Healthy bones - but don't want to take too many s... - PMRGCAuk

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Healthy bones - but don't want to take too many supplements? What to eat ...

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador

I thought people might find this article interesting - made my mouth water!

womenshealthnetwork.com/bon...

92 Replies

Very informative, thanks!

Thanks for that delicious article! I love blueberries 🫐 and like and do all the others too! Don’t know Natto! I don’t think Tesco sells that, probably a Waitrose item! 🤣

123mossie profile image
123mossie in reply to autumnlass

Natto is fermented soya beans, apparently not to western palates. I take a supplement made from natto, in tablet form.

Great article. Reflects what my daughter (nutritionist) told me early on after my diagnosis. She created a food plan and corresponding menu that includes daily yoghurt, mixed berries (incl blueberries), and weekly onions, tomatoes, salmon, seeds/nuts, and green veg such as broccoli, kale, etc. Somewhat of a low carb/sugar/salt modified Mediterranean diet, complete with recipes. So I was definitely put on the right track.

I do still take a calcium supplement (650mg daily), and magnesium along with K2 and D3. So far, so good.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to PMRCanada

I should up the onions, which I love but OH complains bitterly when I cook with them!!! can't get my head around using kale - but I eat more broccoli than most families would manage ;) Unfortunately, the fresh salmon here is farmed, maybe I should try the frozen wild stuff ...

123-go profile image
123-go in reply to PMRpro

We have the frozen wild stuff. 🙂

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to 123-go

Frustratingly it seems in Nova Scotia (of all places!) it's nearly impossible to get anything other than farmed salmon - and that being produced in the most environmentally damaging way possible. Very cross about this. Also wild salmon which used to spawn in rivers associated with the Bay of Fundy is now listed as endangered. 😥

123-go profile image
123-go in reply to HeronNS

That is frustrating. Farmed salmon, so I've read, is inflammatory:probably to do with what they're fed.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to 123-go

The worst thing really, among a number of horrors, is that they are fed other fish and are actually not preserving stocks of anything. Net withdrawal from the ocean. Because these are open pen farms their diseases put wild fish at risk. Add to that sealice and having to dye their grey flesh (they colour them like Pacific salmon, just to add insult to injury) and knowing they are not as nutritious as the wild fish, well, I frankly don't know why anyone eats them. Lots of complaints about this but the company owners seem to hold a lot of political clout. 😡

Constance13 profile image
Constance13 in reply to HeronNS

You do look on the bright side of life, don't you?

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to Constance13

I've been concerned about the environment since I first learned there was such a thing. I was in Vancouver (a day trip to Vancouver if you can believe it) and a middle-aged woman was giving out buttons, promoting Greenpeace - which was officially founded the following year. I was 20 something and I'd never even had the concept of environmentalism presented to me. Nature was just something that was there, surrounding me. It's not a question of looking on the bright or dark side, but of facing a rather horrendous reality and doing what little I can to lessen my immense personal footprint - I live in North America after all, and I take a medication which has a significant effect on the environment

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/276...

If there's a bright side it is that I'm not alone. The "people" don't want these damaging industries, but we keep electing people who only see $$$$ as a way forward.

Constance13 profile image
Constance13 in reply to HeronNS

$$$$ is the way of the whole world these days and one day there will be one hell of a big bang.

That's me being on the dark side!!!

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to Constance13

I did rather foolishly hope that the Great Pause of Spring 2020 would have been shock enough to bring the human race to its senses. Apparently not. I was reminded of my feelings by Facebook which now tells you about posts you've made over the years on today's date. "(April 26, 2020: Be kind to yourself. You have done the best you could with the information you had at the time. I like to draw and am quite good at it, though not "artist grade". When I go to classes and hear people beat themselves up because they think they're no good, I tell them, you're in the class to learn. If you already knew everything you wouldn't be here, or you would be the teacher. I think life is like that. We all look back and think "If only...." But we did what we thought was right at the time. We did what we were ready to do at the time.

Now we are all in a different space. Everyone on the planet is living a life different than we expected just a couple of months ago, and for none of us in this generation will things ever be the same. Every single one of us is to one degree or another looking back and thinking, did I do right? And if we take time now to reflect on what we can change about ourselves so that we emerge from The Great Pause more in tune with our people, with our environment, then we'll have learned a great lesson.

The past exists only in our memory. The future is yet to be. All we have is the present moment, and the gift of life on an incredibly beautiful planet.

Stay safe."

The sad corollary: as I stood in line on Sunday for a rapid covid test at a pop-up site, I mentioned to the woman in line behind me how last year at this time I really believed the pandemic would be over. Instead it's worse than ever, and it sure doesn't look like we've collectively learned many useful lessons, or if we have, are willing to apply what we've learned to making a better world.

Or maybe it's just my having had a rather fraught year, healthwise, perhaps the worst ever in my life, which is making me want to give up. But of course I don't.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to HeronNS

The article is about anabolic steroids - a totally different thing altogether. They are what bodybuilders misuse ...

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to PMRpro

Oops. However I happen to know it's true of all our medications so I'll try to find something more appropriate! Changed above.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to PMRpro

Well that was easy

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/276...

Sure there's lots more but I'm going out for a walk now.....

123-go profile image
123-go in reply to HeronNS

I'm afraid it's all about profit...and politics!

ClarkB profile image
ClarkB in reply to HeronNS

These fish are kept in horrific conditions, with barely room to move or breathe. As you say, they are covered in sealice, and suffer deformities. I have seen pictures and videos of them suffering and gasping for breath. To add insult to injury there are cases where they are kicked and stamped on. Unfortunately.looking on the ‘bright side’ is not an option, unless it is to hope that other like minded people will protest against these conditions, and hopefully make a difference!

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to ClarkB

We are what we eat. If we eat animals, those animals should have had some quality of life themselves before they become part of our substance. I acknowledge that most of us living on Planet Earth at this time have had choice taken away. We can only do what we can in our own little corner, and hope that one day the decision makers become more enlightened.

ClarkB profile image
ClarkB in reply to HeronNS

I don’t eat meat, fish, dairy products or wear leather. I agree absolutely with what you say. If people do eat animals, they really should look beyond the supermarket shelves, and to consider some of the conditions in which these creatures are reared before making choices.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to ClarkB

You're better than me - haven't been able to divest myself of dairy, although at least I strive for "organic" whatever that may mean.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to HeronNS

Apart from Greek yoghurt I only use dairy from the local dairies - all the cows are on small mountain farms, max 20 cows I think, they spend the summer on the alm and are fed only hay all year round. Costs a bit more but it salves my conscience to some extent. Refuse to buy supermarket meat - except the local Spar sells UK lamb and I KNOW that grew up a mountain ;)

ClarkB profile image
ClarkB in reply to HeronNS

We’re both on the right track, as much as we can be! 🤗

Constance13 profile image
Constance13 in reply to PMRpro

I've used the frozen wild salmon for years. Never been disappointed!

jinasc profile image
jinasc in reply to Constance13

Me and lately Sockeye has appeared............

Constance13 profile image
Constance13 in reply to jinasc

Lucky you! We are miles away from the sea so no really fresh fish. Frozen essential!

If I can't get to the farm shop we have frozen vegetables too.

jinasc profile image
jinasc in reply to Constance13

Less than 15 miles from me - a fishing port - so fresh fish -caught one day - eaten next.

I hated it when I lived in London - the fish all had dull eyes.

I eat fish at the least twice a week. Love it.

Constance13 profile image
Constance13 in reply to jinasc

OK OK! 🤢🤢

We eat fish twice a week too, and smoked salmon or mackerel for tea.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Constance13

Closer than I am!

Constance13 profile image
Constance13 in reply to PMRpro

Really?

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Constance13

Should have said as close as I am, I admit it is a close thing - Venice is our nearest sea port, it is shorter but takes a good 3 1/2 hours because there are mountain roads in the way. Bremerhaven is about the same distance by motorway for you as Venice for us and time is about the same.But if Italians want fresh fish - it gets here.

Constance13 profile image
Constance13 in reply to PMRpro

There's plenty of "fresh fish" here but........!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Constance13

The counter is separated into fresh and thawed areas and all the details of source are displayed. And I know it arrives in new deliveries, it runs out!!!!

Constance13 profile image
Constance13 in reply to PMRpro

Same here!

Floridafan profile image
Floridafan in reply to PMRpro

M&S and Waitrose both sell Wild Pacific Sockeye salmon. It’s a different texture to the farmed salmon, it’s more meaty not as soft. I prefer the taste of farmed but always buy the wild salmon.

M&S is the only place I've found wild smoked salmon, pricier than others but I reckon must be better than buying the farmed stuff

Mainly written for woman's bone health, but it applies to men as well especially when we are taking steroids for many years. I'm in my seventh year, but now on 3mg.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Pastit

Men can also develop low bone density - my husband for example. Everyone THINKS it applies to women but men are not exempt ...

Pastit profile image
Pastit in reply to PMRpro

That's why I mentioned it.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to Pastit

Two things. Because men generally start out with larger bones, and they do not suffer the dramatic changes women experience at menopause, not as much attention is paid to their bone health. But I believe later in life they too can experience significant bone thinning. So, yes, we all need to look after our bones and I really wish more attention was paid to what women are doing to maintain bone density when they are still youthful rather than waiting until it's time to suggest medications.

Pastit profile image
Pastit in reply to HeronNS

A good point HeronNS, just because we can't see it, it doesn't mean it's not happening.

I eat most of that although never heard of Natto, I assume it also applies to males as they are not mentioned!!!

Rache profile image
Rache in reply to Bcol

Most vitamin K2 tablets are derived from Natto I think

Telian profile image
Telian in reply to Rache

They are Rache, I take them.

Pastit profile image
Pastit in reply to Bcol

Yes, it applies to men as well.

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to Bcol

Yes, see my reply to Pastit.

I already eat 6 prunes every day. I started to do so when I decided not to take allendronic acid but thought I should make some effort to improve my bond density. Although I've become vegan and I'm learning to like soy products like tofu and tempeh, I don't think I could ever be brave enough to try natto which sounds about as disgusting as the fermented shark said to be a delicacy in Iceland.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Marijo1951

Not sure about natto, haven't tried it - but many Asian fermented foods are really nice.

Highlandtiger profile image
Highlandtiger in reply to PMRpro

They are indeed. Kimchi is my latest favourite food!

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Highlandtiger

I like it too - haven't ever seen it here. Wonder if the organic/vegan/alternative shop might have it ...

Highlandtiger profile image
Highlandtiger in reply to PMRpro

It might. I found it online and get it sent to me from elsewhere in Scotland through the mail. I think it's becoming more widely available all the time.

readingbooks profile image
readingbooks in reply to PMRpro

Natto stands alone in my experience perhaps along with Durian fruit, but during my year or so in Japan I just couldn't !!!

HeronNS profile image
HeronNS in reply to PMRpro

I've heard natto described as simultaneously crunchy and slimy.

Yes, it's the slimy bit I don't fancy!

Thanks for this! I have a question....when I first got diagnosed I started taking calcium and bone supplements, but started getting gallstone colic! I've now stopped the calcium and I'm fine. I take K2 and Mag and D3.Does anyone else have this? And what do you think about not taking calcium supplement? I eat lots of dairy, fish, and a fair bit of green veg.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Blossom20

I know a few people who developed grit - gall bladder and in urine - while taking calcium carbonate. I no longer take calcium carbonate and try to eat plenty of dietary calcium. I;d been off calcium supplements for about 18 months at my last dexascan and the readings had barely changed from the previous one 4 years before.

Blossom20 profile image
Blossom20 in reply to PMRpro

Oh good, thats what I hoped you'd say! Thanks

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

Thanks for an intersting article. Adcal tablets really upset my stomach/guts so I'm hoping I can get enough calcium through diet instead. I eat most of the things in the article except yoghurt, tomato (though I can tolerate tinned but not raw), pepper, ginger - all of which trigger allergic type actions. Not heard of natto before, will check it out. Ginger seems such a good anti-inflammation food but sadly not for me. I have broccoli/tenderstem/kale/cavolo nero most days and at least one cauliflower per week, they're my go-to veg. I must ask my rheumie for a bone density scan to see how things are now I'm on relatively high Pred.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to tangocharlie

OH does fine with calcium citrate- calcium carb was a disaster

tangocharlie profile image
tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro

Will try that, thanks

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply to Blossom20

I don't take Calcium, but do have lots of dairy and do take D3 and K2 and Prunes are now on my list following earlier posts.

Kendrew profile image
Kendrew in reply to Bcol

Morning Bcol.How often and how many prunes do you take?? Do you buy them tinned?.....and do they not make you need the loo more??😳

Sorry for all the questions!

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply to Kendrew

Morning. Last part first, haven't noticed any increase in toilet activities. I'm getting mine in a ready to eat pack from a well known supermarket with the weekly shop (delivered). Sealed reusable pack and very tasty, have them with my porridge in the morning after walk. Came about after discussions here, part of a long post, which I think, started about something else but can't remember what!!

Kendrew profile image
Kendrew in reply to Bcol

Do you have the recommended 6 a day??

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply to Kendrew

Probably, didn't really count them but I would guess at at least six. (Must have been given how long the pack lasted)

Kendrew profile image
Kendrew in reply to Bcol

Guess what I'll be adding to the shopping list.! 😀 Had no idea they were so good for bones.

Bcol profile image
Bcol in reply to Kendrew

No I hadn't either, do remember eating them when little though. Def. not in syrup mine. I also eat a lot of Blueberries, which are delicious.

Rugger profile image
Rugger in reply to Kendrew

Tinned prunes are often in syrup. I buy my dried prunes from Home Bargains, as they don't have added water, which I can add myself! I soak them with boiling water, in a glass dish for a few hours, then microwave them for a few minutes to 'stew' them. I have 5 a day on my porridge or muesli.

Second point - also no noticeable change in bowels!

Kendrew profile image
Kendrew in reply to Rugger

Thankyou for the tip. Definitely going to start adding prunes to my diet.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Kendrew

I suspect it depends to some extent on how they are made - and the amount of natural sorbitol in them! However - any sudden increase in intake of fibre can do the same so build up to it gradually - adding a prune a week maybe????

Really hopeful - thanks!

Terrific and delish! Thank you PMRpro! I eat loads of blues and tomatoes and veg, so that is good! I love prunes but they affect my tum! However I sometimes add them to my chicken casserole—- really delish!

Thanks for the post. Very informative as usual. Thanks for posting all this useful stuff

Some super foods listed here . I have frozen blueberries warmed up in a small saucepan , add chia seeds and flaxseeds , then pour on the plain yogurt. Delicious , I had no idea it was good for our bones , an added bonus

Love Broccoli, but now can only eat it twice a week - Warfarin

You would love what I am going to have tomorrow, one big Lincolnshire Onion cooked whole in milk and water, then whilst hot smothered in cheese. Can't wait.

Grammy80 profile image
Grammy80 in reply to jinasc

Are you putting a candle in it? Yum~!💖

Kendrew profile image
Kendrew in reply to jinasc

OH WOW! Haha!.....I've NEVER heard of that combination cooked in that way before, but I love cheese and onion together and that made my mouth water!! Probably not everyone's cup of tea though!😄

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to jinasc

It is fine to eat providing you eat it regularly - every day is OK as long as you stick to similar amounts every day and the INR is adjusted to that regular diet. It is not eating and then binging that is the problem.

jinasc profile image
jinasc in reply to PMRpro

They never told me that - just gave me a book and then said Broc and Advocados said only twice a week. grrrr

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to jinasc

Typical UK - here they just tell you to eat something like that regularly. And here they check INR once a month so you aren't likely to get far out of kilter.

jinasc profile image
jinasc in reply to PMRpro

At present I am checked once in three months, as long as there is no change in meds or how feel once a week, then two weeks, then three weeks and 4 weeks until I get back to 3 monthly.

Once a month sounds good me.........

Greensleeves profile image
Greensleeves in reply to jinasc

Delicious, I love broccoli so much , I used to eat broccoli sandwiches when I was a teenager, with a good thick spread of butter .

I’d eat it now if I could 😍.

The onion smothered with cheese sounds divine. xx

Constance13 profile image
Constance13 in reply to jinasc

Yuck!!

Thanks~! There is not one thing on that list that I do not love...and I'm trying to lose some weight in a healthy way. Now...if I could just find someone to create a full week's menu I'd be all set. I just seem to get tangled up in my underwear trying to 'get it together.' 💖

Kendrew profile image
Kendrew in reply to Grammy80

😂😂😂

Really interesting and informative. I actually hadn't realised that tomatoes were good for bone health...I knew lycopene was known for its anti-cancer properties but not for helping to build stronger bones. I eat almost all of the other things suggested but never had natto! Never seen it around shops or supermarkets here in UK but probably will be found somewhere. Not sure it's my thing though and take a K2 supplement so won't worry too much about that one. I like prunes but 6 a day??? Would I ever be off the loo!!😳😳 The article reassured me that I was indeed eating many of the right foods to promote good bone health and as my next DEXA scan is in a few weeks....we'll see if it's made a difference!

I read that red (sockeye) salmon can’t be farmed. Apparently they need different breeding conditions than Atlantic salmon and they haven’t figured it how to do it. No doubt they will in time unfortunately. I noticed canned Aldi red salmon is wild caught. Have never seen frozen red salmon in Aus. I’m sure if it is here the price would be exorbitant. The frozen here is bred in Tasmania.

Good healthy food listed, which I've eaten for many years. I think the menopause messes up us ladies bones. I for one never took HRT. Now of course it's the Prednisone ruining our bones, plus many other things too.

Very interesting and I love all of those foods 👍 - except Natto which I’ve never tried. Have you?

Does anyone know if there is any benefit from plums or is it something to do with the drying process which turns them into prunes which makes them good for bones...? I ask because I have a prolific plum tree and generally freeze lots of stewed plums which I eat throughout the year. Not sure I could cope with prunes and plums! Anyway last week I found some frozen plums in the freezer (not stewed but frozen individually on a tray then bagged) from, well, shall we just say "some years ago" but I gave them a go anyway and cooked them in the oven. The result tasted just like stewed prunes as it happens and I pureed them to have with yogurt. No idea whether they'll have benefited my bones or not but they were very nice!

I think that with regard to boron they'd be the same. Boron is an element, not the product of biological processes in the fruit. However I don't know if there are other benefits to prunes. Will look it up and see if I can find out. Because "they" do keep pushing prunes although boron is found in a lot of foods.

PMRpro profile image
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Highlandtiger

"As it turns out, prunes are just dried plums. However, not all plums are prunes. The prune fruit comes from a different type of plant other than plums. So yes, dried plums are called prunes; but not all plums are prunes."

It may be that prune plums differ in their nutrients from plum plums ... Something to do with phenolic stuff I think.

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