RLS & Back ache

[Carlettejaque]

Please could anyone with RLS tell me if they have any type of back problems, either muscular or spinal. I'm trying to see if there is any connection between the two conditions.

Could it be a nerve problem caused by a back problem?

[Madlegs1]

I have excruciating back pain and in the hips.I have had major spinal surgery - rods and screws and pediment.

I'm certain that my lower back pain is caused by bacteria, but no doctor will prescribe antibiotics for life ( not sure I want to ,anyway!)

I've had RLS since 5 yrs old or more?? (74 now) so I don't think back pain is a cause in my case.

Keep up the research, and let us know how you get on.

Cheers.

[Elffindoe]

Hi, As Madlegs says, it may be that your RLS is entirely unrelated to your back pain.

However, it is possible, that is, if the pain is neuropathic rather than muscular.

Peripheral neuropathy is known to be a factor in RSL and I guess spinal neuropathy could be too.

Spinal neuropathy is commonly caused by nerve compression and also possibly inflammation of the nerves. This can make them more "excitable" in general. RLS is a consequence of over excitable nerves.

Another issue is that of inflammation. It is known that inflammation is a factor in RLS, particularly if it's chronic.

Inflammation can be a associated with spinal neuropathy and back pain. Plus as Madlegs says it may be possiible that a chronic bacterial infection may casue inflammation.

In addition, in your case, this may be a connection between your IBS and your RLS. The link is inflammation.

I'm unsure what the treatment for IBS is, I suspect not an anti-inflammatory agent. In addition an anti-inflammatory is not really feasible for RLS because of their long term effects.

However, you may find a short course of a strong NSAID, say Naproxen may help with both neuropathic back pain AND RLS.

Also note that inflammation can intefere with iron absorption and metabolism and low iron l;evels can cause RLS or make it worse.

What to do?

If you haven't already done so, discuss with your primary doctor what the cause of the back pain might be and if it's suspected to be neuropathic request a MRI scan.

Also discuss the possibility of having a course of a NSAID, say at least a month.

If you currently take no medication other than painkillers for your backpain or RLS OR you only take non-opioid painkillers and/or only a dopamine agonist for your RLS. (pramipexole, ropinirole or rotigotine then ask your doctor about pregabalin or gabepentin. These two are used BOTH for nerve pain AND RLS as they reduce nerve excitability.

They should therefore treat BOTH back pain AND RLS.

If you've not already done so, have you iron levels checked, i.e. serum iron, transferrin saturation,ferritin and haemoglobin.

If all these are OK but ferritin is less than 100, then you coulod benefit from raising it with iron therapy. If it's les than 75 you can start taking an over the counter oral iron supplement.

If you're taking any other meciations for any other health condition, these may be making your RLS worse.

see this link

mayoclinicproceedings.org/a...

[silkyreg]

YES IT CAN!

healthunlocked.com/rlsuk/po...

[Munroist]

I believe I had very occasional RLS from an early age but after some back/spine issues where the discs ended up contacting the nerves my RLS went up a step. I had a year or so of pain with the back and still have odd sensations now although it has stabilised and isn’t really an issue. The RLS increased to the point where I wake every night at least twice and have to get up and move about to be able to get back to sleep. I think the back issues aggravate and excite the nerves as Elffindoe has described above. I’ve also seen quite a few posts from other contributors linking back issues to RLS and the Wikipedia entry and other medical documents often list neuropathy (nerve damage) as a risk factor for RLS. I’m not sure that it can help much other than peace of mind through understanding. I think it’s quite hard to address the nerve excitation although anti anxiety techniques such as meditation, CBT, and careful management of your back issues may be able to reduce your bodies stress and sympathetic nervous response which ought to give some benefit. However if you have RLS it’s probably here to stay and you are just looking at reducing the impact, ideally starting with iron supplementation if needed.

[Carlettejaque in reply to Munroist]

Please read what Silkyreg wrote on here. It does seem there is hope. It would seem that a chiropractor or better still a sports injury massager as they relax muscles, could do wonders. Silkyreg hss hsd greatvsuccess with relsxing the muscles of her back and doing exercises.

[Eryl]

It could be that you're eating too many wheat based products and sugar. Gluten found in wheat can cause IBS and along with sugar can be a powerful inflammatory foods which as Elffindoe has mentioned is often the cause of RLS and other chronic pain.

[Carlettejaque in reply to Eryl]

Hi, Yes, I probably eat too much sugar. I put it in tea because tea with soy milk isn't very nice without it. The only wheat based products I eat are baby rusks. I am intolerant to yeast, dairy, sunflower oil and allergic to dextrose. The rusks are about the only things that don't have any of them. They have lots of vitamins added which is good but they do have sugar. Its surprising how many products have dextrose/dextrin etc and sunflower.

I don't eat processed foods. I cook everything fresh but I am very limited in what I can eat. I can't eat fibre without pain. Can't eat porridge. I live on chicken, carrots, spinach, basmati rice, tinned tomatoes, fish, eggs and the Farleys rusks. That is my diet.

No cakes buns sweets or chocolate etc.

I can't find anything to replace the rusks which I eat for breakfast and have a couple in the evening to soak up acid.

I suffer with acid stomach and reflux.

Any suggestions for a replacement would be great.

[Eryl in reply to Carlettejaque]

The main ingredient of Farleys rusks is highly refined wheat flour and theyare high in sugar and are a processed food so I'd advise against those. Perhaps solving your acid reflux is the key. Take a look at this video which explains the cause and remedy. youtu.be/aBV0THrWHbM(Not working as expected?)

[Carlettejaque in reply to Eryl]

I watched the video. I had heard this before. I tried apple cider vinegar and it made things worse for me. I don't have H pylori. I had a test sample taken from my stomach during a gastroscopy. I have stomach erosion and Duodenitis. As for the rusks yes, I would like to have something different but can't find anything.

[Sillyvester19]

Yes I have had spinal problems one major operation and second time a disc came out and left me with foot drop had rls since

me

[Carlettejaque in reply to Sillyvester19]

I'm so sorry to hear you are suffering and struggling with RLS. It's a nasty condition. It does sound like there is a link between RLS and back problems. Is there anything else that can be done to relieve any pressure on nerves that might be responsible? It might be the muscles in your back have tightened because of surgery. Would it be safe for you to see a good sports injury massager? They might be able to manipulate the muscles relax them and relieve any muscular pressure?You would have to pay for it though. Most charge around £40 for an hour session. Good luck. Stay positive.

[MumofSam]

I’ve had RLS from birth. Didn’t have any back problems until I got a lot older, ie age-related arthritis and have had surgery for spinal stenosis. Still have some crushed vertebrae and a protruding one. Not a factor for me in whether or not I have RLS though.

[Carlettejaque in reply to MumofSam]

Thank you for your reply. Any info adds to my little bit of research.

[Loopylegs]

Hi, I have rls many years, I woke up one morning during the summer this year with a pain in my neck, I thought I had slept funny but it didn't go away, I'm on pramipexole & gabapentin for my rls and it works fine but I thought perhaps this was causing my worsening neck pain which radiates across my shoulders and also in the centre of my spine, whenever suffered with back pain and my doctor said it's not my rls or meds but wear & tear as aim aging, I'm 48, I manage the pain with yoga which helps, if I don't do my stretches when I get up I'll be in pain all day.

[Carlettejaque in reply to Loopylegs]

Thank you for your story. It's very interesting. Have you ever thought of going to see a sports injury massager?

[Loopylegs in reply to Carlettejaque]

Yes, I had a sports massage last wk, quite sore but I'm feeling the benefits today😀 I see you suffer with acid reflux, your diet seems quite good, I wonder have you ever been tested for a gut bacteria called helicobacter pylori? Not sure if I'm spelling it right! But it can cause a lot of digestive problems and a course of antibiotics will treat it and after the antibiotics a course of probiotics can make a huge difference, or like me I used to suffer with reflux until I started taking digestive enzymes to help me break down my food, the lack of sleep caused by rls and the medication we have to take can cause our digestive system huge stress and therefore it's not as efficient at releasing its own enzymes, at the moment I have a pain under my left rib, I'm not sure if it's my stomach or bowel causing the problem ( it could be all the tomatoes that I know don't agree with me but I keep eating them as I grow them in my green house and they're delicious) I think at times I'm my own worst enemy 😂

[Carlettejaque in reply to Loopylegs]

Hi, i had a gastroscopy done a while ago. It showed I had stomach erosion, polyps which they removed and Duodenitis. They did a test for H pylori at the same time. It was negative.My reflux causes me to have a cough. I have just been prescribed Famatodine.

If you are sore after a massage it means whoever did it bruised your muscles. They did it too hard. The chap I go too is brilliant and it feels like bliss! Your muscles should feel relaxed and pain free afterwards.

He cured an upper muscular back problem for me. Now I have to save up to go and get my lower back problem sorted.

[Loopylegs in reply to Carlettejaque]

Sounds uncomfortable, poor you, hope you get the reflux sorted. I must try a less invasive massage!

[Catscratchman]

Hiya, I have a recurrent soft tissue injury in my lower back which is related mostly to 25 years as a nurse (I think) but I also get a regular spasm or sudden tension in the same area which seems to correlate with my RLS. Both are worse when I'm tired and it's more annoying than painful.

[Carlettejaque in reply to Catscratchman]

Thank for your valuable input. My RLS started at the same time that I got a lower muscular back problem. I had already been on max dose of Gabapentin and steroids for an autoimmune condition for 18 months when it started.