*This is my opinion only*I only thought about this today.
If ICD (Impulse Control Disorder) can be caused by DA's - with the associated behaviours such as over-spending, hyper-sexuality etc being a result.
Then: how many people on DA's are WRONGLY given a diagnosis of bipolar disorder - and consequently medicated with mood stabilisers and anti-psychotics as a result ?
A cycle of rls
When the problem is:
Rls ?
Ugh. I hate to think about it.
Does anyone know ?
Very true. There are probably thousands of such cases every year.
It's such a horrifying thought.I doubt that anyone would study it to see if it was the case. Maybe one day a doctor well-versed in rls AND psychiatric medicine will do it, hopefully.
Imagine the law suits, if it were proven !! 😬
Interesting thought. And as Joolsg said, probably true. I experienced it myself. Husband urged me to see a psychiatrist, who came with two, and the three of them tried to convince me to take antidepressiva. But, I wasn’t depressed. Just hopeless. So I refused. Not exactly the same, but somewhat similar situation. People simply don’t understand (severe) RLS and how it affects you.
When I was withdrawing off DA’s, my primary care physician said she had no way of testing dopamine in the brain and she brushed off DAWS and said all she could offer me was a psychiatry referral. I switched PCPs Shocking and shameful.
How awful for you ! It is 'shocking and shameful'.I hope your new PCP is kinder and more knowledgeable !
All too possible:
"Impulsivity and Bipolar Disorder...
Some people notice that they engage in more impulsive behaviors when they are experiencing symptoms of hypomania. We can define impulsive behaviors as actions that might feel good or desirable in the moment but that, in the long term, may have more negative consequences for you. Examples of these types of behaviors include spending sprees, excessive substance use, and risky sexual activities"
psychologytoday.com/us/blog...
UK NICE recognises hypomania, which can in part include "extravagant or impractical plans (for example business investments, spending sprees)", as one of the possible symptoms of bipolar disorder.
Of course, formal diagnosis of BPD should be more rigorous than just picking up on one characteristic - such as ICD - but with the pressures on health services...
I’ve thought about this but with a different population. Many persons with dementia due to Alzheimer’s or other diagnosis get prescribed “anti-psychotic” medications (for agitation) that trigger RLS. Then they are up at night restless and walking. This behavior is seen as a component of the dementia rather than a side effect of the medication. As a retired nurse, who worked in geriatrics, I wish I had made this connection earlier.
I have begun to think similarly. My parents were in a nursing home for people with dementia, and there was one ‘wanderer’. Only afterwards (this man and both my parents died almost two years ago), I wondered whether the ‘wanderer’ had RLS.
The psychiatrists I’ve seen have known nothing about RLS and they all just threw more antidepressants my way, so yes I can believe it. The last one offered a partial dopamine agonist which, when I came off it, made me speed for several days, but he decided it was due to nocebo effect! Then he said to just stick with quetiapine (for insomnia). They are vile, these people, should all be sued for medical negligence and gross incompetence.
Ugh. Quetiapine. Made my legs go crazy. I used to walk up and down my street, half asleep and very, very unsteady to deal with the severe rls it caused - I was mis diagnosed as having bipolar. I think the last time I had it was in 2012, never again !
I hope you are doing better and I agree, they are negligent in the fact that they refuse to look at what peer reviewed research is saying.
Sorry to hear that! The shrinks are quacks who really don’t know anything worth knowing. The last one didn’t check my medical history and just decided I don’t have any diagnoses of physiological diseases although I do. He wrote down restless legs but never brought it up again, just kept bombarding me with provocative questions that gave me brain freeze and made me nervous, then interrupted me when I tried to explain my problems, then wrote AHA! She’s anxious!! Mystery solved!
I have been psychologised all my life and sure I’ve had bad times but it’s all more likely to be down to ADHD or something related than whatever the doctors imagine, but perhaps it’s in fact all RLS? Unfortunately I suffer from severe insomnia so quetiapine in really small doses (less than 25 mg) is pretty much the only thing that helps. However, the side effects should be discussed! Instead the doctors write BS in their reports and don’t understand that some conditions can be paradoxical and some drugs can have paradoxical effects. I’ve been trying to find something else but am struggling, and the doctors are USELESS. Most sedating drugs and herbs give me more RLS but the RLS medication (Buprenorphine) wakes me up. So it’s an unsolvable paradox. Sad that being a doctor doesn’t require any intelligence. I’m trying to get back to some kind of baseline because all the drugs are messing me up so bad I don’t know what level RLS I really have without them. Can’t live with them, can’t live without, what to do.
I can relate !Many, many psychological and chronic pain conditions may be due to traumas - whether they be DV, SA or other.
Or possibly being 'neurodivergent'. However, I do believe that they are trivialised, especially when it comes to women (yes, I know men have these conditions too): often being put down to 'over-reacting', 'too sensitive', 'menopausal' etc. As women, we are are over-medicated (or under-medicated), told to 'lose weight' (even when in a healthy range and very much the victims of psychiatric misogyny at times and it's exhausting.
I no longer take any antidepressants as I really just needed social connection, a good psychologist where I felt safe to talk about trauma - mine has manifested in panic disorder with agorapbobia - which I have overcome to a certain degree.
They key, I think is to link everything together both holistially AND in context.
For instance with myself it was something like this: SA - (breakdown & medication) - DV - (breakdown, more medication + diagnosis of bpd) - DV/ post natal depression (you can guess + bipolar 2) - SA - (...).. but had rls all that time as well, but I never connected it until the quetiapine, or the SSRI/SNRI, or the Tricyclics. Then I was given Sifrol, but thankfully found this site and managed to get off it...but I did notice that I spent more. As I am 'poor', I guess I was lucky that I had little capital to spend - or goodness knows what could have happened !
So after nearly 44 years, my only diagnosis is panic disorder, some ptsd, rls and sciatica - no bipolar, no bpd..
I DO take one rls triggering med, (rosuvastatin), but if I take it very early in the morning, I find that it doesn't seem to make rls worse. But I also take 300 mg of pregabalin (pain and rls) diazepam (when I need it), so there's that - and for sleep, I take between 100 and 300 micrograms of Clonidine, which I frankly couldn't live without. It's not addictive and could very well replace 25 mg of quetiapine.
Sorry for my very long reply. I do feel quite passionate about the rls - DA - psychiatric med - rls cycle.
(In fact I feel really upset about it)
Don’t worry about writing too much. Wish I could take clonidine, can’t get it over here. I have a problem metabolising drugs and was on a constant spending spree while I was using estrogen. I’d just inherited some money and it was nice to spend on myself, but I don’t think the nightly shopping habits were quite natural. I’ve been a bit like that on Buprenorphine as well but I’m trying to cut down on the dose, which is helping. When I tried Ropinirole I threw up and almost passed out so have never been on DA’s.
Clonidine is available in the UK. covwarkformulary.nhs.uk/doc...
GP doesn’t have license to dish it out for sleep problems.
I used it for help in getting off Fentanyl.
I think you meant this for Typicallygaslit
Yes - I thought I was replying! Very confusing!😝👍💚
Hi there. Just read your post interesting enough because I have been diagnosed with Bipolar for about 14 years and prescribed Depakote, sertraline and also an antiphsycotic. I have been reducing my sertraline and antiphsycotic over last 6 months already because they both were causing my RLS to get worse which also was giving me sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation seem to have a knock on affect causing my 4th breakdown Nov 2024 with major overspending extreme GAD symptoms, new diagnosis of fibromyalgia, on top of all my existing conditions, sleep apnea to name one of many. It is a definite mystery I can say that. It certainly has made me wonder !! 🙄
I am very sorry to hear of your struggles !Goodness, it is SO important to get sleep, and as you know, chronic sleep deprivation can cause so many problems !
I wish you all the best with decreasing the meds - you do not say whether or not you have been given dopamine agonists, but if you haven't - please don't take them.
I am not against psychiatric meds at all - they DO have a place in medicine but sometimes the dosages may be too low or too high or perhaps there is another medication available that can help but is no longer 'fashionable' to take.
I guess you have to work it out with your doctor - because as I said in my original post, it's my opinion only and I have absolutely nothing to prove a link.
But with regard to rls, the effects of DAs and many other things, Sue, Joolsg Chris are extremely helpful.
Best wishes to you
Has anyone tried chiropractic care for RLS? 
RLS on the Autoimmune Registry 
Ropinirole Withdrawal or Something Else?
