Not an easy write.... (bowels affected by b12)

[Ljbillo]

Hey guys sorry for the subject but my doctors seem clueless as usual....

has everyone's bowels been affected with having pernicious anemia?

I've always had ibs... but last couple of months I feel like I have no life.. I'm a young(32) to me haha female outgoing.. but i have chronic constipation then every now and again a serious bowt of diarrhoea from nowhere.

As of lately I've noticed if I have a bottle of wine or so the next morning I'm woken with serious stomach cramps and diarrhoea, but last few weeks within a couple of hours of a few glasses of alcohol I'm crippled in pain and needing the...

Has anyone else suffered with this? Could it be due to my pernicious anaemia or something else? Xx

[Gambit62 Administrator]

Pernicious anaemia is an autoimmune gastritis that attacks the mechanism that the body uses to absorb B12 in the ileum so all of us will have some gastric symptoms.

Alcohol isn't something that is specifically known to interact with with B12 though some of us do find that alcohol consumption seems to affect how well efficiently we seem to use B12.

This article discusses the links between alcohol and inflamatory gastric problems including IBD

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

if you are finding that alcohol is leading to bouts of IBD then I'd suggest that you avoid it.

[Ljbillo in reply to Gambit62]

Thank you.. I will have a read.. it's become very apparent lately that alcohol seems to be the main cause, so I will avoid it. I just wanted to see if anyone else was experiencing the same thing x

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Ljbillo]

we are all different so there may be some on here who have experienced the same problem though I have to admit that my first thought on reading your post was whether you had been checked for crohn's disease as I know from friends that alcohol and crohn's definitely don't go together.

[Ljbillo in reply to Gambit62]

I haven't thought about looking into chrons but everything is worth checking and ruling out, especially how bad things seems to have gotten lately.

[Gambit62 Administrator in reply to Ljbillo]

Just realised that although I don't generally have gastric problems brought on by alcohol I do have definite problems with cider but that seems related to the fact that it is made with apple juice as anything made with apple juice causes the same issues ... but strangely I don't have problems with eating apples. Gut responses to food can be very personal.

[deniseinmilden in reply to Gambit62]

Could it be due to the yeasts which ferment the apples into cider? They would be present in the juice in higher concentrations than you would get from an apple, particularly if you are used to washing, "polishing" or peeling them before you eat them.

I'm OK with apples and juice but my father and I used to get a phenomenal reaction to cider, compared to other alcoholic drinks. Occasionally a real ale will cause a similar reaction and this could also be due to "wild", environmental yeasts.

Re the gastritis - I wonder if the problems we have are also a little "chicken and egg" where each begats the other and its hard to know what came first - other than an immune system break down being the cause of everything!

[pitney]

Despite testing negative for Celiac disease I have gone gluten free after years of unexplained bowel problems and am thrilled that things have improved greatly I had got to the stage where going anywhere was difficult but now feel able to get out and about again (as and when the virus rules allow us too)

Good luck and best wishes

[Ljbillo in reply to pitney]

Yes I feel the same as you felt, pretty scared to go out and lead a normal life due to my bowels. But as of lately they have gotten so bad, I've always had a little drink here and there with no problems but I'm starting to see a huge pattern after any consuming any alcohol that I get sudden onset of cramping and diarrhoea. So alcohol is definitely going to have to stop.

[Nackapan in reply to pitney]

My daughter was the same.

Constipation bloating pain digestion problems.

She is now alcohol free gluten free diary free and strangely cannot tolerate apples but can tolerate berries. I'm more reliant on frequency if food and timing. With fatigue I simply cant digest beyond 5-6pm. I have my main meal at lunch time and last smaller meal at 5pm.

She used to eat everything and love food.

Its given such huge improvrments but is a very restrictive diet . She tries to build on it introducing one thing at a time.

I used like a glass of wine . Have recently thought perhaps I will again.

Havent had a drop since Sept. 2018.

I know I'm improving if I can have a little wine and walk more than 1/2 a mile and get on my bike. Akso a little tv would be nice.

So Ljbillo I would stop alcohol for a while and write down a food diary. Tedious but might help you.

Also iron supplements can do this even in a multivit.

[pitney in reply to Nackapan]

I had a G&T and half a glass of wine in the whole of last year and thought all my Christmas"s had come at once as I had not had a drop for years, this year im doing better I have had 2 G&Ts and there is still 5 months to go Whoopie

[fbirder]

I would check out a low FODMAP diet. FODMAPs are fermentable carbohydrates and almost everybody is sensitive to them to some extent. Some of the sweetners used in foods are polyols (the P in FODMAP) and are well known for having drastic effects on people's guts (read the reviews of sugar-free gummy bears for details - amazon.com/Haribo-SUGAR-Cla... )

But for some people almost all FODMAPs can cause IBS-like symptoms - monashfodmap.com/about-fodm...

Most people with non-coeliac gluten sensitivity actually are sensitive to FODMAPs, it just so happens that a lot of gluten-free foods are also low in FODMAPs. So going gluten-free also eliminates FODMAPs. newscientist.com/article/21...

I, personally, get IBS-like symptoms if I eat foods containing fructose or fructans. And the symptoms are very much like those of gluten sensitivity - draxe.com/nutrition/fructan...

[Nackapan in reply to fbirder]

Yes my daughter cant tolerate fructose

Fodmap took her a long time

Well worth the effort though if you suffering .

She re introduces things to test one at a time over 2 days. Sone fidmaus actually make her si poorly shes in bed sleeping uncomfortably for hours. Rice did that??

Some foods can be tolerated in small quantities too.

[fbirder in reply to Nackapan]

Yes, I'm still experimenting. And you're so right about quantities. I like mushrooms and was pleased to find they didn't affect me. Until I went to lunch at a friend's and she made mushroom soup - which was really just concentrated mushroom. Wow, that was a restless night.

[Nackapan in reply to fbirder]

Yes my daughter finds it almost impossible to eat out .

Some pizza planes do gluten free bases and you choose the topping . That works.

I tend to stick to making 'safe' meals so she can relax and eat with confidence !

Almond milk and avocados chicken breast have always been okay.i also make bone plain chicken stock as s9 good for you. Onions a no no for het too. Fodmap certainly s good way.

Even the dark chicken meat on a thigh she loves she can only tolerate a very small amount. Must be the fat higher.

Hope your experiments pay off for you and tiy find a new way of eating.

[fbirder in reply to Nackapan]

I can handle a small amount of onions. At home we've got the portion size just right, so I can eat a home-made curry with just a small problem the next morning.

Eating out is a real pain. Fish and chips I can handle. Most beer isn't good for me, which is a real shame as I love the stuff. But it's G&Ts from now on.

[Budsa in reply to fbirder]

Thanks for this fbirder, I have terrible stomach cramp from laughing so much while reading some of the 1* reviews for sugar free gummy bears that you linked to. The review by a lady called Nicole, titled "Diarrhea while driving" was one of the funniest reviews I have ever read.

[Alfabeta]

Hi

My doctor closed the surgery immediately and ceased my injections giving me tablets instead. Within four weeks I had chronic IBS symptoms. I must admit I consume most of the red alert food stuffs as I am vegan/vegetarian and I never knew that so many ‘healthy’ foods were really difficult for the body to digest.

My doctor refused to accept that it had anything to do with the stopping of the injections, sent me for a blood test for multiple things then told me my b12 level was 956 - 156 above the top level and told me to cease all supplementation for 3 months after which my b12 level will be tested.

He sent me for an endoscopy as well even though he had previously recommended me for one for the same events about 7 years previously which preceded my diagnosis of b12 deficiency.

I managed to talk the specialist out of the endoscopy and have just had an mri scan instead. I now await the findings.

My symptoms were massive build up of gas with the small intestine blowing up like a small balloon lower abdomen chronic pain due to gas and intermittent constipation, light headed ness and back pain.

Every symptom I had was for IBS - no other gastric symptoms fitted unless I have non alcoholic fatty liver disease the causes of which do not fit my lifestyle and gallbladder problems short of blockage as I am neither yellow nor green.

I if you felt like me for the last 14 weeks, I truly sympathise with you.

O, by the way, my peripheral neuropathy has returned - tingling all over .

[fbirder in reply to Alfabeta]

A shame you passed on the gastroscopy (assuming it was that end) as it may have given you excellent evidence for having PA. An examination of your stomach would show if you had gastric atrophy. Examination of biopsy samples would show if there was metaplasia. Metaplastic Gastric Atrophy is a good indicator of PA. In combination with gastric parietal cell antibodies,plus raised levels of gastrin it means Autoimmune Metaplastic Gastric Atrophy - the base cause of PA and near proof that you cannot absorb oral B12.

[Alfabeta in reply to fbirder]

Yes, but would they look for that? I had an gastroscope 7 years ago just prior to my low b12 diagnosis which came from a blood test. I have never been diagnosed with PA so if they did the tests that you indicate they certainly didn’t show anything was amiss.

Thank you for your the information as I am collecting evidence.

Personally, I’m not convinced that I do have PA. I was on a virtual vegan diet and knew nothing about b12 including the complete lack of it in vegetables and fruit and my doctor put me on 10mg daily omaprezole on a recurring prescription which I took for three years before unilaterally ending them. This combination given that I must have been running pretty low on b12 anyway was the catalyst for extreme deficiency.

I had symptoms that no-one really recognised such as auditory hallucinations along with a range of symptoms common to b12d but a much wider range than most people on here describe the majority of whom describe a narrow range of symptoms.

It is unfortunate that my doctor ceased the injections as I had just gone 28 weeks without any symptoms for the first time in 6 years. However, the next blood test should confirm if I am able to absorb b12. I have continued with my daily multivitamin and I am ensuring that I get just about the daily level from foods fortified with b12 plus Emmental cheese which provides around 30% of ones daily requirements per ounce.

Thank for taking time to share your vast experience.

Stay well.

[Nackapan in reply to Alfabeta]

Try avoiding high fibre foods for a period to see if it helps??

[Alfabeta in reply to Nackapan]

Thanks. I’ve avoided all brassicas (I love broccoli and asparagus🥦) peel my apples, avoiding bread - I’ve taken out the whole list of foods on the NHS IBS site and my problems have largely ceased. Just reintroducing the foods now but in much smaller amounts and chew, chew, chewing so much.

I think I might have injured my right side digestive system small intestine/colon as I feel quite bruised there and still have a little bloating.

[Nackapan in reply to Alfabeta]

Probiotics help some to heal their gut too

Steaming to very well cooked?

Smoothies good too to help digestion veg and fruit

Hope you feeling better soon.

[Hidden]

Hi, I think the cause of my B12 deficiency is my microscopic colitis which can only be diagnosed with biopsy during colonoscopy/gastroscopy. I've suffered from constipation since childhood though. I take Movicol on prescription as my bladder becomes overactive too if I don't (pressure from the bowel?) . It is interesting though to me that all 4 of my children are either deficient in B12 or low/normal levels. My daughter is currently being tested (CT/MRI) for suspected brain cancer due to severe neurological symptoms. I suspect even though her blood serum levels are low/normal (260), not enough B12 is getting into her cells, same for my Son who is in the Army and diagnosed with low mood. It scares me how much ignorance and closed mindedness there is in the medical profession regarding B12 deficiency. There's so much to learn but very few seem open to wanting to learn and understand what a devastating effect a deficiency in this Vitamin can have 😩

[lifegems]

I’m guessing avoiding alcohol for the rest of your life might feel a bit depressing? If not then that’s good but I know I would be.. ive been taking kefir .. the organic bio kefir not the flavoured supermarket stuff.. take on an empty stomach .. it really helps me. I think if you know your going to have a drink make sure you eat first to at least line your stomach. White wine is very acidic so I don’t react well and prefer red wine. I guess moderation is the key ! 😉

[RoseFlowerDew]

Hi

I don’t know if this will help but I read something recently that not only can the stomach be affected but also the small intestine can become smooth. I don’t recall where I read it but it made sense at the time. I definitely experience issues both with incontinence (due to under treatment of the neurological symptoms) and loose bowels.