Insomnia on Targin?

[Amrob]

Hi, I have tried Targin (also called Targinact) twice now and both times it took me about 4 hours to get to sleep. (I had a similar experience on Tramadol). Has anyone experienced initial insomnia on Targin but found that that insomnia lessens over time?

[Hidden]

I haven't but I do know opiates can cause insomnia.

Give it a while and your body should adjust and the insomnia disappear. Mind you its only takes you 4 hours to get to sleep!

You could also adjust the time you are taking it at. I usually take it around 6 - 8 pm.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

You can look up the side effects of Targinact on drugs.com. One of the side effects of insomnia is listed. You can check which sort of drug it is. Lotte seems to find her drug is ok.

[LotteM]

Yes, I recognise it. And, like raffs said, it was slightly worse in the beginning. And I also took tramadol before I was given Targinact and like you had much trouble sleeping on that one. I now take oxycodon slow release, the 'active' part of Targinact. About once-twice a week I have trouble falling asleep. I lay quietly in bed but just can't fall asleep. After a -long- while, when finally my thoughts start to ruminate, I get out of bed, do some reading or sometimes even watch television to distract my mind and kill some time. Usually after an hour or less I go back to sleep, fall asleep quickly and sleep quite well from then on to the morning.

I agree with raffs, try a little longer, it may settle after a few days. Especially if it works well for the RLS symptoms.

[cdto]

Hi I have only started on Targin less that a week ago as Opiods stopped working as my body became to use to them as I needed 1 every day. I have only good things to say about it. It makes me sleep. Maybe something else you are taking mixed with Targin is the culprit, why you are not sleeping, even though I have woke every hour for years, but I can get back to sleep. Good Luck with it

[Jelbea in reply to cdto]

Dear cdto, I note you say opioids stopped working for you and you now take Targin. Targin is an opioid (oxycodone/naloxone) but perhaps the change may help you. I hope so.

[Hidden]

Another thought:

I too have trouble with insomnia - who'd have thought 4 decades of disrupted sleep and pain would cause such a thing Anyway, what I started to do was to spend my awake time in bed just relaxing enjoying the peace of my body and for a long time even though I might not have slept I was well rested and not wound up from not getting to sleep.

Mind you that got boring so I find now if I can't sleep I get up and do whatever to pass the time. I'll try again later and see if I can sleep, if not I get up again and continue until I do sleep. In saying that I don't work any more so can afford not to get wound up from not sleeping.

[involuntarydancer]

I could not sleep at all when on opioids and it never settled. I have since seen it described as 'opioid induced alertness'. I needed a particularly high dose of opioids for my RLS (30mg of oxycontin per night) and that may have been part of the problem but I had to find an alternative treatment in the end because although being awake without RLS was infinitely less awful than being awake with it, I was still not having any kind of a life. I hope you have a better outcome.

[Amrob in reply to involuntarydancer]

Thanks ID. The starting dose of Targin i was given is only 2.5mg, a very low dose, but even that was enough to cause me some insomnia on the two occasions I took it. (My experience of Tramadol (50mg) was that I didn't sleep at all).

I may give the Targin another go.

[involuntarydancer in reply to Amrob]

We are all different. I think some people find the sleeplessness settles down after a while but it didn't for me. I have seen cannabis (taken as an edible) recommended specifically to counteract opioid induced alerting but it can be hard to access.

[smilingjane in reply to involuntarydancer]

Hi ID

Not sure if you will get this as an old thread 🤔

I am wondering when you came off opiods what you had to help with RL. I note you were on a higher dose. I am on 30 Ms daily but am keen to look at other options as its causing insomnia (I think)

many thanks

Jane

😊

[involuntarydancer in reply to smilingjane]

Hi Jane,

I was first prescribed opioids (oxycontin) back in 2016 about 6 months after discontinuing a high dose of mirapexin. My symptoms were completely out of control - I reckon I developed daws and I had severe rls 24/7 and could not get any sleep. Eventually my GP overruled my sleep consultant (she had me on pregabalin which just wasn't man enough for the job) and prescribed oxycontin. He was (and has been ever since) extremely trusting of the information I supply him and basically prescribes whatever I ask. He gave me as much oxycontin as I needed which turned out to be 30mg daily at that time - is that not the same as you are on?. My understanding is that that is the maximum prescribed dose. I suspect I wouldn't need so much to cover my symptoms now - your rls sounds worse than mine. It was bliss to get the rls under control but I quickly discovered that I could not sleep on oxycontin. I persisted for a while but the difficulty in getting to sleep never improved. It turned out oxy was also causing significant central sleep apnoea in me and I decided to discontinue it.

Sorry, this is a bit of a ramble through my treatment history - I'm feel slightly brain-dead today. What may be of significance to you is that after I stopped oxy I realised that on top of the side effects already identified, it had been causing significant daytime exhaustion and a sort of miserable feeling of not being entirely myself. I have noticed other rls sufferers describing the same symptoms and it often turning out that they are on oxy.

Since then I have been on a treatment odyssey and I forget half of what I tried. I experimented with dipyridamole on the strength of a study which showed some improvement in rls sufferers taking this drug. My GP loves this drug and was delighted when I suggested it. Unfortunately, it didn't eliminate my rls but it helped with some of the symptoms and greatly improved my day time alertness and helped me to feel 'myself' again. I don't take it any more but those improvements have remained. You can find my longer descriptions of it if you put 'dipyridamole' into the search bar.

I tried pregabalin on a couple of occasions (for several months at a time) because I wasn't sure I gave it enough of a chance initially. I went right up to a high dose but it never made much impact on my rls and the side effects were very discouraging.

I discovered kratom (illegal in many European countries but can be ordered from the Netherlands by post). It was the best thing I found by miles. It has a similar impact on my symptoms to oxy by without the side effects. It is much easier to discontinue (I take occasional breaks) and feels a lot less addictive. However, I did also resume a low dose of pramipexole which I realise is right out for many people on here. I did this because I reckon that my dopamine receptors have been permanently damaged by the years I spent on a high dose of this drug and I now require a small dose to function normally.

The combination of pramipexole and kratom affords me the best coverage with the lowest side effects of anything I have tried to date. I am almost normal now and can actually work. I do need to take occasional breaks as the dose of kratom creeps up and sometimes I need a dose of between 15 and 30mg of codeine to top up the other drugs if symptoms are very bad. I never increase the pramipexole from 0.088mg. I think I've been on this system for about 2 years.

However, I would much prefer to rely on a legal drug (kratom was made illegal here a year or two before I started taking it - it breaks my heart to think of it) so recently I got a prescription for buprenorphine (temgesic) from my GP based on the positive experiences of people on here and other rls forums. I haven't started it yet but will post when I do.

I also had an iron infusion a couple of months ago which I think has made me feel slightly better but was not the killer punch it is for some sufferers.

Sorry to go on so long. I had already noticed your posts about feeling worn out and wondered if your oxy dose was contibuting to your chronic fatigue symptoms. It's just that the treatment options are so limited ... I really hope you find something that suits you better. A couple of things I would take from my years of restless experimenting: (1) don't change too many things at once or too quickly; (2) don't stop changing and experimenting just because something is working ok; with rls tweaking is very important and trying new things is also important. I realise you are dealing with a lot of complicating factors so I don't know how much this will help, however. Good luck.

[smilingjane in reply to involuntarydancer]

Involuntarydancer

Thank you so much for going out if your wat to give me your rls history.

It's extremely helpful for me giing forward. I thought you were on a higher oxy dose my mistake. Yes 30 MLS is the highest suggested.

It's interesting that you seem to have sussed what has and hasn't worked for you in the past.

I think my next move with the GP will be Buprenorphine. Because of what other RLs on the forum have posted about it.

I feel a little like a junkie, clockwatching with Oxy. I like the idea of one pill every 24 hours.

I have a supply of Kratom and use it when the O wears off if its not time for a dose. But am keeping it mostly for emergencies. In case the GPs decide to crack down more on opiods, you just never know.

Out if interest are you in the UK? I see you have a great GP who is working in partnership with you.

My GP listens to me but I am not sure what he would say about Bup. I can only ask! He once called it a nasty little drug 😏 I didnt question this as I wasnt at the time knowledgeable about it and wasnt requesting a script change I have only heard positive thingd from two people on this forum.

I will take note of your advice given above. Thank you so much for that. Oxy is working re my RL but I need to find out is causing my CF. I am desperate to get back to work and reclaim my sanity!

The best of luck trying Bup. I am looking forward to hearing how you get on.

😊

[Amrob]

Thanks for all your replies.