September 17 2023 11:20 AM EST

[WIZARD6787]

That was the time and place that Wizard6787 first published the hypothesis that those with a diagnosis of B12 deficiency may benefit from more frequent injections rather than higher amounts only.

I came up with that after reading clinical trials, protocols used, and many papers, books, case studies and the personal expression of those on this forum as well as my personal experience.

I utilised many personal trials.

I utilized my ability at critical thinking/questioning and knowledge of fallacious argument.

I also utilized my ability of intuitive intelligence. (The ability to solve a problem without enough information to solve it.) I find the key is to only trust it to decide what I might try.

Most importantly I used imagination.

Although I do not feel it others have said I utilize courage.

As a practical matter I can stay with my protocol amounts and forms and only increase the frequency of injections as a way to test the hypothesis.

[Jillymo]

What I feel to be much needed is a slow release formula to sustain us throughout our day.

[shaws]

I have pernicious anaemia (as did my Mother).

My GP agreed that I can have a B12 injection whenever I felt I needed it. At present I have a monthly jab.

My Mother died due (I believe) to her GP who told her she no longer needed any B12 injections.

Both my sister and myself thought that was 'good' advice but it was NOT as Mother developed stomach cancer that caused her demise.

I feel well and have no symptoms (I also have hypothyroidism) and alopecia.

[Midnight_Voice]

Your thinking here is borne out by any good book on stock control within the production control arena, where the aim is to maximise the availability of stock, and minimise the carry costs.

Order stock infrequently, and each order must be for a large amount of stock, with an initial high carry cost, and an increased exposure to having insufficient stock as it falls to the low level before the next replenishment.

Order smaller amounts more frequently, both these factors are minimised. In stock control, there is an ordering cost associated with this, which has to be taken into account.

So, how does this map onto PA injections? Well, the ‘carry cost’ is the B12 in the first part of the cycle, where you have injected more than you need, and you are consuming it nevertheless without extra benefit. And the ‘insufficient stock’ is as you fall below the midpoint, running low before the next injection.

There’s not much of an ‘ordering cost’ here, but that maps on to the more frequent injections. Which may bring small complications from not using a whole ampoule per dose.

The ideal, as Jillymo opines, is a slow release formula, which would smooth out the peaks and troughs almost completely. And even this has its counterpart in production control, with JIT (just in time) deliveries.

So what you have intuited, WIZARD6787, is absolutely borne out, and is given a strong theoretical and mathematical underpinning, in this apparently disparate discipline; one I have spent my working life in.

[WIZARD6787 in reply to Midnight_Voice]

It's also not on like biological oxygen demand. BOD. If BOD is too low, the biological system will not function at peak performance. If too low, it will not function in a way similar to peak performance of the biological function. There is negligible change to having more oxygen.

I did not intuit it which is a fancy name for guessing.

[WIZARD6787]

I had an idea. What if a lower concentration of cobalamin in solution was more effective.

It would not be known if it was. Guessing the concentration is more about the manufacturing and storage including cost than the effectiveness for the patient. That coupled with the way those in the medical field think and do not think it is reasonable to assume it would not be known.

Visualize the cobalamin entering your blood in the solution of saline. It comes up against your cells and does what it is supposed to do. One of the things that happens is the body protects the cells from absorbing to much B12 or perhaps the cells cannot deal with too much cobalamin at one time and it goes in your urine. In effect your cells are overwhelmed.

Now imagine a more diluted injection which would result in better distribution in the blood and the cells are exposed to the cobalamin more in keeping with how the cells experience cobalamin from food.

Or might be something else that happens entirely. Unknown is like that. 🙂

The only way to try it out would be to mix cobalamin with saline on your own. That is not outside my abilities in part due to the classes I have taken in environmental science although that experience is not necessary. The issue would be a non-sterile environment. That would be much about bacteria which is handleable. There would be no exposure to viruses other than the ones that I or someone that comes into my house has, is airborne or transported by attachment to an object.

I used to date a woman who worked in a lab at a food processing plant. She dated me so she might be crazy enough to give it a go.

Or I could buy an empty multi use vial and do a transfer with a syringe and add a saline solution with a syringe.

The above was just intellectual gymnastics. I find it interesting how the concept ties into my hypothesis.

I am easily bored. Good news is I am easily entertained. 🙂

[MorningMist]

I don’t know about other countries but B12 is available as 500mcg ampoules in Poland. Still a large dose admittedly..

[WIZARD6787 in reply to MorningMist]

500 mcg is .5 mg and unless injected every day is less than the recommended dose if experiencing neurological symptoms of which one is fatigue. For me a very small dose and inadequate.

[MorningMist in reply to WIZARD6787]

True, but I was thinking of your comment ‘those with a diagnosis of B12 deficiency may benefit from more frequent injections rather than higher amounts only.’ And I assumed you intended to inject more than once a day to divide the dose you require. 🙂

[WIZARD6787 in reply to MorningMist]

Thank you for the reply it is appreciated. I am in the process of designing a new trial and am deconstructing what is known, what might be true, what is based only on convention, what is done to meet the convenience of the medical practitioners, errors in my thinking etc.

Self injecting is in a way radical and not a consideration of professionals. It is not as if they would reasonably prescribe anything other than one injection every other day. It would be a logistical nightmare.

As I was going over things it occured to me that maybe more injections in a 24 hour might be more effective. Hence the hypothesis.

I now understand why you replied with the amount available in Poland in a ampule. I only have used multi use vials. 10ml or 30ml.

Sorry for the confusion.

[MorningMist]

Maybe I could try injecting 1ml of Hevert ( = 500mcg) and see if it makes any difference.

[WIZARD6787 in reply to MorningMist]

Possible I have not ever done any reading on that. Let us know if it's effective for you.