Vegetarian and PMR

[remission]

Has anyone gone vegetarian and if so did they find that helped with the PMR. Just read one doctor suggesting it is the best thing for auto immune diseases thanks

[PMRpro Ambassador]

We have quite a few vegetarians on the forum - it didn't stop them developing PMR in the first place!!! Much the same as the clain going gluten-free helps, we have coeliacs with PMR. Here in Germanic-Europe they are very keen on dietary approaches and my GP is always on about not eating meat. Sorry - I really don't eat a lot of meat anyway but they were also terribly keen I should cut cheese and dairy for cholesterol management. I can't eat wheat - vegan is neither appealing nor convenient I would have a very restricted diet.

There was a small study some years ago that found a strict vegan diet improved joint pain in half of patients with rheumatoid arthritis but any reintroduction of animal protein removed the benefit, however small the amount. My granddaughter is vegan - it has improved her severe brittle asthma dramatically. My daughter is vegan too - and it has improved her skin problems amongst other things. However - vegan is not the same at all.

Like everything else in this illness - you have to try something to know if it helps you. We are all different.

[whitefishbay in reply to PMRpro]

How could you live in Italy and have a restricted diet. It would kill me. Food gets me through the day (and yes I could lose a stone or so).

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to whitefishbay]

Eating low carb here isn't that difficult - good access to fish and a good butcher. Fruit and veg here is also superb. Italian vegetarian is great really - but I'm not that keen on pasta or rice so they are a great treat, as is icecream or pizza.

And anyway - only here for the wine

[whitefishbay in reply to PMRpro]

The quality of Italian food is so good that eating healthily is satisfying. I miss simple pastas and good tomatoes (and the rest).

[Constance13]

The quick answer for me is "not at all"! I went vegetarian 'gradually' because I grew to have an aversion to meat - no real reason, just didn't like the feel of it in my mouth.

I've had PMR for 8 years now.

[Arflane97G]

Have been a veggie since I was very young and still developed PMR!

[SnazzyD]

From a slightly different angle. I’ve got GCA and had to up my protein for the high dose Pred but have to be diary and soya free and can’t tolerate too many pulses. So I went opposite to vegetarian and put away large amounts of meat for 2 years. I don’t feel it set me back and I’ve got to 0.5mg uneventfully. I did try to be vegetarian in my 20’s for 2 years but had to stop because it didn’t suit me. I think we’re all different. Now sugar, that’s a different story...

[tangocharlie in reply to SnazzyD]

I read up on something called the carnivore diet which as the name suggests, people only eat meat, and joined a few Facebook groups to find out more and there were plenty of anecdotal stories of how people had 'cured' various L-T illnesses for which nothing else had worked previously. Most people just only ate a 10-20 oz steak every day, nothing else. but for every success story (and there were many, and books written on the topic) there were also people who tried it and ended up feeling worse. I conclude all we can do is try different things and see. I couldn't be vegan as I need to eat low carb so don't eat bread, rice, potatoes, pasta, pulses and also react to soya. So reluctantly although I've cut down on meat I couldn't exist on cabbage, kale, cauliflower and broccoli alone

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to tangocharlie]

Be a bit windy ...

[tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro]

I'm not touching sprouts for sure

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to tangocharlie]

It's kale I don't particularly like. Love the rest - especially roasted Gives a totally different flavour to them all!

[tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro]

I like kale if it's massaged in coconut oil then baked in the oven - has the texture of crispy seaweed. Not easy on the guts but a superfood I feel I should eat. It was only reading Michael Mosely's books that I learned that to digest brassicas our bodies have to produce gas. I'd always assumed it was something in the food itself. Explains why vegetarians who eat a lot of beans and pulses don't have problems, maybe their bodies get better at processing it and need less gas!

[SnazzyD in reply to tangocharlie]

Sadly, after eating cruciate veg 1-2 times a day for decades my body decided no more when I was in single figures for Pred. Now it makes me feel sick and bloated. No more broccoli or sauerkraut 😩

[Sefu]

That was a great Question and thanks for the responses from all.

[Hidden]

Been a vegetarian for 35 years, so knocks that one in the head!

[HeronNS]

Vegetarian for close to thirty years, but not vegan. Suspect the benefit of vegetarianism is, if done right, you do tend to eat a lot more healthy vegetables which increases intake of important micronutrients, provides healthy fibre, and contributes to weight control.

[piglette]

I went gluten free so I would not get a moon face and it actually worked. Had to go Vegan last week as my refrigerator broke down and I had to throw all the food away. Just had a new one installed. All I can say is thank goodness I am not Vegan it does not agree with me.

[HeronNS in reply to piglette]

I would probably starve to death if I couldn't eat cheese or have milk in my tea! I'd eat more fish but the seafood supply is either very suspect (bad fishing practices or open pen farmed fish or endangered species) or, if sustainable, expensive, so it's a rare treat. Seems ironic considering I live in a place which exports masses of seafood around the world.

[piglette in reply to HeronNS]

I nearly did starve to death as not able to shop at the moment and no delivery for a few days!

[HeronNS in reply to piglette]

Were you nearly driven to going out and foraging for edible plants?

[piglette in reply to HeronNS]

I was ready to eat my shoes!

[anutycrixp in reply to piglette]

hope they were vegan shoes!

[Constance13 in reply to piglette]

Ooooer! That's a first on here I think. VERY difficult if you have no-one to shop for you. We'd get up a massive parcel for you but as some of us are on different continents you might be dead before it arrived!!!😂😂😂

[piglette in reply to Constance13]

Waitrose have leapt into action. The trouble is to get a slot at the moment with the supermarkets you have to book weeks in advance and be up at midnight to get a slot. A friend did get me some milk so I could become non Vegan!

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to piglette]

Life without milk doesn't bear thinking about!

[Constance13 in reply to PMRpro]

I agree - and cheese. Milk is my favourite drink.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Constance13]

Oh no - a cup of tea isn't right without semi-skimmed cow ...

[Constance13 in reply to PMRpro]

I haven't put milk in tea for years. Very un-English!

Actually I wonder how much of me still is English. Life would be very different if we had to return. We still look back through our rose coloured specs.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Constance13]

No rose-tinted specs in this house! But we've only been away for 12 years ...

[Constance13 in reply to PMRpro]

It all changed after you left😂🤪🤪

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to Constance13]

It was already getting dire then ...

[diana1998 in reply to Constance13]

I lived in Madrid in the seventies and when it was 40c in August, the milk had turned on way back from supermercado. So started to drink weak black tea. Delicious. Can't drink it now with milk. Just had to stop eating delicious organic yoghurt for breakfast and late pm before pred. Turned out I'd built up an intolerance and it was that which was making me 🤢 nauseous. The days I ate eggs for breakfast I was OK. Can only drink black coffee now and I used to love cappacinos. It's like stopping sugar and then hating it in drinks after a few weeks!

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to diana1998]

Weak black or with lemon is another drink! Luckily our local dairy does a UHT milk that almost tastes the same as their straight off the mountain grass fed stuff. Have used it a lot when travelling!

[Marcy47 in reply to piglette]

Morrisons are brilliant. Since I got my shielding letter from the NHS, they have offered me 3 months free deliveries (as many as I want), the slots are available within a week, and they have reduced the amount you have to buy from £40 to £25, needless to say I usually go mad and spend a lot more, and get a delivery every 2 weeks.

[tangocharlie in reply to Marcy47]

I've been using Morrisons for a while, no problems, a slot within days. I didn't know to register as shielding as I always got a slot anyway, and it's easy to go over £40 when my favourite prosecco (Freixinet) is on offer at £9 instead of the usual £13. Then I tried a few days ago and no slots available until Mid-July. I conclude everybody is stockpiling again assuming there is going to be a 'second wave' and we'll be on lockdown again. I'm getting 6 bottles in, just in case, and plenty of cauliflower and celeriac that will keep. I should survive the winter.

[SnazzyD in reply to piglette]

I was gluten free anyway, but it didn’t stop my panda face 🙁, but then 60mg and down I was up against it.

[piglette in reply to SnazzyD]

Gluten free and cut out simple carbs totally.

[SnazzyD in reply to piglette]

Yep, I did that from the start religiously. The usual thing, we’re all different.

[piglette in reply to SnazzyD]

In that case it was luck in my case!

[Mazxstitch]

I was advised to go gluten and lactose free 7 months ago. Inflammation and therefore, pain decreased significantly. Still on Prednisolone, but pain is not so debilitating.

Have also lost weight.

[tangocharlie in reply to Mazxstitch]

I gave up dairy for a week recently and switched to lactose free or Koko (coconut milk), no other dairy products. Lost 4 or 5 lbs in a week, and that's the only dietary change I made. OMG I've just realised, my CRP dropped drastically too. Maybe there is something in dairy being inflammatory *gnashing and wailing at the prospect of having to give up milk in tea and butter and cheese on veg*

[mtrafter]

12 years ago when I was diagnosed with my first autoimmune disease I was advised to change to a Vegan diet but add fish, I followed it strictly for 3 yrs it was very difficult. I then decided to go Vegetarian with fish, this was much more manageable and gave me some quality of life. Since PMR diagnosis nearly 3 years ago and OA I seem to be also gluten sensitive so juggling my dietry needs is a constant battle. I can't say if it has helped PMR or not but I rarely have digestive issues and have not had a true flare but have got down slowly to 5.5 Pred.

[Zebedee44]

I have tried to avoid grain fed meats after reading a book about the inflammatory diet which suggests that grain fed meat contains more Omega 6 which is an inflammatory. So I no longer buy or eat any supermarket meats but will happily eat locally sourced meat or roadkill. I can’t say it has made any difference at all to my PMR but it makes me feel virtuous and is my small contribution to “saving the planet“.

[tangocharlie in reply to Zebedee44]

I thought in the UK all our meat is grass-fed? It's just in the US mass farms they use grains?

[Zebedee44 in reply to tangocharlie]

I think it’s true that animals are grain fed to fatten them for the table.

[tangocharlie in reply to Zebedee44]

I fear you are right Zeb, from a quick Google. Even in the UK unless specifically stated our meat is mainly fed grass in summer and silage in winter and finished off with grains. I'm going to investigate more. It explains why organic, free-range grass-fed meat is so expensive. Hmmm, this could be a game-changer for me

[S4ndy]

I went vegetarian for two years at the beginning of my PMR journey. I just didn't want to eat meat. I then ate fish for a year, still no meat and then back on a diet that included meat and fish. I actually felt no different in myself but did feel tired but this was probably due to the PMR. I put on a serious amount of weight too during the veggie years. Ate far too much pasta,rice and potatoes!

I started to get recurring episodes of IBS so did the FODMAP diet eliminating and challenge on the advice of my Gastroenterologist. It became obvious very quickly which foods were triggering me.

Now on a balanced low (but not ultra low) carb diet and have eliminated the trigger foods. So IBS back under control and weight staring to go down slowly.

So I guess I didn't find any benefit for me from going veggie but have been much better with my tummy knowing my trigger foods.

[tangocharlie in reply to S4ndy]

Interesting, I've learned my trigger foods through doing my own elimination diet and concluded it all things high histamine or with sulphites in. Wine, tomatoes, yeast, malt, most cheeses, anything pickled or fermented, citrus. I've been so much better generally since eliminating those things. Shame about the wine, at least I'm OK with the odd glass of champange or prosecco! What were your triggers?

[S4ndy in reply to tangocharlie]

Lactose, all beans and pulses, mango,watermelon,apples,pears,sweetcorn,peas,cauliflower,Brussels and any other fruits containing oligosaccharides. Also wholemeal anything!

For years I had an idea about the lactose and wholemeal stuff but finding out about the fruit and veg was a real game changer. You miss wine, I miss Mango and watermelon 😀

[tangocharlie in reply to S4ndy]

Me too, the only fruit I can eat at all is a small amount of blueberries. I'm particularly craving gorgeous British strawberries at this time of year. I tried a pear yesterday - big face and neck flare followed by gurgling tum and guts. Interestingly I've also been researching diets for Interstitial Cystitis as sometimes foods trigger an overactive bladder and I used to think i was infections but it isn't. The diet is practically the same as what I'm eating now, and is also similar to Paleo or ancestral diet. I've switched to lactose free milk and can't honestly taste the difference between that and ordinary milk so might as well stick to it as it's lower carb.

[DogAgilityObsessed]

I’m another long term vegetarian (35 years) thought about going vegan at one point but I like dairy and cheese so much. Plus we keep chickens usually which would be pointless.

Now I’m trying to reduce my carbs. I haven’t eaten a single cake or biscuit since my diagnosis just over two weeks ago. I make ice cream and that is now all low carb experiments. I’m hoping I won’t have to go keto as my husband would really hate that as would I.

[DogAgilityObsessed]

Unfortunately tangocharlie the meat is a problem. After 35 years it would be very hard. If I ate meat still I would agree I’m sure (I did eat some meat/fish when in restaurants for about a year a while ago) but it’s just not happening in our house.

[PMRpro Ambassador]

Almost impossible to remain in the keto state when you are on pred - because of the random spikes of glucose the liver releases in response to the pred. It doesn't matter WHERE the glucose in the bloodstream comes from, it triggers the release of insulin - and you are no longer in keto metabolism. It can take a couple of days to get back into ketosis even after deliberately eating carbs - with the glucose spikes you don't know if or when they happened.

[tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro]

Yes I think you told me that before which I why although I eat keto foods I'm actually probably not in ketosis much of the time. Especially now I'm on 20 Pred for a flare. It's still aiming for keto and ending up low-carb though.

[PMRpro Ambassador in reply to tangocharlie]

Doing the best you can ...

[tangocharlie in reply to PMRpro]

When I tried really strict just before Easter the ketostix were showing ketosis after about 3 days, but like you say I pobably dipped in and out which is why weight loss was much slower than other ketoers even though I was being strict.