Perinatal mental health team support

Hi my names Leanne. I've been suffering with postnatal depression for the last seven months and finally seem to have got the combination of anti depressants right however I am having real problems with my local perinatal mental health team which is really hindering my progress. Has anyone else had a similar problem with theres?

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  • Hi Leanne

    I'm so pleased you're on the road to recovery after struggling for so long . Equally I'm sorry you're struggling with the mh team. What sort of difficulties are you facing?

    My experience of PNI goes back a decade however even then I found the services to have been inadequate. For instance there was an excellent cpn who specialised in PNI but I couldn't access her one to one care as I was in a slightly different catchment area but I was able to attend a course she ran. I also had to wait 2 yrs for counselling .X

  • I have been seeing a perinatal psychologist and a perinatal CPN, however the CPN has said her case load now dictates that she doesn't have time to see me so would have to refer me on to another CPN and therefore it is probably best if I am just signed off back to the GP. The GP isn't happy about this and has sent a letter to them but have to wait to hear the outcome. In the meantime the psychologist has decided that after initially saying she could treat me that she thinks it is now adjustment disorder caused by the birth and wants to refer me on to someone else meaning another 4 month with no help. What I have found frustrating is that this is based on a discussion with the CPN (to cut a long story short I saw the CPN on the Monday and was very distraught, saw psychologist on the Wed who was happy with my progesss and happy to start treatment on the following Monday - she did a full assessment and decided it was what I needed and then on the Thursday I left a message for my CPN to book in for the following week but the secretary relayed my message incorrectly to the CPN and told her I had an awful meeting with the psychologist (I didn't say this!) and therefore the psychologist and CPN talked and decided they were getting mixed messages and it would be best though refer me on for a diffferent disorder. I am totally confused how they can come to this decision without even talking to me about it!

    The Dr isn't happy with this either as she is concerned that after having weekly support I have know been left with nothing. The psychologist agreed to see me to discuss it with me in more detail as I don't agree with her but has cancelled the appointment twice so it has been 5 weeks since she told me this and I haven't even had an opportunity to delve further.

    Having a nightmare basically! X

  • What a nightmare for you! It sounds like you're being passed from pillar to post which is not on and no help to you .

    On the plus side the gp sounds fab and is fighting your corner so hopefully she can make something happen . Perhaps request to speak to a manager next time or threaten them with a complaint ? X

  • Yeah the health visitor said to put in a complaint but I'm just thinking it's not really going to get me the treatment so what is the point. Saw the dr again today and she was great. Sent a letter telling them the situation and she showed it me and it was fab. It's just the waiting that I hate, a week is a lifetime when you feel like this and it has been 5 weeks now since I've had any real professional support which I'm really struggling with. Sometimes I feel so low I don't really think I can get through another day let alone 2 weeks!x

  • It's worth putting in a complaint as often it makes managers sort out the issue promptly.

    Really ur dr is fab. It's positive you have her support . Yes two weeks can feel like forever try to take each day as it comes.

    Unfortunately it's v common to have to wait for the help you need now. You're not deemed bad enough to access immediate services but you know yourself that u need more help. It was the same for me.

    Hopefully even if u have to wait a little while the meds will be kicking in properly so you'll be feeling betterx

  • Hopefully! Unfortunately it is the lead psychologist I was seeing so I'm assuming she is the manager?! What does make you wonder is four weeks ago after I left a session she called the crisis team and asked them to do an emergency assessment as she believed I was a danger to myself and so they assign me a CPN and then four weeks later cut everything!x

  • That doesn't sound like s consistent approach at all. It's worth complaining as that lead psychologist will have a manager also. The nhs have complaints procedures in place too so have to address them.

    I'm sure all this doesn't help recovery! How are you doing?

  • No it's not helping at all. If anything i think it has made me feel worse. Mainly because I feel like my only hope of recovery has been taken away so feeling like there is no way forward from this really. Can't see any way out.

    I'm also finding that I'm questioning why they have done it a lot. The CPN said at one point she cherry picks her ladies as she is senior so I feel that after her seeing me twice and then saying she can't see me anymore so can either pass me onto another CPN or discharge me she just doesn't want to help me and nor does the psychologist. They want to help other people though just not me and that is really affecting me. I spend a lot of time going over it and blaming myself and punishing myself about it and why they don't want to help me. I was so distraught in that last meeting and they let me leave without even checking I was going to be ok - usually when I have not been in a good place previously they have wanted to know I will keep myself safe upon leaving - this last time didn't even bother asking.

    What makes it even harder is I have never previously had any mental health issues, in fact have never really been someone who is ill or had any need to use the NHS. I am a really private person so it has taken me a lot to get to the stage where I can actually participate fully in the psychology sessions. The psychologist was fully aware of this as my midwife at the time who supported me initially and referred me to psychology made her very aware of this and she has always been understanding in this regard.

    None of it makes much sense to be honest and I am finding it very very difficult. Night times are the worst. I'm not sleeping. Most days I get so overwhelmed I feel like I can't go on any longer feeling like this. No real plan for how there is going to be any improvement. Finding it all really hard at the moment and still almost 2 weeks until I have the meeting with the psychologist and gave any answers. At the moment the thought of staying like this for another 2 weeks is unbearable.

    Sorry for the long post! X

  • Hi

    Don't apologise for the long post at all. It's important you get things off your chest and there is a lot going on.

    Try to take a step back. Yes, you have been treated unprofessionally, without any consistency and clarity which clearly has hampered recovery.

    From what you've written I imagine the way you've been treated has little to do with you as an individual and more to a chain of miscommunication which has led the cpn, psychologist to think you no longer fit their criteria. Their budgets are so constrained and patient list overwhelming that I imagine from a budgetary perspective it's only a good thing to get someone off their books .

    The fact remains that you need support, which is backed up by your gp. I think that getting someone not involved directly to review your complaint which you've written so succinctly here, would only be positive and hopefully would allow you to re enter the system. I certainly can see what's happened.

    I completely understand why you may take this personally as there doesn't seem to be any justifiable clinical reason why they've discharged you. However, I think different people have got the wrong end of the stick ( a bit like Chinese whispers) and it's led to this.

    I'm sure at some point things will be resolved. Would you consider and are you in a position to pay privately for counselling/psychologist ? Perhaps talk this over with dr if it's an option? Also some charities provide a reduced fee counselling service (like Mind I think).

    In The meantime perhaps try not to think about this especially in the evenings before bed / read a book do a bit of yoga t help with breathing (you tube is great). This is a temporary blip albeit a horrible one. Up to now things had been improving and they will. Most importantly keep talking x

  • The psychologist is seeing me to discuss it on 21st December so may wait until after then to put in a complaint do you think and see what happens when I discuss it with her then? The only worrying thing is she has already cancelled and rescheduled this appointment twice so it is whether it actually happens. I have started making notes so I remember everything which I want to discuss with her and this is some of the problem with my sleep. I wake in the night and think of things I need to speak to her about when I go and end up getting up to jot them down so I don't forget them in the morning. everything just seems so much more unbearable in the evening and at night and I suppose the lack of sleep isn't helping. I do keep meaning to try reading but struggle to have the get up and go to actually do it.

    Not in an ideal situation to pay for private treatment at the moment with being on maternity but could potentially get a loan to pay back once im back at work as I am on a good wage when I am working so wouldn't be totally unaffordable. Just seems frustrating to have to get into debt for something I am currently having but which has been taken away.

    I just don't think I can cope if I go on 21st and they refuse to help. I don't even know if I can cope until 21st to be honest. It's just such an unbearable way to feel all of the time. X

  • Hi could someone go with you on the 21st? It's going to feel stressful and at these times it's easy to simply not be able to focus on everything that is said. This is when someone who is with toucan help. There is an advocacy service for nhs issues - maybe get in touch with them? Perhaps also speak to gp for advice?

    Outline all your concerns as you have done in here and how this has made you feel and how you feel you still need help. You're very organised and systematic so apologies if this is your intention anyway.

    You're quite right you certainly should not get into debt over a service you should be receiving anyway. Maybe if u can see how it goes on 21st. You have so much on your mind no wonder you can't sleep. Try and factor 15 mins every evening to chill out however you please. Make this a priority as hopefully once it becomes routine it'll help you relax.

  • Potetially. I'm become quite good friends with the midwife who supported me postnatally and referred me to psychology so she might be able to come with me depending on work commitments. I am also seeing the GP the day before the appointment so will discuss it more with her then.

    To be honest my head is so all over the place I don't feel very organised!! I'm finding it very hard to process anything at the moment.

    I guess I just feel like I've pushed everyone away and feeling very alone but nothing I can do about it for the next couple of weeks I guess x

  • Hi

    How r u? You've not pushed anyone away and it's awful that the hcp incompetence has made you feel this way.

    Great news that the midwife will help you (hopefully) . You might feel all over the place but your thought processes are completely coherent and systematic.

    Hang on in therex

  • Hey. Struggling on! I am really trying. Particularly with Christmas coming up though I am finding it hard. I just feel really vulnerable that they have left me this way but nothing I can really do about it for now. All I keep thinking is still over a week to go until I see the psychologist again. Last night I couldn't sleep for thInking about it so ended up sat up at 1 in the morning writing notes for when I see her. Keep thinking I can't last another week but then I suppose I said that a month ago and have managed. I just keep thinking that if they won't continue to treat me on 21st my only hope for getting out of this has gone and I've got nothing x

  • I really have pushed people away because they have decided not to help me when before they were happy to help and get me through it and they help other women, just not me x

  • It's all falling apart now!x

  • No you've not pushed anyone away. You're a mum who's struggling and due to poor communication on the part of several different health care practitioners they've got your story mixed up. It's not right and it's not professional. Please don't blame yourself. I'm sure if it was me in your shoes you would say to me it's my fault - you'd be kind to me and you have to treat yourself in the same way. Big hugs - you're doing the best you can and that is well in difficult circumstances.

    Try not think about all the time until your appt - take each day as it comes - you will get through it x

  • The problem is it just gets worse as the discharge paperwork was sent to the GP from the CPN which I received in the post yesterday. In it the CPN says she observed some concerning behaviour and I made many phone calls to her very distressed - both my husband and my midwife agree I made very few calls to her when she mentioned that before - only three in the time (none of them were returned so she could only be able to go by what her secretary said and I certainly wasn't upset on the phone, not to a secretary). The only other time she called me when the crisis team contacted her.

    She then goes on to say that the psychologist has agreed to see me regularly until the appointment for psychotherapy comes through - again untrue as what was actually offered was she said she would be prepared to see me once a month to keep an eye on me until the appointment for psychotherapy came through in four months but would.be making no real effort to try and treat me. I wouldn't even say that was regular when previously I had been seeing her every week. This was the document sent to my GP and so she will have received that yesterday and read it and thought I have got things wrong and actually they are dealing with it ok. The psychologist is obviously believing her about the many phone calls which appears to be some of the reason she feels the need for the more intense long term treatment and as they are colleagues she is hardly going to believe me over her with regards to the many phone calls. I'm fighting a losing battle with all of them as everything I say is being twisted and now the dr will think there is nothing to fight my corner on. At the moment I just don't really see there is any point in continuing with any of them if everything I say is going to be misconstrued. I'm just not getting anywhere with them and I'm fighting a losing battle.

    To make matters worse i am feeling so so sick from the dose increase I'm beginning to wonder why I'm bothering with any of it. Without any proper support I just feel what the Drs appointments and tablets and psychology apps Are all pointless but then equally if I don't bother I feel like this forever. I feel like I'm just stuck in a lose lose situation with them

  • Hugs. All this uncertainty and miscommunication is such a huge source of stress for you understandably. I think it would be best to sit down face to face to iron out all these issues - which should never have occurred.

    I know it's so stressful and you feel like there is no point atm - but hang on in there as getting better is so worth it. You will get better and hopefully you can get back on track with your treatment x

  • How are you Leanne? X

  • Finding it really hard. Really struggling with sleep which I don't think is helping my mood. Just struggling to process everything I think - psychology a week today so just keep thinking I still have a week to go (if she doesn't cancel it like she has the last 2) and at the end of that I might be even worse off if she refuses to change her mind - the discharge letter from the CPN seems to imply she doesn't intend to change her mind. Not due to see the GP until Tuesday for my review and whilst she was fighting my corner before, the discharge letter she will have received says the discharge from the CPN was a mutual decision between me and her and that psychology intend to see me regularly (once a month which is not regular) so she probably thinks she has no issue to take up with psychology now! I did ask psychology if I could be seen more often than once a month but she said no point if they were discharging me - prior to this 4 week break where she keeps cancelling I have seen her every week since my referral went through. I just feel so alone with it all and I think after next week I'll feel even more alone!x

  • She thinks my reactions are too extreme which is why I need long term psychotherapy but I don't see how she can say that when I have no prior history of any problems despite holding down a stressful job and other events such as my husband being in an accident etc which could all have flared something up if I had an underlying issue. This has literally come out of the blue for me. I don't see why extreme reactions are so unusual to her - by this she just means how upset I get sometimes when talking to her. Surely that's normal?!xxx

  • Having any sort of counselling is stressful . At the end of the talking about painful issues is going to be upsetting though you often need to go through that process to move on. I had counselling 2 years after I fell with PNI and was nearly recovered. I wailed through the sessions which surprised me as I thought I was largely ok. I would say you're reaction was normal.

    Atm there is little you can do. Try to do things that take your mind off what's happened. I know this easier said than done but perhaps say to yourself ' I'm not going to think about appt for an hour then give yourself 5 mins to dwell on it. Do something nice - is there anything you enjoy are interested in?

    You're clearly a very intelligent lady and have noted inconsistencies in what has been said about you. Have a plan what you want to discuss with dr - then try to give yourself breathing space to unwindx

  • There are things I enjoy doing but they just don't seem to take my mind off it. I have tried. I don't seem to be able to not think about it at all. The health visitor called today for an update and I told her the rescheduled appointment with the psychologist had been cancelled and re scheduled again and she was just as perplexed. She said she understands why I feel like it's my fault but that I shouldn't think like that but because no one can give an alternative reason I can't help but think like that. None of the professionals helping can give me an answer as to why it's happened and that's what is driving me crazy. Im worried that because they just keep saying they don't know why it's happened that perinatal team will just refuse to treat me and I'll have no where left to go.x

  • Because if they don't know what's happened what else can they do! Once she says no they will leave me to it and I'll be on my own with it x

  • What I don't understand is that they were the ones who involved the crisis team because they believed I was a danger to myself and I have tried so so hard to battle against all the thoughts and urges I was having and I feel like as I'm battling against it they are just knocking me back down again and are suddenly now happy to leave me with no support almost like as opposed to the other week they now don't really care what I do to myself x

  • Hope you don't mind me messaging you. I'm just finding things very difficult at the moment. How did you manage to cope on a day to day basis and get through the days?x

  • Not at all - sorry I have popped in here it's just been a manic few days with no time to post.

    I didn't manage very well at all! However what did seem to help was not to focus on the future just break the day down into chunks and live in the present and just think about the next chunk . It's more manageable that way. If u dwell into the future and the what ifs that can be a huge source of stress in itself.

    Managing the stress is an art form. It is really worth trying to find and practising relaxation techniques . I can give I few suggestions if u like. I attended a brilliant pnd course and at the end of each session the nurse would spend 20 mins teaching different techniques .

    Also distracting yourself from the constant worrying. How could u try that.

    I know it's so tough atm feeling as if you've been cast aside and potentially left to struggle alone.

  • Is the midwife going with you to the meeting ?

  • I'm not sure yet I haven't asked her. I keep meaning to and then feel needy for asking her so don't bother. I was hoping my mum would be able to watch my son and she can't which is difficult as I'm going to have to take him with me which I'm worried will distract me so I don't concentrate but I don't have much choice. I can't reschedule it for the new year as I need to know where I stand with it all.

    I really am trying not to focus on the what ifs but I find I can't help myself. For some reason on Thursday night I suddenly just felt really scared of it all - of how I feel and the potential of having no help and it really overwhelmed me. Since then I haven't been able to shake that scared feeling.

    stress techniques would be fab as I know I'm not doing very well at stopping myself dwelling on things and I'm definitely a nightmare for thinking into the future and then I just get overwhelmed by it all and feel like I can't cope anymore.

  • It's that feeling of being overwhelmed that's so horrible.

    You tube has lots of mindfulness techniques so check those out. Focus on things around you visually - look at contours of objects, colours etc. It's actually quite hard to do but will practise can help you focus on the here and now.

    Breathing techniques can be good. Lie down placing your hands on your stomach. Breathe slowly and deeply through your stomach focusing in your breath.

    Also tense up your muscles for 5 secs and slowly release .

    Last night I watched some tango videos on you tube - the distraction is good. Cross words , sudoku etc can take ur mind off the stress .

    Perhaps write down all the points for the meeting especially if u go alone . Is the meeting in weds ? X

  • It really is awful. It just makes me feel like I can't cope with it anymore and then when I get like that I feel like I almost drop to rock bottom in seconds. Have literally had a sick feeling in my stomach for days now.

    Thanks for the tips. When you say you used to break the day into chunks do you mean just literally stopping yourself thinking ahead? I find I just keep thinking about it anyway even if I try really hard not to.

    Yeah meeting is on Wednesday afternoon. I have written down some points to discuss with her. Seeing GP again Tuesday for medication review (they won't give me more than 2 weeks tablets at a time as they have classed me as a suicide risk) and will discuss with her the discharge letter I was copied into from the perinatal team - I'm just hoping she doesn't read it and believe them as there is a lot in there that isn't factually true.

    How long did it take before you found the lows were more infrequent than the highs? I'm just finding that despite the tablets being increased to almost the highest dose I still feel so low sometimes I can't bear it. x

  • I just don't really feel like there is a way out of this at the moment. None of them are going to help me and I just feel like as long as I'm alive I'm going to feel like this forever! Maybe I'll feel better after Wednesday but if it doesn't go the way I want I have all of Christmas to get through with the knowledge that basically I have no more support to get me

    Through this.

  • Hi

    The way you feel atm is typical of PNI. It's like there's a dark cloud hanging over you without anyway out. This won't be how it will be. You've hit a bad blip due to being messed about by the psychologist cpn which has made everything worse.

    Everyone is different recovery wise . I had a brilliant first month after meds kicked in then huge dip then ups and down which kind of characterise PNI. Others find that very slowly you have good moments amongst the bad and they improve in time.

    It is hard to bat away the thoughts and very draining but keep plugging away and don't give upx

  • I know, it's just so hard though isn't it. I do just feel like giving up. Especially when no one wants to help me. Even my husband said to me today I'm just miserable all of the time. I just think what's the point in it all. As soon as I have a good moment I can drop down in seconds for no obvious reason and I'm not getting anywhere at all. If anything I'm worse off than I was before because no one wants to help fix this anymore x

  • I've just had enough of it all now.x

  • Did you feel more positive before the psychologist and cpn started messing you about. This kind of thing can hugely get you down. It does make you feel rejected and like a lost cause which is not true at all. Had you not had PNI this kind of scenario would be upsetting but with PNI it goes so much deeper as you are vulnerable .

    Really be kind to yourself because you're worth it x

  • Yeah I did. Don't get me wrong I had serious lows but generally felt like I was finally getting somewhere. Now they just don't want to know. It's got to be personal to me because they help other women, it's just me they don't want to see anymore. The CPN was happy to see me before she met me - the psychologist got her involved so she knew how often she needed to see me and things and now all of a sudden they have a discussion and neither of them want to work with me. I'm just rreally not sure I can do it anymore. It's all too much and she's already cancelled twice so what's to say she won't cancel again before it even gets to Wednesday. I just really don't think i can cope with it anymore, it's too hard and it's not even like things will get better because if they won't help me nothing's going to change is it. It's just all too much and I just think why am I actually carrying on like this x

  • This has knocked you for six and triggered this really low mood and anxiety. I'm hoping the meeting goes ahead in weds and the outcome is positive. Don't lose hope! However, even if it doesn't there are always alternatives sources of help so it's not the end of the road by any means x

  • Not without going back on waiting lists again though. I can't feel like this for any longer I really can't. If they don't want to know no one else is going to help. Everything is just a mess and I can't bear it. I just can't get through Monday and Tuesday I really can't x

  • You can and you will ! Big hugs. Keep talking x

  • How are you Leanne? X

  • Struggling - feeling anxious about the appointment tomorrow. My midwife friend hasn't been very forthcoming with text replies when I have text her so haven't bothered asking her to come with me. I have probably annoyed her and pushed her away like I did the psychologist and CPN.

    Got the Drs this morning so will see if she had any luck as she was writing to psychology to chase a response to her last letter which was basically asking them to review my treatment plan and consider seeing me again x

  • Good luck with Drs . You haven't pushed anyone away . It's probably more a case of being busy with Xmas etc. Let me know how you get on x

  • So the dr has written back to the CPN to tell them she isn't happy I have been discharged and asking that a new CPN pick it up. Other than that it's a case of waiting until after the appointment tomorrow. She called the psychology department at the hospital to check and it's still on for tomorrow so fingers crossed she won't cancel. Booked in to review with the dr again in the new year x

  • Sounds like your gps appt went well and she's on your side. Great news! Good luck for tomozx

  • Yeah she really is great. She said I need to go in there and just take control of the meeting. She also thought an advocate at the meetIng would be ideal but hopefully I'll have the strength to hold it together x

  • You know what to say. Go in there and be confident! X

  • How did your appt go?

  • Really really well. Went shopping after and just got back and I can't stop smiling about it! She said when she read my email I sent after the appointment she said she felt frustrated as that's the person she can work with. She knows I've struggled with the psychology aspect and said she understand that. She said the psychotherapy thing was suggested because she understood my mood was about the feeding issues she had and she couldn't understand why I was so upset about that but after going through the birth and things today when I was feelIng more able to talk she said she thinks it is a hormonal response and the bad birth triggered issues which were then made worse by my feeding issues. She said let's start afresh and I'm starting treatment next week with her. She said really I needed to go to psychiatry because when I was referred I was too unwell for psychology but I wouldn't agree to the referral because I just had bad connotations of the term psychiatry and I just got paranoid they thought I was mad. X

  • The only thing she did say was that she thought that because it was a hormonal thing there is a high chance I will get it if I get pregnant again which I have always been worried about - particularly feeling concerned about how the birth might go after the problems this time but she said a note would be made so as soon as I got pregnant I would be referred to psychiatry and put on anti depressants from the third trimester to try and prevent it happening agaIn and I would be noted as vulnerable so that a full birth plan would be put into place to try and prevent it happening again as far as possible so that made me feel better about that x

  • Well done! So pleased for you. You should be so proud of yourself . I hope this really kick starts your recovery. Well done again.

    Re future cross that bridge when you get to it but I know many ladies who have taken antids during pregnancy. It sounds like a robust plan will be put in place and you won't be left to struggle in your own X

  • Thank you. I really am pleased. For the first time tonight I feel like I've really actually made progress from where I was 6 months ago and now I'll be seeing the psychologist every other week she is positive that within a couple of months things should have really improved. Plus I was so anxious about future children it almost put me off having any more as I was worried I would spend the whole 9 months terrrified this would happen again so it's really comforting to know that if I do I, everything will be controlled to try and make it a positive experience. I can't remember the last time I felt this positive about the future!xx

  • How are you Leanne? Hope the positivity has continued! X

  • Not too bad thank you. Yesterday was quite hard as it was a bit of a come down from how happy I was on Wednesday but I suppose to be expected as it was never going to magically get better overnight. I think I was just so relieved on Wednesday I felt so much better and then dipped again yesterday. I am trying really hard to stay focused though and remind myself I will have ups and downs. I feel scared about if I will have another low and when that will be because they are just so awful but I know I can't live like that x

  • You'll get through the blips. Yes they're tough but in time they get less intense, less frequent and you learn to manage them better. You've also got support in place now - onwards and upwards all the way!

  • I hope so because the blips scare me! I worry that it will always hang over me until I'm totally better the worry of having a bad day or a bad moment and almost feel like I need to protect myself from anything which may make me dip but I'm not really sure if that's a good idea as I can't avoid things forever! I feel like anything to do with babies sets me off! I went to see a friends newborn the other week and had a real low! Xx

  • It feels like the blips will be there forever but they won't. Also the dread of them is normal. Often they feel worse after a good spell but I promise you they will fade.

    It's normal that babies can bring on a whole host of unwanted emotions - envy , jealousy, pain, regret. I think I almost grieved for the happy seemingly carefree motherhood I'd missed out on. Try to look forwards - when you have another baby if that's what you want, you will be prepared, you will know yourself better and there will be a care package in place so if , and don't forget you may not fall ill, you need help and support its there.

    PNI was hell on earth for me as it has been for you. I'd never suffered from any mental health issues before so was clueless as to how horrific it could be. However, it has actually changed me for the better. I really have insight into how truly debilitating life can be for some people, am far more empathetic, pick up on signs when people are struggle and know myself better. Also through the site I've had the privilege of meeting the most amazing ladies. My point is good will come out of all of this. Merry Christmas to you! You're one amazing lady x

  • Yeah it would be nice if some good comes out of it I suppose. I do feel so jealous sometimes when I see new mums and think about what I couldn't do and what I missed out on. I dwell on things all of the time - it's like I almost want to punish myself and then when I make myself feel low it's like it reinforces how unbearable everything is. Merry Christmas to you. I hope you have a lovely one. You deserve it, you have been so kind to me xxx

  • I'm finding today really hard and dreading tomorrow even more!x

  • How did Christmas go? I would have replied yesterday but didn't receive notifications that you'd posted ?? Odd.

    Anyway I hope your day was really great and the dread subsided. Xmas and any 'special' day can be really tough even if you don't expect it to be. There's an expectation it'll be marvellous but the stress plus often women find themselves comparing it to xmases when they've felt happier , more relaxed and generally not in the nightmare that is PNI . But it really does get better in time.

    I had a lovely quiet Xmas - in my old age that's perfect! X

  • You mentioned how you punish yourself for the thoughts - this is very common . Many ladies have described the thoughts as 'punishment thoughts' it's a common PNI symptom/reaction so you're not alone x

  • The day time wasn't too bad as I was so busy but I found the evening really hard. Every time I see something about newborn babies anywhere I just feel so unsettled and sad. It's stupid because everything turned out ok so I don't know why I dwell on the past. I'm just getting so frustrated with how I feel now. I just want to feel normal again. I received a letter Xmas eve from the psychology department which was a letter to the dr I was sent a copy of talking about how the meeting went and that they are going to continue treatment me for now and will review again in 6 weeks. The letter did make reference to why they didn't want to treat me before which was apparently due to frustrations on both sides and so they obviously felt frustrated by me.xx

  • Don't be silly about not coming back yesterday, you should be enjoying your day! Glad you had a good one. Ours was fairly quiet just busy x

  • I literally spend all day dreading my next low which is so stupid but I can't stop myself

  • I'm finding it really difficult to deal with my feelings and get my head around them. I'm finding that whereas before I just felt constantly very low, now my mood has improved I'm just struggling to get my head around and deal with the feelings and thoughts I'm having x

  • Hi there

    You've had a taster of feeling better so it's normal to feel frustrated and impatient as you just to be recovered. Also after a good spell dips can feel doubly hard so it's also no wonder you're dreading the next one.

    On The plus side, you are firmly on the road to recovery and you're illness is at the next stage. I found this too. It has its challenges and is tough but try and focus on the positives of this. Use distraction techniques, treats to lift you when you're low and anxious. Honestly in time blips will become easierx

  • Yeah I do think I need to work harder at taking my mind off things rather than just allowing myself to dwell on how I feel. I find it really hard not to just let myself sink and I feel so alone when I'm feeling like that and I know it's silly because I do have people supporting me, I just feel so alone with HOw I feel. I have my first proper appointment with psychology tomorrow after everything that happened so I'm hoping each session will make a lot more of a difference to me now I'm feeling stronger and more able to deal with things. Especially being able to talk through my thoughts and why things worked out the way they did x

  • Hey don't be hard on yourself if u struggle to distract yourself. It's a skill that has to be learned and sometimes it's just too difficult to do. I'm 10 yrs post PNI and there are plenty of times when my rational brain says stop! But my emotional part just can't do it .

    I'm sure the psychology sessions will help figure it all out and put you on track . Good luck for tomoz x

  • Had my next appointment today and it went well actually. We went through both of my readmittances and the specific hot points which she think aggravated my symptoms. She said the care received from the midwives she believes was substandard and didn't help things at all. I actually found it really easy to open up to her this time. Easier than I have before. I felt physically sick when I was talking about one of my readmittances though and very anxious. I also got upset which annoyed me as she has made it clear if I become unstable again she isn't prepared to wOrk with me. I didn't get really upset though, just a bit when I was talking about the things I find difficult. Next time she is going to go through the hot points and start the actual trAuma treatment.only problem is she is only seeing me every other week now so I have to wait 2 weeks to go any further. It's such a slow progress and when I over think things and have a low it's like a real pain deep in me as it's such a raw sadness. I know I need to find the strength to get over it and get through the hard times but I just don't seem to be able to do it. I feel so useless.

  • It is hugely frustrating when all you want is to be well and not plagued by thoughts and doubts - there is nothing unreasonable in that.

    Counselling is hard - but you sound ready to confront the issues that are plaguing you and move forward - that's brilliant. Whilst it's frustrating you have to wait 2 weeks between appts maybe the time will be good to kind of reasses what you go through . Try to do other things - go out arrange to meet friends as you need to 'forget' about it and give yourself that breathing space.

    You should really be proud of your progress and determination both of which are so difficult to find X

  • That's a good way to look at it as giving me a break between sessions. Yesterday's was an hour and a half and I did find there was a lot to take in and I'm still processing a lot of it now I think. I just really struggle to switch off and stop thinking about everything and over analysing it. I lay in bed thinking about it, whilst I'm driving and even when I'm in the shower and it would just be nice to have 5 minutes where I don't think about it. Nothing I've tried so far works.x

  • I'm also finding being so tired all of the time from disturbed sleep doesn't help my resolve to fight my demons but I'm just struggling too much with the sleep. When I saw the psychologist yesterday she said it was the most tired she had seen me. GP's tried one anti-psychotic drug which was meant to help with my anxieties and sleep but it made me so drowsy I stopped taking it after a couple of days as I was struggling to look after my little boy whilst on them. They are reluctant to give me sleeping tablets but haven't offered anything else

  • Tiredness is the root of all evil! I've got insomnia atm and I feel like a zombie so much of the time.

    Have you tried exercise? That's teally good at burning off the nervous energy . Or yoga?

  • I know, sometimes I think I'm going to crack up im so tired. Do you find you still suffer from the symptoms or are you back to your normal self? I'm worried I'm never going to feel how I did before. I did start doing some exercise but haven't done any for a few weeks with xmas and things. Going to try and get back into it in the new year. When I did exercise before though I found it did help my mood but didn't stop the thoughts. Nothing seems to switch them off. I don't think it helps that other than my husband and the professionals no one knows I am suffering with this so I have to spend most of my life putting on an act and I don't really have anyone else to talk to about it which means I keep a lot in. I'm my own worst enemy x

  • I would say I'm 10 yrs recovered. I did recover completely and I would say the only real legacy of PNI is pmt. i had another child post PNI and didn't get PNI. I'm a bit hormonal atm but I think I'm perimenopausal so possibly that accounts for my mood swings.

    I know it feels like nothing will change but it does sound as if youve been progressing even though it might be at a slow pace. All this mix up with Drs has triggered a nasty blip but you will come out of it.

    It's very draining putting on a brave face when inside you feel one you're crumbling . Maybe consider telling some friends how you are you don't have to go into details.

    Happy New Year my lovely - 2017 will be goodx

  • Ah that's really reassuring to know you never suffered the first time around. The psychologist said that because she feels the depression is biological and separate to the trauma that I'm at a much higher risk of suffering next time which did make me feel a bit anxious so it's nice to know that may not be the case.

    My Nan passed away this morning who I was very close to which has knocked me slightly. It's frustrating because I was doing so well the last couple of days. I was going to visit last night and didn't because I didn't feel like it and now feel really guilty that I didn't go. I know there's nothing I can do about it now but just wish I didn't have to be tested quite so much when I'm trying so hard to be strong as it is.

    Happy new year to you too. Thank you so much for your support this last few weeks. It really has made all the difference having someone to talk to who understands what I'm going through.xx

  • Oh Leanne I'm so sorry about your nan. Please don't feel guilty - you weren't to know she would pass away. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

    You've had to suffer the pain of so many deaths recently - please look after yourself and really go out your way to be kind to yourself . You are such a wonderful and strong lady - I don't think you really how much of s trooper you are but that's so evident to me.

    Thank you for your kind words. I'm so happy and feel privileged I can help you. I hope you have a nice evening even though I'm sure it's going to be hard but in time I hope you can smile and remember your nan without the sadness you may feel tonight x

  • I know. I just think with feeling unwell I haven't been there for her as much as I should have been and I'm never going to get that back again now.

    I am trying really hard to stay strong and battle on but I just feel like every time I try to really make steps forward something is there to try and knock me back.

    Hope you had a lovely new year! I still manage to have woken up with a horrendous headache despite not really drinking! X

  • Hope the day picked up for you. Recovery would be so much easier without setbacks . Sometimes just don't fight whatever you're feeling - just go with the flow. Having fight in you is fantastic but can be exhausting and sometimes you just expend too much energy keeping it up.

    You're doing so well honestly x

  • Yeah fighting is bad I suppose. I have been a nightmare with that - I have fought everything from th start - wouldn't let the midwife refer me to psychology when she recognised the symptoms and suggested I be referred. I wouldn't then go to the dr when they recommended it and then I went but wouldn't agree to take antidepressants. I totally refused a CPN for months and only finally saw one because the psychologist said I was too vulnerable and wouldn't continue to see me unless I agreed to one and so eventually met one in a psychology appointment with the psychologist present. I never saw a psychiatrist as I totally refused and in the end the psychologist had a meeting with her to review my notes without me present. She said to me I've frustrated the process last time I saw her and that I'm my own worst enemy but I just can't stop fighting everything even if it isn't in my best interests to do so - I can't just relax and go with the flow!xx

  • It's very hard to accept what's going on at times. I too resisted medication for several months as I wasn't a nutter! Can you believe it? I think I didn't understand PNI and didn't want to admit I had a mental illness as it made me feel like a failure. Also on a daily basis internally we fight PNI- the feelings of depression, doubt anxiety and try so hard to stay positive but sometimes you just can't. And there's nothing wrong in letting go and just accepting it's a rubbish few daysx

  • That's exactly how I felt. Every time the midwife suggested the referral I would just say no I'm not mad. I couldn't get my head around it and never thought it would ever be something I used. When I eventually agreed and they tried to triage me to psychiatry I got the phone call and totally freaked as I thought that definitely meant they thought I was mad. The antidepressants I kept the prescription for a week before getting it filled and then waited another week before I eventually plucked up the courage. I wish it was normalised as I think I would have saved myself a lot of extra stress at the start. No one even mentioned postnatal depression to me until I was already suffering quite strongly and no one picked up on it when I was initially teary. When the midwife did eventually when my little boy was 3 weeks old I insisted it was the baby blues as there was no way I could be suffering with postnatal depression. She used to spend ages explaining why she didn't think it could be baby blues but had to be so tactile as if the word postnatal depression was used I would freak out. Even when I eventually saw the Dr I still refused to believe it was and said as much despite me completing their questionnaires and them telling me they thought I did. Has slowed down my recovery but when I'm better I want to be able to help make the help be more easily accessed by people. I found so many problems with the NHS trust here.

    Really struggling again tonight. Trying hard to stay focused but feeling all over the place x

  • How's today been? Evenings can be tough especially now it's winter cold and dark. Try a few mins of yoga ? I know when you're in that stressed mood it can be so hard to focus.

    The main thing is that you've accepted help even if you were resistant initially. It's bloody hard sometimes but you did it and that's something to b v proud of x

  • Today has been really tough. I didn't sleep at all in the night so knew I wouldn't be in a great frame of mind when I woke up and I did wake up feeling really low and anxious. Just kept thinking what a bad mum I was and what a disadvantage my son has been at having me as a mum with the mood I've been in. I was having a day in but decided I should get out and did go out for a coffee and a quick wander around the shops. Having problems with work too - have been getting paid late, did a return to work day but found it too hard to do anymore after as they harassed me constantly after, gave clients my personal email address and constantly sent me emails and texts about wOrk and when I would next be in. I haven't been paid (should have been on Friday) but to be honest didn't have the strength to bother querying it so hadn't and then today work called, I ignored it and they left an answer machine message saying they needed my assistance on files and that to be frank if I didn't help get the files billed he wouldn't be able to pay me. I messaged back saying I couldn't come in as timing wasn't good and explained my Nan had passed away. I then said I needed my pay to live Off so had to have It. He ignored my text and hasn't paid me either. Don't feel like I can really cope with this at the moment!x

  • You're a great mum and your son is lucking to be blessed with a mother who loves him so much. Doubt and guilt are all part of PNI but non PNI mums feel the same at times especially when tired.

    You've got a lot on your plate. Your employer can behave the way he is withholding pay (not as far as I know). Keep all messages etc. I know the last thing you need atm is a dispute with your employer but it's worth gathering evidence in case it comes to it. Can you get someone to help you? Your partner /family? Big hugs - I hope today is betterx

  • No I know he can't do it and he does too. I'm a Solicitor but obviously my boss is too so he knows he is being naughty but trying his luck! Only problem is I really need the pay. Things have gone from bad to worse - My little boy had a sky high temp and was struggling to breathe so was admitted into hospital last night. We have been allowed home this morning but I'm shattered from lack of sleep, he's still really poorly and on top of everything else it's just making life a little too hard to cope with!x

  • What a bastard! Sorry but it makes me so mad he's behaving this way he knows better without excuses !

    Your poor little boy - it's horrid seeing them so unwell. Wishing him a speedy recovery and I hope you get rest too. This time of year is horrible for bugs and viruses. How is he now and how are you? X

  • No I know. It's frustrating me big time - especially because I don't need it at the moment - I just want to be paid. Feeling absolutely drained. Just feeling like life is too much to cope with at the moment as there is too much going on for me. Little one doing much better - back to his usual happy self, it's just his bad chest now and no voice - which is a nightmare as I can't hear him crying!! Hoping I get some sleep tonight though as I got none last night!x

  • How did you sleep last night ? How is your son? No doubt tiredness has played a huge role in how you feel so hoping you had a better night.

    Re boss can you point out to him (in writing) he can't withhold payment? X

  • I didn't sleep well at all but he's doing a little better thanks. Still off his food and sleeping a lot on and off in the day but not at night. Definitely an improvement today over yesterday though! I'm going to have to send an email to my boss I think but just struggling to get my head together to do it.

    Still haven't heard from him today and no money in from him. Had my check up at the Drs today and they have increased my Sertraline to 200mg. The dr had received a letter from the psychologist setting out the result of our meeting and that she was going to give it 6 sessions to see I made enough progress and then review but that if I became unstable or there was any crisis in that time I would be moved on and she wasn't happy about it. She said it was as if they were saying if I'm a good girl and don't do anything to cause trouble they will treat me but if anything happens I will be referred off xxx

  • How's your little man? How are you?

    The psychologist's letter does sound a little odd - what would warrant passing you on to someone else? Anyway hopefully all will be well and you'll get the support you need.

    Any news on pay? Yes do get in touch with boss if you canx

  • He's not too bad thank you. Still off food and very sleepy today but a little bit more himself when he is awake. We have had some smiles - still very bad chest so don't want to venture out with him yet - only problem is being cooped up with him probably isn't helping me too much.

    She thinks my depression is too severe and therefore long term psychotherapy would be better - I don't agree as I feel all my symptoms are post natal and that's why she has said now my mood is more stable with the anti-depressants she will do 6 sessions and then re assess but that is dependant on me staying stable all of the time. I have to go with it and hope she's continues to see me but just get anxious every time I have a low in case I go too unstable again and worry like when I got upset in last weeks session that she would say that was me being unstable and not treat me.

    Apparently He is going to pay me today but I'll see if any materialises x

  • Pleased your son is in the mend. It's hard seeing the los ill. There are so many bugs/viruses about.

    Good news in the pay front - hopefully !

    You sound better than you were so hopefully you'll not have any lows during the 6 sessions. But then it puts a lot of pressure on you to be well and you might hide how you really are? Saying that try to tell it how it is - you'll get the most or of it that way .

    Hope the day goes well x

  • Yeah I do definitely feel like I've improved so I'm hoping I will be absolutely fine. I just feel like it's added pressure I don't need to have the threat of being kicked out of the perinatal team at any moment and that it might be a distraction to my recovery. Not much I can do about it I suppose though xx

  • How's the weekend going? Is your son well on the way to recovery? Did you get paid ?

    I can see why the tone of that letter feels like added pressure to be well but you're in a better place now so itll boost your recovery. When is the appt? X

  • Yeah it's not going too badly - had a knock in my car today. Mine is fine but the other persons is going to need to go through the insurance ( I swear I've had enough of this year!!!). Little man is on the mend though luckily.

    Appointment is on Tuesday so hoping after I've completed the first trauma session I will notice a real difference. X

  • Oh no! Hope you're ok - yes it's something you could have done well without.

    Did you get paid? I hope so as its one less thing to worry about. Good luck for tomorrow - hope it's a positive sessionx

  • Yes luckily I got paid on Friday so that's one of my problems sorted. Fingers crossed for tomorrow. Feel anxious after this trauma session has been postponed so many times but looking forward in a way to having it and movingly forwards.

    I saw the health visitor today and she pointed out that everything that's happened the last week or so would have totally knocked me off and sent me into a spiral a few weeks ago whereas it's hard but I am getting on wiTh it.xxx

  • I so agree with your health visitor. Losing someone close is bound to be painful and with PNI can really make you struggle combined with not being paid, your son being ill . You've coped amazingly through it all.

    How did the therapy go? X

  • Thank you. After telling the psychologist about my 2 weeks today she was really impressed with how I coped and said I should feel proud of how I've handled things so I do feel better about it. I guess I just have to accept that I am going to have low times in life as I did before and how everyone does but remembering that doesn't mean I need to be scared it's all going to come back again.

    Therapy went ok. She went through one of the 'hotspots' as she calls it with me and we talked about how I felt about the breastfeeding struggles I experienced. We went through it step by step to try and alter the memory I have so it's not as upsetting and I have to practice that now every day on my own to imbed the new memory. She did say I may find it hard and if I do I just need to tell her when I go in 2 weeks and she will work on it again. If not she will just go through another one with me until she has covered each event. X

  • Hi

    Sounds like a really positive session. Did you try the techniques yesterday? How did it go?

    BF especially if it doesn't go according to plan can be so tough for many women. Feel free to talk about it if it helps x

  • Yeah I tried it last night in bed (it has to be when I'm totally undistracted so that seemed like the best place but I fell asleep before I finished it - she did say it doesn't necessarily matter if I fall asleep because falling asleep with a good memory may help me get better sleep she said but if I keep falling asleep i may pick a different time to do it.

    Keen to fix my lack of sleep because she said she is concerned that I am looking more and more tired each time I see her and if it's not improved by next time she is going to look at introducing sleeping tablets every few days to give me a few nights rest. She won't agree to me having a regular prescription of them because she said it's too much of a risk in case I use them to overdose - I'm not in that place now but they still don't appear to trust me with them!

    I think breastfeeding has been a major part of my issues really. I used it as a massive way of punishing myself and still find now that it affects how I wean him in that I refuse to ever give him pouches even when it's totally inconvenient to cook from scratchy like when we were on holiday.x

  • Falling asleep sounds like a good thing! I might have to try that! What's happening with your sleep? What type of pattern do you have? I'd be interested to hear as mine is awful. I don't know if I said but I think I may be perimenopausal (missed/late periods, up and down moods, insomnia ). In my case I fall asleep ok but wake during the night and struggle to get back to sleep straight away. Due to lack of sleep I've been extra ratty, completely zombie fied and look like something out a horror film !

    It does sound like your punishing yourself (unnecessarily I hasten to add) for the PNI, BF issues. Us mums are so hard on ourselves. I ran myself into the ground trying to be this perfect mum, housewife etc. And felt like such a failure when I could keep up this ridiculous lifestyle.

    You are a fantastic mum whether you BF or not, whether you buy ready cooked meals or not and to be a great mum you need to look after yourself that includes making guilt free time for yourself! X

  • With sleep I tend to struggle to get off in the first place and then when I eventually do I wake and then cannot get back off for an hour or so and that happens throughout the night. I'm assuming from the psychologists comment that I'm not looking too great thanks to it either! It could be menopause as my friend is going through the menopause and she is really struggling with sleep.

    I do punish myself and one side of me knows it's silly to do so but then the other half of me just feels like a bad mum for the fact I ended up giving up the bf and going to formula. I used to say it was like giving him McDonald's every day giving him formula - I'm not quite that bad anymore but I do feel like I let him down with the feeding. X

  • Really don't punish yourself about the BF. Many kids incl me were pure bottle fed babies and have been fine. It certainly doesn't define you as a good/bad parent and for some BF can be so unbearably difficult for a plethora of reasons when the best option is to switch to formula. Glad you're believing that now.

    Have you tried lavender oil? I find (generally!) that helps. Hope last night night was better x

  • Yeah getting there with it. Just always wonder how I could have made it work and what I should have tried harder to do but nothing much I can do about it now!

    Funny enough a friend got me a champneys sleep kit for xmas which has a lavender pillow spray and lavender temple balm and I must say that is doing a lot but just not getting as much as I should xxx

  • I'm sure you did all you could and that shows how committed you were. I've got three sons and BF with no1 and 3 was a nightmare. No 2 was fine but as soon as he got the taste for formula he no longer wanted b milk.

    Hope tonight's betterx

  • Thanks. Struggling tonight. My son fell off the bed earlier. I literally only had him on there for 5 minutes and turned my back and he rolled around and off. He was absolutely fine but I feel so awful. My husband went mad at me. It happened the other week too and he can't believe I was so stupid as to let it happen again. I feel like the worst mum in the world and like he deserves better than me. Just finding it hard x

  • It's easily done and happened to mine. You're not alone and no it doesn't make you a bad mum at all. I've shut the boot of the car on the fingers of all my 3 kids! Can you believe it? Every parent will have a similar story I guarantee it. The main thing is that your sons fine. You're a great mumx

  • I don't feel like a great mum though. I feel absolutely awful about it! I shouldn't have let it happen. Just can't stop punishing myself about it!x

  • So do you think I'm an awful mum for letting child roll off the bed or trapping all my kids' fingers in the car boot? Or giving them jars? Or letting them watch telly so I can have a little bit of piece and quiet ?

    I bet you don't at all. No one is perfect . Everyone's concentration lapses, or gets distracted, or forgets. Try to think of the positives you do do for your son - you feed, clothe, comfort play with him and show him lots of affection - they're the things that make you a fantastic mumx

  • I know I just feel like he doesn't deserve to have me as a mum. He deserves someone much better x

  • How are you? You're an amazing mum and the best your son could hope to have.

    Do you have any weekend plans ? Have you tried the techniques the psychologist suggested? If so how is it going?x

  • I'm really not the best he could have. He could and should have a lot better. Lots of babies have such amazing bonds with their mum but I don't think he even notices me as anything different to anyone else.

    No plans today but supposed to be going to visit one of my old friends from university tomorrow who's due to have a baby soon. I've been doing the homework every day like she said to but it's difficult to do because I feel so anxious when I think back to it and get tempted to rush through what happened to get through it. It doesn't seem to be doing much at the moment.x

  • That's not true at all. Your son Sounds like a confident little baby who might not show as much attachment to you as other babes do to their mums but that certainly does not mean it's not there. You are the main focus of his life - he's known you from the moment you were born - smell, voice, touch and are everything g to him and he's lucky to have you - believe me.

    Enjoy tomoz with your friend.

    dont get too stressed about the techniques not working - obviously it's going to be anxiety provoking thinking about difficult events. Also it takes time to desensitise yourself to them as well as for these to start working. I'm sure the therapist can advise you on Tues (I think!)x

  • No it's 2 weeks until I see her now. I used to see her weekly but when she has started seeing me again after initially not wanting to she just sees me every 2 weeks. I find that wait quite hard with how I'm struggling at the moment. Two weeks seems like such an age to wait between appointments when I feel unsettled like this x

  • Yes I can imagine time seems to go slowly when waiting for next appt. I used to feel this way too especially when I almost felt desperate to make progress. Recovery is hard work so do allow yourself time for you to unwind, do something nice for yourself. Even if you don't really feel up to it try to ring fence some 'me' time - you deserve it and need it.

    I'm sorry if I've asked already , but prior to baby did you have interests or hobbies? Perhaps that's something you could think about x

  • Yeah I always feel like I'm just stuck in a rut until a session and then I make a bit of progress but then have to wait another 2 weeks for the next one so it just feels like the progress is so slow and I'm just getting no where.

    Saw a comment someone put on a local mums group on Facebook today about breastfeeding and one woman said that bottle feeding is just giving your child the bare minimum and now I feel absolutely devastated all over again that I didn't give him the best I could. I feel like it's a guilt I'm never going to get over! Whenever I make progress it's never long until something knocks me down and I don't really know how I'm ever going to escape it. Sometimes I just really find it hard to escape the feeling of not wanting to be here anymore especially when everything is conspiring against me x

  • Comments like that woman's really make me angry as they are categorically untrue and can cause so much damage (not to mention arrogant!) I could go on and on! Us mums put enough pressure on ourselves without having other mums making some of us feel guilty and like we've failed.

    What was your BF experience? I think you do what's best at the time - it's devastating to mums who desperately want to BF but can't for many reasons. Your baby will thrive on formula. You need build up your confidence as a mum - it will come in time I promise you - then comments such as those on FB really won't bother you x

  • I had real trouble breastfeeding but was desperate to do it - I paid for private breastfeeding counsellors and all sorts and eventually a fab midwife helped me latch him on properly on day 14. Before that we had constant problems with his latch and his weight. After I got the latch right we had about three days of it working and then suddenly he started screaming all of the time, constantly feeding and I didn't know what to do. I took him to clinic and was told he had lost a bit of weight again and to feed him more but I knew I was feeding him as much as he wanted so I called my midwife the next day who saw us, noticed I looked septic and after some tests I was admitted into hospital for sepsis and put on antibiotic drips. The Drs said the sepsis had affected my milk quality so it wasn't giving him what he needed so I was to keep bf and then top him up with formula. I did this but sometimes was too sick to do a feed so my hubbie would just give a full formula feed. My last couple of days in hospital his latch was worse and worse until eventually the morning I was being discharged he wouldn't latch at all. I was in tears and the midwife said they wouldn't discharge me unless I had a feeding plan so I eventually gave in and said I would express and formula feed so I could get home. I did and never got over it but I was never in a place to deal with it!x

  • I applaud you for the effort you put into BF. You did everything you could in very difficult circumstances and tbh I don't think I could have persevered for as long as you did. Instead of beating yourself up about how you couldn't bf, try to view that from a different angle. I think you should give yourself credit for the BF you did and be proud of your determination all for your son.

    With BF sometimes it gets to a point where you just have to be objective and say enough is enough. That can be quite difficult to do and of course very disappointing and upsetting. Your health is also very important too and you have to take care of yourself something mums in general are not so good at.

    How are you today? X

  • Not too bad. ThT facebook row really set me back somewhat, it got quite nasty and personal about bottle feeding and how bad it is for children. I just feel such an intense guilt about it and can't shake it.

    I am trying though, I got up and about today as I knew I would struggle staying in. Didn't sleep at all last night constantly rereading that Facebook post x

  • Hi

    How are you? Please come off FB if necessary. These untrue and spiteful comments from horrible competitive and judgmental women are having an effect on you at this time when you're vulnerable . You will move past this and in time and with confidence will see these nasty comments for what they are.

    Did you sleep better last night? X

  • Not great but trying to put it to the back of my mind. Another awful nights sleep and I can feel the anxiety it is causing but trying to ignore it and keep busy where I can. It's just so hard though isn't it! I feel like it's exhausting trying to muddle through and sometimes seems easier to just give up x

  • Sleep deprivation is horrendous and the root of all evil! I hope tonight's better. Perhaps have a bath with s book?

    Yes fighting the negativity of PNI is draining. There's nothing wrong with 'giving in to it' from time to time,, having a cry and just letting those feelings flow. Tomorrow is a new day! X

  • Yeah I've been trying not to but I did have a cry today. It all just got too much. I know I shouldn't read comments on fb but it's like I want to and I want to punish myself because I deserve to be punished for not doing it right and no mater how much I try to ignore it the need to punish myself overrides it. I hate myself for the way I did things and I can't change that xx

  • It's almost 2 in the morning and I cannot sleep. I just feel like I can't hold it together anymore and like I'm drowning in everything and it's all just too much. I just don't know what to do anymore, life is too much like this x

  • Insomnia is just awful and your worst thoughts gather at night and it can feel so overwhelming. I hope you got to sleep in the end.

    Perhaps today write a list of your problems /worries if you think that might help. I find listing these things can give them perspective otherwise my brain can feel like a washing machine with a million non specific things churning around x

  • Really struggled. Managed to get a couple of hours but not much. Was an awful night. My main thought is just that I need to be punished for not breastfeeding him and being a bad mum. I think I feel like if I punish myself enough eventually i will feel better for what happened because I will feel I have been punished for it if that makes sense.x

  • I just want to be punished and get what I deserve x

  • Try thinking of it from an opposite perspective. Congratulate yourself for trying so hard to BF, because you did everything you could to do it. It was sheer bad luck you couldn't carry on due to the sepsis which is a serious condition for you. Everyone this punishment thought pops into your head just think the opposite even if you don't believe it yet.

    I think you've retrained your thought processes so that every negative event has become your fault. You need to relearn this pattern. Try to set aside just 5 mins a day and say or write good things about yourself. They may even appear simple - I ate all my breakfast, I went for a walk, I played with baby, I had a laugh with hubby.

    By punishing yourself for everything you're just main yourself feel worse. Being so down on yourself is so common for ladies with PNI . I used to hate myself . In time I learnt not to and I even like and admire myself . You have to relearn to see what everyone else sees in you - a fantastic, determined, clever and loving lady and mumx

  • Yeah I suppose. I need to do something because I was doing so well and I feel like it's really slipped this week. Got a review with the dr in the morning so going to tell her I'm finding things really difficult and having not nice thoughts again x

  • Blips are normal part of PNI but can be so hard especially after a good spell. Maybe your nan dying could have triggered it but tiredness and pmt were common ones for me. Hope today is better X

  • Yeah I suppose. Saw the dr this morning, she has been trying to get me a CPN reallocated. Apparently the CPN manager sent her a really stroppy letter back so we are giving up on that now. Trying not to get paranoid and take it personally!!x

  • No don't ! You're caught in an understaffed and overworked system . Any issues will rarely have anything f to do with you as a person X

  • How are you doing? Hope the last few days have been kind to you x

  • Hey. They've not been too bad thanks. Today was my nans funeral so it's been really hard but I coped better than I thought I would. Just so drained and feel really sick and all over the place but hoping it's just extra lack of sleep (I got none last night) and that I might feel a bit better in the morning.xx

  • Big hugs . Yesterday must have been so hard and you did so well to get through it. Expect to feel low- anyone would after the bereavement of someone close. If you didn't sleep the nght before last it's no wonder you feel dreadful. Hope today has been better on all fronts x

  • Yeah it has been a bit easier today. Slept awful last night but when my son woke up I brought him in with me and we both fell asleep for 2 hours and so I did have a good chunk then. Maybe tonight will be easier x

  • Perhaps have a bath (if you can!) or do some deep breathing when you go to bed - anything that'll help you relax . It's been a tough couple of days for you x

  • Yeah I was thinking about having a nice hot bath and an early night with a book and see if it helps. Thank you so much for all of your support. I don't know what I would have done without you x

  • Hi

    Hope you get a good night - you'll feel better.

    Thank you for your kind words. So glad I can I can help you - I don't think you realise your own strength though. You'll get through this illness x

  • Thank you. Heading up shortly so fingers crossed x

  • How are you today? X

  • Yeah not had too bad a day really. I didn't sleep great but certainly not as bad as I had done. I probably had about five hours in total. It was broken but better than that It has been. I have my next psychology appointment tomorrow and I know she's keen for my sleep to have improved so she knows I'm making progress x

  • Hi

    How did appt go? It's hard to get back into a good sleep pattern after a prolonged period of it being disrupted - don't I just know. I went into neals yard remedies and they do a couple of products for sleep. One is a tonic but it can make you a little drowsy which I will try but I need to be alert am as often I drive. The other is a roll on (you use it on wrists etc) - unfortunately they didn't have it in stock so someone is buying it for me tomoz, I'll let you know how I get on x

  • Ah yeah if you could as we have a neals yard here so if it works I could pop in. Session today went ok actually, I found it much easier to talk to her about how I was feeling. We discussed my fears about having another child and how I felt after my son was first born. We also talked about when I went to see a midwife in clinic and how she made me feel like I was just a bad mum. She said I have been failed by the system and she's not happy with the care I received and she wants me to feel angry about it rather than blaming myself. I told her how I just feel like a bad mum and even now if something goes wrong I hate myself for it and blame myself and she wants me to do a list as to why I think I'm a bad mum for us to go through when I see her in a fortnight x

  • Hi

    It sounds like you had a really positive session. I so agree with everything she said. In time you will decrease then stop the self blame. That is so common. I was the same. Everytime you feel something is your fault say the opposite to even if you don't feel it. This is not my fault it's due to xy or z. Just going through the motions might help you get to the point you start to believe it yourself.

    I'm going to start the NY roll on the pulse points stuff tonight- will let you know how I get on! X

  • I am trying really hard to try and think of alternative reasons why things may have happened. It is something I really struggle with though! Had a bad day yesterday but think it was partly because I had done a day of work and it had brought home to me that I only have 9 weeks of maternity left and I just feel like it's all been wasted feeling unwell. Then I got myself worked up because I panicked that I was doing so well and then the perinatal team are just going to discharge me when my son hits a year and that's not long and then I'll just be left!

    Hope it works for you! Definitely let me know!!x

  • Hi

    How arę you? Don't give up - practise makes perfect and putting aside negative thoughts when you've conditioned yourself that way is a habit that's hard to break - but entirely possible!

    I know it's hard to look at time off and think that's it's been a waste as you e felt so rubbish. However, look at the positives you're recovering and really doing so well. It's been an extraordinary journey and whist atm it's hard to see positives of PNI they do exist. I look back now 10 yrs post recovery and see positives. I know myself much better and as a result am more confident in certain areas I'm certainly kinder more empathetic.

    I imagine if you're not ready to be discharged they won't. Saying that it's over 2 months and you could really be ready to go solo by then. Don't forget we're still here to support you x

  • Yeah I'm doing ok I think mostly. Still having ups and downs regularly throughout the days sometimes but definitely managing them better and I'm trying to make myself feel positive about going back to work .

    My worry with the perinatal team is that they were ready to discharge me and move me to a different department which had a 4 month waiting list just after they had referred me to the crisis team as a suicide risk so I just feel like they will just do what they want and if the official line is they only take referrals up to 9 months and see patients up to a year I can't see them changing from that. It's the one thing I feel really anxious about as I feel like I'm just ticking down to my support being removed all together x

  • Hi maybe talk to them about that at your next meeting ? It might give you peace of mind or at least you'll know what may happen. It's great you're managing the dips better - they will lessen in frequency, duration x

  • Yeah I was thinking of mentioning it. Wasn't sure if they would think I was getting carried away with anxiety again. It is making me very anxious but I think I over think it with them because I feel like I have to second guess what they think of me after what happened before. I still don't know why the CPN took such a dislike to me!x

  • I really think it's not unreasonable to worry if your treatment plan will be cut suddenly before you feel you're at the stage where you have the tools and are well enough to manage. I'm sure they'll understand .

    Stuff the cpn ! She's either a horrible cow or under pressure or maybe both!! X

  • I know I need to let the CPN stuff go but I'm really struggling with it. I have a fundraising ball on Saturday night and need a dress so finally dragged myself shopping yesterday and found nothing. I looked fat and disgusting in everything I tried on and then as I came out my friend rang and said she had found one and when I got off the phone I just sat in the car park and cried and cried and then couldn't stop so cried all the way home, and then for ages at home. I feel like I don't even recognise this person anymore, getting so upset about a dress.x

  • Big hugs . This is all PNI but won't be like this forever I promise you. Can you get someone to help you with dress. It sounds like you're your harshest critic and having someone objective about can help. I hope sat night goes well - try not to put pressure on yourself to feel a certain way and just go with the flow. X

  • Thank you. I took a friend into town with me to get a dress so I do have one. Went and had my hair cut today in the hope it makes me feel a bit better tomorrow. It's just all such a strange feeling I almost don't feel like I'm living my own life anymore. Went to see my sons nursery today as only my husband went last time. 8 weeks today i'll just have done my first week back at work. Absolutely dreading it. Still mourning the fact that I've lost my entire maternity leave to feeling like this. Half of the time I just don't know how I feel or how I'm supppsed to feel x

  • Do you feel able and ready to go back to work? If not maybe discuss with dr and sick leave might be an option. Saying that sometimes (in my case) I actually went back a little early and the distraction really helped me. Are you going back full time?

    I really do understand how you feel about the 'wasted' maternity leave and it's entirely normal to think this way . Do try to look into the future though as there is nothing you can do with the past - it is what it is, but the future is bright although it might not feel like that.

    What's your frock like? I really hope you have a great night tonight X

  • I don't really feel ready or able to but I'm hoping that will change before I go back. Every time I have done a KIT day so far I have had a real dip afterwards. The dr and the CPN have mentioned before about me coming off maternity and going straight onto sick now so I don't have to do the KIT days and the psychologist said again the other week that she doesn't want me working and wants me signed off but the problem is my boss isn't discrete and as no one knows I'm struggling I don't really want it being broadcast around so going off sick isn't really an option. I want to go back three days but haven't sent my proposal across to my boss yet as I've been burying my head in the sand with everything really.

    I did have a good night last night but then feel a bit funny today which makes no sense After having a previous good day. Frock was ok in the end actually although I didn't have the best figure for it - dark green with sparkly shoulders x

  • Having a really bad night tonight. Feeling really anxious and my mind is going into overdrive but I can't actually pinpoint what I am feeling anxious about.x

  • How did you sleep last night? Sounds like your night out went really well which is brill. I bet you looked amazing. Perhaps late night , quite a few drinks have triggered the anxiety? Try a brisk walk today - maybe do a bit of interval power walking. It'll take your mind off things if nothing else but might give you an endorphin boost and burn off some nervous energy. Hey the suns shining - you might get a tan!

    Re work your boss has no right to tell anybody how are you are - he could always say you've extended your maternity leave if you take sick leave. I know though that even if he has no right to talk it may not stop him and it's not easy taking steps to complain about him potentially .

    Whilst it's your right not to talk about your illness should it get out it may not be the end of the world. I talked about PNI with my friends and surprisingly quite a few ladies have said they'd had it and I must say even my boss who I thought would be difficult told me about his bought of depression . If you want to go part time could you get someone to help you with it? Partner or friend? X

  • Slept badly. I'm really finding sleep difficult at the moment. Having a lot of nightmare and finding that I'm feeling more and more anxious as I feel better and my head clears. Worry about everything and nothing particularly at night. I did text a friend to meet for coffee to make myself get out and went to the post office to sort my sons passport application out to make sure I kept busy. Psychology tomorrow so I'm going to tell her how I've been having the awful nightmares and struggling with sleep a lot.

    I have started putting my proposal together so will get my husband to help look over it and get it sent off to him this week. I know he can't shouldn't talk about it but he's so awful with things I know he will. He wouldn't be very nice about it. This last week I have plucked up the courage to tell a couple of friends and I'm glad I have now but only just got to a place where I feel able to do that x

  • Had a really rubbish psychology session today and feeling really low about it!

  • What happened? Big hugs... Dont let one shitty session get to youx

  • She spoke again about when I went to see the midwife in clinic about him struggling to feed and how her attitude made me feel and we went into how I felt about the fact I stopped breastfeeding when I was readmitted. She had asked me to write a list for homework the session before of the reasons I thought I was a bad mum and she said in the list I had compiled it was very negative language. She explored this with me and I realised that I really hate myself for the way things turned out and for not breastfeeding him and just feel like I was a total failure. She said the only way to move on was to learn to forgive myself for what happened so I can move on but then we ran out of time and the session was over so we couldn't go in to how I might actually move forward to do that and there was no time for anything else or any reliving. I just felt like I had waited 2 weeks and we achieved nothing in the session and now I have to wait a fortnight before anything else happens. At the moment I'm just living life in two week blocks waiting for the next session and so to achieve nothing feels really downheartening. To top it off I was taking a friend to the train station yesterday and my car wouldn't start so I was late and she missed her train and had to buy a new ticket. I just feel like a total failure at life. I can't seem to do anything right and always seem to mess up the simplest of things in life. The last 2 days I've just looked at the future and just thought I really don't see any hope in it at all and for the first time in months last night I really just thought I don't want to be here anymore.x

  • Big hugs . Yes I can see why you're feeling the way you do in that you offload and are left hanging.

    Try and pretend it's your friend who has said all these things to you. Would you see her as a failure for the BF issues ? Would the fact that her car didn't start actually be her fault? I have no doubt you wouldn't think that yet you blame yourself for everything incl things that were simply beyond your control. Try congratulating yourself on your persistence with BF in spite of being so ill yourself and your kindness in offering to take your friend to the station. These are admirable traits in a person. Everytime you have a negative thought about yourself , turn it into a positive one even if you can't actually believe it yourself atm.

    Could you speak to the counsellor next time and request weekly sessions? X

  • No I don't think so because I was seeing her weekly for ages and then when they went funny and tried to refer me on, when she eventually agreed to see me again it was only every other week so she obviously doesn't want to have to see me every week. Maybe if I hadn't messed it up before she would have kept seeing me weekly.

    She did say to me in the meeting what do you think of people who bottle feed and I said nothing really, that's their choice and one of my friends who had her little girl four days after me bottle fed from the start - was her choice to do so and I didn't judge her but I know I still judge myself. I'm just so trapped at the moment and now I'm stuck in limbo again for the next 2 weeks. I just don't really think there's any point to any of it anymore x

  • Nothing you've said is unreasonable - the gaps in between appts are too long for you atm. You've explained things so clearly and justified why. You certainly didn't mess up before - it was completely their fault. It could be argued that the lack of appts is adding to your anxiety . Another option is perhaps paying for therapy privately. I know you shouldn't have to.....

    I hope the weekend is going wellx

  • I know, I am finding the appointments too far apart but there's just nothing I can do about it. I might mention it to the gp but even she's reduced my review appointments to once a month now so I'm not seeing her until March. I just feel a bit left to it and I'm really messing things up!x

  • It's actually a positive sign your gp is reducing your appts - you have come on in leaps and bounds even if you don't feel it.

    What do you think you're messing up? X

  • Sorry had a really bad couple of days. I'm just messing up everything. I can't keep up on the housework or get meals cooked properly. Actual tasks I need to do I just can't seem to function on. I'm due back at work in 5 weeks and want to go part time Nd haven't even put my proposal to my boss as i haven't got round to putting together a proposal for him. It's the same with any admin. I write lists of things i need to get done but it doesn't make me do them, the lists just get longer. I'm just failing at life because I'm useless at functioning and getting any order to life. I just can't live like this anymore it's too hard!x

  • Pls believe me this is not you this is PNI . It's so hard - for many PNI gives you brain fog where the simplist of tasks become overwhelming compounding the sense of failure. Honestly you're functioning a million times better than I did. My mum stayed with us and various other relatives for about 2 months. I distinctly remember my son was weaning and I couldn't even boil a carrot.

    If the lists are making you feel worse don't do them. Get others on board to help. Get your hubby to do the bulk of the proposal - tell him how you're feeling.

    Also returning to work is a huge source of stress. Talk this over with gp and therapist. Actually 5 weeks is a long time - you might be ready to return by then but it's worth discussing options with everyone. Don't give up - it's bloody hard atm but you will get through this x

  • The GP and the psychologist both want me to be signed off sick. When I went in to the office a few weeks ago to do a keeping in touch Day the psychologist made it clear she didn't agree with what I was doing but that if that was what I insisted on doing she couldn't stop me. I had been in before Christmas and really struggled so she thinks it doesn't do me good to be back in that environment. The problem is I don't want to go back to work but feel a huge amount of pressure to which I don't feel strong enough to fight against so it seems like the easiest thing is to go back even if it isn't going to do me any good. Then it's when things get too much I feel like I need to get out of this life because it's the only way I'm going to make everything instantly better. This is the first month the dr has trusted me to have more than a few tablets in one go so the sensible part of me knows I can't abuse that by doing anything but the part of me that is just so overwhelmed sees it as the way to solve all of my problems. X

  • You said you feel pressurised to go back to work - what by? Money? Boss? Have you talked to hubby about this? It sounds like the KIT days have been a struggle - sick leave would help as added pressure won't. Then maybe some sort of phased return? It really is worth talking things through . I know all of this must feel so overwhelming but it is possible to sort it all out.

    I know when I was v I'll there was no way I would have been able to to go back to work but i actually went back a few weeks earlier than my intended start date as I felt I needed work and the timing was just right. What in saying is that now might not be the right time but in a things can change quite quickly for the better x

  • Sort of by money. I have always been the main earner so whilst we have coped ok without my wage funds are starting to get low. I could probably manage another month but no more really. The main pressure is my boss. I work for a small firm and as one of the more senior members of staff he relies on me quite heavily. The firm is struggling financially after having lost three members of staff recently in quick succession and he has struggled to replace them. He is banking on me coming back and rings me every now and again to say he's looking forward to me being back and he doesn't know what he would do Without me. Because it's a small family run firm I feel too guilty to leave him in a mess. I dread it more though because I know because he is short staffed and the work is piling up that there will be a lot of pressure for me to take on very quickly going back.

    It feels too overwhelming to have to deal with my boss but too overwhelming to go back too which leaves me feeling like there's no way out and that I would rather not be here to have to deal with decisions I can't handle. It's my little boys christening at the weekend and we chose two couples to be godparents. At the time I decided to go for one of my best friends and not the other and now really regret that. My friend has been so good to me recently since I told her how I'd been struggling that I feel so awful she's not and I can't bear to tell her that I've picked others and not her. It's all these decisions in life and I just can't handle any of them. I don't want to be here anymore because I can't handle life! It's all too much.x

  • Thank you so much for your support!xxx

  • You're welcome - I hope I can help you feel less alone .

    PNI can make decision making such a nightmare and very overwhelming too. Can you share your worries with your husband? Or someone else ?

    I can understand the pressure you're under but it does sound as if you're thinking of everyone else before yourself in this. Ie money, your boss, your friends feelings.

    I know you've said your boss isn't the most understanding but maybe talk to him about how you are and what your difficulties are? It's going to have to come out one way or another and if he knows in advance maybe there'll be more options for both of you. The risk is if you go back too early it might set you back more. Do share your worries with those closest to youx

  • There's just no one. My husband tries to understand but he's very matter of fact so can't understand how hard it is for me to make decisions. My friend who knows has enough of her own problems at the moment as a close family member has passed away so I'm just totally alone and I can't cope with life or making decisions. I just wish I wasn't here anymore to have to make them. Sometimes I wish I was dead so I could just escape it all because I just can't cope with it, with life, decision making, going back to work, equally not going back to work. I don't feel like there is any other way out!

    No one else has a clue about anything so to them I just look totally useless I suppose! X

  • its such a tough time for you right now but it won't always be like this honestly. Your hubby may not be able to fully understand what you're going through right now (that's v common) but maybe tell him how you're struggling atm with making decisions , you're feeling overwhelmed and pressurised from all sides. Get him to help you make the decisions. This feeling of everything resting on your shoulders is making you feel you'd rather be dead even if you'd never go through with it. That's tough and shows how low you're feeling with all of this. You shouldn't have to go through this alone .

    All the best with the christening - I'm sure it'll be s wonderful day - just go with the flow x

  • Thank you. After a lot of anxiety the christening went quite well. Was very drained after from having to put on such a front and fake a smile but feel a little less exhausted today.

    My boss text me today and I had a slight panic attack about going back this morning. My husband doesn't really know what I should do. When I ask him he just says he doesn't know. X

  • So pleased the christening went well. At the best of times these events with all the planning and preparation can be hugely stressful. You got through though.

    Hmm...work. Given that the kit days have caused you a lot of anxiety maybe you're not quite ready to go back. Saying that could your boss give you a different role or adapt your job as a temporary measure whilst you get back on your feet. As stressful as it sounds it might be best to talk to him about it all x

  • He can't really give me a different role in the firm - could potentially give me a smaller case load to manage but I don't think he would as he's short staffed and relying on me coming back.

    I'm feeling really anxious today. Anxious about work and how I'm feeling. Seeing psychologist tomorrow and I know I should tell her that I'm struggling with the fortnightly sessions but I feel like it's my fault that she changed them from weekly to fortnightly in the first place when she wanted to refer me on and so I shouldn't rock the boat by asking for more. Then I made myself worry and feel guilty for what I might have done to make her see me less and now I can't sleep because I'm worrying about that and wondering what I could have done differently x

  • Honestly I don't think you did anything wrong at all. It was wires being crossed that led to the mix up etc. Don't blame yourself. Also you can't change the past. As someone who dwells on things I know it's hard to let go and stop mulling things over but do try.

    Do tell the psychologist how you're feeling. Returning to work and the quandary you face are making you struggle. Pretending you're ok won't help you in the long run especially as you need support now in making the decision about work and supporting you at this stressful time. Why don't you tell her the truth - the way they behaved last time has made you fear being dropped.

    Big hugs - you will get through this x

  • Sometimes I can let go of it for a short while but then it just keeps coming back. It was after then that she changed my appointments to fortnightly and so I can't help but constantly keep wondering and blaming myself over it all.

    Had another psychology session Wednesday and found it really hard again. I'm really finding the 2 week gaps too long and I'm finding I'm coming out of the sessions with so many feelings up in the air and no help with how to deal with them. I then just spend the fortnight torturing myself with these thoughts and feelings that I don't know how to deal with. The last psychology session two weeks ago she went through the community midwife scenario and how her lack of support made me feel and things. When we had relived that it was end of session so she gave me my homework and then I left with all these feelings and no way to deal with them. Then Wednesday when I went back she decided to do the birth as I explained I had been struggling with those feelings so we did the birth and now that has also brought up so many thoughts and feelings to the front of my mind as well as the ones from the previous session so now I feel like my head is overcrowded and I don't know how to deal with it or how to organise my thoughts.

    When she talked about the treatment previously it all made sense - weekly appointments because a lot of feelings are stirred so they should be in quick succession - the first one is reliving and then the other appointments we delve into how I feel about certain parts of it. When she agreed to see me again after wanting to refer out she started the treatment but obviously only booked fortnightly appointments and I'm confused why she has done that when she was thinking before I needed more intense treatment and that was why she wanted to pass me on. It's like she doesn't really want to work with me but feels like she has to do something. The problem is she did the community one and then skipped to the birth because it was troubling me and the birth one really didn't go very well and now I don't know what to make of it but we still haven't broken down and talked through the other bits so everything is swimming around in my head now on top of the fact that I feel she's not doing the treatment properly because she doesn't want to work with me really.

    I'm really struggling to deal with all this.x

  • Hi

    How are you? It must be really tough to stir up all these thoughts and emotions only to be told it's the end of the session and see you in 2 weeks! How about instead of saying ' I would like weekly sessions' just tell her that each session opens up everything but there's no time to dissect everything that's been churned up? Maybe that type of conversation will lead to her naturally suggesting more frequent visits or spend less of the session 'reliving' and more 'analysing'.

    I'm not a counsellor in any shape or form but maybe after such a session you might like to get these thoughts down on here. Just write them as they pop into your head. Sometimes the whole black and white format can clarify things and of course I'll reply. X

  • Thank you. Well when I went on Wednesday and relived the birth she said she was suprised because I didn't get as distressed as she thought I would. She said she couldn't decide at the time if this was because I was coping with the birth better than I thought or because I wasn't allowing myself to properly go into the memory and feel it fully. I'm not sure which it is and now not sure how to work out what bothers me most. She relived the birth and recorded it for me to listen to at least three times a week. The recording was 13 mins long. I tried Thursday and after about 2 mins couldn't listen any more and had To turn it off. I tried again yesterday evening and got to 10 mins in and suddenly felf sick. When it got to the bit that distressed me in the appointment suddenly out of no where I threw up. Didn't feel sick before and didn't after when I turned off the recording so not sure what to make of it now xxx

  • Hi

    That's a very profound reaction. Maybe give yourself a little bit of time before listening to it again . Why are you supposed to listen to it several times? To desensitise yourself to it?

    Don't read too much into your reaction . Anyone reliving traumatic experiences will feel awful initially . Hopefully over time the traumatic aspect of it will fade. How was the rest of your weekend ?x

  • I don't know she doesn't really explain anything to me so I feel so confused by it all. I have a million questions floating around my head and I'm not really sure how to process them. Im finding it all a bit difficult. I know the idea is she wants to identify the hotpoints that are particularly distressing in the memory so we can deal with it but she hasn't said any more and keeps making me relive different bits. Please help me make sense of it because I feel like it's driving me insane x

  • It does sound as if the psychologist is opening up too many cans of worms so to speak which are just too much. You really have to tell her. Don't listen to the tape perhaps until you feel ready to.

    It sounds as if life is getting a bit overwhelming atm especially with work plus therapy. It's temporary I'm sure but a Drs trip might be a good idea even if for reassurance only .

    How have the past couple of days been ? X

  • How are you? X

  • I'm finding it really hard and have been ill the last couple of days which hasn't helped. I don't really know what to do. I'm not brave enough to be honest with the psychologist because I feel so anxious about what happened last time. I haven't listened to the recording since but feel like I should try xx

  • I don't really know how to straighten out and organise the thoughts in my head and I don't know what to say to the psychologist when I see her. My head is a total mess xx

  • Being physically can affect your mood hugely so might be the cause of the dip.

    I understand why you find it hard to be honest with psychologist but if you don't say something she will continue with treatment ie going over with painful events which will make you feel even worse. Maybe give her some inkling how you've been without going into detail or say that you feel you'd like to slow down and spend more time discussing feelings associated with each event rather that just bring up the event itself?

    Perhaps try writing down on a point by point basis what you're feeling? It can be like a turned on washing machine full of clothes - so many different thought jumbling round on your mind that it's hard to focus on one thing x

  • I think that's what it's done because my head just feels full of everything as if all the different thoughts from when he was a newborn are spinning around in my head. It feels a bit like being back at square one again. I suppose it doesn't help that there are so many different aspects to my problems and it's all such a complicated mess. She said she felt there were loads of different contributors and it would be a bit like fighting fire until we got through them but I'm finding the way she is doing it a bit overwhelming x

  • You really do need to tell her. It doesn't mean you're not progressing or won't be but the pace is too fast.

    It's common to have so much going on in your mind - I find life like this too at times even now! I think you need to untangle it all so a piecemeal approach - one thing at a time will be best x

  • I know. I do feel like the pace needs to slow but because I'm only seeing her every fortnight and I'm back at work in four weeks I really don't want to slow things down either. I really wish I was still seeing her weekly and I can't help but think that if I hadn't messed things up before then I would still be getting those regular appointments x

  • Hi

    Is your appt this Weds? See how you feel but try to say something about how you are - I know your fears and understand why you have them but really don't blame yourself . You couldn't have done anything differently and the fact that everything went pear shaped is their fault X

  • No the appointments in the morning. I've spent the last hour going through some notes I've made and I'm going to really try and make it a positive session. Not sure if I'm going to be able to speak about how they made me feel but I'm hoping I'm strong enough to say a little bit about how I'm feeling. I've got to the stage now where I feel what happened with her and the CPN is actually making the PND worse. I've made some good notes on the birth reliving and have managed to listen to it a couple more times since x

  • Wow that's brilliant! I really admire you - your ability to turn things around in spite of feeling low and anxious is amazing . That really takes some doing so give yourself a pat on the back!

    Good luck for today - let me know how you get onx

  • I don't feel like it went that well at all. I was only in there 20 minutes. She basically said that she agreed I hadn't really been able to take myself into the memory of the birth and that she thought it was too much for me to totally go into it this soon so she's decided to try a different type of reliving that will allow me to step back from the memory slightly. Problem is she decided to do that then said there wasn't time to do that today so now I have to wait until the next appointment to actually try that so that's another 2 weeks away yet. I just feel like I'm getting nowhere and none of them get how I feel. I just want them to help me and I don't feel they get it and I don't feel I'm making any real progress x

  • 20 mins - that's ridiculous ! What can you cover in that time? Why was it so short? You must be hugely disappointed and frustrated. Could you look for counselling somewhere else? X

  • I don't even know where else I would try. I basically went in and she asked how I had been. I told her I had struggled since the last session and explained how I had been feeling and she said she had suspected after I left that I hadn't been quite in the memory when reliving it which she said happen it's still too painful for you to be in. SHe wants to try a different way of reliving where you are slightly more detached from the memory but said well there won't be time to start that now so we'll do it in the next session and then she basically said there wasn't much more to do until the next session which is already booked in for 2 weeks tomorrow so she'd see me then. I just don't know what to do anymore. It just all seems totally hopeless. I'm trying but I can't do it on my own and they don't seem to be interested in helping or supporting me so I don't really think there is anywhere else left to go anymore. I just can't cope like this any longer!x

  • Hi

    bacp.co.uk/

    The above can give you info on accredited counsellors in your area and what they offer then it's a question of speaking to them and seeing if they're right for you.

    Maybe also talk to gp about what's going on - I think she's got your back - and see what she thinks . There are always options - it's a case of finding them but when you're in that darker place it's hard to gather your thoughts .

    How have the past couple of days been? X

  • Not great at all although today has been a bit better. The gp does know I'm finding psychology difficult and the gaps between them but said I just needed to talk to her which I just can't do. I think everyone thinks I'm just not helping myself enough. I could look into counselling but just don't think I can afford it at the moment without it putting an extra strain on us x

  • I don't think you're not helping yourself enough at all. It's hard to make certain steps. It's a balance of doing things but not giving yourself more stress. I also understand your retiscense in speaking to psychologist about anything given how they reacted in the past . However what do you have to lose. The therapy isn't particularly effective and is actually causing you more anxiety atm as the sessions are too far apart and the techniques she's using are too much given there's no follow up for 2 weeks. What's the worst that can happen? She's say you have to undertake another type of therapy? Given that this one isn't effective although due to their screw ups and certainly not down to you, that might not be a bad thing!

    Please don't think I'm having a go as I'm not at all. Just trying to outline your options as I see them x

  • How are you Leanne? X

  • Haven't been great but managed to bring myself out of it last night a bit and don't feel too bad this morning. My only worry with her recommending another therapy is the long waiting lists and then having to wait again with no support for months at a time. I just keep thinking at least at the moment I have the support even if it isn't as often as I would like. Although it's making me feel bad because the frequency etc isn't enough for me, in some ways at least I'm able to talk about how I'm feeling and I have the support. Although I'm finding it hard it's got to get better eventually hasn't it?xxx

  • It will get better, honestly. It does feel like 'one step forward , two steps back' but you will recover.

    How have you been over the last couple of days? I hope you've managed to enjoy the sunshine X

  • Hey. For some reason I didn't get a notification on your message so sorry it's taken me so long to reply! I've not been too bad, went to see a friend's newborn on the weekend and that really set me back as she was doing so well I just felt like an utter failure. I'm feeling so so anxious about having to go back to work in less than 2 weeks as well and still really struggling with psychology - I don't really know what to do about psychology x

  • I think it's a system flaw as I only get notifications intermittently. Don't apologise at all!

    Sounds like things have been OK for you which is great to hear.

    Visiting babies and their seemingly perfect mums (it's often not the case you know) can be a huge trigger. You might feel like rubbish but you too are a brilliant mum. Try to see the positives in the things you do as opposed to focus on negatives - the more you do it the easier it'll get.

    Good luck with work - I inow its daunting but you might be pleasantly surprised - it might give you a welcome distraction. Try to be as open with your boss as you can be. If somethings are too much - say so.

    With regards to the psychology, I think you have nothing to lose by saying how it's all going as it's not really benefitting you as much as you could. I know that's hard to do and I guess there's a risk you'll be passed onto someone else, but maybe you'll get the help you need.

    I'm guessing you go back to work after Easter or just before? X

  • I'm back a week on Tuesday but already having the pressure piled on before I've even got there so dreading it!!

    Had psychology today and it was a really positive session. We did the birth reliving again in a gentler form so it wasn't too overwhelming for me and I did it so much better - even the psychologist thought so. I've got the recording that I have to listen to every day before the next session in a fortnight and then we are going to go through some of the hotspots that she thought upset me most. Then once we have done all of those she is going to do the Same with the other events. I feel much happier that their is a plan in place now. The session really took it out of me but I feel like a weight has been lifted now. Hopefully it will continue!

    Only problem is I still can't let go of what happened with the psychologist and CPN and feel so

    Preoccupied by it - I'm not really sure how to let it go?x

  • Brilliant news about yesterday's session and that it's had such a positive effect on you. Maybe consider bringing up the cpn/psychologist events with her? Maybe talking about it and clearing the air will help?

    Oh dear re work. I guess see how it goes and try to be open with your boss if it's getting too much . He has to take your health into consideration whether he wants to or not! Again when you're in that situation it's not so easy X

  • I would love to be able to bring it up with her because it occupies so much of my thoughts but I know I'll never be brave enough to do so. I just don't know how else to put it to rest in my head.

    Spoke too soon about psychology going well too. I'm really feeling like it's one step forward and about 6 steps back. I went to do the homework Thursday night which was listening to the recording of the reliving every night until the next appointment and write down how it makes me feel each time. After 7 minutes the recording cuts out and then just picks up right at the end (she insisted on using my phone to record it because apparently the NHS firewalls make it really hard to send them over if they use their dictaphones). I rang her Friday to tell her it hadn't worked so I couldn't do the homework and didn't want to wait until the next appointment which is set for 2 weeks yesterday. She just said she couldn't fit me in to redo it sooner than the appointment so just listen to the bit I have and try and imagine rest and then next time we can either redo the bit that's missing or she said we may be able to get away with not doing that bit. I feel so down about it though as I feel like everything's up in the air again now. Before we had a plan and I liked knowing where I was with everything but now it's back to let's just see how how it goes. We may redo it we may not. The worst thing is the hardest bits I'm finding to deal with are the bits that are missing. I just feel like I'm getting no where and now I have to wait another 2 weeks. I'm so Upset by it and not sleeping at all xx

  • Don't beat yourself up about being brave - you will get to the point where you do have the confidence to challenge what happened with cpn and psychologist . You're still frightened as it may rock the boat in your mind.

    How disappointing re recording not to mention frustrating. It all seems typical NHS - that might seem harsh to some but this kind of slapdash approach just makes you feel worse due to never ending obstacles in your path. You need clarity and consistency . I'm like that too - I don't like uncertainty. How's the sleeping? Someone recommended headspace to me - (it's an app for mindfulness) I don't think it's cheap - but supposed to be very effective. You can get info from the car site. Something like this might really help you.

    Happy Mother's Day btw - I hope you had a lovely dayx

  • Thank you. I did have a nice Mother's Day followed by an extremely teary Monday and Tuesday. Haven't slept at all really so not feeling very well at all tonight. The past couple of days I can feel that I'm on the edge and it's really horrible because I can feel myself trying so hard to hold it all together but can feel myself losing it at the same time. At the moment I feel like I'm on a tight rope and I'm about to fall off at any moment. I have downloaded headspace, it was free so I put that on last night and it did help a bit but I kept waking up still.

    I tried to be brave and emailed psychology on Monday asking if she could let me know if she had a cancellation and she offered 9:00am this morning which I couldn't do and when I contacted her to explain why I think she just finds me a total waste of space. She is seeing me Friday afternoon to redo it but I feel sorry for her having to work with me just because she feels she has to. It's all my fault because it's no coincidence that the midwives didn't want to help me and the CPN didn't so I can hardly be surprised that the psychologist thinks I'm a waste of space. I'm just sick of fighting it now at every turn!x

  • So she cancelled this appointment again today. I don't really know why I'm bothering.x

  • Oh no! That's rubbish of her and unprofessional . Don't blame yourself with any of this as its not your fault! You are worth helping. They're just useless, uncoordinated and unreliable. If you can is really look for private counselling/ therapy . I know it's an expense you don't need but it might really kick start your recovery - so far the therapy has just been another source of stress for you die to their incompetence x

  • No she cancelled me because she had to see another patient so she wants to make the time for other patients of hers, just not me. She just doesn't care and no one does. I tried calling the gp but she's not in until Tuesday. I've got no where to turn and I've had enough of it now. I just can't do I anymore x

  • That's unprofessional to cancel to see another patient. Would you do that to one of your clients? I bet you wouldn't.

    It sounds like you need to talk to someone now. There's Apni - call or email them.

    apni.org/contact/

    Also the Samaritans are a brilliant source of help

    samaritans.org/

    Please please keep talking . I know how rubbish low and desperate you feel - this will pass though and it's through no fault of your own that the care you receive is quite simply crap! Big hugs - will look out for you on here x

  • No I wouldn't. No one wants to help me and I'm on my own with it now. I did contact apni before and was assigned a volunteer but she never contacted me after the first time. I emailed her again when I was feeling particularly low with psychology and she didn't reply for 2 weeks and then I never heard from her again so no point bothering. No one wants to help me because I'm a waste of space so what's the point when no one else sees the point. They are probably just waiting for the day I'm not ther problem anymore. I'd be doing f everyone a favour x

  • You are no way a waste of space. You've been let down badly by a catalogue of health care professionals and sadly you're far from alone. Your self confidence is rock bottom and that's why you think their unprofessionalism is so personal. However I guarantee the psychologist, cpn, volunteer who didn't support you - will have let down others too.

    You mentioned you'd be doing everyone a favour - by doing what? Please please don't hurt yourself (sorry if you have no intention of doing that). Do call the Samaritans or even the NHS line - as much as you've been let down there are others out there who will listen and care. Turn to your hubby, family and friends if you feel so low. As low as you feel atm life will improve - honestlyx

  • There is no point with any of them anymore. They will all be the same. No one cares. The NHS crisis team don't care - they just referred me to the CPN last time who equally doesn't care. There is no way out of this because none of them think I'm worth helping at all. Lots of other women online and on social media talk about how great the perinatal team is so it is just me, they help everyone else. I would be doing everyone a favour because I'm wasting everyone's time, I'm a hindrance. Even the couple of friends I have told never bother to see how I am. I was meant to be meeting one last week and she had to cancel as she had washing to catch up on. I'm a total waste of space and just a burden to everyone x

  • Life is never going to improve because no one actually wants to help me make it improve do they. If they don't think I'm worth it then I'm not am I. People don't want me here, they want me gone to get out of their way so I may as well just give them what they want x

  • No! That's not true. You are worth helping and you have to fight to get the help you need. I know that's the last thing you feel like doing and because of the low place you're in you think the fact that the various professionals have treated you is due to you - it isn't! Honestly, many many women complain about the poor care they receive. Your friend cancelling too - she probably doesn't realise the depths of your feelings. I too didn't get sufficient help when I needed it on so many occasions . It's awful but it isn't to do wirh your worthiness to get that care - please believe me.

    Your confidence is rock bottom due to this terrible illness - it's a common symptom but you're one amazing lady with so much to offer. You will recover x

  • I don't want to though, I just want it to go away because I'm never going to get better because no one else wants me to and no one wants to help me. ive really had enough, I've just reached my limit. Sometimes I really just need to end it all and then sometimes I don't even feel brace enough to do that, that's how rubbish I am x

  • The fact you have a will to live is not a weakness . The fact that you're having these feelings about not being here shows how low you are. Please talk to Samaritans even go to A&E if you think you'll harm yourself. Go to GP on Tuesday. Talk to your husband. Don't bottle up how you feel . You need support .

    Take each day as it comes - in fact break each day up into chunks and focus only on the part of the day you're in. Focus on each task you do. Above all be kind to yourself as you do deserve it. Ice said before the cruelty of this illness can't be underestimated - it robs you of self worth and confidence but you will recover from itx

  • How am I going to get better though if they don't want to help me. I don't know what to do. There isn't any point speaking to the samaritans and I don't want to go to a and e as I think it's the only way out now so why let them take away my only way out. I just don't know what to do anymore x

  • Firstly tell someone close how you are- talk to hubby, family members. Probably no one realises how awful you feel, but you need support .

    Secondly if you can't wait until Tues make emetgency appt to Drs - say exactly how you're feeling and how the psychology is going. Maybe meds need tweaking?

    In the meantime if you need to use the Samaritans - you'll feel better talking to someone . A problem shared is a problem halved ...and it's true. Atm you're carrying everything alone and you need help.

    Also I'd look into private counselling. You shouldn't have to I know but getting better is a priority and if you can scrape the cash together it'll be worth it.

    Don't give up - it will get better - I'm testament to that - I've been there in that dark place and survived X

  • No one in my family knows other than my husband. Literally only my husband and a couple of friends know. I haven't been brave enough to tell anyone else. I can't make an emergency app at the Drs because my gp isn't in until Tuesday and I know I won't be able to talk to anyone else about it because I'm a waste of space and rubbish at this. I find it so hard talking to people about how I feel I couldn't call up the samaritans and tell them what I want to do, they probably wouldn't care anyway. X

  • Yes the Samaritans would care! You don't have to talk to them but you could email them as well.

    It's hard telling people how you feel. Could you go and talk to your husband now?x

  • I don't think so. He knows I'm struggling but I don't even know how I'd find the words. I just feel like taking myself off and being done with it x

  • How are you today?

    Honestly it breaks my heart to see you're so low. You have nothing to lose by getting help and support - whether that be from your husband GP or whoever.

    I honestly have been where you are now - hating life, hating myself and seeing no way out. But there is - the journey isn't easy but life will be worth living x

  • Havent really had an urge to do anything awful today but had a busy day as we had to meet my sons godparents and then go out for diner after. Just feel really exhausted from not sleeping well. I don't really know what to do next. I think that's why I don't want to be here anymore because it's too hard to think of what else to do to fix it. I don't even know where to begin x

  • Glad you're day went well at least from the thoughts perspective. It sounds like being busy and having a distraction can be effective.

    Why don't you write down what you want in terms of how to feel and what's not working (maybe potential remedies?) - I find this method is quite useful to put my thoughts in order. Take it to the dr tomorrow and see what GP says.

    There are always options - they might feel so hard to find or to have the energy to control but it's certainly worth discussing with drx

  • I can't get an appointment with my gp until Thursday and I don't have the fight in me to have to push it. They were meant to have put a note on the system that I was to be given an appointment whenever I needed one but obviously that counts for nothing. I'm feeling so exhausted and starting back at work tomorrow. I don't really know what I want; I just want this to go away in the quickest way possible and I want to feel like I've got support From the people who are supposed to be helping me but neither of those thing s are in my control x

  • Can you make the GP appt on Thurs? Start there. Atm you have a lot of stress with going back to work and being messed about by psychologist and it's having a negative effect.

    Good luck tomorrow. Am keeping everything crossed for tomorrow - the distraction might be good for you x

  • I don't know because I just feel like I'm having to fight people all the time to get help and I'm so tired of fighting I just can't do it anymore. Dreading going back; it's brought up so many extra emotions like feeling like I've totally wasted my maternity leave and I don't feel ready or strong enough emotionally x

  • All the best for today! Sending you positive vibes!

    Your feelings are completely understandable and it's easy for me to say to you to be positive, no point dwelling on the past as there's nothing you can change etc - even though that's true you can't help but grieve for the suffering and lost time and I think that's also important to recovering.

    I know you shouldn't have to fight to get the right treatment at the right time , but it's worth it in the end as you deserve it. You are not alone in experiencing multiple system failures which feel like a personal rejection, but they're not. It sounds like your GP is on the ball so it's worth making that trip. Perhaps get your husband to go with you ? X

  • Work didn't go too badly. Wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Feeling so so low tonight though. my little boy was fine going to nursery, wasn't phased at all when we left him and wasn't that interested when I came back. He doesn't even seem to really care who I am. He doesn't need me at all. I'm not needed here x

  • Hi

    Glad work went ok. Please don't think your son doesn't need you - you are everything to him - without you life would be indescribably awful. The fact he's gone in and come out of nursery ok only shows he's a well adjusted and confident child and nothing else! Often they start off ok but once they cotton into the fact they're staying away that's when the tears start.

    Anyone incl non PNI mums would feel the same as you. It does tug at the heart strings but firstly it has nothing to do with his love for you and secondly a screaming baby would be horrendous x

  • No it's not just that. He just doesn't need me, he's not fussed either way! They just don't need me x

  • He is though! That all important bond has been formed and you are everything to him. It sounds like you do an amazing job raising a confident well adjusted baby! You are everything to him. It's more that you lack confidence and are seeing things such as him not crying when going to nursery as the fact that he doesn't need you. It's just not true though and in time you will see that. This is a common misconception and many women feel this way x

  • No im really not everything to him and I realise that now. He really doesn't need me for anything anymore x

  • Why do you think that though? You're in a dark place atm where you view everything from a negative perspective - that's depression . It isn't the real you at all. You're in a vulnerable place and I really think the psychology has hugely set you back with messing you about and that's why you absolutely need to see the GP . Life doesn't need to be like this X

  • I know if I disappeared off the planet tomorrow it wouldn't make a difference to anyone's life. My little boy is happy with everyone and certainly wouldn't miss me.

    I saw the GP today and said I wanted to be discharged from perinatal psychology. She said she didn't recommend it, i got upset and explained why I wanted to but she said she thought I should persevere with it as it will be the best thing for me in the end. She wants me to go tomorrow still and if I really don't want to continue I can discharge myself then. It's all a mess now, I just don't want to be here anymore x

  • How did the psychology appt go?

    You are really depressed - the feeling that everyone would be fine without you is a symptom of depression. It's not usual to feel that way - can you see that ? You're low and that in turn makes you feel worthless and insignificant - I know how that feels and looking back to how I felt with PNI I can see how distorted my thinking was.

    Recovery from PNI is bloody hard for sure but you will get there - really hope today went well x

  • It didn't go too badly. She did the reliving - just felt she rushed it but then now I'm worried I'm being paranoid about it. I don't feel like it's distorted thinking. I know it's true. Going to psychology again on Wednesday as I have a couple of weekly ones now so I can start making some progress. I feel like it's all so slow though. I have to listen to the recording every day until the appointment and then we are going to discuss how it made me feel and the best way forward. I feel like there is loads of discussing how we are going to go forward and then that's another appointment wasted where I won't achieve anything. I just want to get through the process now x

  • It is so true, it really is. I don't contribute anything to life for anyone, I don't even know what I'm still doing here x

  • Good news on the more frequent sessions ! Really hope you start to feel things are going in the right direction.

    Can I ask - did you feel this way about not contributing anything to anyone before having a baby. You sound like a fantastic person, intelligent - you've got a husband friends and family - clearly others see positive things in you that you can't see yourself ! I certainly can lots of great things x

  • No never thought it before but then I was stupid and a fool for not realising I was a waste of space for all that time. Now I feel like an idiot for not realising that before. I'm a disgusting excuse for a human being x

  • Hi

    How are you today?

    I do think you need to work on your self esteem and confidence as its rock bottom. Feeling this way is not nice and certainly not true. If I told you the things you're thinking about yourself, would you find me a disgusting human being? I'm sure you wouldn't. I'm sure you would find sympathy and compassion, yet you can't find this for yourself.

    Please believe me this is a typical PNI symptom - try and be kind to yourself as you do deserve it x

  • I don't know anymore. It's like hell. I can't be kind to myself because I hate myself too much and I don't deserve to be here x

  • Do be kind to yourself even if for now you can't feel you deserve it. Once a week do something for you - what sort of things did you enjoy before baby? Maybe go for a swim, meet with a friend, get your nails done and during that time just try to enjoy the experience . Think of it as a investment into your well being! X

  • I don't really know. I enjoyed sewing, knitting, running and reading but can't bear to do any of those anymore. I just want to be punished because it's what I deserve. I just getting real urges to hurt myself because it's what I deserve. I even googled how many tablets I would need to take because I would be too scared to do something and it not work and then I have to stay here and face everyone x

  • Hi

    How's today going? Please please talk to the psychologist. The fact your googling suicide options is a sign of how low and desperate you feel - take a risk and tell her perhaps? Or your GP? Do you think you'd actually carry it out? You don't sets we've to be punished as you've not done anything g wrong. You've got PNI and getting it was beyond your control. After all no one would ever choose to feel this way.

    It's great you had interests. Try the running - I'd do it with you! Perhaps we could do it virtually and encourage each other. I think it would give you a lift and make you feel good about yourself as that's what you need now. X

  • Tough. Realised I forgot to take my tablets for the last 2 days so feeling a bit sick and dizzy from that and my little boy isn't well so not getting much sleep.

    It's not necessarily options I'm looking into, i wouldn't be brave enough to do anything but take tablets, it's just knowing how many it would take to make sure it definitely worked.

    I need to run im so enormous at the moment but I can't seem to get the energy to want to do it. I was also thinking of sewing today but couldn't face that either when it came to it. X

  • Oh dear what's wrong with your little man? Being tired doesn't help mood wise .

    Could you do the running with someone else ? A friend or hubby? I started with a very overweight friend(5mins warm up then 1 min run/ walk intervals). It's not too overwhelming and the NHS couch 2 5k app is very good. There's also this FB running group - runmummyrun which is hugely motivational . Give it a gox

  • If you like we can organise a mutually convenient time and check in and out on herex

  • Just viral the gp said. He said he wasn't sure exactly what it was. Not really sure who I would run with - could do a mutually convenient time but I don't want you to feel you have to do it just because of me.x

  • I started running about 11/2 yrs ago. I'm not a natural runner but built up my stamina and even managed 10k! I had to stop recently as hurt a calf muscle? But need to restart so you'd be helping me too .

    I hope your little man makes a speedy recovery x

  • I haven't done any running since I got pregnant. Ran the London marathon in 2012 and have done a couple of half marathons since but nothing else really x

  • Wow that's impressive! Give it a go! Let me know when you're free - you can give me lots of tips! I've got dodgy knees and don't think I'd ever be fast but I actually really started to enjoy it and it helped my fitness levels (and figure!) no end!

    How are you today? X

  • I don't know really. Had psychology and talked a bit more in depth about how I felt at the birth and I felt it made a lot of sense what she was saying but shes only booked in another 2 sessions and then said I'm making so much progress she's not sure I will need anymore which has worried me a bit x

  • See how it goes...if you've only just touched the difficult areas probably two sessions won't be enough. Tell her and maybe there'll be access to several more. I know govt have allocated more funds to maternal mental health so hopefully there'll be the budget to extend the sessions.

    Do you have any Easter plans? X

  • I know but she knows we have only just touched on it this week and it was when she went to book in my next appointment. She booked in for next Wednesday and then the week after and then said we'll see then as that may be enough for you but I feel that's not enough and it's naking me feel extra anxious. Plus she said before I was discharged a full birth plan would be put in place for next time and so she must have forgotten about that. I'm not going to be brave enough to tell her though x

  • I'm finding it too difficult to handle at the moment. Without the psychology support I can't do it on my own and I just feel like they don't really want to help me so I'm wasting my time. I think they think it would just be easier if I wasn't here, everyone would x

  • I've put a lot of thought into things and I don't feel like there is any other way out of this situation. I know there isn't any ofher way and I don't even know how to put into words how much I can't cope with any of it. Psychology are just going to abandon me and I can't wait for that to happen anymore I just can't x

  • Hi

    Sorry I get intermittent notifications when someone posts so didn't see your last message.

    Leanne, the feelings of not being able to carry on, there being no way out, not being able to cope, not wanting to disappear all show how desperate and depressed you are. I've been there! I know what it's like. My live felt so bleak, I felt so consumed with anxiety I couldn't even imagine how I would get through the day.

    There are always solutions. You have to talk to someone as you can't carry this burden alone. Your husband, friend, family - someone to go with you to tell them exactly how awful you feel and that must be so so desperate if you see not being here, suicide as the only solution.

    Maybe a first step would be adjusting meds. Proper, timely therapy would help hugely but I strongly thing that the upset, the messing about, the infrequent sessions are what has made you plummet emotionally over the last few months. I know money is an issue but look into private counselling - it won't be forever - but someone who you pay should take you more seriously with less chance of cancellations .

    bacp.co.uk/seeking_therapis...

    Please please contact the Samaritans if you feel desperate whether you'd seriously consider taking your life or not. They are brilliant and can advise and listen to you X

  • Let me know when you're free next week incl weekend and we'll do the virtual run! X

  • How are you Leanne? How was the Easter break? X

  • Sorry I haven't replied to you, not been in a great place. Didn't do much over easter, finding things very difficult. Had psychology on Wednesday and found it hard. She spoke about having other children and it's really playing on my mind. Struggling to be able to focus on being here. Want to just hurt myself all the time x

  • Don't apologise - you post on here as and when you want to.

    I'm sorry life is tough for you atm. How's work going? Do you find it a distraction?

    What aspect of having more children is bothering you? It can be upsetting when you're struggling for many reasons .

    When do you have the next GP appt? X

  • Works going ok. A little bit of a distraction but sometimes I find it hard as I find it all a bit too much.

    I'm not too sure really, I just know when people talk about it I feel so anxious. Psychology reckon they will put things in place to support me but I don't believe them and I'll be on my own and it will all go wrong again.im having such urges to just make it all go away x

  • Hi

    Talk of babies an stir up a whole raft of emotions - hurt, pain, jealousy , envy , regret . Generally the antenatal care tends to be better...I had a child post PNI and because of that I had consultant Care also.

    The urges to self harm, are they getting more frequent/more intense. Please tell someone - maybe you could have more support which would help you or meds could be tweaked? I know it's probably the last thing you feel like doing but it would be worth itx

  • I know, the psychologist said how I will have a lot more support next time but I just can't believe them because this time I have had to fight at every turn for it so I can't see how next time I get pregnant that support is just going to be handed to me on a plate!

    I don't think it's worth trying to get more support off them because they didn't really want to give me support they have given me. Sometimes it's more intense, not always. Sometimes it's so intense I'm not entirely sure how I manage to stop myself but sometimes I can keep a handle on it x

  • I feel like I'm losing my mind with it all. I'm so useless to everyone, I never do anything right and I know everyone thinks I'm a waste of space. You're probably sick of me rambling on. I'm just a joke and everyone knows it, there is no point me even existing. I'm a waste of space being here x

  • Please please believe me the way you feel about yourself is the depression talking. You are viewing yourself negatively because of this. I know as I felt the same. Everything that went wrong was because of me, everyone hated me, I was no good at anything ..and so on. You almost have to retrain your mind to look at things from a different perspective.

    I'm not sick of you at all. This is your space to offload however and whenever you wish. We all need this.

    Re psychology, it's bloody tough. I had it two years after I got PNI and it knocked me for six. Saying that are you getting anything positive from it? Is it helping you in any way? It's normal for it to be hard initially as you're covering painful topics but in time the outcome should be a positive one. I do think that you should consider really telling her how you are and how you're feeling she'll be better able to judge how to pitch the sessions . Hang on in there X

  • I can't retrain it though. That's what I had to try and do this week for psychology but I can't bring myself to believe it. I hate myself too much and just feel like I'm being selfish hanging around here rather than just leaving everyone to it. I know everyone would be better off without me.

    I don't know what to think about psychology. I know I feel like they don't really want to help me and I spend the whole time tiptoeing around them but suppose some of the things she has said have been helpful.

    I'm just feeling like so much time is going on now and I'm exhausted from it all now. I just feel like taking a whole pack of tablets and drifting off to sleep and it all just goes away x

  • It takes time to retrain your thoughts a dos bloody hard work ! Don't give up. I understand the thought of ending it all can feel like a solution but it isn't. Life will be worth living again.

    I'm going through a bit of a shitty time (nothing seems to go the way I want it to) and I've noticed I feel a bit bleak, low and with that come the negative self critical thoughts. I find it hard to turn them around. Take small steps -focus on one thing and try and put a positive spin on it. That's your homework from me!

    Also I've noticed nowadays when I'm quite low I tend to be quite kind to myself - I take a step back try not to judge myself, take things calmly etc which does help.

    I just read this and thought it might help:-

    www3.forbes.com/leadership/...

    X

  • It just feels like the only solution. I'm being discharged from psychology now as they are happy with my progress so this is the end of the line with it all now.x

  • Oh Leanne I'm sorry! From what you've said I think it's made you feel worse . Please find a counsellor privately someone who can help you as it can make all the difference. Life can be wonderful again X

  • How are you this evening? X

  • I don't even know. I went to see the gp this morning and totally broke down. She offered to write to them but I know it will make it worse. If I wasn't such a disgusting waste of space they might have actually wanted to help me. Everyone is going to be better off without me x

  • I don't want to wake up tomorrow x

  • Big big hugs Leanne. You're not a waste of space - you've got so much to offer - you're clever, kind, thoughtful, fantastic mum. You've very depressed though and with that comes the low self esteem , low confidence , bleakness and it's horrible. Psychology have fucked this up (sorry can't think of any other term to describe this) - not because you're a waste of space as you describe yourself, but because individuals didn't communicate properly in the first instance and then the sessions were too far apart and so each time you covered a painful area you'd be left on your own to deal with it without any back up. You're too afraid to say exactly how you feel because of the earlier fuck up and the fact they've almost threatened you they'd discharge you if you got too bad. Also how can you trust someone who does that??

    Before this round of psychology you felt you were getting better and the above has set you back through their negligence. It makes me so mad!

    Tell your husband how low you are. You need someone close to keep an eye on you.

    Get some help privately. I like your GP - see if she can recommend someone. If not find someone locally.

    If you feel you'll harm yourself get help - even go to A&E, Samaritans .

    Be super kind to yourself - do nice things because you deserve it and keep talking x

  • I don't want anyone to keep an eye on me. I want to pluck up the strength and make it all go away and I don't want anyone to stop me doing it. She talks about helping other women with such passion but doesn't want to help me.x

  • I just need to go off alone and be done with it because there is nothing left for me now to fix this x

  • Please please don't do anything to harm yourself. This is one avenue you've gone down and it hasn't worked but there are others. You have an amazing child who needs you - the impact on him of you not being there now and later in life will be devastating.

    You are suffering dreadfully atm, that is clear. You're turning everything round and saying you're the cause they won't help you , you don't deserve their help, this or that haven't happened because of you - that's not true! You are displaying all the classic symptoms of depression. Please think about it. You have nothing to lose by trying other avenues of help whether that be telling your husband how you are, going to A&E, paying for counselling privately. You will turn things around and be happy again.

    I'm really worried about you. Have you made plans to harm yourself/end it all? Please please get help Leannex

  • Psychology have made me feel worthless. I just feel totally alone and I don't believe anyone can help me now.

    My husband knows roughly how I feel but just doesn't understand. No one understands how I'm feeling in my head and it's too much. I just need it all to go away. I can't confide in anyone else now, why would they want to listen to me? Why would anyone want to waste their time with me.

    I know what I need to do now. X

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