
not something pills would fix! At first and at last - these are ultimately philosophical problems, than something wrong with my body!!! It is complicated to explain: but people are constantly striving (because of their ego which is source of endless desires) and if we try to live ascetic (to deny ego, which is also hard: as it requires to overcome basic human instincts) then it is only for we find ourselves bored!!!
According to Arthur Schopenhauer: geniuses escape existential boredom in art, or in their work... So they become nothing briefly (when they merge with an object of interest at a time) and experience pure beauty/awe/unknown in a euphoric state! I could never be happy really, but I can escape boredom like this! That's why I need to learn 24/7...
I have executive disfunctions from from extreme boredom and multi-tasking and unhealthy lifestyle, anxiety, besides other things! Dopamine on 99% is also big part of the problem!
I have inflammation mainly, because I was physically destroying my body! From playing PC games too much I got RSI and from sitting a computer 24/7 and not moving and bad ergonomy. I started moving all of the sudden (after 3 years sitting at home) and that is the reason my chronic pain started! Because if you are not used to moving and start (all of the sudden) you gonna tear your fascia! But ofc. dopaminergic issues don't help on top of that, or stress! I reduced stress greatly like about 80% I would say, it reduces my chronic pain - that's good! Meditation was found to even switch of genes associated with chronic pain!
Yeah, it is also a problem: not having local food! At the end: I will have to go to doctor diagnose my level of inflammation. It can be even in brain and I have a quite brain fog! I wasn't saying I would be relying only on omegas, I mentioned it as example: that I need to do millions of things, while struggling with simplest tasks... There are a lots of things to fight inflammation... It will probably depend on a severity as you said!
But you make a compelling point: I don't know much about inflammation and you certainly have better understanding of the subject than me!
You said:"when my symptoms are as severe" but we don't know exactly my levels of inflammation. Brain fog is from another things like eating sweets. That I overdid greatly as well: I eaten even 0.5kg of ice cream from boredom and had probably even like 100-200mg sugar intakes - which is extreme I know (not all the time, but relatively often)... And my diet also wasn't exactly anti-inflammatory, rather the opposite!
"What if you use a lot of a common herb to season things that is anti inflammatory and makes those dishes taste better?"
It would depend on a herb I guess.
I don't know why are you telling me these scary personal stories, just because I said I don't want to take pills for ADHD! I Am not against pills, unless there is no better option, so again: it depends! But thanks for warning, I will have to definitely mention these things to my GP! And decide then based on what I Am told!
EDIT: I had diagnosed slight Vitamin D deficiency, like 4 years ago. It could become worse, because I wasn't almost out at summer (as ppl have some reserves from that time) and in my country there is no possibility of making Vitamin D from the sun (in the winter). Also check this for natural sources of Vitamin D: bigthink.com/health/mushroo....
Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them.
Never delay seeking advice or dialling emergency services because of something that you have read on HealthUnlocked.
Wouldn't think about it in million years...
