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Difficult veins

michelangelina profile image
66 Replies

Hello! Anyone else out there have difficult veins? I have been in treatment since 2018 and they always have trouble finding my veins for blood draws and iv's. I try to stay hydrated and use heat packs right before but that doesn't always help. For convenience I have been asking them to draw blood from my right hand because there is a nice, very visible vein there. I have been doing this for years, but after my last blood draw in November, my index finger and knuckle swelled and are still swollen. I was referred to a hand therapist after seeeing an orthopedic hand specialist. Both the doctor and the therapist believe the blood draw is the cause of the swelling and have advised me not to have blood drawn from my hand anymore. If I were getting iv chemo I would definitely ask for a port, but that seems excessive for just blood draws and the occasional iv to inject contrast for scans. Anyone have any suggestions?

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michelangelina profile image
michelangelina
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66 Replies
2Hopeful profile image
2Hopeful

I absolutely hate being stuck for blood draws and IV’s. My veins are ok but sometimes incompetent people have stuck me 3 times which causes me to about pass out. So I’ve kept my port for almost 10 years even though I’m not on IV chemo. I use my port for blood draws and injections for scans at M D Anderson. For me, it’s been worth it. But I know not everyone will use it for blood draws.

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply to2Hopeful

Thanks for your reply. There have been many occasions where I have been stuck multiple times. Glad to hear that the port work well for you!

Gingerann1 profile image
Gingerann1 in reply to2Hopeful

I would be worried about that port being in so long . I had mine for about 2 1/2 yrs and it became imbedded in my chest. They had to cut it out. Not fun.

2Hopeful profile image
2Hopeful in reply toGingerann1

Interesting. I’ll ask my doctors at M D Anderson about that. None of my doctors have ever told me it was a concern.

13plus profile image
13plus

I agree with you that I think a port is excessive just for draws and scans. Although it’s easier than being stuck with a needle (for us challenging ones) , it adds a much higher risk of infection if they don’t follow proper procedure. I used to get my labs done at Labcorp but there’s no way I’d want them accessing my port for bloodwork.

Interestingly I’m getting a scan done this week , had to choose a location new to me to get an appointment quickly, and they asked for a script from my doc for port access. But the nurse later told me that my doc would prefer they don’t use the port for my scan, I’ve no idea why!

Anyway, so I’ll be getting stuck this week and dread who I might get but , and this is something I forget to do, if you do something like, pushups against the wall, or pump something with your hand it will help plump up your veins. I recently saw a post where the person said she had bought a hand pump gadget that weight trainers use to strengthen their hands, and that it helped her immensely . Or even pump squeezing a small squishy ball might help

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply to13plus

That is interesting--thank you for sharing that! I will try that.

JoeyCallie profile image
JoeyCallie in reply tomichelangelina

Hi Michelangelina; I had lymph nodes removed on my left side so they only have my right arm to draw from. I'm in the same position as you. I always ask for the same person to draw my blood as she teaches at a local college and she is excellent. My veins are small but she says she finds the perfect spot by feel. Someone told me to use a squishy ball to strengthen the muscles but she says no. She said it can cause a build-up of potassium which can cause a host of other problems. Please ask your doctor before trying that. You don't need any other health problems!! Wishing you the best!

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply toJoeyCallie

Thank you!! Wishing you the best also!

13plus profile image
13plus

Hand grip tool like this one

Hand grip tool
Dragonfly2 profile image
Dragonfly2 in reply to13plus

Thank you! I don’t think I have the strength to grip these but I definitely will try the squishy stress balls! What a great idea!

13plus profile image
13plus in reply toDragonfly2

I'd so often find myself sitting there waiting for the nurse to enter the cubicle and only then start to frantically open and clench my hand in an attempt to get the blood pumping better 😆 Having something to actually squeeze would be more effective, the issue is remembering to take something!

Dragonfly2 profile image
Dragonfly2 in reply to13plus

I recently had a colonoscopy and the nurse used ultrasound to locate a vein.., her effort was excruciating..I cried! The next time was about a week ago when I needed an iv for surgery and I spent my prop waiting time to flex my arms repeatedly in the waiting room. (God only knows what the other people thought I was doing)…well, my veins looked great and the nurse put it in without any pain! I think your advice to pump up the veins in excellent! Thank you again!

13plus profile image
13plus in reply toDragonfly2

Yay for success! I was concerned for the one I had last week. Took my ball and didn’t get long to pump it but I like to think it helped! Fairly painless and they got it on the first try. TG! Nothing worse than repeated painful efforts!

Dragonfly2 profile image
Dragonfly2 in reply to13plus

Me too! What a terrific solution for us frequent flyers!

Artesa profile image
Artesa in reply to13plus

great idea!

Nocillo profile image
Nocillo

It’s certainly an issue! I’m coming up on 10 years of only using my left arm. My veins are not easy to find either. Have you asked your facility to use a vein finder? That helped immensely for years. My current facility does not have one, ridiculous in my mind. They can no longer use the run below my elbow to my wrist because they blow out. I’ve been having them use the vein on the inside of my wrist. They don’t like using it, but it works fine. I don’t want a port either. And I’ve found out that they can’t necessarily use a port for everything . Also, don’t be afraid to ask for their most experienced person to do your draw. I do that a lot! It’s your body, you can ask for what or who you need. The goal is comfort while being treated. Good luck!

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply toNocillo

Thank you so much!

13plus profile image
13plus in reply toNocillo

What is a vein finder? And how does it work?

Nocillo profile image
Nocillo in reply to13plus

It is a hand held device, just a bit bigger than a remote control for a tv. It emits some kind of light that allows you to see through the skin and see all the veins inside. Very simple and useful.

13plus profile image
13plus in reply toNocillo

Wow! That’s amazing! All infusion centers should have one!!

Nocillo profile image
Nocillo in reply to13plus

They certainly should!

Lulis profile image
Lulis in reply toNocillo

Yes, please ask for their most knowledgable person. Last week, I had my CT with contrast. They poked me 3 times to get the IV in. The first nurse tried twice. She caught another nurse who was actually leaving for the day. Now, I know who to ask for. Also, for my monthly draws I find that going to the clinic where the oncology center is at is usually a better bet. One of the guys there said they have more experience with hard sticks than the other local clinics. There is one guy there, I don't know how he does it, but always gets a vein on the first try. I only have one arm to use so we are a bit limited.

HelenWi profile image
HelenWi

I have lymphedema in one arm — the one that has great veins but can’t be used, and the other arm is the one that had chemo 15 years ago and the veins are impossible now. I had a brain MRI and it took them 2 hours of trying to set up an IV until they finally called a picc nurse. Honestly I really wanted to punch someone.

Now when I schedule imaging, I ask that they provide a picc nurse — they use ultrasound to locate veins.

SwedishSissi profile image
SwedishSissi in reply toHelenWi

Yes, ultrasound has saved me several times.

Dragonfly2 profile image
Dragonfly2 in reply toHelenWi

Yes, that’s been my request now if they need a big vein for IV saline infusions…they use a big cannula so it can be painful if they have to hunt for it…

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply toHelenWi

Thanks for the suggestion. They did use ultrasound to find my veins when I had my lumpectomy--perhaps I should request routinely. I get my care at Stanford Cancer Center South Bay in San Jose--I believe you are also in the south SF Bay Area. Do you go to Stanford?

HelenWi profile image
HelenWi in reply tomichelangelina

I go to El Camino Cancer Center in Mtn View but I also get second opinion/consultation at UCSF.

HelenWi profile image
HelenWi in reply toHelenWi

Oh! My wonderful nurse practitioner Katie moved to Stanford South Bay.

13plus profile image
13plus in reply toHelenWi

I have never heard of using ultrasound to find a vein, good to know! I am sorry you had that nightmare exerience of them taking so ridiculously long trying to get the IV in!

SwedishSissi profile image
SwedishSissi

Hiya,

I have had this problem for almost 2 years now. I had blood taken today and was told it is quite likely due to the drugs. However, they had a clever machine they call a "Vein Finder" and it had worked twice now. They don't seem to have them in many places, so try to plan my blood tests when I go to places where they have them. It is some kind of ultrasound machine I believe.

I also don't want to get a port in until absolutely necessary.

Take care, Sissi

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply toSwedishSissi

Thank you for the suggestion!

Hazelgreen profile image
Hazelgreen

I have small veins which roll easily. Fortunately, there is one obvious vein close to the surface in my left arm which has now become enlarged. I usually have a messy-looking bruise after blood work, but I prefer this to a nurse probing me several times trying to input a line elsewhere.

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply toHazelgreen

I agree--getting poked several times is no fun

bikebabe profile image
bikebabe

tell me about it… The 3 monthly routine test is now a right ordeal as the only arm available has veins that were used for chemo 3 yrs ago and are all scarred up. They switch technicians after two failed attempts and my heart sinks as I’m then given someone who failed the previous time which doesn’t help. My ulnar artery is also unusable in that arm due to a traumatic cardiac catheterisation despite me saying the pain was intense and now ops are an ordeal because I often need direct arterial pressure monitoring. . That doctor’s name is scarred into my brain and I changed teams after that. I was considering asking the technicians to use the lymphy arm or getting a port but the suggestions on here are great and have given me hope. Thank you to all

Dragonfly2 profile image
Dragonfly2 in reply tobikebabe

Ugh…so sorry you've had this experience…do they care if yiu cry in pain? A bad doctor can ruin future experiences…❤️‍🩹❤️‍🩹

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply tobikebabe

So sorry to here this--it sounds like you have been through an ordeal. I hope the suggestions help!

13plus profile image
13plus in reply tobikebabe

I wouldn't risk using your arm with lymphedema, just not worth it. The whole experience does get very exasperating though

bikebabe profile image
bikebabe

I think I screeched with the arterial one and yes it definitely increases the anxiety for a time until i. get a run of good ones. How about you? For the routine bloods was told to ask for a thin needle and will ask re vein finder for the infusions which need the big needles - although bizarrely they are easier and less painful. I think it’s the scarring. The routine ones push it im, get nothing, push a bit further, cone out other side then withdraw a bit. Because I’m on warfarin that can be a !bruising’ experience’ afterwards. One time I had- golf ball size lump which hadn’t clicked tok I got in car to drive off then had to go all way back again to the clinic.

love2golfwell profile image
love2golfwell

I have difficult veins, too. They can only use one arm because of the mastectomy on my right side, at least that is what I have been told. The vein in my left arm moves and is very close to an artery, so they have to use my hand. Sometimes I get someone who knows what they are doing and they find the vein right away, but many times I get stuck several times, either for an IV for Pet Scan or blood draws. I am meeting with a new doctor and am going to ask her if the arm on the right side could be used since it has been 12 years since my mastectomy and they only removed sentinel nodes. It would give them more options. Also, I am going to try the idea of squeezing a ball or lifting a weight beforehand. Best wishes to you.

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply tolove2golfwell

My nurse navigator at Stanford told me that research shows that it is safe to use the mastectomy side. I have been using that side for years until this recent problem and I have not developed lymphedema. Like you, I only had sentinel nodes removed. But now I think it may be time for me to switch sides, although that is going to be challenging because there are no good veins on the other side. Best wishe to you as well!

bikebabe profile image
bikebabe in reply tomichelangelina

Yes I’d read that it was safe to use the surgeried arm and it’s probably more about how extensive the node surgery was as you say and whether people do preventative activity to reduce/manage that risk and whether they are able to get prompt help were there to be early signs of infection. Mine was total clearance due to extensive positive nodes and I had great help from the clinicians who have looked after/taught me well. Gets to a point when you start to consider that option though…

love2golfwell profile image
love2golfwell in reply tomichelangelina

Thank you for that information. The lab says it should be okay, but the doctor and nurse say no. It would give another option to my left hand being abused!

Lulis profile image
Lulis in reply tomichelangelina

My oncologist said it should be safe to use the mastectomy arm for blood draws, but defintely not for IV's. I haven't tried it though.

Bamagirl3291 profile image
Bamagirl3291

After many bad experiences,(veins blowing, blood wasn’t coming out, no good veins) I had a port placed. I am receiving Ibrance pills and Faslodex injections for Mets. But I also need frequent fluids for dehydration. When getting a port placed was first mentioned, I was hoping it wouldn’t be necessary. I will say that since having it placed I am not as anxious about sticks.

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply toBamagirl3291

Thanks for sharing your experience. I have read posts from a number of people on this forum saying that the port is not a big deal. I am glad to hear that it is going well for you! It is a relief to know that it is not a bad option.

WhippetX2 profile image
WhippetX2

Thank you so much for asking this question. After almost four years of treatments and blood draws I'm beginning to have trouble with vein access. The replies have provided me with information and hope.

CTGirl1962 profile image
CTGirl1962

Hi! Yes! I do!! That’s why I have a port. This is my second time around and I also had a port the first time. I love it and couldn’t get through this journey without it. 🩷

Flower1513 profile image
Flower1513 in reply toCTGirl1962

Are you still on enhertu? How are you doing ?

CTGirl1962 profile image
CTGirl1962 in reply toFlower1513

Yes!!! I am!! Doing great. Some weeks better than others with the exhaustion, but otherwise good!!! How are you??? I’m sorry time gets away with me and I don’t check in as often as I should!!! I hope you’re doing AWESOME. 🙏🏻🩷🙏🏻

Flower1513 profile image
Flower1513 in reply toCTGirl1962

That’s awesome🙌. My mom is the one that’s actually on it. She’s doing good. She started in August . No worries! I think it’s good for you not to check in to often!! Pray it continues working for a long time 🙏

CTGirl1962 profile image
CTGirl1962 in reply toFlower1513

I do remember that now!!! I’m happy it’s still working for your Mom!!! I continue to pray for all of us on Enhertu!! It’s supposed to be our miracle drug!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

monkeygirl62 profile image
monkeygirl62

I love having my port, at first I was so resistant but afterwards I was really happy they did it - I had to have chemo and probably need to have more in the future. I had too many lymph nodes removed back in 1998, like 21 of them when I had early breast cancer. So I don't want lymphedema on my left arm as I have neuropathy on my left arm due to a large tumor that was under my armpit went from 6.3 to 3.4 and it's no longer active. I love how I can be in and out with blood work which I am right now getting about every 3 weeks. And if I go to the hospital there's a chemo/PICC line nurse that will set me up each time. My doctor is ok with this since she knows everyone (that deals with cancer or other things related to ports or PICC lines) in the hospital that is just next door to her cancer center. But I really understand the emotional distress that getting stuck multiple times. I tightened up and kinda of stressed out and found myself holding my breath every time.

hearprint profile image
hearprint

I had a SMX in 2012 so they couldn't use my right arm at all, then in 2021 SMX to the left side so they started using the right arm again. First year wasn't terrible, usually only 2 o3 sticks to get blood. But after a while, as you said even the veins in the hands start to go. That's when they started using my ankle for blood draws, although IV they still had to get the sonogram out to hope to find a usable vein. When I was hospitalized last fall they had to put the PICC line in my jugular. My Oncologist has finally convinced me that I need a port even though I am not on IV chemo. My suggestion is to have them use a sonogram to find a deeper vein for IVs, and consider blood draws from the ankle (they are a little more painful but to me it was better than numerous sticks to try and find a vein that wouldn't collapse or burst). Best of Luck to you!

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply tohearprint

It never occurred to me to ask them to draw blood from my ankle--that is very interesting. Although I also have varicose veins in my legs, so I am not sure that would work for me. But I will consider it!

Dragonfly2 profile image
Dragonfly2

had to get an iv today for surgery on I,Ian fracture surgery…did the clenching and pumping while waiting to be admitted…the iv was easy peasy! Shocked st how painless it was without any issues…maybe there’s something to the pumping to prime the veins!

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply toDragonfly2

That is great news. I have a scan at the end of January--I will be bringing one of those stress balls to squeeze!

Lilywallytootsie profile image
Lilywallytootsie

Had a port installed shortly after being diagnosed at Moffitt Cancer Center due to small, bouncing veins that took many sticks to hit one. I am not on any IV 's but I want to keep it. Everyone who has ever tried to access a vein ends up torturing me. Have had no problems with the port and want to keep it forever. Best wishes to all! Hannah

Silviolina profile image
Silviolina

Hi, same problem. Now I have a port, which is eorking fine to take blood but not for MRT/CT contrast stuff. I am not on IV chemo at the moment.

michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply toSilviolina

Hi! Thanks for your reply. So they can't use the port to inject contrast? That's a shame!

Kerryd22 profile image
Kerryd22 in reply tomichelangelina

I think it’s because only a nurse can use the port. That’s the case here anyway. So if you need a blood draw it needs to be by a nurse not a phlebotomist. I decided against a port when I had IV chemo and I did regret that in a way. The doctor suggested it because I’m not a fan of injections but she also pointed out they’re not a total solution as it needs to be checked every six weeks and its usage is limited.

oilermama profile image
oilermama

I hear you about blood draws!! I give whoever is drawing blood one chance. After that, I tell them to find someone else. I know I must have a cranky picture by my name in the records...

The techs who do the monthly draws are way better than the Zometa folks or the scan people. Not sure why. I ask then to get a vein light and a warm blanket for my arm. that seems to help.

Not fun for sure!

Timtam56 profile image
Timtam56

I love this forum and I love you all. I thank the gods and goddesses for all of you. I learn so much from you all.

And this post here of yours michelangelina, is a perfect example.❤️🙏🏻

Bonnie1942 profile image
Bonnie1942

Always

RedAzalea profile image
RedAzalea

I too have limited veins. There is a vein on the backside of your forearm. I had no idea there was a large vein there until some talented nurse “discovered” it. Please ask them to try. Here is a map - this vein is on the BACK of your forearm , sort of on the side

Vein map
michelangelina profile image
michelangelina in reply toRedAzalea

Thank you!!

Ski2sea profile image
Ski2sea

I am sorry this is happening to you but believe me I understand. I am on Ibrance so monthly draws are part of my life. On top of the scans and the IV contrast - yuck. I still have my port which when I have it flushed every three months they will draw my blood at the same time. When having scans I tell them I am a hard stick and they will have the "port team" come and access it. I tell the nurses not to "dig around" if they can't find a vein or I will pass out. If no port team is available, they will have the "head nurse" come and she/he is able to get a vein. I've been going to a labcorp every month at the local hospital and there are a few folks there who are perfect. For a few years I would ONLY go to the infusion center to have my labs done thru my port. It was scheduled in advance so no issues. I chug essential water and walk really fast to the office, this seems to help get my veins ready to go. Another thing I'll share is if you are getting IV contrast for a scan -- ask the tech to push the contrast SLOW. When they have gone too fast, I barf in the machine-- yeah I know. A nurse told me about the slow contrast push and all is good.

Take care

Tara

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