Can anyone explain to me how beautician clinics so called are offering B12 injections? Where and how are they able to get supplies when we can’t.Puzzled and angry.
beautician B12supplies: Can anyone... - Pernicious Anaemi...
beautician B12supplies
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Mrsannabbott
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We can get b12 ampoules from German Online Pharmacies or Amazon.de , but not the Panpharma brand . It has been out of stock for quite some time .
This brand is popular because it is the best value , and comes as a 1 ml ampoule .
There are 2 other B12 depot ( Hydroxocobalamin) brands and quite a few other B12 ( Cynocobalamin) brands available.
Thank you Wedgewood but that is not my query.I wonder how beauty clinics are able to source their supplies and of course charge ridiculous prices for an injection.Best wishes to you
Agreed! It's an absolute joke for those of us who are medically B12 deficient/Pernicious Anemia (as I am), and yet are refused B12 injections by the NHS, and cannot afford to buy it privately because of how chronic illness has detrimentally impacted their lives financially.
As wedgewood said, they source it the same way as we do from online German pharmacies.
Our problem is with the treatment provided (or more usually NOT provided) by the NHS, not with private businesses who offer it as part of their service.
Yes! it's enough to make you quite angry isn't it? The other thing is that they are allowed to administer 59 injections to a single individual, in a 90-day period, when we're only allowed one injection in a 30-day period. How does that make sense. Also, the spas are hogging the B12 making it harder for us to get.
Yes EllaNore,I seem to have opened a Pandora’s box/ can of worms when I expressed my frustration.Like so many things in this life it isn’t fair.The business world has a lot to answer for as it all comes down to profit without conscience.
Thank you everyone for your comments.I have learnt a lot.A peaceful Easter wish for all of you.
Indeed a can of worms. But I feel it might be a way in for us to make a change for us. We have proof that your can inject daily because health spas do it every day. If we all repeat to our doctors that b12 spas are allowed to administer 59 injections in 90 days, maybe we can make a change. They can't argue with that as it is public knowledge. You can ask any b12 spa and they will tell you. Believe me, big money is being made from Hollywood rich and famous people with these B12 injections. They aren't about to do away with spas, so they would have to bend and give us our B12 more regularly. Because money talks and there's no way they're not going to profit off of B12 spas. So instead of telling them they can't do that, they have to allow us to do the same. Our fight should be we want the same rights as a B12 Spa. Simple as that.
Hi,
Tracey Whitty, a UK campaigner on B12 deficiency issues has blogged about this.
Should be something in blog posts below.
Well they can get their supplies from the same source as we do. As long as they don’t order for more than £135 they wont have to pay customs. so am ampoule will cost them no more than £2.00 Then that’s still a huge profit considering what they charge.
Your question you did say that they could get supplies and that we couldn’t . That’s why I sent you the information on where to access supplies of B12 ampoules.
I’ve seen adverts for B12 Methylcobalamin injections in your home for £70’! I noticed that the ampoules were from South Korea .
Best wishes .
Thank you again Wedgewood,My question arose as a local clinic to me is displaying glossy adverts for B12 injections and I just saw red.! Nothing I can do about it.As the youngsters say I was just venting.Thank you for responding.
Yes , it is maddening , but legal as long as it’s not offering the B12 injections for medical reasons. 😱🤯😤Crazy .
So, with no blood test to indicate your level, one can just have injection, providing one is prepared to pay way over the top for them?
In that case, one could have them every day, I assume, without the 'nurse' telling you that levels are too high LOL Interesting ... LOL
Yes . An expesive week though at around £210
Yes why ate nurses do ignorant about B12 and testing while on injections ?
Today one was sorting s blood form requested by a doctor.
Wanted to add B12.
Shed just injected me with 1mg.!!!
Thanks, Nackapan. I had to laugh while reading your post. Yes, so stupid to test B12 while on injections. Don't they take notice of NICE guidelines. At least, they've got it right on that one, eh?
As for your nurse, who'd just injected B12, agreeing to add to blood test request. It would seem no one thinks about what they do, or why!
i'm a retired nurse/Ward sister and I was always in trouble - because I'd use initiative, logic and common sense. I would forget it wasn't allowed!!! LOL
JMN
Hope you're doing OK? 
I was once, early in my treatment, told by a locum GP to get a blood test at the local hospital - straight after my B12 injection appointment. Serum B12 was one of the tests.
Why the GP appointment ? Because I'd struggled with symptoms despite NHS B12 injections.
Both the locum GP and the hospital medical professional assured me that having the injection and the test an hour later would NOT skew the results. Of course, the result was >2000 ng/L and remains on my record.
Wonder if I'm the only one, of the three of us, who now knows enough to feel stupid ?
Won't let me edit above post £490 😒
I had some shots from a beautician. She had done a course to learn how to IM inject and, I believe, was supplied with ampoules through her training organisation. They were supplied on prescription by a doctor who probably owned the training and supply outfit.
I think beautician use cyanocolbamin which passed out in the urine very quickly so doesn't have a therapeutic value - unless it's injected very frequently. This is what I've read, I'm not qualified in the subject
It's methylcobalamin, which is not recognized by NICE as a treatment, at least not by injection. It's usually marketed for weight loss, name your own price....
Actually methylcobalamin is much more natural in the body than hydroxo- or especially cyano-.
Any idea where methylcobalamin ampules are bought from ? I have t found a supply other than self musing which I am not yet confident enough to attempt.
🤗🤗🤗
Sorry, no. I discovered how it was being used a few years ago when my treatment got stopped by GPs with 'lockdown' excuse. Brighton Skin Clinic was the first at£120 a shot. Then others followed. I discovered hydroxocobalamin supply from Germany and haven't looked back.
If you are only allowed one shot of B12 every three months than you should definitely us hydroxycobalamin. We use cyanocobalamin here in the US where the protocol is one shot every month for the rest of your life. Cyanocobalamin works great and I highly recommend using it.
In Canada, the injectable B12 sold over the counter is cyanocobalamin. Yes- it passes faster than the Hydroxocobalamin according to studies I have read. But it has a therapeutic value. I need injections about once per 2 weeks. I possibly would need less if I had the other kind. But this keeps me 100% healthy. Also, it is very easy for me to obtain. I walk into any pharmacy and can get it without a prescription. It is very low cost: $1.30 CAD per injection (which is 0.76 pounds) if you include the cost of the needles. My husband gives me the injections. In a medical center where a doctor is giving them, I can see different cost computations going on. The major costs is having the doctor give the injection and that far surpasses the cost of either type of B12. So it makes sense to use the longer lasting one.
I am on cyanocobalamin and inject every three weeks. The standard frequencly is 4-weekly, I think.
The provision of b12 shots by beauticians seems relatively benign if expensive. However, the decision of surgeries to not treat b12 deficiency properly is deserving of our anger and let's not pretend that the decision is a result of a shortage of b12 ampoules that the NHS can't get but everyone else, like many on this site, can.
It’s not even the cost of ampoules is it? It’s the insistence that treatment must be monitored to such an extent and the involvement of so many staff.
Very true. There's a wise man that once said there are no solutions only trade offs. So the trade off here is that GP surgeries maintain control of b12 injections but in doing so restrict the availability. Whilst there are some who won't or can't SI, the majority could be shown how to do it and the patient could self manage their condition. The downside is that medics would loose some control and arguably some safety of the process but the upside is better and more efficient management of b12 deficiency plus the opportunity benefit that surgery time would be freed up for other conditions and appointments.
My observation is that medical professionals are somewhat obsessed with controlling medicine and patients and seem reluctant to empower patients and facilitate a pragmatic what works best ethos. I know it's all about patient safety - but is it really?
In Germany ,, injectable B12,is not a prescription item but must be sold in a pharmacy . Also subcutaneous and Intramuscular administration is advocated It is written on every packet of German produced injectable B12
Now Germany is a medically savvy country as we know . So why is the U.K. so. controlling ?
Hi Mrsannabbott and wedgewood
This is a really interesting topic, and I'm glad someone has raised it. I am a self-employed beautician so can answer this with facts!
I have been self-injecting B12 and also injecting my husband for the last 3 months. I taught myself to do this with the help of the lovely people on this forum. Recently I saw an advert aimed at salons to train to offer B12 injections to the public so I made enquiries thinking this might be something I could add to my list. To be honest, my job is really too physical for me and hurts me to do, so I thought I could replace some of my treatments with giving injections that would require less physical strain.
I can tell you this about the cost - I would have to buy the hydroxocobalamin ampules from the training company as it is on prescription - that is how beauticians can get supplies. If I were to buy from any other source I would be breaking the law and also invalidating my insurance. The ampules are really expensive, like 10 x the price of what we buy it for from Germany for our own personal use, plus the course itself is many hundreds of pounds and the extra yearly insurance policy needed is also a lot more than my regular professional indemnity as that would not cover me for giving injections.
I would need to charge £35 minimum per shot to make it worth my while compared to the other treatments I do that have a lower cost of materials per treatment. This is why it seems so expensive. I have to make a living, and with B12 injections it only works if I can make a profit just like with all the other treatments I offer. As my health is not the best I work part-time, about 15 hours per week, and that's a struggle. If I was well enough to work full-time I still would not make the national average wage. This is just to give context to the fact I don't earn mega bucks from my job even though I'm self-employed and earn more than an employed therapist would earn.
I agree, B12 injections should be something everyone who needs them has access to, for free, on the NHS, at intervals that are correct for the individual. But as we know that's not what happens. My husband's blood test was not low enough to initiate injections at the GP so we took matters into out own hands and got the first injection at a beautician and then learnt to inject ourselves. Some of his symptoms are now improving so it is working.
My reply is not to disagree with you per se, I just wanted to make sure that the facts are made clear - that the cost per shot is actually a lot more than anyone would realise for a beautician to purchase. Whether it's morally right or wrong for anyone to sell something that should be available for free is a debate we could have about a lot of things!
Thank you for posting this comment. It clears up the reason that your industry has to charge so much. Never thought you were so tied down to a certain supplier. Insurance being invalidated is something i wouldn't have thought off.
Ha, my insurance, like so many insurances, is really a business, it does not ever want to pay out! I have so many terms and conditions to follow, there are pages and pages! But, this is a good thing, it helps to keep the public safe from treatments that can potentially cause harm. What's most worrying for me is all the untrained 'therapists', that have only done a weeks online course in beauty, can set themselves up without being inspected by the council, without insurance (they would not be able to get it) and without proper training, and somehow treat people and get away with it.
I can understand a lot - except why the training company can supply the ampoules legally!
What is it they have which means they can supply when other companies (including retail and wholesale distributors) don't appear able to?
A piece of paper? A loophole no-one else has found?
That I do not know! I would assume they have registered doctors as part of the company who then access the same supply chains as the NHS and private GP's.
Appreciate you don't know but if a registered doctor is prescribing, doesn't he/she need to know for whom they are prescribing?
Or are they using (abusing!) Patient group directions (PGDs)
Patient group directions (PGDs)
Who can supply and or administer specific medicines to patients without a doctor under a PGD and which medicines can be administered.
gov.uk/government/publicati...
The honest answer is I don't know and was guessing. Maybe because it's a vitamin this makes a difference under the PGD's - I'm not familiar with this so won't pretend to understand. I do know that by keeping it all 'in house' it protects the public as much as possible. Otherwise I could get training from one company and buy my much cheaper supply from Germany or somewhere else, thereby making a much better profit. I would however not be able to get insurance cover thereby putting myself and my client at unnecessary risk.
Whilst this 'supply chain' seems like an abuse I am grateful there are providers outside the NHS that can administer B12. In my husbands case this was a good thing. I guess we all have to make our own decisions on what we feel is acceptable and what establishments we choose to frequent.
Sorry - I'm not meaning to put you on the spot! And I appreciate what you have already explained.
But something in my head is pushing me to understand! And I don't.
No worries at all! My industry comes under question quite a lot and there are some very dodgy practices (unqualified, uninsured members of the public that think they can 'have a go' at providing beauty treatments on the cheap) that undermine my own conscientious practice. On this subject (B12 supplied to beauticians) I clearly do not have all the answers though!
I can only think that an insurance company would not underwrite a policy for a beautician if they thought there was any substantial risk - they do not want to have to pay out, that is not good business for them. They need proof of who you trained with. Surely if they believed there was any unlawfulness in the supply chain (prescribing medication unlawfully) they would not be willing to insure.
It's important to discuss this, pick it apart, shine like on anything that's not right, so I'm more than happy to answer questions but sadly don't know every last detail.
No . Sounds like it's the training company make the high profits! You follow the rules.
Just interesting what they pay for it snd how they avoid thd prescription part ?
The loophole being not for medical use
That's business for you, everyone makes a profit along the way...some more than others!
Yes , but registered doctors can only supply B12 ampoules for injection on prescription for MEDICAL PURPOSES . Not for any other purpose .. And certainly not for a beauty clinic , hairdressers etc . So in that case they would be breaking the law .
I honestly don't know wedgewood, I didn't ask that particular question when I enquired. To be accepted on the course and get the necessary insurance you have to hold an advanced certificate in another treatment that involves piercing the skin. For example electrolysis in the case of a beautician. This means a hairdresser would not be accepted but a private nurse and dentist would. A beautician would not qualify if they did not already hold this advanced qualification.
"I would have to buy the hydroxocobalamin ampules from the training company as it is on prescription"
Who is doing the prescribing and who are they prescribing for?
There is a scam here somewhere. Is the training company also the insurer?
newlandvale They may be the insurance sales agent but I can't see they would be the insurance company. It wouldn't make business sense. If they had an insurance claim to pay out on it would bankrupt them.
helvella wedgewood Nackapan I have asked them about how the prescriptions work and have received a reply.
"Vitamin B12 is a prescription only medication , and it is against the law to administer an inter muscular injection with out having a licensed prescriber, we issue you with a valid prescription for each client each time. Our prescriber is fully licensed and is at hand for all your prescriptions. Our product is fully UK licensed , and batched and recorded with strict storage and distribution handled by our registered doctor."
I feel this is a reasonable explanation - a prescription issued for each client each time. Let's not forget, GP's are financially incentivised to prescribe certain medications too, B12 not being one of them, but that's another topic!
Their reply makes me think perhaps Panorama should do an undercover investigation for TV.
Yes 👍 !!!
Hmmm, is that really a good idea...then the whole B12 from abroad thing could get brought up and risk the supply we rely on for self-injection also coming under scrutiny. It is really worth risking this, I don't think so. Personally I want us to be able to still get B12 from the German pharmacies which currently is at a reasonable cost. Yes, we should have available supplies here in the UK, but that's not the reality. I trust I am getting a genuine product when buying from the German pharmacies. If that supply disappeared (UK authorities ban injectable imports or force it to be prescription only) I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable buying from Joe Bloggs off ebay etc. that slip through the net and may be counterfeit.
Yes , I hadn’t thought of that . You are right . Have to be careful what one wishes for.
Thank you Bertiepuss for your patience in explaining the situation to us .
You're welcome although I feel like I may have stirred up resentment about beauticians offering injections. It kept me awake last night going over it all!
,
I’m sorry that you lost sleep over it all . But you actually did your fellow beauticians a favour . We see now that they are victims of big business .— The training company .
Thank you for your kind comment wedgewood
Ahhh, I wrote a long reply and lost it! Now the slightly shorter version...
I personally don't feel the training company is to blame. They provide an end-to-end service that keeps clients and therapists as safe as possible. They too have to make a profit and pay staff.
Yes, I could save money by buying the ampules directly from Germany and pass that saving onto the client but I'd be breaking the law and putting myself at risk. No good therapist would do that. What if I injected a client who later developed food poisoning but blamed the reaction on the injection and tried to prosecute. I would need proof of every last aspect of that treatment from product sourcing to training etc. Essentially, paying one company, for everything, even at a higher price, buys me peace of mind that I can deliver a legal and safe product and procedure with full traceability and support.
The fault lies with the system we have - restriction/refusal of injections by the NHS and lack of legal provision of B12 in pharmacies for personal use - not any particular company that is filling that gap.
Now off to eat my body weight in chocolate!
The person that does mine works out of a hair salon/nail bar. She rents a room to offer various treatments and was trained at a nurse led asthetics training centre. Until recently she was purchasing the B12 from the centre where she trained at £10 a pop until I pointed out that you can order it abroad from various pharmacies. My son recently purchased some online from Etsy.
If she decides to buy from the abroad pharmacies she will be breaking the law by administering it to the general public. I would hope she'd not risk doing that! She should also read her insurance policy as it will likely have conditions about where she sources materials from ie. they are licenced and prescribed.
Oh my I wasn’t aware of that, I will mention it to her, hopefully she will already be aware of this
If she is a conscientious therapist, I'm sure she is, then she is likely aware. But as regular client of hers it would be kind to mention it to her just in case.
I’m going to mention it to her, last thing I would want is to give her the wrong information and it lead to her breaking the law
Thank you, I'm sure she will be glad of it, I know I would be. To be honest, until I looked into this myself I actually had no idea all that was involved in giving (and selling) B12 injections! It's rather more complicated.
It is indeed
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