Just a curiosity question.

Someone said you can only absorb 10mcg if b12 from 1000mg is there any point if you can absirb it normally in taking more that that and is that 10mcg enough to have ..also if there's a limit to how mucb one can absorb would high levels of stress run you out of your stores at a rate higher than what your body cab take in? Do does stress reduction impact b12 levels rising better? Just rationalising an excuse to take it easy I think ...also does anyone know if sprays will help the bacteria in the gut or it won't get to them? Thanks

[helvella]

Quite often, for people who can absorb B12 adequately but for some reason (e.g. having a diet low in B12) end up low in B12, a 50 microgram dose is often used.

I've always taken the view that large a dose will ensure that the limit is how much the person can absorb, not how much is available. Being generous, as in taking 50 rather than the 10 micrograms likely to be absorbed, simply helps to assure that.

We see a wide range of specific B12 amounts that might be needed - for adults, children, men, women, older, younger, etc. And, as ever, we are all individuals. But all tend to be below 5 micrograms actually absorbed per day. Absorbing 10 micrograms a day seems almost certainly enough for the vast majority.

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

So regardless of how you get it if you knly get 5..10 MCG a day if you use all that up in stress could you be fighting a losing battle? Would ITramuscular mean you'd absorb much more and can your body actually do anything with the extra? I'm just wondering would if on the other end of things conserving b12 is useful. It seems a very small amount that we can absorb so if I'm using it up I can never replace what's lost but if I don't use it up then am I helping the stores rebuild? Is there some marker which shows stores? I had iron and b12 done but had tsken supplements and its only the serum they tested so I still feel my stores of iron and possibly b12 may take a while to recover. From looking at my diet I have chronicle not been getting enough of loads of nutrients so although I'm glad my serum is OK I think that's the last place you see the effect of the depletion. So I'm not really happy with the tests altogether and erring on the side of getting a little extra than I need . I'm not sure what depeletes b12 apart from stress which depletes So many either things as well. I will look about and see if there's any studies on stress and b12.

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

It doesn't help that when I look it up one place says the liver stores it another says it can't be stored??? Gah!

[Hidden in reply to helvella]

I give up every second result says the opposite of the one before. I'm gonna just assume that I should not let myself get stressed since I won't be able to absorb enough to catch up if I do. And doesn't seem to be any point taking more than 1000 which is what my spray has. When people get the injection do they also only have the ability to absorb 10mcg or can they absorb it more... I should never google anything it always just ends with completely disparate answers and being more confused than when I started.

[Nackapan in reply to Hidden]

Your Liver does store b12 . If you havent an absorbtion promblem or PA the liver cdn store b12 nd it's released when needed. My b12 store decreased gradually over about 3 years

I wasn't absorbing it from my food.(j now realise)

Even if my liver has stores now j csnt utilise it . Thd process needed is broken.

B12 injections bring up levels quickly and your body uses it from whars circulating in your blood stream.

Levels have to be kept high to be able to do this.

I think stress eats b12.

I often feel my body just isn't getting the right stuff through to function properly.

I Hope that very simple explanation helps you.

Its advised to take 2 or 3 oral doses of oral b12 throughout the day.

You mat well absorb more than 1% j think thars the rate for passive absorbtion.

[Hidden in reply to Nackapan]

Thanks that makes sense why they Said it stores and doesnt store on different sites.. I think I will just take one soray besuse last time I took more I had side effects like weird buzzing legs and heavy tired feeling. So this time I will just go slowly. My tinnitus is so improved already on day three I can't believe it! It is making me feel so positive that even other things will get better too.

[fbirder]

No, stress does not increase the body's requirements of B12.

If you do not have an absorption problem then you can absorb about 10 mcg at a time. That should be plenty for most people.

If you're recovering from a temporary deficiency (dietary, caused by abuse of nitrous oxide, etc.) then you may want to boost your levels quickly. In that case taking three oral doses of B12 a day should give you about 10 times the recommended daily amount. That should soon boost your levels.

If you can absorb oral B12 then 3 oral doses of 50 mcg a day should get more B12 into your body than having a 1000 mcg injection once a month.

[Nackapan in reply to fbirder]

No, I wasn't clear. If stressed I'm more symptomatic . I dont have more b12 .

I just can do even less ,as for me stress takes alot of energy so i get more fatigued.

So perhaps for me

stress eats energy

And I feel my injection not benefitting me for as long.??

[Hidden in reply to Nackapan]

Yes stress depeletes b12 and b12 being depleted causes you to be less able to cope with stress. That's why I'm thinking if stress uses up b12 and you can only put so much back in then part of the equation must be to avoid stress. Like if you put petrol into a car but can only put 1 liter into the cat every day then if you keep driving around you'll always be in deficit. And if you stop driving around you might have a chance to rebuild stores because you would be putting a liter in every day and not driving and using it up every day so at the end you might have ten liters and could go on a decent trip without ending up on the side of the road waiting for tomorrows liter to go a tint bit more. And since everyone seems stressed these days and everyone seems depleted there will be no way of ever catching up when the body can't take more petrol in because it can't change the size of its tank but we could stop driving it beyond its capacity. That was my thinking. Someone said you don't store it and someone said you do but there definitely seems to be consensus that theres a limited capacity tk absorb and use it ... So my logic was to fill the tank and not drive around so much until the reserves are full. With might take six months or a year.

[fbirder in reply to Hidden]

"Yes stress depeletes b12"

How?

[Hidden in reply to fbirder]

What do you mean how? I don't know exactly how ...some long complicated processes of exchanging molecules and enzyme reactions and what not like how you digest your food or how your heart beats or how you bones grow. If you want to know how b12 works in the body in that sense you'd have to look it up cos I wouldn't know the technicalities of how it does it. Its enough for me to know that it does. Just like I only need to know calories give energy and the cells mitochondria does some complicated Krebs cycle and voila I can move my fingers. And I know excersise depletes energy and I can only fit so much energy into my stomach so I know not to run 70k on a small breakfast. I don't know how any of the molecular processes are actually doing what they are doing. I've got enough just figuring out the basics ...

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Storess depletes pretty much everything. stress is a bodies overdrive. It uses up things pisses things out drags things out of bones stops repair stops giving oxegen to organs ...its like the turbo button on your hoover. If you leave the turbo button on all the time the engine overheats and your hoover breaks. So if it was anything like water say... You get dehydrated you can't keep running the marathon if you can only take tiny sips of water. You have to stop the marathon and take sips. Cos your body can't make up for the deficit by just slugging a whole bottle down in one go. ...and if you keep running in the hot sun with the tiny capacity to take in the thing you lack that just seems like your running up a down escalator. So I'm curios about that. I didn't think I was speaking alien but sometimes it seems that way.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

And another thing I wonder about is if taking b12 masks other deficiencies which people may have. I know that I also had magnesium deficiency and someone had mentioned that one of the other b vitamins is nessisary for b12 to function... So wonder if taking a large amount of b12 your body couldn't use it if it disnt have all the other bits and bobs it interacts with along the way. And whether people get tested for those things or take supplements or if the b12 overload can mask an underlying deficiency which then never gets adressed. It seems like only a certain percentage of people have a lack of intrinsic factor but a lot of people have b12 issues despite having a ton of b12 in their system and ive not read much about the other things b12 needs to function. And since nothing works alone... So I wonder about that... And other things that maybe other people have wondered about and know about. Which would save me having to sift through the minefeild of the internet to quell my curiosity. But as yet I've not wondered how exactly it functions. I'm more concerned with the way it affects you and the way stress or other factors affect its depletion than how it does what it does.

[fbirder in reply to Hidden]

The problem is that there are well documented mechanisms for how B12 works in the body. There full explanations for how running 70k will use up energy.

But there is no reason to believe that B12 can be used up faster or slower by you changing what you're doing. It is a catalyst. It is not used up in any of the reactions it is involved in.

[Clare184 in reply to fbirder]

I have stumbled across a few studies in the past that linked stress to b12 depleting faster, I have just tried a quick Google and couldn't find any to post unfortunately. Did find an article which said the following which may explain a bit:

a lot of vitamin B12 is used up for producing neurotransmitters and hormones due to the constantly circling thoughts and strong feelings. The production of hormones like serotonin, adrenalin, and noradrenalin, in particular, significantly increases vitamin B12 consumption.

I definitely feel my jabs don't last as long when I'm particularly stressed and it does create a viscous circle as the lack of b12 raises anxiety, fatigue etc

[fbirder in reply to Clare184]

"The production of hormones like serotonin, adrenalin, and noradrenalin, in particular, significantly increases vitamin B12 consumption."

Sorry, but that is nonsensical. B12 maybe involved in the formation of those chemicals, but it is not used up in the formation of them.

[Hidden in reply to fbirder]

Do you have a link for that info? It makes perfect sense to me. If b12 is engaged making neurotransmitters which are essential then it can't be engaged in healing your nerves or making blood or vice versa evenfit is recycled in the process of making neurotransmitters and comes back out available on the other side it is still busy. I mean when I eat meat and get b12 from it..I'm not eating the serum level of free b12 the animal has (unless having black pudding) I'm eating the b12 that is engaged in an activity in the flesh. If it is engaged in one process it can't be available for another until it is finished and if it has donated or been changes during that process oxodised or lost a carboxyl or whatever then it will be damaged ..maybe its rebuilt but presumable that also takes a toll. I mean if I have eggs and I make a lot of cakes with it because I'm stressed out I can't also make an omelette with it to feed my kids. And if I can only get a dozen eggs from my chickens and am limited in that way and I'm constantly making cakes then I won't have any eggs to make breakfast. And if they start to suffer I need to prioritize where my eggs are going. You cant force the chickens to lay more eggs. You can't stop making blood or nerves but you can stop making neurotransmitters associated with stress. And it seems that when you have b12 deficiency that even lowers your ability to utilize it. Stress rarely improves anything except temporarily. And if we were in the wild stress could help us to get that hunt in when we really need it...so it also seems logical that the body when starving, prioritizes things like stress hormones in order to get you out running after a mammoths liver... If it just prioritized blood and nerves you might not get that rush of adrenaline that gets you up and out and hunting ... A lot of depleted vitamins will leave repairs of structural components in favour of immediate things like hormones neurotransmitters because not much use having no stress feeling relaxed sitting there when you need to be up and out and hunting down the b12 you need. I mean its just a curiosity if you have something which says b12 isn't used up or locked up in the process of making neurotransmitters I'd be curios to see it. But without evidence it makes sense on the surface.

[Hidden in reply to Clare184]

Awesome thanks for that. I couldn't find anything either ...I sometimes come across things without looking but then when I try to google it maybe I use a different phrase or just the results are gone down the line ...I lost an amazing rendition of the red wedding song because when I googled it first there was about three covers ..when I looked about a year later there were 3000 results! That's the problem with an infinite library.

[Hidden in reply to Clare184]

Ooh this was a nice one I just found. Very interesting and mentions the b vitamin it works with whcib I've forgotten although just read it two seconds ago. My Brian is a seive. I call him Brian because one day I literally could say the word brain about six times in a row it just kept coming out as Brian... Lol. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2...

[charks in reply to Hidden]

You have exactly the same symptoms as me. The bad spelling and problems sometimes pronouncing things. I call it my stupid brain. It means that I am low on B12. I take sublingual B12 so I can just 'top up' and hey presto within 30 minutes I can spell perfectly. And pronounce things perfectly as well. I think my IQ goes up by at least 10 points.

[Hidden in reply to charks]

Wow that's very fast. I cant say I had that from the b12 spray. But the magnesium helped my brain a lot. That sorted my heart arythmia that very night I took it...and over the last few weeks ..well I remembered the lyrics for isn't it ironic just walking down the road and I had all these other memories about my life come to mind. Whereas before I was staring at the wall going completely blank... Not even anything just a feeling of trying without even grasping the thought "I have forgotten" just nothing. Like brain blindness. Its such a good feeling when it comes back isn't it. Isn't it ironic? Lol! That's probably why I am so curiose right now. I can't remember being curios for a long time. Must be my brian getting his sh1t together.

[charks in reply to Hidden]

Yes. I'm still in the early stages. I only changed to sublingual B12 3 weeks ago. Within 12 hours I felt fantastic. And I still feel fantastic. Unfortunately members on this forum who have experienced something similar say the effects don't last. But I'm enjoying while I can. I feel so happy. My partner is jealous. Maybe it's pay back for all those years of misery.

[Hidden]

It looks like so many deficiencies cause so many similar symptoms. Muscle weakness tiredness heart arythmias anxiety depression cramps brain fog. And all of them seem to be vital. Some estimates say 40% of people are nutrient deficient. How important getting all of these are and also how testing the blood seems to be the very last place that a deficiency shows up makes it very hard to know when we have one at all! Having one vitamin be in a good range but lacking another means it can't do its job because every single one relies on the presence of so many others along long complex chains of reactions in the body. I've thought I had addressed one issue only to find there's another issue and then another that all had similar symptoms. Bodies just donr seem able to function without all of these all the time and some people need more than the average of one or another thing. I'm going to start monitoring my kids diets asap to see what they are missing.