STATINS: I know that several people take statins. I... - PMRGCAuk

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STATINS

piglette profile image
44 Replies

I know that several people take statins. I thought you may be interested in New European Guidelines which ‘Drastically’ reduce statin eligibility. In fact they essentially “eliminate a statin indication in women.”

medscape.com/viewarticle/97...

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piglette
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44 Replies
PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador

Snap - saw it the other day but it has just appeared in the inbox and I was debating posting it!

Hope the spare cardiologist here has read it - it will at least save the argument ...

piglette profile image
piglette in reply toPMRpro

It is what we have been saying all along!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply topiglette

Quite. But they'll carry on squabbling about it ...

nuigini profile image
nuigini in reply toPMRpro

Me too!

SheffieldJane profile image
SheffieldJane

Very grateful! Ammunition. GP pressure the other week.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply toSheffieldJane

Some doctors aren't happy because it is so different from the UK guidelines ...

calibriel profile image
calibriel

Interesting. I have just been offered statins - in an a text! - following my first blood pressure annual review with my new GP surgery. I’m certainly not going to go on them (I’m already on 4 different prescription drugs, one taken just to reduce side effects of one of the others) and I’m a bundle of symptoms and side effects: at least not without a discussion about my test results - I haven’t even been told what they are! - and possible alternative approaches.

piglette profile image
piglette in reply tocalibriel

You can and should be offered your test results by law in UK. Just ask for them.

calibriel profile image
calibriel in reply topiglette

Thanks. Yes, I’ve booked a phone appointment, and expect to discuss the whole issue then - also the offer of a shingles vaccine I raised on the forum a week or two ago.

KASHMIRI1 profile image
KASHMIRI1

I think we need to be careful about avoiding statins without them my husband would certainly be dead.

SheffieldJane profile image
SheffieldJane in reply toKASHMIRI1

I am sure I have read something that indicates that Statins are much more effective for men. Sorry I can’t be clearer, maybe someone remembers the research paper?

DorsetLady profile image
DorsetLadyPMRGCAuk volunteer in reply toSheffieldJane

PMRpro often quotes this - and has linked studies re age certainly. Sure she'll link anything if she has it to hand...

SheffieldJane profile image
SheffieldJane in reply toDorsetLady

I knew it was a reliable source.

KASHMIRI1 profile image
KASHMIRI1 in reply toSheffieldJane

Good morning l would just say that I spent many weeks at Bournemouth heart club attending talks and gym sessions and the comment that statins are less suitable for women never came up.

SheffieldJane profile image
SheffieldJane in reply toKASHMIRI1

You seem a bit rattled by me. Sorry, that is never my intention. I am just a patient muddling along. I am so glad that your husband’s life was saved by Statins.

KASHMIRI1 profile image
KASHMIRI1 in reply toSheffieldJane

Apologies if l have upset you. I certainly didn't mean to. I have just had a bit to much contact with strokes, heart attacks and death on my side and my husband's side of our families. Thank you for doing your best

SheffieldJane profile image
SheffieldJane in reply toKASHMIRI1

I can see that. Thank you.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply toKASHMIRI1

That is probably because it doesn't fit with their mantra.

I has been said for some years that there is little protective effect of statins in women who have not previously had a cardiovascular event. This changes for women AFTER they have had one or if they are at high risk, they protect from a second event, and they protect men from a first event as well as subsequent ones. The data were pooled in the clinical trials and there probably weren't as many women. It is well known that women and men react differently to many drugs and present very differently in cardiovascular events. But studies almost never reflect that fact.

There is of course the usual range of papers presenting evidence for and against. Statins increase the risk of developing Type 2 diabetes and both times I tried a statin I had a massive PMR flare. So for me - thanks but no thanks.

KASHMIRI1 profile image
KASHMIRI1 in reply toPMRpro

Well after seeing someone in the family drop dead of a massive cholesterol related earth attack and another undergoing bypass surgery it is yes please for me

piglette profile image
piglette in reply toKASHMIRI1

Statins are excellent in some cardiovascular circumstances, it was just unfortunate that people gave them a bad name for over egging them.

KASHMIRI1 profile image
KASHMIRI1 in reply topiglette

That is very true at one time just about everyone was advised to take them. Maybe with an almighty push from the pharmaceutical companies.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply toKASHMIRI1

That is still the case - and they have been trying to extend the age range even further, Very often they are medicalising normal things by saying everyone over 45 should be on statins. One problem though is that in older patients, some are made ill by having too low cholesterol - just as the increasing lowering of the recommended BP levels makes many elderly patients dizzy and liable to fall because the blood flow to the brain is reduced. That also can lead to poor peripheral blood flow and lack of oxygen supply to the feet and hands, Not always good.

piglette profile image
piglette in reply toPMRpro

I think one idiot suggested we should start on statins when we are born!!!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply topiglette

OMG!!!!!!! But THINK of the profits ...

piglette profile image
piglette in reply toPMRpro

💷💶💴💵🪙💸

MrsNails profile image
MrsNails

I saw that yesterday - obviously costing too much? How cynical am l?…..

Flivoless profile image
Flivoless

A few weeks back, during a telephone chat with GP (his request not mine 😱), he asked whether I would "like" to go on statins as a preventative measure for something that might or might not happen. I politely declined.🤷‍♂️

pegpowell profile image
pegpowell in reply toFlivoless

I wish I had been given the opportunity to take statins years ago as I would not now be fighting Peripheral Arterial Disease (PAD).

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply topegpowell

Is there any research to say if statins prevent that please? I'm interested in this topic

pegpowell profile image
pegpowell in reply totangocharlie

I am sure there is. I can only report that the statin I take for the last year, Rosuvastatin Calcium, has reduced the cholesterol produced by my liver, along with with a blood thinner/dialator, that takes away the pain in my legs and reduced my lipid panel numbers so that I can again walk and perhaps not have a stroke or lose my foot or leg. I have been on pred for six years, now down to 3-/2 1/2 mgs, originally 15.

I am 84 but my cholesterol levels were high years ago when my MD negated the idea that I should worry about the numbers because of my active physical condition.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply totangocharlie

I don't think you can say that with certainty although it is said they help reduce symptoms.

frontiersin.org/articles/10...

piglette profile image
piglette in reply totangocharlie

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl.... The sad thing is statins are an excellent drug for cardiovascular problems. It was just the whole thing got out of hand it being suggested everyone over forty should be on them if I remember rightly.

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie

I've been thinking they're a Big pharma scam for years as they are prescribed to a very wide population solely based on age but I've had fierce debates with GPs who say they save lives by preventing strokes and heart attacks. They genuinely believe that statins work so can't understand why people wouldn't want them. One pointed out that in the last generation people were far more likely to die of strokes and heart attacks than they do these days, average life expectancy has gone up and people are living longer and it's due to preventative measures like this. Hopefully continuing research will reveal the truth, they probably do help some 'at higher risk' people but I don't need to take them just because of my age.

Bcol profile image
Bcol

I may well have read this wrongly but as far as I could see the author of this study was against the new guidelines and felt that the US and UK guidelines should be the ones being used.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply toBcol

I think you are correct. But I have a fight with one of the cardios here - these guidelines might help me in my refusal to take statins as they make me ill!!!

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply toPMRpro

I agree and hope you can convince her/him. I can see very little if any point in doctors trying to make patients take a possibly preventative drug if it is already know they will make the patient ill. If the downsides of a drug far out way the upsides then not taking it is a no brainer.

piglette profile image
piglette

Dr Malcolm Kendrick mentions the fact that statins do not help women over a certain age and refers to a lot of research in his book “The Great Cholesterol Con”. There were court cases against him and the BMJ by people who had a financial interest in promoting statins. He also wrote “A Statin Nation”, which is quite an eye opener. Both books are very easy to read and quite amusing.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply topiglette

There is also not felt to be any benefit for over 75s ...

piglette profile image
piglette in reply toPMRpro

Dr Kendrick really goes into great detail on that. I do remember the court case on statins where the defendants were labelled “statin deniers” whose “deadly propaganda” had endangered lives. …”. I think we have discussed it on this board.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply topiglette

No doubt ...

piglette profile image
piglette

In the Telegraph today “ Stay on statins for life or risk losing heart protection benefits, research suggests”. digitaleditions.telegraph.c...

Bcol profile image
Bcol

That makes for an interesting read, although they talk about people being on 40mg. I've only ever been on 5mg so guess it's probably neither here nor there for me.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply toBcol

40mg of what though? The figures for the doses do vary widely.

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply toPMRpro

Just says 40mg daily dose. You have also piqued my interest as I just assumed Statins were equallish, but looking online I see that Atorvastatin and Rosuvastatin are called higher intensity statins. Apparently 20mg of Atorvastatin is the Nice recommendation or up to 80mg for Pre-existing CVD. Not sure where my 5mg sits in that.

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