I know that aging obviously leads to muscle wastage. I have had to give up swimming but still walk and work on the allotment as well as housework. I just wondered if anyone had any ideas on particular exercises they have found helpful or branded supplements. I have been taking collagen powder but found that much of it comes from dubious sources - particularly the bovine variety.
Any thoughts on ideas for rebuilding muscle with ... - PMRGCAuk
Any thoughts on ideas for rebuilding muscle with PMR. Collagen? Particular exercise regimes??
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Alchemy8
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See if you can access aquafit classes and do your own hydrotherapy. I had a few sessions of hydrotherapy at the hospital but the regional rheuma charity arranges "water gymnastics" and my physio sent me off to do that and now all my physio appointments are hands on so I have the best of both worlds. An hour of aquafit - and this week followed by 15 mins in the outdoor spa pool now it is open for the winter. They are terrific when it is snowing 
- the view of the ski run is a bit distant though
I had done aquafit for the entire 5 years I had PMR without diagnosis and pred and I really missed it when I moved here where there was no such option at the time. I was an off-peak member at a Bannatynes gym with a pool and aqua was on offer every day - relatively speaking, cheap as chips! You need to start low key but then I was able to build up over time to the most active in the group and most of them were younger than me! I also did Pilates and Iyengha yoga on the same ticket.
Most impressive dedication PMRpro. We do have aquafit classes at our local swimming pool. Did you find that the combination of all these helped/helps to keep your muscles strong and ease the stiffness??
Yes - and my physio here was insistent I do it as rehab after a really bad flare mixed with severe myofascial pain syndrome problems last spring. It is a really good way of strengthening muscles gently with support for the joints in the water. Needs to be a warm pool though
Why have you had to give up swimming? I find that a good way of exercise and I love it.
When I was initially diagnosed with post viral immune deficiency syndrome I went from 40-50 lengths (1Km ) three times a week to bed (on the doctor's orders with the net result that I seized up!) . Then Covid struck. I have been back twice and of course overdid it. Got in the speedy groove automatically! Then various reasons for not taking it up again from that fact I used to like going early but now find it hard to rise at the crack (rest seems more important) and dislike the chlorine. I keep saying I must have another go but find it hard enough to fit in with all the other "musts"! Do you find it helps with your muscles Piglette?
It definitely helps me. I do find though once you stop it is hard to get back in the habit again. I suppose that is true of a lot of activities, you think I won't bother today and suddenly you realise you have not been swimming for three months!
That sounds similar to a lot of people when it comes to getting back to certain exercise activity that they were used to squeezing into a packed day. Me included at one time.You mention you have a lot of " musts" , are they all things you need to do or things that you feel you "must" or "should" do?
It's often hard, but to get the right well paced daily regime to help our recovery we often need to look at our activity , write a list , then only leave on the list the things we need to do or want to do , and cross off all the things we feel we have to , should do or must do. A balance of rest and activity helps reduce physical stress and makes recovery easier.
Improving our physical strength after illness is definitely something we need to do , but we often also need to rearrange our previous schedule to accommodate doing exercise activity to the most optimal times in the day for our energy and pain levels , allowing rest time on either side of physical workout, either work and chores or classes and physio.
As the others have said Hydrotherapy, swimming , walking and exercise in water and Aquafit classes for Arthritis or AS , are some of the best ways to get a total muscle workout while reducing stress on the joints. Building up a walking programme slowly is also good and arms muscles, balance , and posture , can be aided by using Nordic walking sticks. There are even Nordic Walking Clubs to join online. Low impact Pilates stretching and Tai Chi are also excellent full body exercises that can be practised each day in the home or at groups. Isometric exercises built up slowly also improve muscle strength and flexibility. Dancing for fun with friends , or at home to your favourite music, is a nice way to get fit again . Recumbent bikes can help increase muscle while putting less stress on the hips and lower back. Some people can cope with kayaking or gentle rowing after beginning to get back arm strength and it can improve wellbeing to get in the outdoors in a group.
Just remember to pace yourself .
Don't try and do anything at the pace, or for the time, you did it at before as your body is not ready for it and you will get delayed onset muscle soreness.
Build up slowly from within your comfort zone.
Consistent workouts are better than yo-yoing between exercise and then pain recovery.
It's better to think you could do a bit more than struggle to get to a number laos/ miles/ reps, and be laid up afterwards.
Hydrate well before , during and after exercise . Have a healthy snack like a banana , nuts etc. when you finish .
A good sleep pattern also helps in muscle recovery.
Supplements wise.
Your combined daily vitamin and mineral supplement taken after your fattiest meal of the day , plus Omega 3 , and Vitamin D , K2 , C and Magnesium help with recovery.
Get your Vitamin B 12 , Folate and Iron levels checked to see if these are low and you may need extra doses of these.
Q10 can be beneficial to some.
Garlic in the diet or supplements with food can help improve circulation which can be beneficial to muscle production and improving exercise endurance.
Collagen supplements do no more to help increase muscle strength , or increase , than adding animal based proteins to your diet . I have a connective tissue disease , called EDS , and collagen supplements have been researched to see if they make a significant difference and they don't in testing.
Foods that help collagen production are better.
You can manage on a vegetarian diet that includes eggs , yoghurt, dairy ( including lactofree) , nuts , soya, pulses etc.
Unfortunately, a vegan diet does not work well for collagen production as the type of Vitamin A and collagen does not covert well or metabolise in the way required to improve human collagen production.
A diet including chicken , pork , oily fish and shellfish , very lean occasional red meat , homemade bone broth for stews and soups ( it doesn't need this 2 day cooking nonsense either as the expensive fresh or powder based products claim) and offal, if you enjoy it , is better with the veggie options above.
Green leafy vegetables , Avacado , olive products, mushrooms , bananas , nuts , varied vegetables and fruits increase nutrient levels that help the body build muscle and improve Fatigue to help you to exercise.
Wow Blearyeyed! Thank you. A most impressive list of suggestions. Apart from the exercise - I go walking in a local arboretum twice a week plus housework etc. and am trying out Yamuna footwakers (working on the feet can really help legs and hips - developed by a US Pilates teacher who studied with the original founder) - I take the supplements you mentioned and the foods. Just need to watch the carbs as reducing red meats and meat protein really gives me hunger pangs! Though have cut out dairy for several years (prior to PMR).
As for collagen the bone boiling took up a lot of time and indeed the seaching for grass bred beef. I hoped that the powders would be similar in their effect but have read some nasty stories about using cow hide!!
Thank you again.
Did you cut out dairy because you are lactose intolerant?If so , try lactofree products but make sure they don't contain palm oil.
Probiotic live natural yoghurt and other dairy type products including eggs are a good source of calcium and protein . Probiotic yoghurt with some honey , nuts and berries is a great breakfast which also helps the digestion.
Making a dip for fresh veg or healthy snacks from probiotic yoghurt , tomato or Avacado , or your favourite herbs and spices is good for the digestion and reduces hunger pangs.
Try products which are high protein and low naturally in fat , including cheese types like Quark , Emmental, Jarlsberg and Edam .
Fermented foods like yoghurt and kefir are very good.
Increased protein intake from animal collagen based sources are a better way to create the nutrients and fuel for exercise and muscle building. It also helps improve your skin and eye health . Red Meat , Eggs and Offals contain the right type of Vitamin A to be converted for human use which effects skin , connective tissue and eye health , carrots don't cut it , unfortunately. If you eat no red meat at all you need to make sure you get enough dietary Vitamin B 12 from other sources like eggs , mushrooms , banana , yeast extracts , oats, nuts and dark green veg.
Including lean red meat once or twice a week is fine. Lean chicken , chicken on the bone , and lean pork and venison are all good choices too. If your concern is antibiotics used in large scale meat production , use your local butcher as they know their sources and eat organic and additive free.
Fish, especially oily fish and shellfish , are good protein sources packed with minerals and Omega 3 which help in restoring joint flexibility, good nerve health and reduce Inflammative responses.
Oily fish also improves the process of serotonin production which can improve sleep , energy release and reduce rebound nerve pain in recovery.
Nuts , nut butters , beans , soya , pulses , peas and lentils are good vegetarian sources. If you are allowed eostrogen rich foods with your health profile and medications , eostrogen rich foods are excellent for improving collagen production and can promote weight loss from areas that may have increased fat stores while on steroids , insulin balance and skin health.
Emmental has 30g fat per 100g, Cheddar 33g. Wouldn't say that was much of a difference!
If you like a hard , tangy cheese Emmental is considered better for reasons other than just fat content . It has a higher probiotic rating , a lower pH and a lower salt content than cheddar , especially the mature varieties.
Bit rubbery sometimes though. Cheese is about texture too.
True , I get unsliced and have a chunk instead of a slice for that reason but at least it isn't as bad as halloumi , which is also apparently bad for weight loss too, like the blue cheeses ( which I can't stand)and goat cheese.I do like a bit of Sage Derby at Christmas though.
I used to be able to get SD and Wensleydale with cranberries as well as Double Gloucester and Red Leicester in an Austrian shop in Innsbruck but haven't been there since Covid and OH having retired. There was a sighting of cheddar in the village but it seems to have gone into hiding again ...
Oh no, that's a shame. Proper Sage Derby us a rare sighting even in the UK but we can get stilton and cranberries and stilton and apricot all year , plus I tried a nice stilton and Christmas fruits last year which I might buy again this year. I only get to have the odd sliver but it is nice on a digestive.
I can get little pots of Stilton (for a price) but it isn't my favourite cheese by any means. We do have some lovely cheeses here though.
Yes, Austrian cheeses are lovely . The stilton is white so more like the Wensleydale which I also like. The Snowdonia company do a lovely smoked cheddar, but it's best cut fresh as that one is naturally smoked up the road from me rather than the mini wheels in wax. There are some lovely Welsh cheeses nobody has ever heard of too. I do like the double Gloucester with chives and a nice crumbly Cheshire . I've got to be really careful with the liver issues now , unfortunately, cheese was one of my few left over pleasures.
I'm very partial to Caboc - a double cream cheese rolled in oatmeal 
But it rarely gets out of Scotland!
Actually cheese make me quite phlegmy - probably due to internal dampness (Chinese Medicinal term) which I don't want to encourage. Not that I don't love cheese. Manchego is a particular favourite!
Have you been checked for Lactose intolerance?Phelgminess is a common symptom of it.
A nutritionist once told me to go dairy free when you have a chest infection or cold as dairy can cause additional mucus which you don't need when you are congested.
I thought there was a study that showed it didn't ... Found it
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/215...
Oh good , I'll take a look , it does seem to help maybe it depends on the person and their digestion.
My experience of swimming and PMR is that I was swimming 50 length twice a week before Covid. Towards the end of Covid lockdowns I was suffering pains and was nervous about picking up Covid in the changing rooms so didn’t return to swimming. However when I was diagnosed with high blood pressure I realised I must get back to swimming. I had to lower my expectations and take it very easy getting back into it. Like everything else with PMR we have to pace ourselves. I now just do 20 very slow lengths three times a week and it has had a brilliant effect on my blood pressure. I was also surprised when the lady who cleans the changing rooms remarked to me that I walk much better after my swim than before.
I would say get back to swimming but lower your expectations.
I have a very insistent friend - we would get up at 7.30am for our thrice weekly swim before Covid lockdown and my diagnosis which virtually coincided. Not sure if I can handle that early now!! And we all need moral support. 😀. Once I start up a habit I am good at sticking to it. It is just getting there!
I get plenty of exercise with my lower body by walking and biking. My upper body was not getting anything until I went out and bought a very light dumbbell (8 lbs.). I was doing 100 reps with various arm exercises (5 different exercises x 10 reps x both arms) every day. It was a good workout, without knocking me out (and having a flare). Seemed to make a difference. Eating more protein helped out too.
Tai chi.
health.harvard.edu/staying-...
Hi HeronNS. I was a practitioner of Chi Gong but that went out of the window with PMR. Stretching is definitely necessary.
I learned Tai Chi after diagnosis and treatment, but had to stop for about a year when I hurt my knees (in two separate, different, stupid accidents). Taught myself again from YouTube (thankfully had been able to take classes initially so didn't take long to pick it up again) and now I go through the 24 form three times in a row every day. I find it has really helped me. I think Tai Chi and Qigong are related, Tai Chi developed from Qigong.
Pilates, yoga and walking 😁
Definitely aqua fit and swimming as the water supports your body. I also use resistance bands a good way of rebuilding muscle, not in the pool ! Lol
Believe it or not I have float weights and resistance bands as part of my exercise in the hydropool with the physio, although I think it is one of those ," Don't do this at Home" activities unless you do it with professional supervision and then a water buddy. The weights are covered in sponge , I always feel like Thor when I lift one up and make growling noises ... Yes , I'm surprised they let me in too!
Pilates for muscles combined with flexibility, but you need to find the right class because quality varies enormously. I'd suggest studio sessions first to go at your own pace and learn the techniques. Yoga is not great at building muscles and strength unless you do one of the hard exercise types which are beyond us here. Yoga is great for other things.
Yes , Yoga , except for gentle warm up rotations ( which isn't great for muscle building but does improve relaxation making exercise easier) is not great for arthritic , connective tissue problems , or, inflammatory joints as the pressure put through the joint and the breathing techniques can cause an inflammatory response in the joint .
Indian yoga adopted things from the early western body building/keep fit movements (eg Charles Atlas), combined this with traditional stuff and then exported it back to us. Some people are unpicking some of the worst of it now. I don't see how pranayama can cause inflammation in joints though.
I did aquafit three times a week for a few years before PMR and continued with it successfully after diagnosis, albeit at a slower pace. When an employee strike closed the pool for six weeks one winter my strength and endurance went way downhill. That was years ago and I'm still trying to reach previous levels.
However, thanks to a small pool at our home in Panama water exercise helps keep my muscles in pretty good shape for 5 or six months of the year. I also so physio exercises for lower back issues and have recently increased my daily step count. Some of the water exercised have also increased and help maintain back muscles.
Bottom line, I love the pool for exercise.
Keep it simple. Do what is the most convenient and that you can do at least 3-4 times a week. If you like swimming, that is excellent whole body exercise. It is mostly focused on upper body though, so you should add something for your legs. Walking or hiking or biking or whatever rimes with it is an option. Diet is also important. To build your muscles you need extra calories in form of protein. Don't neglect the rest, 8 hours of sleep at least, because that is when the muscles are actually rebuilt.
hi I do walking with a weighted vest , and I also do yoga class once a week, it’s vinney yoga which means you can adjust the posture’s according to your ability. In addition I try to do the weight bearing exercises, which help with muscle strength. It’s a shame you can’t do swimming as that’s probably the best.
Good luck
Carole
🙏🙏🙏Thank you all for your feedback. Been very helpful to refocus on what can be done. We all have to keep positive and great to hear how many of you are finding different but powerful solutions to joint, muscle and tendon issues. I shall seriously think about the swimming again but not quite yet. Temperatures plummeting in the UK. On the other had it may mean the pool is empty. Am still a little chary of getting Covid. Good health to you all.
Good tip . When planning when your swim at a pool is best during the week go on Google. Put in the details of the centre you want to use. You will see a little chart that shows you which hours are their busy times and which are quietest. You can click arrows left and right to see the chart for different days. Then you can choose the swim sessions available at the quietest , most relaxing hours.
It is a good tip for choosing an social activity actually, including going out to eat , the cinema , theatre etc. It allows you to have a more enjoyable , less stressful time when you go out particularly if you aren't up to crowds or excessive noise ( and helps to ensure there is parking closer to the entrance ) .
Hey that's great. I've just checked it out and seen "Popular Times". Thank you so much BE!
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