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Thought it was liver disease but could it be PA?

DpJ1 profile image
DpJ1
•19 Replies

Hi all🤗 hope you doing well,

I have been very ill for a while now(16 months),- pains ruq, stomach, swelling, eyes pain disstrupted vision,high cholesterol, tinnitus, head fuzz driving me crazy, twitching, massive heart palps blood pressure up all time , muscle aches and cracking joints, mood swings and anxiety ++( and even some very dark thoughts when at its worst).

I originally thought it might be liver related as I was a bit heavy on the lager. I have seen Dr after Dr pretty much all telling me Ive got mentall health issues saw a gastro who diagnosed me with errosive gatritis and told me my other symptoms were me being a hyperchondriac and I should see another gastro because 'I'm a pest' so awaiting another refferal but in this time I have had some very extreme head fuzz can't think straight.l, pain palps and some bad thoughts about just ending it but, then saw a vid online about PA and dismissed it as I had already taken b12 supplements and nothing but the video I saw said if you weren't absorbing B12 it needs to be injection or disbursal oral absorb or spray, so I thought what the hell and bought some pills and spray and tried both took a couple of pills let them disperse in mouth and spray a few times went to sleep and woke up and I don't feel cured but the unbearable head fuzz is bearable my eyes don't feel as painful even heart seems not pounding and have felt better than I have in ages well 16 months to be exact. And was just wandering if anyone else has had similar expierance or advice.

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Nackapan profile image
Nackapan

Did you ever have your levrl of b12 tested ? Folate vit D?

DpJ1 profile image
DpJ1 in reply to Nackapan

Hi nacapan thanks for response,

No just had blood counts -high cholesterol, high white counts neuts mainly, high CRP. With constant tachycardia and h BP. Had stool sample 375 caloprectin. Had a private autoimmune mostly the same apart from slightly raised antismooth muscle and albumin.

Nackapan profile image
Nackapan in reply to DpJ1

Although you've had b12 i think still worth getting levels checked . If b12 helps then that's great.

I've a few of the above. Also had high inflammatory markers at the start.

Very low vit d . Thoses results mean many things though ax so much overlaps. I Hope you get answers soon.

T c

DpJ1 profile image
DpJ1

Thanks👍, me tooGoing to look into getting vit b and d testing I just can't believe how bad I felt for that time and then for last couple of days how much less the brain fog fuzz has lessened I can think clear again🤯.

Hope this finds you well

T c

Hamayeshguy profile image
Hamayeshguy

In my case I think I have experienced RBC macrocytosis ( megaloblastic red blood cells) but no doctor told me what's wrong and what I to do. I had many symptoms dizziness , double vision, blurred vision, nausea, tinnitus, shortness of breath and muscle weakness, umbilical hernia and severly muscle weakness in stomach. In that time I remembered my b12 was low in 2013 and asked doctor to inject B12 after of three times injection my doctor tested B12 and stopped injection. Fir six month I took B12 pills sublingual and timed release. It didn't work that much and then started to inject but after 20 injection I found my symptoms got worsened and I can't even walk. Then I found in low B12 after injection actually all of the damaged nerves signal gets disrupted in order get them repaired but repair required special diet and some exercise along with patience. Keto diet works well since no sugar and less carbo along with lots if fat( saturated and non saturated fat) is required for repair process but should be cautious with constipation son I don't eat cheese either and no caffeine drinks. Still I have lots of neuropathy and due to some issues like some exams and so on I can't inject more than two or three a month and waiting for next year to get back full injection but I don't think I get back to normal soon. I don't think my deficiency is pernicious anemia but highly related to long term continuous stressful life away from home. This injection has lots of temporary side effects and requires some one else help. So I have go back home first and start over. My mist problem us my eyes blurred and double vision. And stomach muscles severe fatigue. Didn't have any other problem and still I don't know dies injection really fix all if my preblems?

Hil101 profile image
Hil101

Sorry to hear that you’ve been having a miserable time. I also got diagnosed with autoimmune gastritis, almost a year ago, and the consultant just said that I might have B12 issues but no follow-through. They just want me to take corticosteroids to mask the symptoms. I already had coeliac disease (extremely sensitive to trace gluten) and microscopic colitis. I did my own research as I’d been having palpitations and irregular heart beat, brain fog and feelings of not having any energy. Oral B12 helped a tiny bit but I started paying for injections and it was life-changing. I have now acquired the kit for self injecting and a friend will teach me. I’m afraid I’ve always found gastro consultants to be arrogant people who don’t care much and what was said to you is disgraceful. You may want to try paying for a B12 injection or two if you can afford it (google it: they should be injecting hydroxycobalamin). There’s also the idea of getting tested for B12 levels first but you may have high serum B12 if you’ve been supplementing and GPs just don’t seem to understand that this does not mean B12 is necessarily ok. Good luck

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny

Hi,

A few B12 links that might be of interest....

Symptoms of B12 Deficiency

pernicious-anaemia-society....

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/signs-an...

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

Risk Factors for PA and B12 Deficiency

pernicious-anaemia-society....

b12deficiency.info/what-are...

b12deficiency.info/who-is-a...

Two useful B12 books

"What You Need to Know About Pernicious Anaemia and B12 Deficiency" by Martyn Hooper

Martyn Hooper is the chair of PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society).

"Could it Be B12?: An Epidemic of Misdiagnoses" by Sally Pacholok and JJ. Stuart (USA authors)

Very comprehensive with lots of case studies.

PAS (Pernicious Anaemia Society)

Based in Wales, UK.

pernicious-anaemia-society....

There is a helpline number that PAS members can ring and an online contact form for overseas members.

PA tests

Intrinsic Factor Antibody (IFA) test

labtestsonline.org/tests/in...

Parietal Cell Antibody (PCA) test

labtestsonline.org/tests/pa...

PCA is not recommended as a diagnostic test for PA in UK.

It is still possible to have PA with a negative result in IFA or PCA test.

About 50% of people with PA test negative on IFA test.

About 10% of people with PA test negative on PCA test.

Gastrin test

labtestsonline.org.uk/tests...

B12 Deficiency Info website

b12deficiency.info/

B12 Awareness (US website)

b12awareness.org/

Stichting B12 Tekort (Dutch website with English articles)

stichtingb12tekort.nl/weten...

B12 article from Mayo Clinic in US

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

Table 1 in above article is about frequent misconceptions about B12 deficiency that health professionals may have.

I am not medically trained.

Curlygal profile image
Curlygal in reply to Sleepybunny

Thanks for posting the latter article, it is very thorough and dispels many of the B12 myths.

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply to Curlygal

Here's a couple more that might help to dispel some misconceptions about B12 deficiency

From Dutch B12 website so units, ref ranges, treatment patterns may vary from UK.

stichtingb12tekort.nl/engli...

stichtingb12tekort.nl/engli...

Curlygal profile image
Curlygal in reply to Sleepybunny

Thanks Sleepybunny

DpJ1 profile image
DpJ1

Thank you for your advice, and will certainly give links a read and look into trying a b12 injection but as far as I'm aware you can only get these if you have doctors referral or blood tests proving have a condition linked to b12 or folate difficancy,not sure ( advise please) And today after two days of relief and continue with b complex spray feel head fuzz headace tinnitus a bit up.

DpJ1 profile image
DpJ1

And as for the gastro consultant comment in my limited experience I think your right especially the arrogant part, a very rough 60 sec ish gastroscopy after he said whatt he said and then he walked out of room after pulling tube out , nurses didn't know what was happening then nurse come back said Dr has left and I'm going to haveto take you through what was found and you will need another refferal.I would have complained but with everything going on and just wanting a diagnosis and to feel better don't want to complicate my case even more.

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply to DpJ1

Might be helpful to say what country you are in as this could help people to post the most relevant info.

Patterns of treatment for B12 deficiency vary from country to country and type of B12 used can vary.

DpJ1 profile image
DpJ1

Hi sleepbunny, I'm in UK have read a few of the links you posted some very interesting points especially the last one about the myths and mis believes of medical community to acknowledge or consider b12, Folate, could be a problem or depend on serum levels to diagnose. Makes me worry about trying to talk to my Dr or when I might get this second refferal weather this possibility will be dismissed out of hand. Have tried looking for paying for injection from another post, closest I can find is superdrug test for b12 and folate by mail and if they find a serum difficant they could then offer a b12 injection. Would be great just to get one or two to see if made a difference at this point with proplems and symps would try anything but b12 injection seems harmless even if someone or myself didn't have a serum difficiancy.

Thanks again

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply to DpJ1

Hi again,

Unhappy with Treatment (UK info)?

Letters to GPs about B12 deficiency

b12deficiency.info/b12-writ...

Point 5 in above link is about being symptomatic for B12 deficiency with an in range serum b12 result.

Link above has letter templates that people can base their own letters on.

Letters avoid face to face confrontation with GP and allow patient time to express their concerns effectively.

Best to keep letters as brief, to the point and polite as possible. It's harder to ignore a letter in my opinion.

Keep copies of any letters sent or received.

UK guidelines indicate that patients who are symptomatic for B12 deficiency should be treated even if serum B12 is within range.

UK B12 documents

BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines

b-s-h.org.uk/guidelines/gui...

Summary of above document

pernicious-anaemia-society....

Diagnostic flowchart from BSH Cobalamin and Folate Guidelines which mentions Antibody Negative PA.

stichtingb12tekort.nl/engli...

BMJ B12 article

bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g5226

Emphasises need to treat patients who are symptomatic for B12 deficiency even if their B12 level is within range.

Low dose cyanocobalamin tablets are sometimes used to treat B12 deficiency caused by diet.

BNF Cyanocobalamin

bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/cyanoc...

BNF Hydroxycobalamin

bnf.nice.org.uk/drug/hydrox...

NICE CKS B12 deficiency and Folate deficiency

cks.nice.org.uk/anaemia-b12...

cks.nice.org.uk/topics/anae...

Links below are to forum threads where I left some more detailed replies with lots of B12 info which you may find useful eg more about causes of b12 deficiency, B12 books, B12 websites, B12 articles and a few hints on dealing with unhelpful GPs.

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/po...

I am not medically trained just someone who suffered with unrecognised B12 deficiency for years.

DpJ1 profile image
DpJ1

Thanks sleepbunny, Will look through, but have my mind set to try and ask Dr on Monday if given my symptoms neurologic and physical and that I have after 16 months dirrhia after antibs (16months ago),been given diagnosis of stomach and dudenum inflammation errosive gastroenteritis , if he would just start me on injections just to be safe or even if it works if so the reasons why can be sorted latter with gastro, but I really don't hold out much hope just keeping everything crossed, but given how liite interest Drs have had just giving me meds proparnol (heart rate), diazapam(nerve pain 'traped nerves possibly'), that work for days but then back to square one or worse and come off them.

Just hope with some of the info I have gathered he might do it just at the end of my tether with it all. Symps today after a bit more supplementing a little better then yesterday so hope hope hope🤞🤞.

Hope you doing well

T c

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny

Hi,

"but have my mind set to try and ask Dr on Monday"

You could follow up your Monday appointment with a letter to GP if not happy.

I feel that letters are harder for GPs to ignore as GP surgery is supposed to file letters to GP with medical notes.

See letter writing link in my other reply.

Good luck.

DpJ1 profile image
DpJ1

Thanks sleepbunny will see what is said tomorrow then maybe write a letter read what was said in info you sent just to keep it simple and quote the guidelines just got to a point where thinking of waiting for weeks / months? like I am for letters to be responded to is very difficult.TC

Sleepybunny profile image
Sleepybunny in reply to DpJ1

I hope your appointment with GP went well.

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