Vitamin D supplement

[Booklist]

Have been watching Dr John Campbell on U Tube and he is recommending taking a large amount of Vit D to avoid catching Covid or any other virus infection. It also lessens the effect of these viruses. At present I just have the vit D in Calcichew - 10 micrograms , and thats when I remember to take it!. My question is how much should I take to avoid virus infections during the winter, and, as PMR is an autoimmune disease, will it help or make my symptoms worse. I have had PMR for a year and have tapered from 20 mg to 8.5, and am feeling quite well at the moment .

[Sophiestree]

I have been taking 4,000 iU a day for over 10 years....

Funnily enough I was talking to my pharmacist and he agreed that 4,000 would be his recomended dose.

didn't mean I didn't get covid though.....

[simps999 in reply to Sophiestree]

Please can you say what vit D you take ?

Is the spray one as affective as I would prefer to use a spray rather than take even more tablets. I take chewable adcal only at the moment and wasn't aware I needed to take more vitD

[Sophiestree in reply to simps999]

Hi, I use gel capsules not the spray, but I see you're in the UK and Holland & Barrett have a good deal on the spray at the moment

hollandandbarrett.com/shop/...

might be worth a try. I have an iron spray as I'm anaemic but am terrible remembering to use it.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to simps999]

My husband used a spray - seemed to do the job. I finished up the bottles after his death but personally I far prefer the one tiny tablet!

[simps999 in reply to PMRpro]

Thank you. I remember using a spray before from BetterYou range of products.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to simps999]

He really struggled to swallow anything so the spray was ideal for him.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

While John Campbell does have a lot of very good articles to his name, he has a few rather dodgier ones too. There really isn't any proof that vit D protects against catching Covid, it might possibly lessen the severity of the dose you get since low vit D is associated with severe infections. However - obesity, advanced age (>65), being male (and dark skin) are all also associated with low vit D levels and severe Covid, so it isn't possible to isolate a specific cause because of such confounders.

bmj.com/content/378/bmj.o1822

That said, like Sophiestree, I take 4000 I.U. a day, rarely get infections and haven't yet, to my knowledge, had Covid. But I do wear a mask most of the time I'm out and usually avoid crowds.

[Karenjaninaz in reply to PMRpro]

Recent studies show no differences in infections between Vit D takers and non takers.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Karenjaninaz]

Think that is the link I gave from BMJ

[DodgyName in reply to PMRpro]

I'm not sure where these dodgier ones come from. He has published, in the BMJ, presenting a study demonstrating the Vitamin D is not effective against Covid.

[piglette]

There was an article in the BMJ (Britush Medical Journal) saying that a couple of recent studies have found that Vitamin D had no effect on helping Covid. bmj.com/content/378/bmj.o1822

[GOOD_GRIEF]

You should already be taking vitamin D and Calcium if you're taking pred. That helps guard your bones from the effects of pred.

Excess vitamins will not protect you from viruses. Vaccines will.

Instead, follow grandma's advice: Everything in moderation including abstinence.

[RachelJDH]

I think that all residents of the UK should take Vitamin D3 in the winter and you need D to absorb calcium tho I understand that the jury is out on how much calcium is absorbed. I am not sure that doses much higher that 500 mg of D (which is 500 IU) per day are any more effective tho. This is the dose of my calcichew tablets. Mind I don't think vitamin is particularly harmful and you body would probably expel excess in urine.

[Broseley in reply to RachelJDH]

Vitamin d is fat soluble so will not be expelled in the urine. Too much can be harmful and cause calcium to build up in the body. The NHS website recommends 10 micrograms or 400 IU for the average person. nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins-...

[RachelJDH in reply to Broseley]

Thank you I did not know that 😀. I think this illustrates that as it gets harder to see/speak to a doctor we find ourselves seeking information elsewhere and all the risks that might entail. My 500mg of Vit D was prescribed by my doctor .... she had to look it up though!

I do hate the steroid tablets and all the debilitating side effects I have. Steroids are a miracle and a curse! 😬

[Broseley in reply to RachelJDH]

I have to say I have been lucky and had no side effects from the steroids, only at 40mg when I had palpitations and pulsating tinnitus.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to RachelJDH]

"doses much higher that 500 mg of D (which is 500 IU) per day" - 500 IU is 12.5mcg - micrograms. I really don't recommend 500mg, which 1000 times as much.

While the NHS website recommends 400 IU, that is as a supplement, assuming that the person is making vit D by the action of sunlight on the skin. However, that only works between 11am and 3pm between May and September in the UK. And age also has a role to play - even when you do sunbathe, you produce about a quarter of the amount at age 60 that you did at age 20. Clothing, a suntan and sunscreens all reduce the amount you make.

If you are deficient you need a short term very high dose and then a higher daily supplement, at least 2000 IU is recommended here - and we are at a latitude where theoretically we can make vit D from the sun all year round. But even some people who work outside all year round are vit D deficient.

The UK is years behind on vit D.

[Sharitone]

I take1000 IU on top of the 800 that comes with the calcium. I feel vindicated in this as my latest blood tests this summer showed my vit D level was within the acceptable range, albeit nearer the lower limit than the higher. So I'm definitely not overdosing. I'm supposed to be severely immuno-supressed, but I don't really get colds and haven't had Covid so far. Though that may be partly because I'm reasonable careful with mixing socially.

[Poshcards]

My rheumy consultant said 4000 is too much and I should drop it to 400 per day and my count is very low x

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Poshcards]

He's wrong - if your vit D is low and your skin factory isn't working 100% (and it can't in the UK at our age) then you need a high dose booster course: to bring the blood level up to normal range. THEN you need a daily dose that maintains that level summer and winter. You get very little in diet - wild oily fish (about half a pound a day), eggs (approx, 17 a day), a few pounds of sun irradiated mushrooms - and that really is about all you'll get it from in diet. The blood level is at its highest in late September/early October in the northern hemisphere. 400IU is way below the amount the body requires per day, I think about 7000 IU but I can't find it listed - and even the recommended dose of supplements in the guidelines is double that at 800 IU. For healthy people that probably is enough but we aren't healthy - being on pred affects the vit D levels in the body and autoimmune disorders are associated with low vit D, it isn't known if that is cause or effect but a study in Finland giving babies vit D supplements at birth lead to a large reduction in the rate of Type 1 diabetes in their teenage years. Type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune disorder.

health.harvard.edu/staying-...

is a fair and balanced article - they approve up to 4000 IU though not above that.

This is better

hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions...

I know that to maintain my vit D level I NEED 4000 IU, it is checked annually and just falls steadily unless I take that. Very low vit D can cause symptoms very similar to PMR and is actually one of the rule outs in the diagnosis of PMR. Anyone who has asthma or other chest problems also does better with a good vit D level. And taking that amount has coincided with my bone density still being in the acceptable range after over 11 years on pred. - vit D is particularly important in bone health.

[Poshcards in reply to PMRpro]

Hi, I will inform my brilliant consultant on Monday at my checkupthat she is wrong then xx

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Poshcards]

If it were me I wouldn't be that blunt! But telling people 4000 IU is too high is a bit sweeping - it depends on the patient! I just ignore them and do my own thing having made sure there is good scientific backing for what I am doing - but all my doctors here know I take 4000 IU and no-one has ever blinked - and the local osteoporosis guru expressed amazement at my dexa results after 11 years on pred and said, keep doing what you are doing! Even stopped muttering about bisphosphonates ...

[nuigini]

I've been taking 4000 IU a day for many years without any problem and believe it led to suffering only mild symptoms when I had covid in early 2021.

[nuigini]

I found this article extremely interesting.

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

[Chris_1236]

I take 5700 IU per day and aim to maintain ~90-100 ng/ml serum level.

This study was just published a week ago:

nature.com/articles/s41598-...

[SnazzyD]

Great you’re much improved. You might find this podcast interesting from the people who did the ZOE study. It features an expert who has been involved in large studies over years about various supplements. Not Covid though.

joinzoe.com/learn/podcast-t...

I do worry about claims that confuse avoiding catching Covid and doing better when you’ve got it.