Fermented foods

[Seaux]

I have had severe RLS in the last 2 years but recently discovered that if I avoid all fermented foods and also all the other well known substances and medicines that exacerbate RLS I DON'T HAVE ANY RLS!!!!!

[Madlegs1]

That's great news.What fermented foods do you avoid?

[Seaux in reply to Madlegs1]

All of them! I went to wikipedia.com and entered "list of fermented foods". I avoid all on the list. I make my own unleavened bread. There are good recipes on YouTube.

[BAK524]

Fermented foods are high in histamines, and RLS sufferers seem to have an intolerance to high levels of histamines. There are other posts on this site that mention this. I have recently cut back on high histamine foods, such as banana, avocado, and kimchi, but have not noticed any improvement in my symptoms.

[Seaux in reply to BAK524]

I hope that maybe avoiding fermented foods will help you. Might be worth a try!

[BAK524 in reply to Seaux]

I'm curious. What prompted you to eliminate fermented foods?

[Seaux in reply to BAK524]

I hadn't eaten any yogurt in a long time but when I did about 3 weeks ago my RLS became terrible. I knew that all my severe exacerbations were food related but until the yogurt incident, had no idea it was fermented foods.

[Munroist]

Hi, did you find the relief was immediate e.g. the next day or did it take a while for the RLS to improve. If you eat something fermented by accident or weakness(!) does the RLS return immediately? Glad you are getting relief.

[Seaux in reply to Munroist]

The RLS will be bad that night but the next day I'll be OK.

[Guitarpickin]

I have the same questions as Monroist. I love fermented foods (and they’re so good for us!!)…wondering how long the trial period should be if I give it a go.

So happy you’re finding success! Thanks for sharing.

[Seaux in reply to Guitarpickin]

Go to wikipedia.com and enter "list of fermented foods". Then print out the list and follow it carefully for about 10 days. Then reintroduce a strong fermented food such as yogurt or kumbuchi and see what happens.

[DicCarlson]

Fermented foods are high in glutamate the excitable neurotransmitter. That said - I eat Kimchi daily. My RLS is mostly resolved - from severe to nothing w/iron supplements (why, oh why - who knows?). RLS related insomnia remains.

[Seaux]

Am so glad to hear that iron supplements have worked so well for you. I have RLS related insomnia too but have found that taking 600-1200 mg gabapentin at bedtime helps. Also trazodone 50mg at bedtime helps . It is an atypical antidepressant that does NOT exacerbate RLS but makes you very sleepy.

[TeddiJ]

Wait-but you are taking Gabapentin for RLS?! Are you saying these foods break though your dose of Gabapentin?

[Seaux in reply to TeddiJ]

Yes, unfortunately.

[TeddiJ in reply to Seaux]

Thanks for clarifying...I thought you meant you didn't have to take anything at all if you avoided those foods.

[ircam2112]

It’s been a long time since I’ve been on this site and in seeing this post first, it seems almost providential.

I have no doubts Seaux. I’ll pass on some valuable information here, the totality of which literally took me years of research and trial and error with my diet to finally figure out, around 2007, imh(educated)o, the single most important factor about RLS treatment and it’s management - second in importance to medications. I say this because if everyone knew this information, I absolutely believe that people with RLS would likely have their RLS significantly reduced, require less and fewer medication and medications, feel some real control over their symptoms and, generally suffer much less, as Seaux has found.

It comes down to the amino acid, Glutamate. It is the primary excitatory neurotransmitter in the CNS and is both produced in the brain and derived from foods, usually bound to proteins which slow it’s metabolism into Glutamate for the CNS to use.

When foods are fermented or hydrolyzed however, the glutamate becomes free-glutamate, meaning it is not bound to a protein and is rapidly introduced to the CNS and “free” to stimulate neurons. Fermented, malted, processed foods with hydrolyzed glutamate, MSG or MSG-like compounds also are higher in the right-handed form of glutamate - it is normally found in the left-handed form. From what I recall, this alternate form is hyerexcititory as the body has a more difficult time metabolizing it. The right-handed vs left-handed issue is the same for phenylalanine, another amino acid with the right-handed form being aspartame or brand names like Nutrasweet which is in most diet drinks but others drinks and foods as well.

Hence, like caffeine, antihistamines like Benadryl (diphenhydramine) and anti-nausea medications, foods and drinks high in free-glutamate or aspartame (called excitotoxins), over stimulate neurons and make RLS, PLMD and plms worse. Alcohol is a good example where this is clear. People claim that alcohol makes RLS worse. I don’t think that’s the case. It is what is in the alcoholic beverage that doesn’t get filtered out that makes the RLS worse. First, it’s the non-distilled alcohols like beers, whiskeys, dark rums, liqueurs, flavored alcohols, etc - anything with color or “body” to it has higher glutamate concentrations - vs highly distilled (purified) alcohols like vodka, gin and clear tequila. Next, is the mixers. They are, in my experience, with the exception of quality tonic or soda water, always high in glutamate. The second class doesn’t bother me much, the first class is awful.

Getting back to foods, avoid anything processed. Free-glutamate like MSG is bad enough but in the 80’s and 90’s when MSG got a bad name, food chemists came up with all kinds of substances that mimic MSG or have MSG as part of that ingredient (which in the USA they don’t need to state on labels). Maltodextrin, soy sauce, guar gum, gum Arabic, natural flavors, malted anything, hydrolyzed yeast or hydrolyzed anything, Soy Lechitin (sp?), etc.. There are close to a hundred names. Just google “other names for MSG” and you’ll come across several sites that will list most of them. Next, is just to avoid them as much as possible - especially for me, aspartame - which is difficult but can be done. My rule of thumb is that if it has more than 4 ingredients, it likely has a form of MSG in it. Restaurant foods are saturated with MSG-like substances.

Lastly, there are foods that are naturally high in glutamate and I try to avoid. Tomatoes (esp. stewed), wheat and others - again, I’d suggest googling. One website will tell you how much glutamic acid is in a given food and I use it often - self nutritional data dot com.

Lastly, if you decide to try a low glutamate, or rather, a non-high glutamate diet, it takes patience, time and energy and is good to view as a scale rather than an all-or-nothing process, but I think you’ll notice a difference after a few weeks. It’s good to keep in mind that I’ve found that if I consume a high-glutamate food, symptoms can last 2-4 days afterwards, but symptoms will still be better than your normal than if we continually feed our brains excitatory compounds around the clock. And, it’s no coincidence that GABA (gabapentin and Pregabalin are GABA agonists) is the primary “calming” neurotransmitter in the CNS. Please let me know if you have any questions.

[Seaux in reply to ircam2112]

Thank you so much for your post. Very educational and helpful.