Kefir and prednisilone : Is it OK to take Kefir... - PMRGCAuk

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Kefir and prednisilone

Theziggy
Theziggy

Is it OK to take Kefir with prednisolone. My and OH started making it with thoughts of the marvelous improvements for our guts, and then she read that it was not advised for people with decreased immune systems as it contained bacteria and cold cause illness and to check with your GP (the same GP who didn't know that I had PMR)

Anyone on here take it?

Thanks in advance

42 Replies
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PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador

Lots of us use yoghurt and kefir - particularly ones with extra good bacteria. They aren't the ones that cause illness - what a bizarre reasoning!

SnazzyD
SnazzyD in reply to PMRpro

Is it unpasteurised?

PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador in reply to SnazzyD

Commercial ones will be made with milk that has been pasteurised to deal with dodgy bacteria and then the cultures are added afterwards.

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to PMRpro

That's what I was thinking - we have millions of bacteria in our guts which our immune system isn't interested in - thanks

PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Theziggy

Actually there is increasing evidence that having those bacteria well-balanced is a key factor in immune system performance. Kefir has the goodies...

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to PMRpro

They are calling the small intestine the second brain now - scientificamerican.com/arti...

PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Theziggy

NOW? That's 8 years ago - a lifetime in science... ;-)

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to PMRpro

I guess I'm a bit of a dinosaur - so has the small intestine evolved into something else in the 8 years?

PMRpro
PMRproAmbassador in reply to Theziggy

The point was it isn't just "now" - they've been aware for a long time...

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to PMRpro

I see what you mean PMRpro

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to PMRpro

That's what I was thinking - we have millions of bacteria in our guts which our immune system isn't interested in - thanks

I’ve been making my own for a couple of yrs and am not stopping it just cos I’ve now got PMR! My stomach has never been better since I’ve been using it!

I have recently started making water kefir (I'm vegan), and I did so because I'm taking pred. It seemed the much better option for protecting my stomach than the drugs my GP wanted me to take! And so far, so good...

I get kefir in Waitrose and use with my fruit and nuts a.m. I don't use all the time - I mostly go for full fat yoghurt, as a two monthly period of daily kefir seemed to make my tum a little upset. But always a.m with pred and no probs. X

Make my own eat it daily with granola and fruit. Great for the gut and immune system, and a readily absorbed form of calcium so good for the bones too.

We've been drinking kefir (commercially produced) for several years with no ill effects. The caveat for fermented foods: if you are not used to them, start very slowly, a very small quantity. Maybe only a couple of ounces the first couple of times you drink kefir, or a single tablespoon if you are sampling fermented veg. Gradually build up. What's happening is that new bacteria are populating your gut and it takes a while for the body to adapt.

I have heard that home made kombucha (fermented tea), alone amongst the fermented foods and drinks which have a near perfect safety record, can cause illness if it becomes contaminated. Provided your family is using a culture which has been commercially produced meeting all the local health standards, I imagine your kefir would be fine. Just don't drink too much at once. And in fact even when you are used to it a four ounce serving is likely enough.

Thank you all very much - I am making it at home as

a) I can't buy it pre-made on local shops and

b) I have read that shop bought kefir has been pasteurised and contains much fewer 'good' bacteria

many thanks

HeronNS
HeronNS in reply to Theziggy

I suppose it depends on the brand. But normally you'd expect the milk to be pasteurized first and the bacteria added afterwards, Kefir claims to have far more varieties of bacteria than yoghurt which I suppose would make it superior. Although yoghurt has been proven to help the body absorb calcium more effectively. There was something in the news a few months ago about that research.

I have home made Kambucha every morning before breakfast and have done so since before PMR (18mths) for all its good gut bacteria and rarely have any digestive upsets. Currently tapering from 25mg now at just 5.5mg dose.

I make my own. No ill effects with pred at all.

Has anyone tried BIMUNO? It did wonders for my IBS. It is, I quote from the packet -A Targeted Digestive Nutrition.....it feeds friendly bacteria that live in your digestive system.... It is formulated to reach your lower intestine in tact where it feed the friendly bacteria and help them flourish in just 7 days.

It is not bacteria, but bacteria food mad from lentils as far as I remember and can be mixed into any hot drink. I am very fussy about my tea but you wouldn't know it was here.

This is the website if anyone wants to loo into it.

bimuno.com/what-is-bimuno

Kate

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to Omanain

"This is the website if anyone wants to loo into it." was that an intentional spelling mistake - very apt in any way!

Omanain
Omanain in reply to Theziggy

No I didn't notice until I had posted it, but as you say, not inappropriate!!

We make our own water kefir and komboucha and I drink them both daily as part of an anti-inflammatory autoimmune regime. You need to introduce it gradually if you’re not used to it but it’s such a nutritious and highly beneficial probiotic for the gut microbiome and so delicious. Given a choice I’d choose water kefir over dairy.

I make my own and second ferment with added fruit. Apparently that boosts Vit B12 and various other minerals. It’s the current wonder food- no ill effects for me, if anything feeling better and allowed me to start reducing pred again. Now at 3 mg daily, 2 years after initial diagnosis.

xdbx
xdbx in reply to Weegie51

Same here re 2nd ferment - faves are cherries or raspberries - and also re feeling better and pred reduction.

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to Weegie51

Just on second batch of home made kefir - how do you do a second ferment? 8-)

Weegie51
Weegie51 in reply to Theziggy

Once you have strained out the grains, add a couple of pieces of fruit, e.g. strawberries, raspberries, cherries or a piece of lemon or orange peel. Leave it at room temperature for an hour or two then place in fridge. You are adding additional food to be fermented. It will carbonate a bit so pop open your container now and again. I add a wee bit of Stevia to sweeten. Delicious!

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to Weegie51

Sounds yummy

Couple of links to a TV trial of kefir here

biotifuldairy.com/trust-im-...

bbc.co.uk/programmes/articl...

n.b. I am not being paid by kefir grain farmers other fermented products are available 8-)

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to Theziggy

Oops my link to the BBC just goes to the recipe page - here is the proper link bbc.co.uk/programmes/articl... which says kefir does survive the journey through the stomach

But I would seriously consider a poo transplant - seems to work well.

Here we go again, one minute wonderful, next minute worthless bbc.co.uk/news/health-45434753 or even harmful as in this quote: 'The research group also looked at the impact of probiotics after a course of antibiotics, which wipe out both good and bad bacteria. Their trial on 46 people ... showed it led to delays in the normal healthy bacteria re-establishing themselves.' There's a link to the complete trial in 'Cell' and that's a very long read indeed.

What to believe?

piglette
piglette in reply to Slowdown

There was an article on this in the BMJ today, it is not quite what the BBC are saying in that they found that just over fifty per cent of people did not absorb the extra bacteria as the bacteria currently in the gut killed it off! I think the others did absorb the probiotic. I was always told that prebiotics are better in that probiotics have trouble getting through the stomach. It has been documented that anti biotics are bad for our gut bacteria.

Slowdown
Slowdown in reply to piglette

Yes, I knew about the effects of antibiotics on our microbiome - a course of Amoxicillin three months ago started off my digestion issues, IBS-C, which hasn't resolved yet. I make/buy kefir and have it every day as I've done for a couple of years, thinking it was promoting the regeneration of good gut bacteria especially after antibiotics - according to this study it actually hinders the process. As you say, prebiotics to feed the already existing good bacteria sounds more reasonable ... but what do I know?! The more I tinker around and the more I read the more confusing it becomes - think I'll just revert back to Yorkshire pudding, roast beef, crumble and custard!

piglette
piglette in reply to Slowdown

A good balanced diet is what we want, roast beef and Yorkshire pudding, followed by crumble and custard and no antibiotics. Oh and a glass of wine!

Slowdown
Slowdown in reply to piglette

How could I forget the glass of wine :-)

I hope your troublesome leg wound is healing, piglette .. all the best.

piglette
piglette in reply to Slowdown

I have managed to get a third blister. This is much smaller than the others, perhaps because I decided to burst it immediately which they say you should not. So back to the nurse, just when the second was nearly OK. I have started swimming again and just hope no one notices the look of my legs. I have plasters now and not dressings but they seem to absorb the water and the other day I was talking to someone at the end of the pool as one does and suddenly the plaster popped up. I grabbed it as my friend said ‘what’s that’ I sort of mumbled.

Slowdown
Slowdown in reply to piglette

Oops, our embarrassing bodies .. you'd think we'd be past caring what people think, but no...

I went blackberrying yesterday - you can imagine my arms and legs today?! BUT crumble tonight, with Cornish cream.

piglette
piglette in reply to Slowdown

Sounds good. My garden is full of blackberries as I have not been able to do much to it during the last year. I must go out and look if I can make it into a positive! Also if I scratch my legs fluid pours out as the steroids have caused fluid retention, so perhaps better to keep away from brambles!

Theziggy
Theziggy in reply to Slowdown

What to believe - exactly !!!

- the people who have responded here seem to have had good results though!

Slowdown
Slowdown in reply to Theziggy

I'm a lone voice, then! I love kefir and was previously thriving on my low-carb eating, so as far as I can pin my present digestive issues on anything it has to be Amoxicillin, can't blame pred for everything ... Lots of research ongoing and 'individual targeting' seems to be the mantra. Thanks for the BBC link.

I have diabetes and was low carbing for years - HaB1c tests were all in the normal range - and then PMR found me

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