Immune system and SARS-CoV-2

[HeronNS]

Couldn't be sure where to post this in our FAQ Covid section but I think it's important. Confirms what a lot of us have been suspecting:

nih.gov/news-events/news-re...

[Missus835]

Wow!

[Bcol]

Morning HeronNS, that is a really interesting study. I wonder if the results would have been the same if the group that hadn't had Covid but had already had different Covid vaccinations I.e. the OAZ ones or the Moderna one.

[123-go]

Thank you, HeronNS: interesting 👍.

[Broseley]

I couldn't get on it, it said the site cannot be reached. Can anyone summarise the contents please?

[HeronNS in reply to Broseley]

Try again later.

It's referring to damage to the immune system caused by covid (not covid vaccine). The damage does, however, appear to affect the efficacy of mRNA vaccines in relation to T-cell activation. Or something like that. They think we need vaccines which will specifically enhance T-cell activation to make up for this.

[HeronNS in reply to Broseley]

Were you ever able to get on?

[Broseley in reply to HeronNS]

Just read it. I'm interested to see this: "The researchers found that vaccination of people who had never been infected with SARS-CoV-2 induced robust CD4+ and CD8+ T-cell responses to the virus’ spike protein. In addition, these T cells produced multiple types of cell-signaling molecules called cytokines, which recruit other immune cells—including antibody-producing B cells—to fight pathogens."

Cytokines are, correct me if I'm wrong, the cause of PMR symptoms? So maybe that explains why some people, including myself, who have never had Covid, developed PMR after their first vaccination?

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Broseley]

Specific cytokines - IL-6 but b-cells may also be involved.

That patients developed PMR after vaccination isn't surprising - other vaccines can trigger the immune system in the same way.

[Broseley in reply to PMRpro]

I wonder if the booster vaccines have the same effect and could therefore prolong your PMR?

Hubby is seriously reconsidering not having his next booster (Pfizer) as he was so ill last time, it made him more ill than when he had covid! (He doesn't have PMR but undifferentiated connective tissue disorder, also started after the first vaccination.) Where as I had the Moderna, with no effects whatsoever.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Broseley]

I had the Moderna for the first 2 jabs - I had a flare after the second, I had the Pfizer for the bivalent one in November - and it woke up my atrial fibrillation very thoroughly. I think it is something to do with the bivalent version ...

[HeronNS in reply to Broseley]

We are all different. I had Pfizer for basic series, then first booster, very little reaction, just sore arm. Then decided to switch to Moderna for second booster and had very strong reaction, very much like the one I had to Shingrix which wiped me out for a day! Then Moderna again (fall dose) when time for bivalent and that also caused a reaction and I remember feeling a little ill, not so much extremely fatigued as from the first Moderna. On Monday this week had spring dose and would have liked Novavax but it's just too difficult to access here, so had Pfizer again. Barely any reaction at all. The needle prick was so painless I was actually relieved when there was slight arm soreness the following day! However I suspect Moderna may have "encouraged" exacerbation of hitherto mostly latent heart condition, although of course no proof.

And since Shingrix vaccination (mid 2021/early 2022) taper from a previously intransigent flare starting late 2020 has proceeded slowly but without hiccup.

[Broseley in reply to HeronNS]

That's good then, hope it continues!

[HeronNS in reply to Broseley]

Yes it is . But of course my version of PMR was not triggered initially by a vaccination. Perhaps because PMR seems to be triggered by many different situations, unique to each individual, reaction to vaccines also varies from person to person?

[Broseley in reply to HeronNS]

Yes, I agree. I don't know enough about the immune system to know why this is the case.

[HeronNS in reply to Broseley]

I think fallout from the covid pandemic has stimulated more research into autoimmune conditions. It will be nice if eventually there are some positive developments in treatment.

[Broseley in reply to HeronNS]

And in causal links. I wonder if there are any figures anywhere for numbers before and after the pandemic?

[HeronNS in reply to Broseley]

A year or two I heard an interview on a science program with a researcher who specifically said they thought learning more about immune problems caused by covid would help the whole autoimmune community - or words to that effect.

Given the current minimisation of covid and sometimes outright denial of LC now I wonder.... Yet another opportunity to improve our way of life handed to us by the pandemic which has been rejected?

[Broseley in reply to HeronNS]

Unbelievable. The charity maybe could push for further research? There is also a lot of pressure from groups like the UK CV family, set up for people who have developed illnesses as a result of the Covid vaccine.

[DorsetLady PMRGCAuk volunteer in reply to Broseley]

Charity doesn’t have a bottomless purse unfortunately -

[HeronNS in reply to Broseley]

This is a worldwide problem. I thought I'd found the radio interview in question but when I tried to play it, it turned out to be something completely unrelated to the topic listed, so decided I'd wait and try again another day.

I still didn't find the other interview but I wonder if this is the researcher:

cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton...

[Broseley in reply to HeronNS]

Sounds like it could be. Certainly the article mentions auto immune diseases as being possibly linked to Covid.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

Sorry HeronNS - I wondered what you meant by "what a lot of us had been suspecting"? Feeling a bit dense this morning ...

[HeronNS in reply to PMRpro]

Covid-caused damage to the immune system.

There's a reason so many people are repeatedly sick this year (adults in unprotected workplaces, children in schools and daycares) and it's nothing to do with a few months social distancing in 2020.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to HeronNS]

Not just Covid to blame though - 2 years of not getting infections didn't help the immune system keep on its toes either but it is rather difficult to control for that ...