Quick Question

[Holrico]

Does anyone recommend Cancer Treatment Centers of America for Prostate care?

[Tall_Allen]

I think you should focus on specific doctors rather than institutions. This may help:prostatecancer.news/2017/12...

Judging by your previous posts, you were monitoring PSA post-prostatectomy. What is his PSA? If it is undetectable, no action is required at this time. If it isn't he should meet with a local RO.

[Holrico in reply to Tall_Allen]

We (I had to wait in the car and talk through the phone) met with an RO (Jerry Lucas) who wants him to start hormone therapy soon (about a month before adjuvant radiation) his first PSA will be in the first couple days of January and that would be 2 months post-op. He said with all his factors he didn’t want to wait as he had extensive seminal vesicle involvement, positive surgical margins and prostatic extension. He also said expect to be impotent after radiation even though he isn’t now. So I guess we just want to make sure we find someone who is very good and who treats him like a man, not like some slab of meat to hurry and get him in and out.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Holrico]

Unless there were positive lymph nodes, he can wait for his 3-month PSA. What was his pre-treatment PSA? He should have a bone scan/CT.

[Holrico in reply to Tall_Allen]

His PSA was 6.9 which prompted the visit to the Urologist. It had more than doubled in 6 months, it was 2.9 previously. His father had Prostate Cancer in his 50’s I believe and the genome test said it was pretty aggressive. His bone and CT scans were clean. We don’t want to rush into anything but we also want to be prepared to get going. I have requested an appointment with Mayo here in Phoenix and plan on calling them again tomorrow (sent his records on Tuesday) I have looked at lots of RO’s but no one has really jumped out as far as people saying this person is great, he’s the best. My husband still works full time so travel to far is pretty limited. He worked through his last cancer treatments as well (35 radiation treatments with 7 chemo treatments that lasted 7 hours each). He is a very positive person and a big fighter. He fought head and neck cancer in 2015 and next month will be 5 years cancer free at least head and neck wise. I just want the best and am struggling finding who that seems to be here, which is why I asked about Cancer Treatment Centers of America as I know that is all they deal with is cancer. I do really appreciate the link you provided and your advice, you seem to be extremely knowledgeable.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Holrico]

There is no "best" when it comes to salvage radiation. There are a lot of ROs who do it very well. It involves daily treatments for at least 5 weeks (and up to 9 weeks), so nearby is better. I'm sure Mayo Phoenix has some ROs who can do a good job for him, if treatment is required. But you gain nothing by jumping the gun. A recent clinical trial showed that the results were exactly the same whether one gets treated immediately or waits for the first PSA.

[Holrico in reply to Tall_Allen]

Do you know where I can look up that study as the RO we saw last week was quoting an old study that said waiting was worse. I would very much like to be armed with the knowledge next time? Thank you very much for your advice, it is much appreciated!

[Tall_Allen in reply to Holrico]

Sure! Here's an article about it:prostatecancer.news/2019/09...

[Holrico in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thank you!

[Hidden in reply to Tall_Allen]

Highly recommend Dr. Bryce - head of oncology - at Mayo Phoenix.

[Holrico in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for the recommendation!

[fluffyfur in reply to Holrico]

My hubs had all of what you mention. The positive margins, the prostatic extension, etc. and he did not need hormone therapy and waited a year before starting adjuvant radiation. Did he have positive lymph nodes? Whatever you do, I strongly recommend getting a second opinion and then formulating your plan.

[Holrico in reply to fluffyfur]

Thank you, he did not have any positive lymph nodes so that was good, I think they took 17. I am trying to get him into Mayo out here, however being a former CTCA patient we just kind of wondered if there was anyone that had actually went there for Prostate Cancer, didn’t expect the strange turn this post took. I thank you for your response I appreciate it, just want to do what is best for my husband as I’m sure you understand.

[cesces]

Personally, I found them to be quite predatory. It seemed they were only interested in insurance plans they could suck dry.

So that makes anyone on Medicare a less than ideal patient for them.

I would stick to major medical centers of excellence.

If you are an investor looking for a financial center of excellence, yeah sure, invest in them. And it would be a two/fer if you are a Trumper and want to help support a major Trump contributor.

[Hidden in reply to cesces]

Your divisive political rhetoric not wanted here. Take it elsewhere.

[cesces in reply to Hidden]

Shame shame shame

Hate and anger are off topic. I am trying to help someone with a serious issue. And you? You are spamming this thread with off topic hate and anger.

Please take your hate and anger someplace where it is welcomed. Try the good folks at parler.

Or at a minimum spare others here and private message me with your spite.

Thank you

[Hidden in reply to cesces]

Me the hater? You are the one disparaging those whose political views you disagree with. I'm just calling you out. No place for hateful politics on this forum. Keep it to yourself or go elsewhere with it.

[cesces in reply to Hidden]

Dear wsopeddie

Please Take your off topic and creepy conversation to private messaging please.

I will be pleased to respond to you there about such off topic matters.

Thank you

[Holrico]

My husband had Head and Neck cancer at the base of his tongue in 2015 and he went to CTCA in Goodyear/Phoenix. They were great for his last Cancer and it felt like they actually cared. So much has changed in the health care industry since he has his treatments there, I just want the best for my husband. I would really just like for cancer to leave my loved ones alone! I lost my mother to brain cancer when she was 46, over 20 years ago.

[cesces]

They all run off the same template.

In my case I had already received the big bucks treatment and was looking for follow up care.

It was so clear that unless you were a prospect for expensive treatment, they just weren't interested.

Rational I guess. Contemptible none the less. I am certain it's highly profitable.

But what happens when you cease being a high margin patient?

[cesces]

Good point.

Though I suspect they probably brag about their business model to their investors.

And they probably do a good job of providing written training materials to their intake people on how to qualify prospects.

And I don't think they hold themselves out to be equivalent to medical centers of excellence such as MD Anderson, Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins, Mayo, or UCLA.

And if you have a rich insurance plan and want supplemental alternative medical treatments. They are the place to go. I am highly confident you will get a lot of highly personalized attentive care, as long as your money holds out.

And if you want to support fellow Trump contributors and supporters, why not get your cancer treatment from them, and your pillows from that pillow guy.

The owner of American Cancer centers is not shy about his support for Mr. Trump. And for many it is a badge of honor and a reason to patronize his establishment.

And in fact they want high margin patients, and don't want unprofitable ones. Unlike many hospitals they are a for profit business and are run like one. I am pretty certain they are proud of that.

##########

Here would be an interesting experiment. Call your local Cancer Centers of America, tell them you're on Medicare with no supplemental insurance, you have had your major treatment behind you, and you just want to schedule an annual follow up with one of their oncologists.

And report back and tell us how that went. Whether or not you succeed in making that appointment.

Then try that with the largest local hospital in your nearest metropolitan area.

Let's see what happens.

[Holrico in reply to cesces]

Just thought I would let you know that when I called Mayo about follow up care they told me they don’t follow up care. So not really sure why you are here bashing any place. I just asked about CTCA for Prostate cancer care as it was a place we had already been and where we treated with kindness and compassion. Like I said I just wanted an opinion as to Prostate cancer and what is best for my husband. If you think any hospital doesn’t look at it’s patients based on the almighty dollar you are kidding yourself, I still want what is best for my husband. You almost make me sorry for asking.

[cesces in reply to Holrico]

Experiences may vary.

Being told up front what they do and don't do is a good thing.

That is not how my interaction felt. It was not the "kindness and compassion" you experienced.

I felt I was being sized up for how profitable a patient I was going to be. I guess there is nothing wrong with that.

But I didn't like it one bit. And it was not the experience that you or thier tv add describe. That is what caused me to do my research on them.

If you had personal experience with them, why didn't you mention that and why did you come here to ask about them.

What were you hoping to learn that you didn't already know?

If you weren't interested in hearing about certain things from a different perspective, why did you ask a question inviting such feedback????

Interesting.

So may I assume you were only seeking positive input to reaffirm your prior decision?

Or was there some doubt about your experience that you were seeking to assuage or affirm?

If so may I ask what that doubt might have related to as you asked the question?

If it was not about their customer service, what feedback were you seeking?

Thank you

[Holrico in reply to cesces]

I want him to have the best for his current cancer. Our experience was a different form so I wanted to know if anyone had any experience with there treatment for PROSTATE cancer, which was my question. Thank you for making this experience pretty crappy when just asking for a simple question.

[Hidden in reply to cesces]

"And if you want to support fellow Trump contributors and supporters, why not get your cancer treatment from them ....The owner of American Cancer centers is not shy about his support for Mr. Trump. And for many it is a badge of honor and a reason to patronize his establishment."

There you go again with the politics. You going to call me a hater again for confronting you on it? You are projecting your own anger. You obviously hate Trump, his followers and CTCA.

Moderator ... what say you?

[cesces in reply to Hidden]

WSOPeddie

Please do us all the favor in ceasing to spam this thread and to instead private message your personal rage to me outside of the view of others.

I will pleased to respond to you in private.

Thank you in advance for your kind compliance with this request.

[Holrico]

Thank I truly appreciate it. I am very happy for your wife to be 18 years clear! Many blessings to you and yours!

[cesanon]

I have been giving some thought to this. Here is my thoughtful response to the question: "Does anyone recommend Cancer Treatment Centers of America for Prostate care?"

From my research and limited experience, my conjecture is that Cancer Centers of America is optimized around:

(a) delivering emotionally satisfying ("kindness and compassion") medical care (as they promise to prospective patients in their advertising), and

(b) maximizing billing to and payment from insurance policies (as I expect they must promise to their investors)

I suspect they are good at doing both.

And I guess, so long as the Repubs are not successful at overturning Obamacare, coverage caps will remain illegal. So why should any individual patient care whether Cancer Centers of America is good or bad at (b). Probably you shouldn't. At least as an individual patient.

Obamacare is still under vigorous attack by Repubs and Repub attorney generals. And they will continue to receive assistance from a second term President Trump if he is successful in upsetting the election of President Elect Biden (some consider these efforts to constitute sedition but others appear to consider it a necessary evolution of our democratic Republic, people seem to be split on this issue).

If the Repubs do manage to overturn Obamacare, that I think would change the calculus for individual patients.

For almost all policies annual and lifetime coverage caps would promptly reinstated.

That means you would want to avoid having rapacious providers run out those caps. In such a case, before selecting Cancer Treatment Centers of America, or any other provider for that matter, you would want to have a serious sit down with them regarding costs and billing practices.

Inadvertently running out your lifetime cap could be a life and death matter. Especially if you run it out on one form of cancer then get a second type of cancer a few years later.

There remains the issue of quality of care.

That as Tall_Allen points out is to a large extent determined by the individual physician.

I would hazard a guess that generally the best physicians are attracted to practice in the major academic medical centers of excellence. Such as for example MD Anderson, Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins, Mayo, or UCLA. And perhaps not so much at providers such as Cancer Treatment Centers of America.

On the other hand, many people are expressing their political opinions with their health practices recently. Such as intentionally engaging in certain types of health practices such as knowingly attending superspreader events and proudly crowding together without masking. Who knew?

For those of the Trumpian persuasion, the founder of Cancer Treatment Centers of America is a prominent Trump supporter. So regardless of whether or not they provide world-class cancer treatment, that one variable might commend them to choose Cancer Treatment Centers of America over other providers, even major academic medical centers of excellence.

If those values are important to you, why would you not choose Cancer Treatment Centers of America?

I welcome any thoughtful fact-based and logic-based commentary on any flaws to my thinking.

I would also be interested to know of any high-quality prostate cancer specialists at Cancer Treatment Centers of America with whom anyone has any experience.

Especially any who are actively involved in publishing in peer-reviewed journals. While evidence of publishing and being a thought leader in one's chosen profession are not necessary indicators of high levels of clinical competence and outcomes, I prefer to see that in my providers whenever possible. And I have a personal prejudice in favor of physicians practicing at teaching hospitals. But then again that's just my personal preference. Milage may vary.

I think I covered the major factors that might go into choosing Cancer Treatment Centers of America over other providers. Did I miss any?

Thank you

PS: I don't think anyone should ever assume that the quality of a provider's marketing agency has any correlation with the outcomes that the provider generates. I can't think of any reason, can you?