Our OT has advised me to consider a Wash & Dry Toilet for my wife who has PSP. We are having a wetroom installed.
We have been told it will help to maintain her dignity initially and aid cleaning and care as she becomes incontinent.
We have looked at Geberit and Closomat (recommended by a Carer) also there are many others base on Japanese tech.
Does anyone have experience of installing and using these and are they effective? I want to try and keep my wife as comfortable as I can. Will they clean her when/if she becomes doubly incontinent? We have been shown chairs had will fit over them and recline if needed.
Does anyone have experience of installing and using these and are they effective? I want to try and keep my wife as comfortable as I can. Will they clean her when/if she becomes doubly incontinent? We have been shown chairs had will fit over them and recline if needed.
Just trying to gain for all of your experience.
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Wombatz
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I got a Bio bidet supreme fitted for my mum’s Toliet earlier this year (based in Kent if you want a company details for fitting) it was cheaper than a full Toliet and works well but here’s the issues for Mum….
She can’t always remember how to use it.
She sometimes positions herself wrong so the water comes out the side on to the floor.
She will still use toilet paper even if she’s washed a dried.
Needs a wider Toliet frame than a standard one., mum struggles to get up sometimes.
When I’ve used it, it can wash front and back, dry both, also has pulse mode for when struggling to go.
The guy who sourced and fitted it for us was recommended by the NHS OT, he said they are used a lot for MND sufferers and are popular.
I know it gets away from the need to use toilet paper which has got to be a help as hand use becomes difficult. I understand the issues of being able to remember how to use it.
As long as that can be overcome it would solve a lot of issues of going to the toilet needs.
What if we get to a stage that she has already soilled herself do you think it would clean her?
I realise this is difficult to say until it happens. Trying to think ahead.
We had the Geberit wash and dry installed when we did the wet room on the recommendation of the OT and it has been worth every penny. It has a sensor system to flush and easy to use. The shower chair goes easily over it. It definitely helped maintain my husband’s dignity especially when we had carers. We had the OT involved during the installation and she was able to advise with the position to allow room to manoeuvre the shower chair. The bathroom fitter installed it for us. Hope this helps.
We have seen the Geberit which way did you find best to operate it I think there is a remote control and a sensor that works on moving your hand over it?Thanks.
I know it gets away from the need to use toilet paper which has got to be a help as hand use becomes difficult. I understand the issues of being able to remember how to use it.
As long as that can be overcome it would solve a lot of issues of going to the toilet needs.
What if we get to a stage that she has already soilled herself do you think it would clean her?
I realise this is difficult to say until it happens. Trying to think ahead.
Hi, we used the sensor and there is no need to touch anything. Just a wave near it. Even if they need help to flush eventually , it’s more dignified for them. If necessary, just wait for the water to fill and repeat the process. My husband would normally be put on the toilet by the carers before his shower in the morning. He was simply wheeled on the shower chair from the bedroom to toilet then to the shower area. Yes, it will clean her even if she has soiled herself. Also the added bonus is that there is an extractor fan to take away unpleasant smells. You can get someone to come to your house to give you a demonstration before you purchase the unit. Hope that helps.
Hi Wombbatz, we had a Closomat (OT rec) installed for our wet room. I wanted it to maintain my wife's dignity like you. We could close the door and leave her on her own. She sat on a shower/comod wheel chair (did not recline) with the comod attachments removed so it slid over he closomat. She operated it with an air pad. She pressed and held it so to wash until the water turned cold. By releasing, the water shut off and the warm air drier turned on (the engineers can adjust the water and air temperatures). All I did was to check she was clean & dry. Because the chair did not go back far enough for the standard wash nozzle position when it cane out, we had an extended nozzle referred to as a "Mat 1" fitted. As time went on it did not wash and dry completely due to my wife switching on too soon and times she had difficulty passing stools. PSP brings its problems that no mechanical device solves completely. There is a monthly contract charge for an annual service. Though my wife is no longer with us I opted not to get rid of tbe closomat so I am paying the monthly charge of £19.50. Who knows when it may be required again. I did not compare this model with any other so advise you seek opinions before making a decision. I provided the carers with white face flannels (I had 9) for washing and drying underneath. The one today for drying, if clean, became the one for wahing tomorrow (dried it on a radiator). After showering she sat on a white hand towel while the carers dried her (we had 12 of these for the house any way). This was a final check if she was clean. Being white they were all easily bleached. My wife has a facial skin infection for which I had eight colored face flannels - a fresh one each day for wahing her face. All my very best wishes as there is so much to consider in all aspects of caring for our PSP warriors.
We have installed what was described as a "heated bidet seat" over a high level toilet. My husband likes to use it and it goes a long way (but not all the way) towards his independence on the toilet. When we travel this becomes very noticeable and we miss this solution.I think my husband's overweight does not help ie the water and air doesn't get quite where it needs to go so he still needs some help.
I have not tried it myself however I think for a female it is much more helpful.
To answer your question about cleaning up after soiling - no, the wash dry toilet we have does not help at all in that situation, I need to use wash mitts (luckily these incidents are not frequent for us).
We would still keep the solution we have and perhaps eventually replace with one of the options others have mentioned here - my husband refuses to use a commode so even with some shortcomings the bidet seat makes a big difference.
Hi Wombatz, if already soiled, it did clean but not completely the further out the soiling went. I would get her to stand when she could, to remove the pad and clean her bottom where she would sit. When she could no longer stand I would get her to lean forward and carefully loosen the pad tabs at the front pulling the pad, folding inwards as I pulled it out at the back. Sometimes she was not washed out to the extremeties. Such situations were mostly first thing in the morning (having lain in the soiling for a while) when the carers came in and she had her shower inmediatly after. If it happened during the day I had the option of wheeling her over to the shower if the carers were not in. Regarding the shower - make sure you get an extended hose fitted as it makes it easier to manoeuvre the shower head where you want it. I really do not know how I would have managed without the wet room and the auto wash facility. Managed yes, but it still took a lot of concentration to ensure my wife was not stressed. Discuss with the OT the best positioning for hand rails as your wife will need to grab them to stand up out of her chair in the early stages for her shower. The washbasin should be low for a wheelchair occupant and so should be the mirror - make sure this is tall enough for your use too.
We bought a R Flory FDB300 model bidet toilet seat from Amazon - relatively cheap. It was easy to install - a friend attached the water to the toilet flush and we had electricity nearby (safely). My wife has used it for nearly 3 years and has maintained her dignity. For the past year we have pushed the buttons for her as she no longer has the use of that hand - but that is still allowing dignity to her. It works really well for regular use, but it would not clean you if you were bowel incontinent as it does not wash the whole bottom.
Generally I think these bidets are really good and we all ought to use them and stop flushing paper into the loo!
Bidets / bidet seats are helpful for people who can still sit on the toilet, and in addition could clean up well after discrete dry stool in a diaper, but don’t expect the focused water flow to clean up a large sticky mess done in the diaper, which tends to spread around and get stuck in a woman’s more complex topography. For that, many personal care non flushable wet wipes, gloves, a plastic bag-lined rubbish bin, and a patient unflappable attitude are needed. Bidets are helpful in freshening up between showers, which may become less frequent as mobility decreases.
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