What deficiencies could B12 injection cause?

[Sunnysidoop]

Some of you might remember me writing about how, since moving to Pascoe vials from Dr Myhill's multi use vial, I've been experiencing whole of body mini vibrations / electricity / agitation. It's particularly bad in the night and I wake with it.

I had worked out that it's tolerable by reducing injection to 0.6ml EOD. However the agitation is increased so I've been reducing further.

It's Just occured to me that perhaps instead the B12 has caused a deficiency in something else and in fact these symptoms could be a symptom of that.

I'm aware folate and ferritin will decrease with injecting B12. Is there anything else I ought to consider please?

[OldmanD]

Perhaps, maybe, kinda if that makes any sense. . . . . . I'd have faith in the Pascoe although anything can disagree with anyone so who knows. . . . I been using that and Hevert Cyno for several years. . . . It is also put together in Germany where there are pretty good regulations around such things. . . . Ye just cant be Dr such and such there and market a product for this. . . . Anyhow. . . . . B12 done well with me for some time but while it pleased me there was a few symptoms that didnt go away and a couple that may have gotten worse or at least more noticeable. . . . . I did have a few physical symptoms that went away with further attentions so no doubts there. . . . . . I tried oral B6 and B1 which while there is little written about poor absorbsion simply like the B12 orals, sprays my wife bought me B1 and B6 orals did not do anything. . . . . So based on the idea that of something is available there must be a market so must be users I bought 10 packs of both B1 and B6. . . . . I was very cautious with both as I had read some dire claims. . . . . The B6 was first for about a year and as I used it things improved including shakey hands. . . . . My lips finally healed 100% and the last split toe nail is today near to grew out as such. . . . . . My thumb healed with the B12 and had been split since the early 2000s. . . . . My scalp is pretty good after years of scratching. . . . . That is but a few symptoms I had. . . . . I currently use Pascoe B6 but not the whole ampoule and built up to that over about 3 or 4 months. . . . . That is at least 2 to 2 1/2 years ago. . . . . I only use a little b1 once per week so far. . . . . . I suffer at times with a little blurred vision but generally my vision is excellent. . . . . . Google B6 defiency symptoms and similar with B1. . . . . I cannot say it is for everyone but its helped me no end. . . . . . . I know or assume I absorb B9 as my initial tests after loading showed such. . . . . . Just use caution as usual. . . . . B12 is guesswork at best similarly so other B vitamins should maybe be thought about. . . . Really the only problem I have left is my bad chest and we may be getting somewhere with it now but I just dont know where as yet but like the previous anxiety/depression that has been covered by B12 I now doubt the NHS land diagnosis of my chest. . . . . . Until last year I never really had a proper pulmonary clinic examination and they could not understand why I had so many infections and spent near all day with me getting xrays scans and the tests in a glass box. . . . . . They did take blood to look for antibodies problems and I am supposing all is okay as they are so good at calling ye if there are problems . . . . . . I go for a chat with my GP tomorrow about where we may go from here. . . . . . .

[Orchard33 in reply to OldmanD]

You can be ferritin deficient without being anaemic. The serum ferritin count does not necessarily mean you're not deficient, rather like the serum B12 count.

[Sunnysidoop in reply to OldmanD]

Thanks for your input. I have the itchy, and sore, scalp too! I hope you had a productive chat with your GP

[charks]

I think the 'agitation' is a sign you are healing. All those nerves are repairing themselves. Your brain is being overloaded with new signals from them and it translates the experience as agitation. Over time your brain will get used to the new signals.

[Hatwindowwindow4 in reply to charks]

I agree. I had similar symptoms when I took B12 injections.

[Sunnysidoop in reply to Hatwindowwindow4]

How long did you have this symptom for? Dare I ask ...

How do you feel now? Do you feel the B12 has benefitted you?

[Hatwindowwindow4 in reply to Sunnysidoop]

Probably 6-8 weeks of the most severe nerve pain and shaking feeling. I still have debilitating fatigue but that isn’t to do with my b12.

[OldmanD in reply to Sunnysidoop]

My head felt not normal at all especially after each loading injection. . . . .I would ave tried walking for that 15 odd minutes. . . . . I really do think that it is your brain returning to normal and as it has not been normal for a long time everything about it feels alien-ish. . . . . . .Then it becomes the norm if you will

[Sunnysidoop in reply to charks]

Ah yes, that makes sense. It's so tricky to know isn't it. And to know how long it'll continue for.

All I know is I can't cope with the lack of sleep. My GP will prescribe zopiclone or amitriptyline for sleep so I'm hoping this will help and maybe I can continue the b12

[charks in reply to Sunnysidoop]

I don't think you have any choice. If you have PA/B12D you have to take B12 or very bad things happened.

[Sunnysidoop in reply to charks]

Thanks. I don't know if I do, that's the challenge

[OldmanD in reply to Sunnysidoop]

I can but surmise you are in Canada or the US . . . . . I cant see zopiclone being given here for lack of sleep. . . . . Amitriptyline does work but it is an antidepressant. . . . Wifey had it for some time in connection with her pains but stopped it as she could not get up. Zopiclone can quickly become a dependacy problem. . . . . If its your mind that is racing when you should be sleeping I'd be trying 25mg to 50mg of quetiapine which I know is an anti psychotic but at 25mg it is far from the usual 450 to 600mg per day as used for phycosis problems. . . . . . And it is none addictive. . . . . . . However Doctors in Canada would not prescribe it even if I was standing with my old box in my hand. . . . . . Nop. . . .Zopiclone was one they would have you take, . . . . . . Have you tried simple melatonin or is it available to you

[Technoid]

It seems like you've been injecting for a year or more so the possibility of an iron deficiency being masked by insufficient B12 is no longer likely. If you're no longer anaemic (or never were) then there is no special draw on iron reserves beyond the initial 4-5 months it takes for red blood cells to turnover and get replaced with healthy ones which again is only relevant in cases of anemia.

I don't agree either that there is any special additional draw on folate due to B12 injections. Adequate folate is needed for sure as its closely linked to B12 metabolism (as are almost all the other B vitamins to a degree), but it is by no means clear that folate requirements would be increased due to B12 injections.

If you're deficient in either and/or have absorption issues that of course is something to consider and would be relevant regardless of B12 injections.

B12 injections will not, in and of themselves, cause a deficiency of some other vitamin/mineral but obviously paying attention to a healthy diet is paramount and something supplementation cannot replace but should complement.

[Sunnysidoop in reply to Technoid]

Thanks for your input

[ktwing in reply to Technoid]

This is interesting though Technoid , as I SI B12 more or less every other day, and for a while stopped taking any folinic acid (because I ran out and then forgot/thought it wouldn't matter), and then when I tested 6 months ago, I was actually deficient in folate, which I never had been before. I can only think this happened because of my frequent B12 injections, since it was never an issue before? Happy to be corrected if this isn't right, but I have a good folate-rich diet so not sure why it was otherwise

[Technoid in reply to ktwing]

That is interesting. Have you checked your intake with Cronometer? Folinic acid seems to be a very good choice from my research, though quite a bit harder to find.

There are no real studies on the effects of B12 injections EOD or daily so it is a bit of a grey area - although I don't know any biochemical reason why it would increase folate requirements, it is possible there is some mechanism which has not been studied which causes more folate uptake than normal in that rather unusual situation.

However, to my knowledge there are others who inject as regularly as EOD and have no issues meeting folate requirements from diet - but we are all different and may have different absorption issues going on etc.

Unfortunately I doubt we'll see scientific trials and testing with EOD B12 injections with regards to its effect on folate since the necessity for such intensive treatments are not widely accepted. It would be nice to see that to have better information to work with.

[Noelnoel]

Csn I ask, what’s Dr Myhill’s multi-use vial?

[Sunnysidoop in reply to Noelnoel]

Sure. It's a 30ml bottle of hydroxy that you stick a needle into through a rubber seal. It's available on her website. There's a risk of contamination so it's generally not people's first choice of b12

[Noelnoel in reply to Sunnysidoop]

Thank you

[OldmanD in reply to Sunnysidoop]

Yes the website says 30ml but on the 30ml bottle it clearly states 1000mcg ????. . . . . . My maths is not telling me what I want to see . . . . salesatdrmyhill.co.uk/b12--...

[Sunnysidoop in reply to OldmanD]

It's 1000mcg per 1ml

[OldmanD in reply to Sunnysidoop]

Didnt see that . . . . Instructions say the syringe is 0.5ml. . . . . .

[Sunnysidoop in reply to OldmanD]

That's right, she suggests injection 0.5ml at a time. If you translate the Spanish written on the bottle you'll get 1000mcg per 1ml. Or search this group for previous discussions.

[OldmanD in reply to Sunnysidoop]

I would not disagree with less than 1000ug/mcg at a time if you are daily or bi daily . . . . I use about 500 to 600ug per jab daily or bi daily and it seems to work pretty good

I think I'll stick with the german stuff and german to english translations. . . . . Germany has quite good controls in place which we understand surrounding even oral vitamins. . . . . I also like the glass ampoules. .

[Iheartb12]

Idk your history with injections but most of my symptoms got way worse after I started injections, then got better. When I stopped injections for a few weeks after having been on them for 6 months or so because I was sick (kidney stones), my symptoms came back x10 with new ones too. It was a massive setback. Went away a few weeks after I restarted injections.